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View Full Version : Replaced my pg stock on Supernova with Mesa Urbino stock - 922r OK?


Ldo
09-15-2012, 1:51 AM
I purchased the Supernova Tactical with pg stock and want to replace the stock with the Mesa Urbino stock for the shorter LOP. Am I still in compliant with 922r?

I am replacing an import part with a US part, but I'm sure the gun still contains more than 10 import parts at this point. Am I overthinking here? I've searched 922r topics here and all are about adding a US component or replacing with an import component.

Thanks ahead for any clarification.

Dantedamean
09-15-2012, 8:01 AM
If the part is US made you should be fine. Ya I did a count of parts when I took my supernova out of the box. I think it was 12. Ether the laws had changed since I last looked up the 922r or the supernova is illegal to import. If it was illegal, I don't think Benelli would be shipping them.

Ldo
09-15-2012, 8:16 AM
If the part is US made you should be fine. Ya I did a count of parts when I took my supernova out of the box. I think it was 12. Ether the laws had changed since I last looked up the 922r or the supernova is illegal to import. If it was illegal, I don't think Benelli would be shipping them.

Thanks for the response. The Mesa stock is US made. However, here's my concern:

The Supernova comes with more than 10 import parts from the factory, but since the government OK'd its importation, it is legal as is. Wording of 922r is "No person shall assemble....," which to me means the end user, not the original manufacturer. So once I start replacing parts, US made or not, I'm "assembling the shotgun," and need to start the part counts.

So, I think I have an illegal shotgun with a replacement stock. :(

Dantedamean
09-15-2012, 8:44 AM
Last time I checked US made parts don't count as a part for the 922r. So if you replace the Italian made pistol grip with an American made one, than you've effectively removed a part from your gun as far as the 922r law is concerned.

People also replace the follower with an American made one so they can add a foreign made part. The follower is the easiest part to change out like that lol

steelcore
09-15-2012, 9:14 AM
I'm confused... does 922r restrict how many imported parts may be replaced? Does someone have a reference for this? I'd like to learn more for the sake of knowing, please

Dantedamean
09-15-2012, 1:26 PM
From my understanding the only parts that matter are those of foreign origin.

http://www.tapco.com/section922r/

I would post this in the general gun section simply to get more replies and better info.

Quiet
09-15-2012, 2:09 PM
Fed 922r is required if you add the following to an imported shotgun.
* 6+ round ammo capacity
* pistol grip
* folding/extending shoulder stock
* flash suppressor/hider
* bayonet lug/bayonet

There are 12 parts in an imported pump-action shotgun.

In order to comply with Fed 922r, you will need to replace 2 of those parts with USA made parts.

applicable parts
Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
Barrels
Bolts
Trigger housings
Triggers
Hammers
Disconnectors
Buttstocks
Forearms, handguards
Magazine bodies
Followers
Floorplates

IMO...
In order to comply and use the stock you want, also replace the forend/pump with a USA made one. With those 2 replaced parts, it will comply with Fed 922r.

elSquid
09-15-2012, 3:26 PM
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922


(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply toŚ

If your Supernova was imported with a pistol gripped stock, and you replaced that pistol gripped stock with another - and done nothing else - have you assembled a shotgun identical to one prohibited from import? Or have you assembled a shotgun that is effectively identical to one that is currently imported?

Another way to look at it: if Benelli bought a bunch of Urbino stocks, shipped them to Italy, added them to newly manufactured Supernovas and tried to import them, would ATF/Customs say "no, you can't import these ones with US-made PG stocks, but your other shotguns with an Italian-made PG stock are fine.".....?

I can't say that I'm an expert on 922(r), but it seems that parts replacement with an essentially identical domestic part shouldn't change the "importability" of a foreign made shotgun.

Now if I'm wrong, somebody please tell me why.

-- Michael

FUBAR
09-16-2012, 1:12 AM
Your fine if you didn't add an extension to increase the capacity over 5. If you did the just get a USA made follower from Nordic or DMW.

CasperSYTFU
09-16-2012, 2:56 PM
I was under the impression that 922r was no longer in effect?
I will try to find the thread.

Dantedamean
09-16-2012, 4:11 PM
Ok this is getting a bit muddied. If its made in the USA it's fine to put on the gun. If it was made out of the country you need to comply with 922r and not have more than 10 parts. Correct?

If this law is no longer in effect that would be amazingly awesome.

FUBAR
09-16-2012, 8:50 PM
Just get a USA made follower and you'll be in compliance. It's only like $10-15. Since you will be in compliance with the stock and follower, get an extended tube from DMW.

Here's my 922r compliant Benelli M2 with a Mesa Tactical Urbino stock, DMW 7+1 extended tube, DMW follower, DMW barrel clamp.

http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad232/PITT5150/DSC08440.jpg

Fherot
09-17-2012, 5:44 AM
There is no 922r bs with shotguns.

Mesa Tactical
09-17-2012, 11:47 AM
922r has nothing to do with replacing parts. It's about importing banned configurations, and configuring imported firearms in banned ways. The parts count simply defines how you can make an imported firearm be viewed as domestic, for purposes of the law.

THAT'S ALL!

So don't worry about the parts count unless you are reconfiguring your imported firearm into a banned set-up.

As elSquid mentioned, if the SuperNova was imported with a pistol grip stock, swapping in a different pistol grip stock does not change its configuration. So 922r does not come into play.

It's questionable whether 922r applies to pump shotguns at all. There has never been a definitive ruling of what configurations are banned as "non-sporting" and what are allowed, and with which firearms. Rulings are made on an ad hoc basis. CasperSYTFU's impression that 922r is no longer in force is based on a misunderstanding of an amendment to one of last year's farm bills that said there could be no more rulings on new imported shotguns this year (a courageous attempt to protect the Saiga 12 from import restrictions long after it was already out of danger; hooray for Congress!).

Anyway, for some examples of when you might need to think about 922r: let's say you want to swap the pistol grip stock on your SuperNova for a collapsible stock. Now you are producing a "less sporting" configuration, and might want to think about 922r (as I said, I have no idea whether the ATF is really regulating imported pump shotguns).

Suppose you increase the magazine capacity of an imported semi-auto shotgun. Now 922r applies, since higher capacity semi-auto magazines have been banned from import. Ditto for putting a collapsing stock on an imported semi-auto shotgun.

Whether private citizens really need to worry about 922r at all is a new and different subject entirely.

Quiet
09-17-2012, 2:11 PM
It's questionable whether 922r applies to pump shotguns at all.

Letter of the law = any imported shotguns.


18 USC 922
(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.

Mesa Tactical
09-18-2012, 6:30 AM
Letter of the law = any imported shotguns.

Oh, I understand what the law says. But given that whether or not someone has to play the 922r game is based on the ATF's determination of whether a firearm is "sporting" or not, in practical terms it's unclear whether pump shotguns are really restricted. In one of two white papers released by the ATF over the last 30 years outlining what "non-sporting" means to them, they referenced the 1994 Federal assault weapon ban, which did not cover pump shotguns.

Has the ATF banned any pump shotgun from import based on its non-sporting configuration? For example, is there any factory configuration of the SuperNova that the ATF has banned from importation? I don't know, but I doubt there has been. If I am right, then the SuperNova wouldn't fall under the 922r umbrella.

Mesa Tactical
09-18-2012, 8:54 AM
If you do a google search for 'minibus shotgun law', or something like that, alot of other forums say that the 922r for shotguns is dead.

It is not dead. The Minibus amendment simply banned the ATF from adding any new shotguns to their import ban during 2012.

On the other hand, there is a school of thought that insists private citizens needn't worry about 922r in any case. There is some merit to that notion, given that private citizens aren't ordinarily charged with 922r violations. It all depends on your personal threshold for lawbreaking.

Dantedamean
09-18-2012, 9:33 AM
It is not dead. The Minibus amendment simply banned the ATF from adding any new shotguns to their import ban during 2012.

On the other hand, there is a school of thought that insists private citizens needn't worry about 922r in any case. There is some merit to that notion, given that private citizens aren't ordinarily charged with 922r violations. It all depends on your personal threshold for lawbreaking.

Ya that was one of the restrictions that Obama openly said he would not listen to.

Ldo
09-18-2012, 11:45 AM
Thanks for all the replies. One thing is certain from all this, the law is confusing and ridiculous.

Just for the heck of it, I wrote a letter to BATF. I'll see what they have to say.

CasperSYTFU
09-18-2012, 3:14 PM
CasperSYTFU's impression that 922r is no longer in force is based on a misunderstanding of an amendment to one of last year's farm bills that said there could be no more rulings on new imported shotguns this year (a courageous attempt to protect the Saiga 12 from import restrictions long after it was already out of danger; hooray for Congress!).

Oh! I see. Thanks for the clarification Mesa.
Much appreciated. (Now hurry up and ship me a 930 Urbino! :D)

Chaozu
09-18-2012, 5:16 PM
How many of you have ever had any of your guns "inspected" by LEO? 922r is bull*****, I doubt any cops even know what that is!

Fherot
09-19-2012, 12:20 AM
BATF didn't reply to me. There's a NRA news article on the successful challenge on the sporting purpose issue on shotguns... I've linked it in a few threads now so just
Look at my statistics in the last M4 thread.

I'm too lazy to keep re-linking it.

Either way, private citizen: dont worry about it. Seriously, buy Mesa Tactical because they make awesome
Products not because you need to.

Also, if you did follow the bogus 922 you can't go by the first paragraph 'any shoygun' because you have to read -all of it-. In a later paragraph it goes on to say any shotgun is a magazine fed shotgun. Then later in document it says a magazine is an ammunition storage blabla for -semi and automatic fire-.

So "any shotgun" isn't that broad after all. You can read the full 922(r) crap if you want.

Trust me though I'm an A-rated law abiding (sleezy gun owning) citizen. When I ordered my Benelli SuperNova I spent a couple weeks researching 922(r) and even emailed Mesa Tactical and others about parts compliance.

If we stop speaking about 922r then there is no 922. Leave that stuff for the companies wanting to import machine guns.