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fishnbeer
09-22-2012, 7:30 PM
i recently sold one of my bolt guns, and now have an empty spot in the safe. i have been doing some reading on AKs and have a general idea of what i would like to start piecing together. what i get stuck on is there are so many variations per country not sure if it will all go the way i like and be legal.

basically, wanting one in 7.62x39, stamped receiver w/side folder skeleton stock, and a medium to full length barrel

so the questions...
-in terms of the OAL, does a side folder stock make you have to have a longer barrel (cuz it is shorter when folded)?
-what parts kit should i get for a side folder? i know AMD65 and khyber pass are kind of what i am looking for
-really like the look of ACE skeleton stock, will it mount to any side-folding receiver?
-what receiver ? hungarian? romanian?

bloodhawke83
09-22-2012, 7:51 PM
I got a 20" barrel, let me check the OAL. Its a converted Saiga 20" barrel.

with a 20" + brake, its 31.5" from the front tip to back of the receiver. You can do it with a 20" barrel.

baih777
09-22-2012, 7:59 PM
Look at the AKBuilder parts kit. The barrel is already setup. But the AMD 65 will require a longer muzzle brake welded on if you want it to fold.

RobGR
09-22-2012, 8:19 PM
-really like the look of ACE skeleton stock, will it mount to any side-folding receiver?


You can buy a Saiga, convert it and simply swap out the buttstock with an ACE setup. If you want an ACE folder, avoid the "push button" mechanism. You can also buy their AR buffer tube folding mechanism and use at standard AR stock if you like that look and length adjustment feature. Skip the parts kit, buy a Izmash Saiga with a Russian barrel and stamped receiver. Convert it however you like it.

Let us know what you eventually decide to do. There are a ton of options out there. Just keep googling and reading, don't forget google image search, that'll help with additional ideas and questions.

wash
09-22-2012, 9:18 PM
The other option is a single point sling mount/pistol grip reinforcement plate to lengthen the rifle at the rear when the stock is folded.

An AMD 65 is not the right place to start, you would need a very extended muzzle device fixed on the barrel but for the California "assault weapon" ban, permanence of overall length is not required, it's better to get a 16" barrel and a removable muzzle device but the AMD65 gas system is shorter than a standard 16" AK so a 16" kit is the way to go.

For a flat, you want one without the trunnion holes drilled, a rear trunnion with the threaded holes for an ACE folder block (AK Builder sells those I think) and the ACE stock (AKFX I think).

For the rest, fill in the blanks.

fishnbeer
09-24-2012, 3:52 PM
You can buy a Saiga, convert it and simply swap out the buttstock with an ACE setup. . . .
Let us know what you eventually decide to do.

this may be what i will end up with, seems like the easier option. where can i find more info on converting a saiga?

eclectic
09-24-2012, 4:03 PM
Best tutorial I know of is this one> Saiga Pistol Grip Conversion (http://vimeo.com/2787027).

RobGR
09-25-2012, 10:54 PM
There are a lot of resources, even youtube should have some videos on converting Saigas. There are some great builds out there. These guys offer kits for your conversions, though I'm sure you don't have to go through them www.mississippiautoarms.com Also check out the Gunsmith section on Calguns, there have to be resources there, if not, there are a bunch of helpful guys who can offer guidance.

Here's a build from a fellow calgunner:

http://imageshack.us/a/img852/3130/p1000259h.jpg

And FiveSeven's Saiga. Love that he kept the Saiga gas tube, but I think he eventually replaced that with K-VAR polymer handguards.

http://imageshack.us/a/img228/3288/screenshot20120925at105.png

Cheers.

zfields
09-25-2012, 11:05 PM
You can buy a Saiga, convert it and simply swap out the buttstock with an ACE setup. If you want an ACE folder, avoid the "push button" mechanism. You can also buy their AR buffer tube folding mechanism and use at standard AR stock if you like that look and length adjustment feature. Skip the parts kit, buy a Izmash Saiga with a Russian barrel and stamped receiver. Convert it however you like it.

Let us know what you eventually decide to do. There are a ton of options out there. Just keep googling and reading, don't forget google image search, that'll help with additional ideas and questions.

Curious to why you say skip the push button mech. When I was looking at ACE parts, everyone recommended the push button, and thats the way I went. Very solid set up IMO.

RobGR
09-25-2012, 11:16 PM
It seems the general consensus (browsing the forums via google search) from many people is that it has failed. One issue many were facing was that extended use resulted in the screw holding the assembly together would loosen up. Worse case scenario, the stock collapses or even separates while shooting, not what someone wants to have. The other options offered by ACE do not have such a point of failure, probably one reason why it's the only item in stock on their site.

I actually own it too, but have never installed it. I can definitely see where the failure point is, it's in that screw (part of the button) loosening up. Did you apply locktite on the set screw on your setup, zfields?

zfields
09-25-2012, 11:19 PM
It seems the general consensus (browsing the forums via google search) from many people is that it has failed. One issue many were facing was that extended use resulted in the screw holding the assembly together would loosen up. Worse case scenario, the stock collapses or even separates while shooting, not what someone wants to have. The other options offered by ACE do not have such a point of failure, probably one reason why it's the only item in stock on their site.

I actually own it too, but have never installed it. I can definitely see where the failure point is, it's in that screw (part of the button) loosening up. Did you apply locktite on the set screw on your setup, zfields?

It has the same screws at the non push button model, if you are referring to the adjustment screws to set the "tightness". If you are talking about the screw that puts the spring tension on the pushbutton itself, I could see it possibly loosening up, but can be tightened by hand quite easy. It's not a perfect solution compared to a real ruskie/bulgy folder, but its better then a lot of the other options out there.

And yes, any screw on my guns gets loctited.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lrlc5yeKnpM/UFzZ6MYXx3I/AAAAAAAAB6M/I2aEnO5wiNc/s1024/DSC01041.jpg

zfields
09-25-2012, 11:24 PM
Not to mention, I like that it "locks" closed.

RobGR
09-25-2012, 11:41 PM
...screw that puts the spring tension on the pushbutton itself...

Yep, that's the one that concerns me. Additionally, the preference is to have the stock fold to the opposite side of the charging handle and with the ACE push button mechanism that means the button/set screw holding the whole thing together is facing toward the ground and is susceptible to gravity IF it vibrates loose. At least you've loctited it.

Basically, OP has other folding options before buying the only thing they have in stock. I believe there are also other companies that produce folding mechanisms that are compatible with the ACE stock. Don't remember the name of the alternate company, but it had some decent reviews.

zfields
09-25-2012, 11:48 PM
Yep, that's the one that concerns me. Additionally, the preference is to have the stock fold to the opposite side of the charging handle and with the ACE push button mechanism that means the button/set screw holding the whole thing together is facing toward the ground and is susceptible to gravity IF it vibrates loose. At least you've loctited it.

Basically, OP has other folding options before buying the only thing they have in stock. I believe there are also other companies that produce folding mechanisms that are compatible with the ACE stock. Don't remember the name of the alternate company, but it had some decent reviews.

I have mine folding to the left (opposite of charging handle), and the button is on top : )

I know which other one you are talking about, storm something. They don't lock closed either IIRC.

RobGR
09-25-2012, 11:51 PM
Hmmmm, why is mine on the bottom then. Older model? Might be. I've had it for about two years and never installed it... mainly because of CA OAL figging laws.

zfields
09-25-2012, 11:52 PM
Hmmmm, why is mine on the bottom then. Older model? Might be. I've had it for about two years and never installed it... mainly because of CA OAL figging laws.

Mine isn't exactly a "standard" installation. I didn't like the idea of the button on the bottom either.

Skin1991
09-25-2012, 11:55 PM
There are a lot of resources, even youtube should have some videos on converting Saigas. There are some great builds out there. These guys offer kits for your conversions, though I'm sure you don't have to go through them www.mississippiautoarms.com Also check out the Gunsmith section on Calguns, there have to be resources there, if not, there are a bunch of helpful guys who can offer guidance.

Here's a build from a fellow calgunner:

http://imageshack.us/a/img852/3130/p1000259h.jpg

And FiveSeven's Saiga. Love that he kept the Saiga gas tube, but I think he eventually replaced that with K-VAR polymer handguards.

http://imageshack.us/a/img228/3288/screenshot20120925at105.png

Cheers.

What stock conversions are those? is that a VLTOR buffer tube or ?

RobGR
09-26-2012, 12:06 AM
No, those are not Vltor tubes.

The top one, Maygpul UBR (with built in tube) and could be attached to an ACE pignose AR tube adapter.

Second one, is probably a Command Arms polymer tube. Looks like it at least.

Skin1991
09-26-2012, 12:08 AM
No, those are not Vltor tubes.

The top one, Maygpul UBR (with built in tube) and could be attached to an ACE pignose AR tube adapter.

Second one, is probably a Command Arms polymer tube. Looks like it at least.

thanks, still trying to figure out a good new stock for mine.

RobGR
09-26-2012, 12:21 AM
Vltor is gtg, I have one and dig it, they are solid. Those UBR stocks... man, cost as much as a Saiga but look so damn good. If you got the coin, why not.

Have never used the Command Arms polymer one but they are half the cost of the Vltor tube. Composite plastics have proved their worth (Glock, NFA lower) and can be trusted as far as I'm concerned.

zfields
09-26-2012, 12:26 AM
Vltor is gtg, I have one and dig it, they are solid. Those UBR stocks... man, cost as much as a Saiga but look so damn good. If you got the coin, why not.

Have never used the Command Arms polymer one but they are half the cost of the Vltor tube. Composite plastics have proved their worth (Glock, NFA lower) and can be trusted as far as I'm concerned.

Cant comment on the tube, but the two Command arms parts I have used I hated.

SoCalXD
09-26-2012, 12:52 AM
The other option is a single point sling mount/pistol grip reinforcement plate to lengthen the rifle at the rear when the stock is folded.

An AMD 65 is not the right place to start, you would need a very extended muzzle device fixed on the barrel but for the California "assault weapon" ban, permanence of overall length is not required, it's better to get a 16" barrel and a removable muzzle device but the AMD65 gas system is shorter than a standard 16" AK so a 16" kit is the way to go.

For a flat, you want one without the trunnion holes drilled, a rear trunnion with the threaded holes for an ACE folder block (AK Builder sells those I think) and the ACE stock (AKFX I think).

For the rest, fill in the blanks.

What he said:iagree:

gotshotgun?
09-26-2012, 8:59 AM
The Vltor tube is great, just use blue lock tight on the screws.

As for the push button folder I had one and when opened it was sturdy and worked great but when closed it would wiggle enough to be annoying.

hyeg35
09-26-2012, 8:59 AM
here's my sgl-21 with a vltor buffer tube and magpul str. solid, quality tube for sure.

http://i.imgur.com/eAS3Kl.jpg