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View Full Version : Time to Upgrade the Super Sniper (bwiese, Xeno, anyone else with a suggestion)


Prc329
07-02-2007, 7:43 PM
I finally have the chance to Upgrade my super sniper and rings to something more robust.

I would like to go US Optics but not sure it will be in my range. I will have about $1500 to spend on rings and glass. I am also contemplating going with a 20moa base. Gotta trick the savage out to the tilt. I want to make this rifle way better then I am :D I think I have out grown the Super Sniper and since I can do it might as well. So if I can get $250 for the scope and rings I am looking at $1700 to spend.

What are my options and where can I get a US Optics scope without going direct or is that my only option?

So basically what I am asking is what are your recommendations for the price range I am looking at. I would prefer not to look at Leupold. I have my reasons. My list so far is....

US Optics SN3
Night Force but I am not sure of the model yet
IOR not sure of the model though

Any other suggestions? I don't have to spend the entire $1700 so please don't hesitate to suggest anything else. I plan on taking this to 1000 with 175g SMKs and using it in a few matches once I am comfortable enough with my skill level. I also plan on giving this rifle to my Son on his 16th birthday (he is 2 months old) so keep that in mind. Oh and in case no one knows it is a Savage 10fp in 306 with a Medalist stock.

caduckgunner
07-02-2007, 7:51 PM
So how much for the Super Sniper?:43:

Prc329
07-02-2007, 7:55 PM
I still will have one on my ar, it is just the Savage is asking for more.

DJDace
07-02-2007, 8:01 PM
I know you weren't asking me buuuut, I just bought an IOR Valdada 4-14x50mm scope for about $900 shipped and put it in a Larue SPR 1.5 mount and it is SICK. The glass totally outclasses any Leupold I have looked through, the MP-8 reticle is amazing, crisp and sharply defined. The sun shade it comes with is really sturdy as well.

It's a beaut of a scope and I would highly recommend IOR for any precision build. It's not as expensive as a Nightforce/US Optics/Schmidt & Bender but it is a phenomenal scope.

http://www.iammercy.net/dace/AR-15%20Project/IOR4-14x50mm002.JPG

Prc329
07-02-2007, 8:07 PM
That would actually work well for what I am planing. I was looking at a Larue mount for my rifle. I keep seeing them in this mag I read plus own 2 on ARs. Wonderful mounts. I am actually leaning toward IOR since I can trade in my Super Sniper on one.

The thing about the Super Sniper is, it is a great entry level scope to get people (myself included) doing some amazing shooting. I have just decided to move a few steps past it.

What is the diffrence in the MP-8 and a normal mil-dot?

CSACANNONEER
07-02-2007, 8:21 PM
I use both my Nightforce NXSs out to 1000 yards and the 5.5-22 out to 1 mile. If you are going to shoot at distances over 1000, I would suggest the 5.5-22. If you want a dedicated 1000 yard or less scope, I'd go with an 8-32 so that you can learn to read mirage.

DJDace
07-02-2007, 8:21 PM
That would actually work well for what I am planing. I was looking at a Larue mount for my rifle. I keep seeing them in this mag I read plus own 2 on ARs. Wonderful mounts. I am actually leaning toward IOR since I can trade in my Super Sniper on one.

The thing about the Super Sniper is, it is a great entry level scope to get people (myself included) doing some amazing shooting. I have just decided to move a few steps past it.

What is the diffrence in the MP-8 and a normal mil-dot?

Quoting from IOR;

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/usaoptics-store_1914_696069

"The MP-8 Sporting reticle is based on the mil-dot system. In addition to the 1 mil marks, it offers 1/2 mil, 5 mil and 10 mil marks for improved rangefinding and aiming precision. The 5 mils added to the vertical stadia offer holdover capabilities unparalleled by other designs. The 5 mil and 10 mil marks speed initial measurements and target acquisition, and the elimination of the thick post at the bottom of the reticle facilitates a clear, unobstructed view of the target for enhanced tracking capabilities. The reticle's heavy top and side bars are 1 mil thick, and its fine lines are 0.1 mil thick."

The reticle itself is not NEARLY as thick looking when looking through the scope itself. It is very crisp, sharp edged and well defined. The mil marks enable you to make more precise range calculations over distances than standard mil-dots as it offers half-mils and a 5 and 10 mil line.

For $900 I think it is a hell of a bargain. It has a limited lifetime warranty (don't do anything stupid to it, and every other failure of the scope if covered). If I can get my AR finished before the next precision meet you can take a look through mine yourself :)

blkA4alb
07-02-2007, 8:26 PM
I HIGHLY recommend the Nightforce 3.5-15X50 NXS scope. I have it on my AR and the glass is stunning. Well worth the $1300.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/blkA4alb/Untitled5.jpg

Prc329
07-02-2007, 8:28 PM
I'm going to try my larue mount on my Savage and see what cheek and eye relief is like.

Prc329
07-02-2007, 8:44 PM
Realistically I think the IOR is what I am going to go for. $900 - the $225 the offered me for a trade in plus the Larue mount will leave me $500 for an upper for a lower I have been wanting to build up or an AR10 lower.

bear308
07-02-2007, 9:05 PM
if you can wait until a week from Sunday I'll be up at Angeles with my 308. It has an IOR on it with MP-8. If I can coerce my friend into bringing his FN it sports (wood on a lot of guys) and a nightforce. All are excellent. There are things I really like about the IOR over the NF. It has caps on the turrets, some people don't like that. It doesn't have an illuminated reticle, and my wallet thanked me. But from what I have heard and seen, no one makes a scope that tracks better than a NF.

repete34
07-02-2007, 9:09 PM
IMHO NF or Leupold.

Prc329
07-02-2007, 9:12 PM
Hmm. O.K., so I have narrowed it down to an IOR and possibly a nightforce. I would love to say I have a US Optics on my rifle but for the money it looks like I can get more with the other two. IOR is leading on price. I have looked threw a nightforce and it is very nice. I am planning to do 1000 yards at the most currently so that also puts the IOR in the lead since the nightforce may be to much scope for my needs.

Also a set of good rings, probably badger is going to be used instead of the Larue. I can't find anyone with one in stock so the next best thing is badger rings or a set of TPS rings (if I can find them).

DJDace
07-02-2007, 9:29 PM
Hmm. O.K., so I have narrowed it down to an IOR and possibly a nightforce. I would love to say I have a US Optics on my rifle but for the money it looks like I can get more with the other two. IOR is leading on price. I have looked threw a nightforce and it is very nice. I am planning to do 1000 yards at the most currently so that also puts the IOR in the lead since the nightforce may be to much scope for my needs.

Also a set of good rings, probably badger is going to be used instead of the Larue. I can't find anyone with one in stock so the next best thing is badger rings or a set of TPS rings (if I can find them).

You can't go wrong with the IOR I tell ya! :)

Also ...

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=30

This is where I got my Larue mount. Decent price I think.

Prc329
07-02-2007, 9:35 PM
I would need this one

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/M107%20detail.jpg

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=32
Nice mount but dayum. The SPR mount won't work. I just tried it. Eye relief is way to short. remember it is a bolt gun not an AR.

thmpr
07-02-2007, 10:08 PM
After observing the 1000 yard long range tactical even at SAC Valley, I would either go with a NF or US Optics since 80% of all the shooters had them. 10% had SB while the rest had Leupolds.

Mute
07-02-2007, 11:01 PM
Between the NF and the IOR, I'd say the only deciding factor would be if you want FFP or SFP reticles. If SFP, I'd go NF. However, I wouldn't rule out USO if you want more choices in how you configure your scope. No one else can match them in this area.

There are number of USO vendors, though I don't know why you would not go directly to them to order. If you can pay without a credit card, you'll get a cash discount. Depending on the options and model you choose, you might be able to get down into the NF price range.

Prc329
07-02-2007, 11:03 PM
I will be paying cash. I'll give them a call.

mr2.0
07-02-2007, 11:04 PM
IOR, just got a 16x, couldn't be happier

mprahm
07-02-2007, 11:34 PM
Save your money and get a USOPTICS, I just did and cant believe how awesome those things are. I have waited for over 2 years to get this scope on my AR 10T and couldnt be happier. Remember you only need to buy a scope once so buy the one that fits your needs and be done with it. Plus the customer service there is un matched. I walked in with my AR and Arnold put it on for me and bore sighted it free of charge. Hope I can take it out to the socal precision shoot at Burros. If you dont want to save up for a USOPTICS then go NF or Luepold.

DJDace
07-03-2007, 7:07 AM
I would need this one

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/catalog/M107%20detail.jpg

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=32
Nice mount but dayum. The SPR mount won't work. I just tried it. Eye relief is way to short. remember it is a bolt gun not an AR.

Haha yeah I keep forgetting this is for a bolt gun! Their other one piece mounts will work as too. Other than that I agree with ya that Badgers would be an excellent choice.

Also, for everyone saying "If you dont want to save up for a USOPTICS then go NF" - the prices on mid range magnification US Optics and NF scopes are almost the same. You may as well just recommend the USO scope and be done with it. Hell, if you are gonna save $1500 for the Nightforce but deep down you want the USO, just wait one more week to save the extra $200. Cause once you are into that price range, a few hundred extra is peanuts.

Anywho, I'm still backing the IOR option :)

Prc329
07-03-2007, 7:19 AM
Running my options this morning and really thinking about it last night I am going to go for the IOR. As much as I want the US Optics I am looking at about $2500. I'll call them and see what the cash price is but I do not think it will come down as much as I want. If I go with the base SN3 it starts at $1850 and will be about $2100 with options. I would really like the SN3 SSDS but that is $2450. The IOR will run 900-225 so $675. Makes that US Optics hard to digest especially with the praise I have seen from the IOR. Maybe I'll get the IOR and if an opportunity comes along to get a US optics put the IOR on my AR.

Check will clear today so I have some more time to think about this.

O.K., after calling US Optics I am going to go with the IOR 4-14x50 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope (http://www.swfa.com/pc-10180-292-ior-4-14x50-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx) Now I gotta order my mount with a set of Badger Max 50 rings (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/productview?saleitemid=393863&t=11082005)

proraptor
07-03-2007, 9:52 AM
Go US optics! LOL You have wanted one forever....

Prc329
07-03-2007, 9:55 AM
True but I just can't get past the $1993.38 it will cost me. For that price I can get the IOR, rings and a Piggyback 4 I have been looking at :) and have money left for a lower.

proraptor
07-03-2007, 9:56 AM
You are going to be mad when I show up to a meet and shoot with a US optics sn3! :chris:

BTW: Whats a piggyback 4?

Prc329
07-03-2007, 9:59 AM
It can convert my Rock Chucker to a progressive press.

proraptor
07-03-2007, 10:00 AM
I heard those dont work too well

proraptor
07-03-2007, 10:02 AM
BTW: Ill have the rest of my reloading stuff monday....cant wait to start reloading!

Prc329
07-03-2007, 10:10 AM
Hmm. I think I'm going to get the IOR since I can trade my SS and get me a US Optics later and move the IOR to my AR if I feel the need for a USO.

proraptor
07-03-2007, 10:14 AM
Yeah the trade in deal is pretty cool....Not to mention the IOR's are getting pretty good praises....I can imagine spending $2000+ for a US optics! LOL

Which IOR are you looking at getting?

Prc329
07-03-2007, 10:22 AM
http://www.swfa.com/pc-10180-292-ior-4-14x50-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx

I am going to go a little overboard on the rings and get the badger Max 50 rings. Also my wife just made my decision easier. IOR it is, she wants Disneyland passes.

proraptor
07-03-2007, 10:25 AM
disneyland passes? YUCK! I live 2 miles from disneyland....I hear the stupid fireworks go off every night at 9:30PM...Damn you disneyland Damn you!

bwiese
07-03-2007, 10:25 AM
I'm impressed as hell by the IOR scope line. It's like looking thru air they're so clear.

Due to the nature of their internal mechanics they never seem to have reticle problems, or losing zero - and no issues with "cross tracking" (windage being changed via elevation adjustments, or vice versa).

I've looked thru a couple of US Optics and they are wonderful too. For equal power they appear equal brightness - i.e., both brands have high 'transmittivity'.

My vision isn't good enough to tell the difference. I notice no chroma issues around the edges of the visual field in either brand of scope.

If you've got the cash to spend extra for US Optics, great. USO does offer special options for reticles/controls, etc. - all at extra price, it appears. And I imagine these specialty variants have some time delay before shipment.

But if you'd like to save a little, those damned IORs are great.

I've got the following IORs: (discontinued) 8X50 with MP8 reticle, the 6X SuperM2 and the 4X M2. Love 'em. I'm not shooting 1000 yards, but this glass/system will get you there.

Mute
07-03-2007, 10:37 AM
IOR is a fine choice. You can always upgrade later. On the rings, no reason to go up to the Max 50 unless you really plan on abusing your rifle or shooting something more powerful than a .300WM. No sense dragging all that extra weight around if it's not needed.

Prc329
07-03-2007, 10:51 AM
What is a good ring choice? I am putting it on a warne base, also what is the deal with 20/30 moa bases?

Mute
07-03-2007, 11:14 AM
What is a good ring choice? I am putting it on a warne base, also what is the deal with 20/30 moa bases?

TPS, Seekins, US Optics or Badger (non Max 50) are all good to go. The 20 or 30 MOA bases are used if you want have a 100 yard zero and still have enough elevation left on your turret to get out to extended distances, say 1000 yards. On some scopes, you will need the slanted base to be able to zero at 100 yards and dial all the way out to 1000.

Prc329
07-03-2007, 11:18 AM
Hmm. I plan on doing 1000 eventually. Would it be wise to go with a 20moa (warne probably) base with the IOR shown?

GTKrockeTT
07-03-2007, 11:19 AM
TPS rings should be consideration worthy for your usage.
Rings:
http://www.tpsproducts.com/categories.php?cat=5

TPS scope bases for Savage:
http://www.tpsproducts.com/products.php?cat=94

Mute
07-03-2007, 11:38 AM
Hmm. I plan on doing 1000 eventually. Would it be wise to go with a 20moa (warne probably) base with the IOR shown?

How much total MOA elevation does this scope have? Also depends on which load you will shoot predominantly. With a 100 yard zero, off the top of my head (haven't run it through a ballistic calc yet), with 168 gr. SMK you're looking at about 45 MOA to get to 1000, for 175 gr. SMK about 41 MOA and for 155 Scenar about 36 MOA. This will vary from rifle to rifle but are fairly close to what kind of elevation adjustments you'll need to make. If the scope doesn't have enough MOA adjustments, then get the 20 MOA base.

proraptor
07-03-2007, 12:01 PM
Have you also looked into the Nikons? I hear their new monarchs are supposed to be awesome

Prc329
07-03-2007, 12:29 PM
How much total MOA elevation does this scope have? Also depends on which load you will shoot predominantly. With a 100 yard zero, off the top of my head (haven't run it through a ballistic calc yet), with 168 gr. SMK you're looking at about 45 MOA to get to 1000, for 175 gr. SMK about 41 MOA and for 155 Scenar about 36 MOA. This will vary from rifle to rifle but are fairly close to what kind of elevation adjustments you'll need to make. If the scope doesn't have enough MOA adjustments, then get the 20 MOA base.

Cool. I'll keep my current base. The Leupold QRW rings I have just don't seem like they will fit the bill. I am using 175g SMKs right now but plan on using 155s later. The website says it has 82 moa of adjustment.

Prc329
07-03-2007, 12:30 PM
Have you also looked into the Nikons? I hear their new monarchs are supposed to be awesome

Looked threw one a couple of times. They are nice, I just couldn't buy one. I would feel like I was cheating on my 30D :)

proraptor
07-03-2007, 12:33 PM
Looked threw one a couple of times. They are nice, I just couldn't buy one. I would feel like I was cheating on my 30D :)


LOL...OMG.....You and mute are money bags!

DJDace
07-03-2007, 1:07 PM
O.K., after calling US Optics I am going to go with the IOR 4-14x50 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope (http://www.swfa.com/pc-10180-292-ior-4-14x50-tactical-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx) Now I gotta order my mount with a set of Badger Max 50 rings (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/productview?saleitemid=393863&t=11082005)

That's the exact same scope I just purchased and I assure you that you'll not be dissapointed in your decision :)

I went out at night after it arrived and looked at the moon through it (it was a full moon at the time) and needless to say I was utterly amazed at the clairity and light transmission.

Fabulous choice.

proraptor
07-03-2007, 1:16 PM
Are you going to get the illuminated reticule model nate?

Prc329
07-03-2007, 1:18 PM
Haven't decided, probably the non illuminated. Waiting for SWFA to get back about my trade. I may say screw it and sell the super sniper and just order the IOR if they take to long to get back to me.

proraptor
07-03-2007, 1:22 PM
Those illumated reticule scopes are pretty sweet though...

Prc329
07-04-2007, 8:56 PM
I'm going to get the illuminated one. I found it for about $50 more :D

What's up with Burris Rings? The badger ones I want are out of stock so it is the max 50 rings or the Burris ones. The Max 50 are 3 times the price.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/productview?saleitemid=393863&t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/productview?saleitemid=381092&t=11082005

wildcard
07-04-2007, 9:26 PM
You should give the IOR Heavy Duty rings and base a look.

xenophobe
07-04-2007, 10:28 PM
You really can't go wrong with NF. IOR is great glass, though there are so many models that I'm unfamiliar with so I can only comment on the two I've viewed, and would have personally preferred a Leupold LR/T. The 4.5-14x40 LR/T would be a solid choice.

US Optics... Nice, but I wonder if there is a reason why the Marines chose them, and then summarily dropped them for S&B. ;)

I personally wouldn't go above 14-18x as anything more is strictly for punching paper fully supported, but that's a matter of personal preferece, IMO.

As for rings and bases, I'm partial to Badger... they were always good to deal with and you just can't go wrong with them.

Prc329
07-05-2007, 7:25 AM
The IOR should be here tomorrow. We will see what the deal is then :D

proraptor
07-05-2007, 7:37 AM
Cool deal Nate...I expect a full review with pictures on here when you get it! :)

Prc329
07-05-2007, 7:45 AM
Of course.

Prc329
07-06-2007, 11:27 AM
Man, I am very impressed. I will post a more detailed review after the range trip tomorrow. I must say in the case of IOR, the difference between a $300 super sniper and a $900 IOR is a lot more then $600. I really like how the knobs are very, very firm and audible. The glass is that much better unlike the leupold I got a chance to look at. The thing feels like I could smash my super sniper with it.

Let's just say if the range trip tomorrow goes as I think it will there may be a second super sniper on the market. This is a very impressive piece of technology.

I am not knocking the super sniper because mine served me well and is still a good piece of glass to get you out and shooting on a budget.

Proraptor, when you look threw this scope you will not want to spend the extra grand on a USO.

DJDace
07-06-2007, 11:36 AM
Man, I am very impressed. I will post a more detailed review after the range trip tomorrow. I must say in the case of IOR, the difference between a $300 super sniper and a $900 IOR is a lot more then $600. I really like how the knobs are very, very firm and audible. The glass is that much better unlike the leupold I got a chance to look at. The thing feels like I could smash my super sniper with it.

Let's just say if the range trip tomorrow goes as I think it will there may be a second super sniper on the market. This is a very impressive piece of technology.

I am not knocking the super sniper because mine served me well and is still a good piece of glass to get you out and shooting on a budget.

Proraptor, when you look threw this scope you will not want to spend the extra grand on a USO.

Yay! I'm glad you are happy with the purchase :) I felt the same way you did when I first got a look at my IOR.

gn3hz3ku1*
07-06-2007, 12:50 PM
let me know when it goes to mkt!

proraptor
07-06-2007, 2:58 PM
No pics? BOOOOOOO!!!!!! :) Cant wait to try it out

Prc329
07-06-2007, 3:55 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/_MG_0088.jpg

Here is a quick side by side shot of the 2. I'll take pics and start a new thread once I go to Angeles tomorrow.

Budd
07-06-2007, 4:13 PM
There is that crock pot again.:)

DJDace
07-06-2007, 4:55 PM
Did yours ship with a Sun Shade as well? Do you like the MP8 reticle? How does it look illuminated?

Prc329
07-06-2007, 6:22 PM
It did come with the shade. Do not believe I'll use it. At first I thought it was busy but I like it now. Looks cool illuminated. I'll try and get pics later.

proraptor
07-06-2007, 7:30 PM
Im glad you went illuminated....Thats the thing I wish my super sniper had....

Prc329
07-06-2007, 9:11 PM
I just mounted that bad boy. The Burris rings are nice and solid. That scope ain't going no where. I am really impressed with it. I was going to go with Badger rings but the ones I wanted were out of stock and the Burris rings got good reviews.

I'll do a full right up tomorrow after the range trip on both this guy and my Millet DMS-1

Mute
07-07-2007, 10:18 AM
Love to hear about the Millet. I'm looking into that type of scope, though a S&B Short Dot isn't out of the question yet.

PistolPete75
07-12-2007, 8:22 PM
thanks for your super sniper. it will be matched up with my remmy 700 sps in .223

Sig357
09-01-2007, 8:56 PM
I just mounted that bad boy. The Burris rings are nice and solid. That scope ain't going no where. I am really impressed with it. I was going to go with Badger rings but the ones I wanted were out of stock and the Burris rings got good reviews.

I'll do a full right up tomorrow after the range trip on both this guy and my Millet DMS-1


Hey Prc329 Whatever happened with the write up on this glass. I am searching for a new scope for my next build and I am very interested in the IOR. I came across your post during my search.

Oh and where did you purchase it?

Prc329
09-01-2007, 9:18 PM
Hey Prc329 Whatever happened with the write up on this glass. I am searching for a new scope for my next build and I am very interested in the IOR. I came across your post during my search.

Oh and where did you purchase it?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=62743

Sig357
09-01-2007, 9:24 PM
Thanks