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Schutzman
09-22-2012, 9:00 AM
So i've gone and read up on this site, AK 47world and several others. Seems it may be a challenge finding what I think I want. Being new to the ak, I could really use your educated opinions.

Looking @ Atlantic, I was checking out the Vepr Red Wood .
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=1592&virtuemart_category_id=23

For almost 500 less is the Yugo Zastava pap, with the beafy 1.6mm trunnion, etc.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=1551&virtuemart_category_id=23

(Hope the links work)
Would either of these two, fit the bill for what a more serious enthusiast would be looking for? Please share your experiences, knowledge, etc.


Thanks,
Schutz

raceraxe
09-22-2012, 9:12 AM
Get both. You know you would eventually, =)

killathrilla
09-22-2012, 9:13 AM
...

CK_32
09-22-2012, 9:19 AM
Look at a WASR.

Just picked me up one and am happy with it.

zfields
09-22-2012, 9:31 AM
I wouldn't worry to much about "beefy" trunions, unless you plan on launching rifle grenades.

Standard AKM's work, and last, just fine.

510GUY
09-22-2012, 9:54 AM
Buy a saiga and convert it.

Rekrab
09-22-2012, 9:57 AM
1.6mm receiver, not trunnion. If your trunnion was only 1.6mm, you'd have problems.

If I had the money, I'd probably go with the VEPR just because it's already a heavier than standard receiver. Also, the Zastava looks silly with the useless rail on top of its dust cover.

Dinosaur Jr
09-22-2012, 11:11 AM
If I was in the market for another AK-pattern, it would be an Arsenal.

KIDRR
09-22-2012, 11:42 AM
You're going to get about as many differing opinions on this as the Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge arguments. Personally I'm a fan of the Hungarian, Bulgarian, and Russian AK's. All high quality

baih777
09-22-2012, 11:52 AM
If your in socal, riflegear has the PAP and it takes double stack mags.

TF_CAM
09-22-2012, 12:32 PM
Buy an Arsenal... thats the only way to go..

icefire
09-22-2012, 12:58 PM
I'd check the Saiga forum site, and read up on all the differnt types and mods out there. I bought a bone stock Saiga in 7.62x39, converted it, (read up if you don't know what that is), put modern railed furniture on it, and have been happy ever since...plus learned all about the internal workings of an AK doing it..

http://forum.saiga-12.com/

Saiga forum, all about every kind of AK....

Jayruta
09-23-2012, 12:05 PM
I say build your own at a build party or one on one with a experienced builder with all the tools. I personally will not buy anything from arsenal because they are anti california 2a. It took financial greed of not getting a part on californias firearm sales to make them sell to us. Not to mention their threats to pull theor products from any ffl who sold their product to california.

wash
09-23-2012, 12:26 PM
I would probably go for the Yugo and then swap out the top cover.

Yugos have heavier barrels than standard AKs and I think that they are not chrome lined which might mean better accuracy.

On the other hand I don't know much about Veprs, they might be great.

gwgn02
09-23-2012, 12:28 PM
Buy an Arsenal... thats the only way to go..

No its not. Welcome to the world of AK.

chead
09-23-2012, 12:48 PM
Figure out your price range and see what you find. Almost anything will be a good but EXCEPT IOs or anything "American Made" except the very expensive boutique shops. Don't worry about a heavy receiver or trunnion, the standard stuff will work fine.

jonc
09-23-2012, 12:59 PM
KRINK!

Jimmy310
09-23-2012, 10:36 PM
I recently bought a barely used WASR that is very under rated! I had a saiga before that was converted and didn't find the wasr's quality lacking. Did i mention its accurate?

sffred
09-24-2012, 12:32 AM
I used to believe the whole krebs and arsenal hype. Thanks to the AK godfather schooled me on the right track! Do some research and learn the differences between different countries version of the AKM platform. Their differences, pluses, and minuses make you appreciate how the AKM varied throughout the years.

AK47American
09-24-2012, 12:39 AM
Saiga's are gnarly! real heavy duty-like. But I can tell you also want the classic look of an AK.... That VEPR you are looking at is one of the sweetest AK's out there. Only problem is the reciever is shaped a little different, so changeing parts might be difficult. No AK is not worth buying. But personally, I like Russian, Bulgarian, Chinese and Yugoslavian. Those are usually a little more solid then most. Romanians aint bad and you can find them all over the place. Don't worry about which one to get. Buy one now, shoot it, find out what you like and what you would change, then buy another one. Repeat this process till you have to burry rifles in your backyard to make room in the safe.

cannon
09-24-2012, 6:54 AM
Saiga would be my suggestion. Affordable, reliable and high quality and if you don't convert it. No one around you wets themselves or says. "Think of the children."

Nosynchro
09-24-2012, 6:59 AM
M+M M10-762! With a red dot, I was hitting steel out to 300 with ease at Angeles yesterday.

East Bay Cop
09-24-2012, 7:37 AM
Do it right, Rifle Dynamics

CSACANNONEER
09-24-2012, 7:47 AM
Go buy a cheap WASR. Then, you'll have something that works just as well as any other AK on the market. After that, you should look into attending a build party and manufacturing your own AK that meets your exact desires and requirements. After you build one or more, you'll probably be able to sell your WASR for a profit if you want to.

Buy an Arsenal... thats the only way to go..
If you want to overpay for a gun with a crappy rattlecan finish made buy a company who's recent past is full of extremely proactive anti-CA gun owners policies. I don't know of another company that has ever threatened to cut off their vendors if they were caught selling Arsenal remanufactured Saigas to Californians. Arsenal can keep their Saiga conversions and kiss my big fat hairy toe. I'll send my money to the Brady Camp. before I spend a penny
supporting Arsenal.

arslin
09-24-2012, 8:37 AM
I had a bunch of s h I t typed before losing it...

Reading akworld wondering if there is a significant difference in build quality, comparnig '97 to present. The WASR was said to be a piece of crap, but CK32, among others, is finding it fits their needs.

Couple fellas suggest building or converting, but would feel more comfortable doing this with experienced peeps. And with a second purchase. Thanks for the link icefire.

Rekrab, thanks for the correction.

I heard nothing but good things 'bout Arsenal, looking at the SGL's.

Honestly, I'm leaning toward the "Red", as I prefer the traditional ak's.

Thanks to all offering their opinions,
Schutz
IMHO:

Wasr 10s are for the guy who just wants an AK. They are built off parts of old AK parts that could have been used heavy. Century arms has one model (for get the name) a few years back that was poorly done, and had a pertinacity keyhole. It is my understanding that was fixed. Many people have had century arms WASR 10s, and been very happy with them. With me, I like something new...

On the other end of the spectrum, you have the Arsenals. They are new manufacture. Many of the models of receivers are from the plant that invented the AK. They know what they are doing, and I would like to think they have a pride in building that AK. The tolerances are as good as they get in the AK (IMO). People will never say the Arsenals are poor quality, but then you will not have people say they are cheap.

There is more than one company that does the conversions for the Saigas. Century arms does a conversion that was cheaper than what I could have done it for myself. Now, I value learning how my AK works, but I also value not screwing up my new rifle. That is why I went with the century arm AK built off the Saiga.

My next AK will be a Vepr 7.62x54r. That is mostly because I have a ton of surplus 54R ammo I can use.

LAKings22
09-24-2012, 8:42 AM
I have Atlantics Red Russian Classic and its really nice. I've only had a chance to put 250 rounds through it and it was flawless. Great AK but a little expensive.

sffred
09-24-2012, 9:53 AM
Talk to Brashir @ desser fox ( I think that's how you spell his name ) and he will school you on arsenal LV. I say stay away from old century (canted front sight and bubba'd magwell) and IO inc, poor loose rivets (seems like they rush their builds)

Schutzman
09-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Many thanks to all y'alls suggestions. Seriously contemplating going with the Saiga and conveeting, just to good a deal. Looking around for the traditional "Russian Red" furniture, I'm not having any luck, perhaps one of you fine folks could provide a link. May end up purchasing 2 Saigas and doing a traditional and a tactical to satisfy me.

Schutz

Schutzman
09-26-2012, 10:34 AM
Edit: Double post

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
09-26-2012, 11:28 PM
This is just my opinion but the zastevas handguard is too big and the stock feels odd. Its best to try out the firearms in person before making an investment. Just because 4 out of 5 people say they like it, you may not.

MrPlink
09-27-2012, 12:22 AM
Arslin, your view of the Wasr could not be more off base. please do your homework before posting like that.

saki302
09-27-2012, 1:36 AM
Feed an Arsenal good ammo and it will shoot quite accurately. VEPRs are well built too, as are the Saigas.

Get one with a side rail attached. It's nice to have an option to mount optics later if you want.

The only AK I bought assembled was an Arsenal SGL (converted Saiga) with the side rail. Anything else can be easily built yourself (it's difficult to position the side rail right, and some 80% receivers have too much flex for it to be useful).

Riflegear still has M92 PAP pistols- considering what they charge for M92 krink kits, $700 for a built gun (minus buttstock!) seems like a bargain.

-Dave

PS- the infamous keyholing AK was the Tantal built by century. They used an aftermarket barrel with too large a bore diameter for 5.45.

twohi2play
09-27-2012, 5:56 AM
I have read from other forums and seen some threads from riflegear that Arsenal no longer does the saiga conversions. The FIME group has taken over but they still convert the same saiga receivers that come from the izhmash factory in Russia.

VMCJ-3
09-27-2012, 6:06 AM
Go with a Red Jacket AK. I hear it's a game changer... :D

Mamluke
09-27-2012, 11:49 AM
I would probably go for the Yugo and then swap out the top cover.

Yugos have heavier barrels than standard AKs and I think that they are not chrome lined which might mean better accuracy.



+1 ...... Yugo all the way, no brainer bro ....


.....

.....

eclectic
09-27-2012, 1:58 PM
Many thanks to all y'alls suggestions. Seriously contemplating going with the Saiga and conveeting, just to good a deal. Looking around for the traditional "Russian Red" furniture, I'm not having any luck, perhaps one of you fine folks could provide a link. May end up purchasing 2 Saigas and doing a traditional and a tactical to satisfy me.

Schutz

Hey Schutzy -

AK-Builder has stock sets for $150. Here's a Brown Laminate (http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30108) and here's a Birch (http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30110).

Carolina Shooter's Supply (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/StoreFront) has Conversion Kits available, but if you're buying the stock replacements already mentioned, you'll likely only need this one (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-713/SAIGA-RIFLE-TRIGGER-GROUP/Detail). Afraid they don't make one without the PG to my knowledge, but that's only a $12 increase in price or so. You can always sell it to me. Otherwise, you can pick your conversion package from this page: CSS Conversion Bundles (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories).

EDIT: Looks like CSS also has a stock set available, and slightly cheaper (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-539/TIMBERSMITH-TAPCO-AK47-WOOD/Detail).

Good luck, enjoy your new gun.

ChaneRZ
09-27-2012, 2:05 PM
Go with a Red Jacket AK. I hear it's a game changer... :D

And it has never been done before :cool2:

wash
09-27-2012, 2:13 PM
I thought it was: neva been dun befo.

CSACANNONEER
09-27-2012, 2:18 PM
Go with a Red Jacket AK. I hear it's a game changer... :D

I'd buy a RJ AK before I bought an Arsenal. Of course, I prefer to build my own so, I won't ever need to buy either one.

ZX-10R
09-27-2012, 5:22 PM
I recently bought a barely used WASR that is very under rated! I had a saiga before that was converted and didn't find the wasr's quality lacking. Did i mention its accurate?

This...A VEPR is not bad at all. WASRs are pretty good shooters if one gets over the finish but I like the rough look.

Inquirer
09-27-2012, 6:21 PM
Hey Schutzy -

AK-Builder has stock sets for $150. Here's a Brown Laminate (http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30108) and here's a Birch (http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30110).

Carolina Shooter's Supply (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/StoreFront) has Conversion Kits available, but if you're buying the stock replacements already mentioned, you'll likely only need this one (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-713/SAIGA-RIFLE-TRIGGER-GROUP/Detail). Afraid they don't make one without the PG to my knowledge, but that's only a $12 increase in price or so. You can always sell it to me. Otherwise, you can pick your conversion package from this page: CSS Conversion Bundles (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories).

EDIT: Looks like CSS also has a stock set available, and slightly cheaper (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-539/TIMBERSMITH-TAPCO-AK47-WOOD/Detail).

Good luck, enjoy your new gun.

This. Nice one.

Schutzman
09-28-2012, 7:19 AM
You fella's are TOO fu ggin helpful. Decisions decisions.

Mad thanks,
Schutz

CSACANNONEER
09-28-2012, 7:54 AM
You fella's are TOO fu ggin helpful. Decisions decisions.

Mad thanks,
Schutz

Just find a build party within an acceptable driving distance, sign up and manufacture your own. No waiting period, no serial numbers, no paperwork at all and, it's 1005 legal and fun!!!! Also, that way, you will know everything about your rifle and it will be built exactly the way you want it.