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View Full Version : Is my AR barrel and chamber chrome-lined?


snovvman
09-16-2012, 12:23 AM
I recently bought an AR upper, this is unfired. I opted for chrome-lined chamber and barrel.

Before I commit to it, I just want to make sure that the barrel and chamber are in fact chrome-lined. I have been reading and seeing other examples.

The picture of the chamber below looks like it has a silver-ish froth that would suggest it is chrome-lined:

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq228/snovvvman/Gun%20Sale/DSC_0067.jpg

However, there is no silver ring at the tip of the barrel:

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq228/snovvvman/Gun%20Sale/DSC_0056a.jpg

There is no stamp on the barrel whatsoever.

Please advise. Thanks.

kendog4570
09-16-2012, 4:24 AM
From your pictures, it doesn't look like it is.
Also, the chamfering of the threads at the muzzle look hand-filed or ground, and amateurish.

Bartin
09-16-2012, 4:53 AM
I'd wager a no. Also, the muzzle threads look abused. Reveal the source and you'll get more info. If you need to keep it a secret, it probably isn't legit

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 5:16 AM
No stamp on the barrel to even indicate what it's chambered for? I'd say to run away, but since you already bought it...

ExtremeX
09-16-2012, 5:19 AM
Where did you get the barrel?

snovvman
09-16-2012, 7:12 AM
Thanks for the replies.

The kit came from akpartskits.com/Blackthorne. I ordered the chrome-lined option and there was a paper tag that reads "chrome lined chamber and barrel".

After reading about chrome lined at different places, I decided to look.

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 7:14 AM
Oh boy...

I suggest you spend some time on google looking up info on Vulcan/Blackthorne/Hesse. You're not going to like what you see...

snovvman
09-16-2012, 7:19 AM
Oh boy...

I suggest you spend some time on google looking up info on Vulcan/Blackthorne/Hesse. You're not going to like what you see...

I started to...

I do see a lot of not so flattering reviews and feedback, especially from some time ago. At the same time, there are also some that are not so bad. It is definitely a mixed bag.

At this point, I'd be okay if just got what I paid for.

Thanks again.

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 7:22 AM
But you didn't get what you paid for, and as Kendog4570 pointed out the chamfering looks like crap. I happen to think those lugs look like crap. Get a refund while you can. Any positive review I've seen out of anyone regarding vulcan/blackthorne/hesse products is due to the person not knowing any better(and you knew enough to question what you received).

Get your money back if you still can, save a few more bucks and get something from a vendor that isn't known for selling garbage.

snovvman
09-16-2012, 7:38 AM
But you didn't get what you paid for...

It's disappointing and a bit surprising to think that a a company would charge for something that they do not deliver. Thinking naive I suppose.

Just out of curiosity--does the chamber *look* chrome-lined?

Also, I don't know what I'm looking at--what makes the lugs and chamfer look bad?

Thanks.

tujungatoes
09-16-2012, 7:49 AM
Chamber end is too blown out by the camera flash to say. I don't see what's wrong with the locking lugs other than them looking dirty, but :shrug:. Judging by the muzzle pic I'd agree with the others and say no chrome. Maybe have someone local that knows what's up look at it in person. If it turns out that it really isn't, get on the phone with blackthorn tomorrow and ask them to make it right. I've been shipped the wrong merchandise by larger well reputed companies on accident several times.

I know the company reputation, but some friends and I have had dealings with them recently(AK related though) that were just fine. See what happens.

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 7:52 AM
Well for starters, the end of the barrel isn't round. Look at the 11 o'clock position in your picture. Second, you can see from the marks that it was done very roughly. Third, the bottom edge(6 o'clock position) looks like crap.

The chamber looks... something. Is it chrome? Possibly, but the lugs look like a rough mess for no reason. Look at the edges of the top two lugs in your picture at 11 and 1 o'clock. Look at the nick on the right edge of the lug at 4 o'clock. What's that smear that runs from 6 o'clock to 11(or is that just the camera flash and the angle or something)? The top face of the lug at 9 o'clock looks like a bad concrete job. Look up images of what a barrel extension and locking lugs should look like and compare those to what you're seeing in person.

Dinosaur Jr
09-16-2012, 8:55 AM
More...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=41761

CK_32
09-16-2012, 8:57 AM
:popcorn:

snovvman
09-16-2012, 10:24 AM
What is a source for a budget-minded 14.x upper/kit? I would like to buy something that does not have the flash hider pinned so I can put on my own gas block and muzzle device. I'm looking for a M4 A3 w/ chrome-lined bore and chamber. It's just an expensive Lego set that I would like to tweak.

I started with Del-Ton but what I want is not in stock. I looked at many others, PSA, Model 1, etc. but no one seems to have what I'm looking for.

Thanks.

ke6guj
09-16-2012, 10:29 AM
What is a source for a budget-minded 14.x upper/kit? I would like to buy something that does not have the flash hider pinned so I can put on my own gas block and muzzle device.
I'm hoping that you have a legal use for that 14" barrel before you get it pinned. If you already have a rifle lower, and don't have a pistol lower for it, you would have constructive possession of an SBR (federally and CA), which is a felony.

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 10:33 AM
So go to a gun smith and have them build you an upper with the exact parts you want. Unless you're going for the lightest build possible(not necessarily something to do on a low budget), a 14.5" barrel restricts your ability to just swap things out since you need to have a muzzle device pinned and welded on. Federal NFA laws are not a joke.

snovvman
09-16-2012, 10:35 AM
I'm hoping that you have a legal use for that 14" barrel before you get it pinned. If you already have a rifle lower, and don't have a pistol lower for it, you would have constructive possession of an SBR (federally and CA), which is a felony.

I do have a pistol lower, but my plan is to get the upper complete (and pinned) before ever mating it to the lower. I have the muzzle device, gas block, etc. all ready waiting for the upper.

Part of the reason that I went with Blackthorne was because they had the configuration I needed.

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 10:42 AM
I do have a pistol lower, but my plan is to get the upper complete (and pinned) before ever mating it to the lower. I have the muzzle device, gas block, etc. all ready waiting for the upper.

Part of the reason that I went with Blackthorne was because they had the configuration I needed.

Ok, so you're building an AR pistol with a 14" barrel(longer than I'd go with on a pistol, but whatever) and pinned extension(why pin and weld the muzzle device for an AR pistol? You already need a magazine lock anyway).

Regardless, you should still get your money back for that upper. Just because an item is out of stock somewhere is not an excuse to accept sub-par garbage that isn't even as advertised. It's not as if it's impossible to get a 16" barrel cut down and threaded.

snovvman
09-16-2012, 1:50 PM
Ok, so you're building an AR pistol with a 14" barrel(longer than I'd go with on a pistol, but whatever) and pinned extension(why pin and weld the muzzle device for an AR pistol? You already need a magazine lock anyway).

Regardless, you should still get your money back for that upper. Just because an item is out of stock somewhere is not an excuse to accept sub-par garbage that isn't even as advertised. It's not as if it's impossible to get a 16" barrel cut down and threaded.

I wasn't clear with my intent. I have a pistol lower sitting around in case I needed to maintain the legality. The real pistol build will come later. This upper will ultimately go on a rifle lower as a pinned 14.x" setup.

Revolver Ocelot
09-16-2012, 2:04 PM
Does PSA not offer their 14.7 uppers without a muzzle device pinned anymore?

XDRoX
09-16-2012, 2:15 PM
BCM sells them. Stripped barrels for $229. You can expect quality from them. I just received a complete 14.5" upper from them last week and couldn't be happier.

1000stars
09-16-2012, 2:25 PM
Here are more options....

http://www.riflegear.com/c-92-barrels.aspx

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 2:39 PM
I wasn't clear with my intent. I have a pistol lower sitting around in case I needed to maintain the legality. The real pistol build will come later. This upper will ultimately go on a rifle lower as a pinned 14.x" setup.

Well that doesn't really matter. As long as you have some legal explanation for it in case the ATF comes knocking, that's fine.

But as other people have pointed out, you can get barrels elsewhere. Return the trash, get something decent.

ar15barrels
09-16-2012, 6:49 PM
It looks like someone sprayed chrome spray paint into the chamber.

The test for chrome lining is cold bluing.
If you put some cold blue on a q tip and put it on z chromed surface, the chrome will not react.
If you put cold blue on raw steel, it will instantly turn black.
Before you try this, degreaser the area to be tested with some brake cleaner.
If it is indeed chrome spray paint, the brake cleaner will clean it off.
If it's hard chrome, nothing should come off with brake cleaner...

voiceoftheright
09-16-2012, 7:11 PM
I normally don't chime in on these threads, but Blackthorne is the worst. I bought a "complete" upper form these d-bags off Gunbroker back in 2008 that arrived without a BCG. Then they left me negative feedback as an "abusive buyer" after I left appropriate feedback and had to pay return shipping and wait weeks for a refund. Great people. Also, the upper was far from fitting onto my Spike's lower, way out of spec. I would suggest staying away from barrels unmarked, especially from this company.

FLIGHT762
09-16-2012, 7:15 PM
It looks like someone sprayed chrome spray paint into the chamber.

The test for chrome lining is cold bluing.
If you put some cold blue on a q tip and put it on z chromed surface, the chrome will not react.
If you put cold blue on raw steel, it will instantly turn black.
Before you try this, degreaser the area to be tested with some brake cleaner.
If it is indeed chrome spray paint, the brake cleaner will clean it off.
If it's hard chrome, nothing should come off with brake cleaner...

I believe you're right. Turn the photo 180. There looks to be overspray.

O/P, do what Randall said and let us all know.

snovvman
09-16-2012, 8:48 PM
O/P, do what Randall said and let us all know.

Copy that.

snovvman
09-16-2012, 8:50 PM
It looks like someone sprayed chrome spray paint into the chamber.

If it is indeed chrome spray paint, the brake cleaner will clean it off.

I believe you're right. Turn the photo 180. There looks to be overspray.

The plot thickens... standby...

snovvman
09-16-2012, 9:05 PM
I have some cold blue but can't find it, but I do have brake cleaner.

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq228/snovvvman/Gun%20Sale/DSC_0067a.jpg

The collective wisdom of this Forum is impressive. More amazing is people's willingness to help, and ability to glean information from pictures I took with my phone camera.

The gray "over-spray" on the rim come right off with brake cleaner. What is more disturbing, the shimmering grayish stuff on the inside area (sorry, don't know what it's called) wiped right off also.

Now then, I want to give the company the benefit of doubt. Maybe they made a mistake. At the same time, why would anyone spray paint/paint the chamber of the barrel under any circumstance?

HK Dave
09-16-2012, 9:08 PM
It looks like someone sprayed chrome spray paint into the chamber.

The test for chrome lining is cold bluing.
If you put some cold blue on a q tip and put it on z chromed surface, the chrome will not react.
If you put cold blue on raw steel, it will instantly turn black.
Before you try this, degreaser the area to be tested with some brake cleaner.
If it is indeed chrome spray paint, the brake cleaner will clean it off.
If it's hard chrome, nothing should come off with brake cleaner...

God it's good to have Randall back.

ar15barrels
09-16-2012, 9:10 PM
why would anyone spray paint/paint the chamber of the barrel under any circumstance?

to give the appearance of chrome lining.
If brake cleaner blasted the silver down the barrel, that was spray paint.

Merc1138
09-16-2012, 9:12 PM
Now then, I want to give the company the benefit of doubt. Maybe they made a mistake. At the same time, why would anyone spray paint/paint the chamber of the barrel under any circumstance?

As we said, you didn't get what you paid for. They are frauds, that's why. Crap like this is the reason that Vulcan/Blackthorne/Hesse has earned the reputation that they have.

edit: Got a pic of it now with the paint gone?

kendog4570
09-16-2012, 9:17 PM
OP, was the picture in post #30 taken after you tested with brake cleaner?

snovvman
09-16-2012, 9:25 PM
OP, was the picture in post #30 taken after you tested with brake cleaner?

No, I used the original picture to draw the red outlines. I removed only a small amount of the paint because I wanted to leave the rest on the barrel when it is returned.

The worst part of this is that [by all indications] someone intentionally attempted to defraud. With so many counterfeit things coming from other countries, I would think/hope that we still have our integrity in this country. Naive thinking, I know. It's disappointing--a shame.

kendog4570
09-16-2012, 9:28 PM
Can you post a pic of the "after"?
Thanks.

snovvman
09-16-2012, 9:37 PM
edit: Got a pic of it now with the paint gone?

Can you post a pic of the "after"?
Thanks.

BEFORE

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq228/snovvvman/Gun%20Sale/DSC_0067.jpg

AFTER

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq228/snovvvman/Gun%20Sale/DSC_0069a.jpg

kendog4570
09-17-2012, 8:40 AM
Wow. The gypsy version of chamber chrome.

ar15barrels
09-17-2012, 10:01 AM
Wow. The gypsy version of chamber chrome.

Yep.

new1911
09-17-2012, 1:09 PM
pardon my lack of knowledge, but is the chrome paint removed w/ brake cleaner the chamber?

liv4spd
09-17-2012, 1:58 PM
I would be absolutely furious if I were in the OP's shoes. Give em hell - no excuse for that kind of fraudulent behavior :6:

snovvman
09-24-2012, 2:48 PM
Well, I returned the upper kit. I sent Blackthrone/Akpartskts an email requesting a call, and it was nearly impossible to speak with someone. I still wanted to give them the benefit of doubt that a mistake was made, and perhaps salvage the deal. In the end, because it was too hard to get someone on the phone, I decided to just get my money back. I figure if it is this hard to talk to someone, what if I have problems later.

I found this site:
http://www.dsarms.com/

I called, "Russ" picked up right away, was knowledgeable and took the time to explain things. I think I'll give them a try...

Thanks for all the help. I would have been stuck with a spray-painted AR without your insights.

Merc1138
09-25-2012, 1:04 AM
Well, I returned the upper kit. I sent Blackthrone/Akpartskts an email requesting a call, and it was nearly impossible to speak with someone. I still wanted to give them the benefit of doubt that a mistake was made, and perhaps salvage the deal. In the end, because it was too hard to get someone on the phone, I decided to just get my money back. I figure if it is this hard to talk to someone, what if I have problems later.

I found this site:
http://www.dsarms.com/

I called, "Russ" picked up right away, was knowledgeable and took the time to explain things. I think I'll give them a try...

Thanks for all the help. I would have been stuck with a spray-painted AR without your insights.

I know you want to believe that they weren't out to screw you, but there is absolutely no way in hell that spraypainting the chamber is just a "mistake". Possibly a stupid prank, but definitely not a mistake.

send it_hit
09-25-2012, 1:47 AM
God it's good to have Randall back.

Amen.

rojocorsa
10-22-2012, 10:58 AM
I know you want to believe that they weren't out to screw you, but there is absolutely no way in hell that spraypainting the chamber is just a "mistake". Possibly a stupid prank, but definitely not a mistake.

This.


And exactly why I only buy know quality parts.