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View Full Version : 6.5x55 or 6.5 creedmoor for long distance paper punching


sig808
09-20-2012, 5:59 PM
So, I've been on a quest for a 6.5x55 swede bolt action and was going to pull the trigger on a Howa 1500. Then, I started reading more about the 6.5 creedmoor and saw the savage LRP in 6.5c. I like the availability of the 6.5c but heard it burns out barrels a little faster than the swede. I also like that the 6.5c can be had in a short action. Decisions decisions....

Please weigh in or share your experiences with these to calibers. Is the 6.5c really that much of a barrel burner compared to a 6.5swede? Isn't that what replacement barrels are for?

My use will be just to shoot paper and steel out to 800 yards...maybe 1000. No hunting use for me....and I will be reloading.

wash
09-20-2012, 6:49 PM
I have read good things about Creedmore and it has been said that it was designed to feed in a .308 AR platform, then I talked to a guy that makes really nice ARs and he said it doesn't feed as well as 6.5*47 Lapua and Lapua brass is so nice...

Then I read about the Sweede and if you don't mind slightly lower pressure, it has most of the features you want in a long distance cartridge and first hand my Sweede is crazy accurate so I wonder how much better things can get?

For total accuracy in a custom barreled rifle, 6.5*47.

For a non-competition very accurate hobby gun, Sweede is going to be good, especially if you can find a good deal on some surplus ammo (don't mind a bit of tarnish on the cases).

Creedmore is probably great but not as well established as the Sweede.

AR-Tuma
09-20-2012, 7:39 PM
Another nice option if you want to throw .264 sticks is a 260 rem. Doesn't burn barrels out as fast as a 6.5c and if you reload you won't be short on brass since its just necked down .308

mariley85
09-20-2012, 7:52 PM
257wbymag

rusty815
09-20-2012, 7:55 PM
Another nice option if you want to throw .264 sticks is a 260 rem. Doesn't burn barrels out as fast as a 6.5c and if you reload you won't be short on brass since its just necked down .308

260 actually burns barrels out a bit faster than the 6.5CM, since they both use the same type of powder but the 260 generally holds and uses a bit more powder than the 6.5CM.

Both the 6.5CM and 6.5 Swede are great cartridges, you can't go wrong with either, But the Swede outperforms the Creedmoor when loaded to higher pressures. 6.5 Swede load data is very mild because of old mauser type actions that can't handle the pressure a modern bolt action can, but in a modern bolt action the Swede can be loaded a lot hotter and surpass the 6.5CM or 260. Only downside to the Swede is that it needs a long action to bring out its full potential, and if you go with a long action, there are better rounds available (6.5-284 and 6.5-06 both greatly outperform the Swede). With all this in mind, I suggest going with the 6.5CM since it is a true short action round and performs very well out to 1000yds.

CobraRed
09-20-2012, 8:07 PM
+1, it really depends on if you want short action. If so, then creedmore is a good bet, I've been wanting to make a 6.5cm bolt my next purchase - but am afraid of the price of ammo.

sig808
09-20-2012, 8:25 PM
Another thing I was thinking about was that the 6.5c is more available in local stores. Even though I'd be reloading, it would be nice to be able to pick some up at a shop in a pinch.

dfletcher
09-20-2012, 8:34 PM
I bought a Ruger 77V in 6.5 Creedmoor. I have a few other 77Vs and think they are an excellent rifle. Nice trigger, easily adjusted, flat beavertail forend and all of the ones I have are great shooters. The Creedmoor is easy to reload, long necked and handles the heavier bullets well. I know the 77V doesn't have much available for after market parts, but for an "out of the box" set up I think it does fine.

wash
09-20-2012, 8:39 PM
Maybe it's me but I haven't seen a huge number of 6.5 Creedmore rifles out there.

I have seen 6.5*55 Swede ammo a few places.

Unless a lot of 6.5 Creedmore rifles get sold, I don't think Creedmore ammo will be on the shelves very long. On the other hand, plenty of 6.5*55 rifles are out there and they aren't going anywhere.

I doubt either will ever be even as common as .243 and I don't think ammo availability will ever be good enough to give one of them an advantage.

If you make plans to keep ammo available for your gun and reload, any of them including 6.5*47 Lapua are just fine.

sig808
09-20-2012, 9:42 PM
Did more searching about the savage lrp and it seems that their special target trigger has some problems when the weight is set too low. Not that I would set it that low...plus the Howa comes in stainless....I love stainless...unless it's a 1911. It's also about $200 bucks cheaper than the Savage. But the Savage has a DBM and a CDI conversion for the Howa runs about $200 plus the cost of the mag...

So, I guess it's back to square one. But, I think I'm leaning towards the Howa in 6.5x55 swede...it's been around longer, longer barrel life, stainless, decent trigger without the worry of it locking up on me and it's cheaper.

LRShooter
09-20-2012, 9:52 PM
SSS trigger for the Savage

http://www.tacticalworks.com/Savage-Competition-Trigger.html

rusty815
09-20-2012, 10:10 PM
Did more searching about the savage lrp and it seems that their special target trigger has some problems when the weight is set too low. Not that I would set it that low...plus the Howa comes in stainless....I love stainless...unless it's a 1911. It's also about $200 bucks cheaper than the Savage. But the Savage has a DBM and a CDI conversion for the Howa runs about $200 plus the cost of the mag...

So, I guess it's back to square one. But, I think I'm leaning towards the Howa in 6.5x55 swede...it's been around longer, longer barrel life, stainless, decent trigger without the worry of it locking up on me and it's cheaper.

The Howa's trigger might be decent (I have a Weatherby Vanguard, same action and trigger, and the trigger isnt really that good), but the Savage trigger is lightyears better. You can adjust the weight, no need to set it at its lowest setting, leave it at 1lb and it should be fine and completely smoke the Howa trigger. Also keep in mind the Savage barrel is 26" which should be longer than the Howa, adding to the velocity. Also the LRP should come with a freefloated accustock, which adds to its accuracy. All things considered, the 6.5x55 barrel should last just about as long as a 6.5CM, if you load the Swede hot so its faster than the CM, then it will take a hit on barrel life and then the 6.5 will have the advantage.

Basically what I'm saying is get the Savage ;)

Edit: Just checked and the LRP doesn't have an accustock, but its still freefloated as opposed to the Howa.

sig808
09-20-2012, 11:35 PM
nice trigger replacement......hmmm...maybe the LRP still has a chance!

Savion
09-20-2012, 11:59 PM
With the Savage, when the barrel shot out you can replace it yourself with just the cost of the barrel. My 260 has about 2K rounds thru and still shoot 1/4" 5 shot group. Just keep your load mild if you don't shoot 1000 yd all the time.

Gofasterdammit
09-21-2012, 5:35 AM
Maybe it's me but I haven't seen a huge number of 6.5 Creedmore rifles out there.

I have seen 6.5*55 Swede ammo a few places.

Unless a lot of 6.5 Creedmore rifles get sold, I don't think Creedmore ammo will be on the shelves very long. On the other hand, plenty of 6.5*55 rifles are out there and they aren't going anywhere.

I doubt either will ever be even as common as .243 and I don't think ammo availability will ever be good enough to give one of them an advantage.

If you make plans to keep ammo available for your gun and reload, any of them including 6.5*47 Lapua are just fine.


6.5 Creedmor (no E) is one of the top 3 calibers used in LR competition. PTG can't keep reamers on the shelf. Factory Hornady ammo and brass is in abundance. 6.5 Creedmor isn't going anywhere. Just because large manufacturers don't make $300 bolt action rifles chambered in it does not mean it's not popular.

phish
09-21-2012, 11:30 AM
6.5 Creedmor (no E) is one of the top 3 calibers used in LR competition. PTG can't keep reamers on the shelf. Factory Hornady ammo and brass is in abundance. 6.5 Creedmor isn't going anywhere. Just because large manufacturers don't make $300 bolt action rifles chambered in it does not mean it's not popular.

hard to give that opinion much weight if homeboy can't even afford gas to shoot past 100 y :p

shortage of 6.5 x47 brass right now, and it's probably less prolific than the Creedmoor for factory chambered rifles

Ahhnother8
09-21-2012, 12:23 PM
6.5 Creedmor (no E) is one of the top 3 calibers used in LR competition.

Uh, no. I've shot a few long-range matches and have yet to see even one on the firing line.

phish
09-21-2012, 12:41 PM
^ he's referring to tac matches

it could easily be construed that a .284 Winchester and its ilk are "not popular" if activities are swapped

ar15barrels
09-21-2012, 12:50 PM
Uh, no. I've shot a few long-range matches and have yet to see even one on the firing line.

Who are you?
You only have like 991 posts... ;)

wash
09-21-2012, 1:17 PM
Matches are one very small segment of the firearms market.

It's also a segment where people who want to win will experiment and do whatever it takes including custom chambered match barrels hence lots of reamer sales.

There are a hell of a lot more people with Sweedish Mausers and 6.5*55 hunting rifles than there are competitive match shooters.

They might not get shot as often as a match rifle but that's another thing, people with match rifles are going to reload or buy ammo by the case, not 20 rounds at a time from Big5. That screams "mail order" to me because the local gun store will never be able to compete on price.

I don't think any of that points toward wide spread 6.5 Creedmor ammo availability.

Lapua might be hard to get but it will continue to be available as long as match rifle shooters demand it and I've never heard anyone say 6.5 Creedmor will always beat 6.5*47 in a match rifle.

So the choice is between two calibers where ammo and component availability is questionable but likely ~always obtainable with a little difficulty or the Sweede that is going to be hit and miss at the local gun store and likely ~always available if you can mail order and already 3-4 companies making brass for it (although some of it is slightly off in the case head).

Ahhnother8
09-21-2012, 1:33 PM
Who are you?
You only have like 991 posts... ;)

Touche'

Gofasterdammit
09-21-2012, 1:58 PM
Uh, no. I've shot a few long-range matches and have yet to see even one on the firing line.

You need to come out on the first weekend of the month. You know, those guys that wear too much Multi-Cam and shoot at a 2" X ring for the entire course of fire from 200 to 1000 yards. :cool2:

rusty815
09-21-2012, 1:59 PM
6.5 Creedmor (no E)

Its actually Creedmoor, two O's :p

http://www.hornady.com/store/6.5-Creedmoor/

It is actually very popular in long range competitions (not including tactical, in which people like to stay with mostly classic military cartridges). The CM is one of the big 3 6.5 calibers that are all the rage, along with the 260 and the 6.5x47 Lapua. Each of them perform so close that they are nearly identical, its just whichever one floats your boat.

Of course, none of them will reach the availability that the 6.5x55 has, at least not any time soon. If ammo availabilty is a major concern to you (the CM is actually quite available for a cartridge that only really has one manufacturer supporting it) then go with the Swede. If you can live with the availability of the CM, then by all means go with the CM.

Hoop
09-21-2012, 3:39 PM
What about a 6.5 grendel AR? Brass is becoming more available for them and there are drop in barrel and bolt kits available.

wash
09-21-2012, 4:19 PM
Yeah, Lapua supports 6.5*47, single source (but those Finns are serious about accuracy), Hornady supports 6.5 Creedmoor (at least I can spell creed) and 6.5*55 Sweede has Winchester brass, Remington I think, Prvi Partizan, Lapua I think, Norma probably and maybe more.

Hornady is pushing hard, I'll give them that but I'm not sure I've ever seen an actual 6.5 Creedmoor chambered rifle in a gun store.

I have never seen a .458 SOCOM AR in a gun store but I have one and I manage to find ammo for it. I think the situation will be very similar for all the 6.5mm choices except for maybe a Sweedish Mauser in the C&R rack and occasionally some ammo here and there.

Pthfndr
09-21-2012, 6:31 PM
OP

If you are going to reload then there is little to no difference in barrel life between the 6.5x55, 260 and 6.5 Creedmoor - if you are optimizing your loads.

There is NO match grade factory ammo for a 6.5x55 that is unsafe in a Swede 96 Mauser. All factory loaded ammo is purposely loaded to be safe in that firearm, and so runs at a lower pressure than one can safely load the 6.5x55 for in a modern firearm. There is lots of hunting ammo for the 6.5x55. Using factory ammo a 6.5x55 can almost equal a 308 in barrel life.

All (most) factory rifles in 6.5x55 these days come with shorter barrels. 24"-26" length. That means the factory 6.5x55 ammo will run even slower as it's designed to be safe in a Swede Mauser with a 29" barrel.

If you hand load, for the same length barrel and bullet weight in a MODERN action, the 6.5x55 can surpass the 260, 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor in muzzle velocity simply due to the larger case. That larger case, and longer overall cartridge length, are also why the 6.5x55 uses a long action vs. a short action for the other 3.

But that increased muzzle velocity comes at a price - barrel life. If you keep your loads at or less than what the other 6.5s run then barrel life is better, but you give up any advantage.

One nice thing about any 6.5 cartridge if you hand load is that are a lot of really good bullets for them no matter what the application.

Unless you are shooting in high speed tactical bolt rifle matches the difference in action length is a non factor (and even if you are, it won't make a difference if you know how to "run your gun". Ask me how I know that ;) )

The 6.5x55 (and wildcat variants) has been popular in long range prone and F Class target matches because of the low recoil and excellent ballistics of the heavy 6.5 bullets. Not so much in "tactical" bolt rifle matches because of the perceived disadvantage of the long action.

The 260 and 6.5 CM are not as popular in long range prone and F class target matches because they do not produce the velocity needed to be competitive with the custom 7mm and 6mm rifles, and other 6.5 rifles.

FWIW I'm a big fan of 6.5x55. Own several of them, both Swede Mausers and modern ones. If you are thinking of a 6.5x55 factory rifle for target shooting I would recommend looking at the Tikka T3 Sporter. I'm also a big fan of Tikka rifles. Arguably the smoothest bolt of any factory rifle out there.

My avatar pic is me with my Tikka 695 in 6.5x55 that I shoot in LR prone and F Class matches, and also in tactical bolt rifle matches. It has a custom 29" barrel and throws a 139gr bullet at 2925 fps. Not a whole lot less than a 6.5x284. Good barrel life was about 2800-3200 rounds.

Pthfndr
09-21-2012, 6:40 PM
6.5 Creedmor (no E) is one of the top 3 calibers used in LR competition.

^ Shoots LR tactical matches.

Uh, no. I've shot a few long-range matches and have yet to see even one on the firing line.

^ Shoots LR prone matches

russ69
09-21-2012, 7:41 PM
6BR

choprzrul
09-21-2012, 8:00 PM
My advice:

Ask Fjold for advice on all things 1000yd related.

He knows.

.

wash
09-21-2012, 9:10 PM
Hey Pthfndr, would an Arisaka 38 count as a modern action?

I've heard it's the strongest WWII action made but don't know how that compares.

Pthfndr
09-21-2012, 10:08 PM
Hey Pthfndr, would an Arisaka 38 count as a modern action?

I've heard it's the strongest WWII action made but don't know how that compares.

Not modern, but if one were to rechamber one for 6.5x55 they could run it hotter than factory ammo since it is one of the strongest actions made.

My comments were in regard to the Swede Mauser 96 small ring action which is rated at a relatively low 46,000 vs 55,000 - 60,000 that a newer action can handle. Even a Mauser 98 action can withstand higher pressures than the 96.

But for most people that is a hobby gun. Not a serious target rifle, though people do it (like me).

Even the Finns got into the 6.5 game by rechambering 7.62x54 into 6.5x54 in a Mosin action. I even have chamber prints for that and may try it some day :)

wash
09-21-2012, 10:42 PM
I want to try that with a Mosin too.

My Arisaka sporter shoots amazingly well for it's optic setup (ancient, cloudy, friction adjust 6x Redfield on weird mounts). I've got a better scope that's still ~period correct (ancient, clear Japanese 10x32 with fine crosshair reticle and actual clicks), eventually ammo will be the limiting factor, if I can get an edge, I might be able to move from the 600 yard line to 1,000.

Ahhnother8
09-23-2012, 9:00 AM
^ Shoots LR tactical matches.



^ Shoots LR prone matches

Yeah, but: LR prone > tacticool :cool:

RugerNo1
09-23-2012, 9:20 AM
Yeah, but: LR prone > tacticool :cool:

It is the jackets. :cool:

sig808
10-06-2012, 9:12 AM
update....I've decided to just go with a .260. Savage has the LRP in .260 and it looks like a great value rig for the money.

gat
10-06-2012, 11:42 AM
Another nice option if you want to throw .264 sticks is a 260 rem. Doesn't burn barrels out as fast as a 6.5c and if you reload you won't be short on brass since its just necked down .308

Super happy with my .260. Never shot as accurately as I do with that rifle.

nimoZ
10-06-2012, 1:47 PM
Here is some to read about 6.5's

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

I plan to own a 6.5 in the future - don't know which.
- Maybe one isn't enough - and I feel strongly attracted to the 6.5x55 :)

phish
10-06-2012, 2:04 PM
- Maybe one isn't enough - and I feel strongly attracted to the 6.5x55 :)

hmmm ;)

wash
10-06-2012, 7:09 PM
I've got my new scope on my Arisaka 6.5*55 Swede sporter and I'm going to be trying it out at Coalinga next Sunday probably.

I'll try to show what $600 of rifle, vintage scope and surplus ammo can do.

ar15barrels
10-06-2012, 7:19 PM
Another nice option if you want to throw .264 sticks is a 260 rem. Doesn't burn barrels out as fast as a 6.5c and if you reload you won't be short on brass since its just necked down .308

In theory, 6.5 creed more should have better barrel like than a 260.
In reality they are so close that you can pretty much ignore the differences and just plan on rebarreling any of them just after 2000 rounds...

Flouncer
10-06-2012, 8:08 PM
beat this .. .. .. .. ..

I'll wait. 120 yo vs the newcomer. :sleeping:

Check out Light Gun Match 4 relay 2. Mr. James Lorenz

I read that as a 2.642-inch group at 1,000 yards. :sleeping:


http://www.wv1000yd.com/Match_Results_2011.html

I've posted this here before, I weary of the beatings.. . . . . . . . ..

Edit: One other thing.

There ain't a single Creedmoor there.

rksimple
10-06-2012, 8:38 PM
Between the 2, the 6.5 creedmoor would be my pick. Mag length seating is not an issue, factory ammo is available, and it has a CDI factor with that nice short action. :)

Like George Gardner said to me at a little gathering, "it's not the cartridge. It's how you shoot and what you want." All my competition rifles will soon be moving to 6mm Creedmoor from 243 and 260. And I'm picky.

David Addler
10-07-2012, 5:18 AM
Just had Savage Custom shop build a 6.5CR in a model 10 flcp-k (I'm a lefty) to match my .308. I have just 70 rounds of 140 Amax through it at 100 and 300 yards, including barrel break-in. None of my nine groups shot (5 shots/group) have been over .736 CTC and I have six of the nine under .5 MOA. Chrono'd at 2784 ft/sec, SD 9; a little faster than Hornady advertises. Why 6.5CR? I wanted something a little different, but still easy and inexpensive to reload with readily available components. I also wanted a short action round and, of course, a left handed rifle.

sig808
10-07-2012, 8:39 PM
Thanks Randall! That was just the answer I was looking for. I was discussing barrel life between the 6.5c and the .260 today with a buddy. He was pushing the 6.5c based on barrel life (theoretically), so your post based on realty/experience helps a bunch.

However...I know that it's just a matter of time before I end up with both a .260 and a 6.5x55!

6mmintl
10-08-2012, 5:11 AM
I dont think I have ever seen a type 38 6.5x52 Japanese rifle beyond the 50/100 yard line the past 28 years in NorCal, certainly not at a highpower/long range/ or silhouette match.

I suppose if you could find a decent barrel on a military one or custom barrel (plus a good action tune up) the cartridge should be capable of going the distance.

Horton Fenty
10-08-2012, 6:27 AM
Out of the two you listed I would pick the Creedmoor. After that I would have a hard time choosing between it and the 260 Remington. Here's an article on some 6.5mm cartridges.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

gau17
10-08-2012, 8:52 AM
Has anyone mention factory match ammo for 6.5 Creedmoor is 23.00?

wash
10-08-2012, 12:59 PM
I dont think I have ever seen a type 38 6.5x52 Japanese rifle beyond the 50/100 yard line the past 28 years in NorCal, certainly not at a highpower/long range/ or silhouette match.

I suppose if you could find a decent barrel on a military one or custom barrel (plus a good action tune up) the cartridge should be capable of going the distance.
If you want to carpool (I'm in the south bay), you can see me try a match with a type 38 sporter (reprofiled barrel and rechambered in 6.5*55 Swede).

Bug Splat
10-08-2012, 1:04 PM
The 6.5 bullet is my fav bullet. 6.5x55, 6.5CM, 6.5x47L, 260rem .... all are great shooters and with the right reloads have almost no difference between them.

17+1
10-09-2012, 7:03 AM
I dont think I have ever seen a type 38 6.5x52 Japanese rifle beyond the 50/100 yard line the past 28 years in NorCal, certainly not at a highpower/long range/ or silhouette match.

I suppose if you could find a decent barrel on a military one or custom barrel (plus a good action tune up) the cartridge should be capable of going the distance.

Might be an OK silhouette gun.

Mil-surp rifles get very hot with 20 plus shots in a HP match. :o

6mmintl
10-09-2012, 2:44 PM
wash,
Sure, would like to carpool, what kind of car/truck do you drive? big trunk/bed? figure on taking a scope/stand, shooting mat, rest/box, ammo, two guns apiece, drinks/cooler, will split gas of course.

Let me know

wash
10-09-2012, 2:58 PM
No, I need a ride and will split gas.