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View Full Version : Savage Axis vs. Rem 700 vs. ?


DebraM
09-21-2012, 2:37 PM
Hi All: I am a new shooter getting ready to make my first purchase.

I want something versatile enough to shoot 50 yards up to 600 yards. Cost is somewhat of a factor until I see how this all turns out as far as my capabilities, will be willing to spend higher dollars later. My goal is fun and competition.

My initial choice was a Remington 700 but I have been doing some further research and am now leaning toward a Savage Axis; 223Rem, 243Win or maybe 7-08Rem.

I have read a number of good reviews on this rifle with great out of the box accuracy and more as well as a very reasonable price.

Anyone have one of these rifles? Any thoughts?

Any thoughts on comparison to the Rem 700?

And any other recommendations?

Thanks!

frankm
09-21-2012, 2:43 PM
Welcome. The 700, Savage, Howa 1500 are all good rifles. I think any will do you well. I have a Howa but wouldn't hesitate to own any of them.

bloodhawke83
09-21-2012, 2:55 PM
You can replace the barrel yourself on a Savage. Picking mine up next week.

Later, I'm going to put a wood stock on it but I'll have to change out the recoil lug. I'll just grab a short action savage stock and glass bed it if there is no Axis stock by the time I start working on it. Gonna go with a timmey trigger too.

68camaro
09-21-2012, 3:57 PM
The marlin x7 is not either

bill_k_lopez
09-21-2012, 9:00 PM
You can't really compare the Axis (Savage's "entry" level rifle) to a Remington 700. I might go as far to say that its closer to a 770 (in terms of price and product line equality). I own an Axis and its great BUT that $300 rifle cost a lot more in "upgrades" to get the rifle I wanted. My advice is think about what you want now and might want later and make sure that spending an extra $200 now isn't going to cost you $400 or $500 later.


Depending on which model 700 (http://www.remington.com/product-families/firearms/centerfire-families/bolt-action-model-700.aspx) you're interested in (there are 18 different models listed on Remington's website), you might want to look at a few other Savage options that aren't going to kill your budget.

A good example of like comparrisons would be the Savage 25 Lightweight Varminter (http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/25LV) and the 700 SPS (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps.aspx) or the Savage 10 FP-SR (http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FPSR) and the 700 SPS Tactical (http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-700/model-700-sps-tactical.aspx).

rusty815
09-21-2012, 9:07 PM
I would take a look at something like a Savage Model 10, if you can afford a 700 then you can afford one of Savages higher end models. Nothing wrong with the Axis, but as an entry level rifle its not as refined as its more expensive counterpart.

bill_k_lopez
09-21-2012, 9:25 PM
I would take a look at something like a Savage Model 10, if you can afford a 700 then you can afford one of Savages higher end models. Nothing wrong with the Axis, but as an entry level rifle its not as refined as its more expensive counterpart.

700s aren't necessarily that expensive..depends on the model. 700 SPS tactical $499 (http://www.turners.com/calguns/images/calguns_promo-1qkfzxer2v.gif)

Most Savage Model 10s are under $1000 with the exception of a couple of LE models and the BA.....The model 12 bench rests are their big $ rifles

A model 12 bench rest is around $1500 -
https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/firearms/models/610/qWwaR93v6_eD58JSZw4.png

the 10/110 BA is $2400
https://s3.amazonaws.com/savagefiles/firearms/models/610/k1WOXNkdL_6mogKH29n.png

lapsbpbep
09-21-2012, 11:34 PM
I have the axis in 308 and the 223 love both i did a trigger job and handloads i can shoot about 1/2 moa on the 223 people talk down to them. To me iam happy and everyone that has shot them like them THEY ARE NO 770. Thanks

DebraM
09-22-2012, 11:57 AM
Hi All: Thanks for all of your input so far! I have lots of info to process! I am keeping notes and comparisons on all of this stuff so this really helps. :)

KIDRR
09-22-2012, 12:09 PM
Get the lightest one you can

GuillermoAntonio
09-22-2012, 12:10 PM
i have recently done the same research, I found me a Savage trophy XP with a nikon 3-9x40mm scope included at Turners for $489.
You can find this at davidson's gallery of guns for about $20 more.
I chose .223 because my range only goes out to 300 yds, and its cheaper to train with this ammo.
If you can afford it and have a longer range, I may suggest a .308 for your stated distances. (up to 600 yds).

bloodhawke83
09-22-2012, 12:24 PM
i have recently done the same research, I found me a Savage trophy XP with a nikon 3-9x40mm scope included at Turners for $489.
You can find this at davidson's gallery of guns for about $20 more.
I chose .223 because my range only goes out to 300 yds, and its cheaper to train with this ammo.
If you can afford it and have a longer range, I may suggest a .308 for your stated distances. (up to 600 yds).

223 goes to 600 yards without any trouble, 308 can go further.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

GuillermoAntonio
09-22-2012, 12:56 PM
223 goes to 600 yards without any trouble, 308 can go further.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

True, but unless you handload, or buy expensive ammo, (over $20) it only goes flat to about 300 yds, 500 is pushing it.
For example:
.223 Remington, Hornady V-Max, 55gr
This ammo is $17 at midway.

http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

Range Drop
(inches) Velocity Energy Wind drift
(inches) Time
(milliseconds)
A A A A A
0 -1.4945 3239 1281 0.0000 0
50 -0.2751 3043 1131 0.0000 48
100 0.0040 2855 995 0.0000 99
150 -0.7853 2674 873 0.0000 153
200 -2.7918 2501 764 0.0000 211
250 -6.1902 2335 666 0.0000 273
300 -11.1864 2174 577 0.0000 340
350 -18.0251 2020 498 0.0000 412
400 -26.9983 1873 428 0.0000 489
450 -38.4552 1733 367 0.0000 572
500 -52.8130 1601 313 0.0000 662

At 300 yds your drop is 11.18 inches.
At 500 yds your drop is 52.81 inches.

And if you want to pay over $20 for ammo, you might as well buy a .308

Just my .02

nothing4u
09-22-2012, 1:57 PM
I'd say a go with a Remington 700 SPS in the $500-$600 range and .308 you'll have access to more readily available ammo and ammo types. You got to remember that if you're only going to buy commercial available ammo it's going to cost you anywhere from .50 cent for cheap russian plinking to $1.30 match ammo per round. Guns are cheap it's feeding them that's expensive.

Pete1979
09-22-2012, 2:41 PM
I would recommend the SPS Tactical in 223. Very little recoil, less expensive to feed and less expensive to upgrade in the future. Start at 50 and 100 yds then move out.
I bought one in .308 several years ago and love it. Some people complain about the stock being too flexible toward the front but it hasn't been an issue for me. The Remington has more aftermarket support. While there is a growing aftermarket for the Savage which is in itself a fine rifle, Remington parts are available from at least twice as many sources.

IVC
09-22-2012, 3:23 PM
As for choosing caliber, start splitting them generally into "hunting" and "target/tactical." The main differences are the choice of bullets, availability of ammo and price.

You'll notice that 243 is a fine hunting round, but you won't find many factory loaded boattail full metal jackets (low drag, precision target bullet). Similarly, 7-08 is more of a hunting round. Of the three you mention, 308 is the most versatile since you can find anything from cheap surplus ammo, high precision target ammo, to a wide selection of hunting bullets (partitions, expanding, soft points, etc.).

If you start reloading, it will be less of a problem since you get to choose bullets, so you get to make the best round that suits you. However, since you're just starting, you'll most likely be buying off the shelf ammo and your choices will be limited/influenced by the primary/general purpose of the round.

drifter2be
09-22-2012, 3:43 PM
If you are on a budget I recommend the rifle that I got, Mossberg 100ATR. It has been a good rifle for me. I bought mine in .270 win, I'm not a great shooter but I can do 1.5" 3-shot groups at 100 yards with Remington Core-lokt 130gr SP and sub-MOA 3-shot groups with my handloads.

I haven't tried shooting past 300, but I can put every round on a 12x12 steel plate at 300 yards so I am extremely happy with it. There are a lot of people that will talk down on the rifle, but with what you get for your money, especially if you are starting distance shooting on a budget it is a really good value.

Panchira!
09-22-2012, 7:52 PM
Have you had a look at the tikka t3 line? I just purchased a stainless t3 hunter and can't wait to pick it up. I personally would go with .308. I was looking at them and my god the selection is nuts! From 15 bucks to 69 bucks!

AVID HUNTER
09-22-2012, 8:08 PM
Buy a Remington 700 5R mil spec. In 308

ar15barrels
09-22-2012, 9:38 PM
I want something versatile enough to shoot 50 yards up to 600 yards. Cost is somewhat of a factor until I see how this all turns out as far as my capabilities, will be willing to spend higher dollars later. My goal is fun and competition.

My initial choice was a Remington 700 but I have been doing some further research and am now leaning toward a Savage Axis; 223Rem, 243Win or maybe 7-08Rem.

Since you mentioned competition, I will recommend you stay with a 700 based gun as there are more accessories available for the 700 than all other makes and models combined.
To use an engine comparison, the 700 is the small block Chevy 350 of bolt action rifles...

Now, having said that, check out the caprc forum (link in my signature below) and specifically read the stickied topics on choosing a cartridge and choosing a rifle...

Dogbreath
09-22-2012, 10:24 PM
Ok, you accidentally stepped into a rabid argument. The 700 people are like baptists, the Savage folks pentacostals. They all believe with the same fury, but disagree with each other.

It sounds like you want to shoot targets well. I hope this leads you into hunting, but many very good riflemen and women never hunt, they just enjoy the beauty of the zen moment where body and precise machine combine in silence to project amazing force to 600 yards - accurately. I like to eat meat, so I like it if there is a good eating mammal on the receiving end(but I am not good enough for a 600 yard shot at an animal, not ethical for my skills). Because I am a compassionate person and an animal lover, I go to the range even if I don't feel like it.

I am a Savage guy. Because I bought a new accutrigger Savage and out of the box, no modifications, the first three shots made two holes, one round and one a little oblong. That is a good purchase.

Keep reading, and do not be afraid to get a caliber that is light enough for your shoulder. If you are going to only shoot at the range, get a heavier gun stock. Do not be macho about big bore guns. Do not move up in caliber too soon. Noise and recoil train your body to help lower the pain of the gun hitting you - this is called flinch. You cannot shoot accurately if you flinch. You cannot shoot very far accurately if you do not have a big bang and a heavier bullet. Such is life.

I would reccomend a used gun, of a higher grade instead of a new 700 or Axis. The reason is that a lot of people, like me, have sudden money issues and have to sell very nice guns at 2/3 of their value. Optics are even more discounted. The good news for you is that accurate, longer rifles in smaller calibers are currently out of fashion. Everyone thinks that 30 caliber is a minimum and 338 lapua is needed for good long range. Or that a short tactical military style gun is the bomb. Even if that is right for them it may well be wrong for you.

Good luck. You are on a path that is worth pursuing. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

nn3453
09-22-2012, 11:08 PM
Stay away from the Savage Axis.

Upgrades are non existent. It is not a standard Savage action. Get a Model 10.

Heck, get a Stevens 200 and upgrade later.

sonnyt650
09-23-2012, 6:33 AM
Stay away from the Savage Axis.

Upgrades are non existent. It is not a standard Savage action.

Ding ding, winner...

After a few months of ownership now I've only got a couple hundred rounds through it (compared to my SPS Varmint which saw that many in a couple of weeks) and it shoots well enough if a little unrefined in the cartridge loading and ejection. However it's designed for hunting, not shooting on a range which is my only reason for purchasing it. It's a downright PITA for recreational shooting where loading up the relatively expensive magazines made my fingers hurt.

I should have just bought an SPS Varmint in .223 but the barrel twist rate is kind of slow. I've always read good things about the Mossberg MVP w/ the AR magazines but the aftermarket is probably as limited as the Axis, definitely smaller than the Remington's.

DebraM
09-23-2012, 10:01 AM
Hi All: Thanks again for the continued input! After reading your posts here and doing some more investigating on the Savage Axis, it didn't seem like the rifle I was looking for. I had also seen some conversations comparing Rem 700s and Howas. I remembered there was a Howa 1500 .223 at one of the local gun shops I had looked at early on. I decided to go back yesterday and take another look. I went ahead and purchased it. Rather than worry about competition and stuff yet, I thought it would be better to just get back on the range and start practicing. With .223 rounds, this would be possible without breaking the bank and I think I got a rifle that I can still grow with. When my skills improve, I can always get a different rifle :) But the Howa will always be affordable to practice with. Its has a 24" barrel with a 1:10 twist. It came with a BSA 4:16x mil dot scope and removable bi pod so I can put a sling on it if I want to. It also has a 10 round magazine. There are no signs of excessive wear or misuse. Based on input I have been getting on this forum and what I have researched, I am confident I found myself a good starter rifle. It was $833 out the door with license and tax.

Here's a pic: I pick it up on Oct 2.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HwALrC0Zu2E/UF68jEHeVRI/AAAAAAAAAtw/oZmRsyEDlrg/s288/howa.1500.223.JPG


:)

Pete1979
09-23-2012, 10:08 PM
Are you sure about the twist rate? I have a Howa 223 varmint and its a 1-12 but it is a tack driver with 52gr sierras. As far as quality, I think the Howa is a great piece, the aftermarket just hasn't caught up to them yet. The 223 will not only be cheaper to shoot but it won't beat you up as much as a 308 making longer practice sessions more pleasant.
Next thing to do is get yourself a press and work up a good handload...

DebraM
09-23-2012, 10:25 PM
Are you sure about the twist rate? I have a Howa 223 varmint and its a 1-12 but it is a tack driver with 52gr sierras. As far as quality, I think the Howa is a great piece, the aftermarket just hasn't caught up to them yet. The 223 will not only be cheaper to shoot but it won't beat you up as much as a 308 making longer practice sessions more pleasant.
Next thing to do is get yourself a press and work up a good handload...

Hi!

I did specifically ask them about the twist rate and I was told it was a 1:10. I didn't think anything of it because it seems to be different with each brand of rifle. But on looking around it does appear that the norm for a .223 is 1:12. Is there a way to check? If it turns out to be a 1:12, aside from being disappointing I got fed some bum scoop - I think it will still work fine for my first rifle. Like you said, its cheap to shoot and I won't get beat up. I will call them tomorrow to get some verification.

Thanks!

ar15barrels
09-23-2012, 10:42 PM
The Remington 700 sps tactical with the 20" long barrel in 223 has. 1:9" twist.
Can't help you with the howa tough.

The easy test for twist rate is to take a one piece cleaning rod and wrap a piece of tape around the rod right forward of the handle to create a "flag".
Then push a tight fitting patch down the barrel until the flag is pointing straight up, measure how much rod is sticking out of the barrel to the flag and then push the rod down the barrel until the flag makes one rotation.
Then measure the distance to the flag again and the difference will be the actual twist rate of that barrel.

DebraM
09-23-2012, 10:50 PM
The Remington 700 sps tactical with the 20" long barrel in 223 has. 1:9" twist.
Can't help you with the howa tough.

The easy test for twist rate is to take a one piece cleaning rod and wrap a piece of tape around the rod right forward of the handle to create a "flag".
Then push a tight fitting patch down the barrel until the flag is pointing straight up, measure how much rod is sticking out of the barrel to the flag and then push the rod down the barrel until the flag makes one rotation.
Then measure the distance to the flag again and the difference will be the actual twist rate of that barrel.

Thanks! Thought I had done all my research, but looks like I might have missed this. I don't have the rifle with me yet, but will call them tomorrow to find out whats up.

GuillermoAntonio
09-23-2012, 10:57 PM
The Remington 700 sps tactical with the 20" long barrel in 223 has. 1:9" twist.
Can't help you with the howa tough.

The easy test for twist rate is to take a one piece cleaning rod and wrap a piece of tape around the rod right forward of the handle to create a "flag".
Then push a tight fitting patch down the barrel until the flag is pointing straight up, measure how much rod is sticking out of the barrel to the flag and then push the rod down the barrel until the flag makes one rotation.
Then measure the distance to the flag again and the difference will be the actual twist rate of that barrel.

I know.im.drunk but... How bout a youtube video (cant figure this out)

Pete1979
09-24-2012, 6:40 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about it either way, it will shoot light bullets just fine. Pick it up and get to the range. If you decide to upgrade later, there are stocks and triggers available now as well as barrels.

ar15barrels
09-24-2012, 9:48 AM
I know.im.drunk but... How bout a youtube video (cant figure this out)

cdoCNZBlRGQ

RuggedJay
09-24-2012, 10:30 AM
Remington 700!!! 'Nuff said.

slixx1320
09-24-2012, 10:55 AM
Let us know how that howa is. A buddy has the .308 and it's served him well. I'm deciding between the howa 1500 and the ruger American rifle. Leaning towards the RAR due to the adjustable trigger and for the price, this may be a winner. Reviews are also good with the RAR.

GuillermoAntonio
09-24-2012, 9:47 PM
cdoCNZBlRGQ

Awesome!

thanks!