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View Full Version : Can you just PPT the frame?


jrara
09-15-2012, 12:27 AM
Hello All,

I am looking to buy a glock lower from a local PPT sale.

I searched and I see people say that you can ppt the frame with no issues.

I also read people say you can't unless you have some kind of exemption.

I also read that the Handgun safety demo needs to be done on any firearm transfer.

So does it mean I can't PPT just the frame because of the Safety demo?

Cyc Wid It
09-15-2012, 2:35 AM
In theory they can allow you to perform the safe handling demonstration with the exact same model of gun if they have it available.

morrcarr67
09-15-2012, 4:56 AM
In theory they can allow you to perform the safe handling demonstration with the exact same model of gun if they have it available.

^^^^ This

And, talk with the FFL you plan on using to do the PPT. Let them know what you are planning on transferring and see if they say it's cool with them. If they say "No"; go to the next FFL until you get "Yes" as the answer.

CK_32
09-15-2012, 6:39 AM
You should have no problems as far as I know..

And if you have you HSC you shouldn't have to do any demos. Since I got mine I've never had to do one.. But every shop might be different with their policy.

And like said above they can just grabs similar gun to run the test.

Oceanbob
09-15-2012, 6:43 AM
Just borrow a top end for 10 days. Install it on the frame and give it back after the Handgun safety demo on pick up day.

I recently lent a nice Cal Gunner a G20 top for this purpose. He owes me lunch...hahaha..(no hurry)

Glockmeister was having a Frame sale; they send the Frame to our FFL in Southern California; the FFL called me when it arrived. I just drove over with the top end and we slipped it on. When my fellow cal gunner picked up the weapon after the 10 day wait; he just removed the top end and left it for me to pick up later from our FFL. Find an FFL that will work with you. That's important.

:D

Old4eyes
09-15-2012, 8:12 AM
You should have no problems as far as I know..

And if you have you HSC you shouldn't have to do any demos. Since I got mine I've never had to do one.. But every shop might be different with their policy.

And like said above they can just grabs similar gun to run the test.

Having an HSC does not exempt you from the safe handling demonstration.

From the online HSC study guide:

Prior to taking delivery of a handgun, you must successfully perform a safe handling demonstration with the handgun being purchased or acquired. The safe handling demonstration must be performed in the presence of a DOJ Certified Instructor on or after the date the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) is submitted to the DOJ and before the handgun is delivered.

CK_32
09-15-2012, 8:14 AM
Don't remember getting any on my GP100 2 weeks ago..?

Maybe cause its a revolver?

CSACANNONEER
09-15-2012, 8:21 AM
Don't remember getting any on my GP100 2 weeks ago..?

Maybe cause its a revolver?

Nope. You just used a FFL who was too lazy to follow the law.

gatesbox
09-15-2012, 8:24 AM
Nope. You just used a FFL who was too lazy to follow the law.

As if that was a bad thing.......

CK_32
09-15-2012, 8:29 AM
Oh well I know what I'm doing so I honestly could care less.

But for the sake of the law ohhh yea that's right I remember now, I did take it :rolleyes:

zfields
09-15-2012, 8:30 AM
Don't remember getting any on my GP100 2 weeks ago..?

Maybe cause its a revolver?

He didnt follow the law on it.

IIRC CCW's exempt you from it though.

gorenut
09-15-2012, 11:21 AM
Yea, some FFLs are either lazy or just have more sense. When I was collecting Sigs, I bought 4 in a short amount of time. At my 3rd Sig, my FFL was just like "I already know you know what you're doing with these." in a low voice and was like "thank you for just completing the safe handling demonstration" out loud, haha.

CK_32
09-15-2012, 11:28 AM
Yea, some FFLs are either lazy or just have more sense. When I was collecting Sigs, I bought 4 in a short amount of time. At my 3rd Sig, my FFL was just like "I already know you know what you're doing with these." in a low voice and was like "thank you for just completing the safe handling demonstration" out loud, haha.

Yea I have a feeling that's what my dealer did as well..

Was my 4th gun that month from the same shop. And I was ahead of him with the paper work and laid it all out before he even asked for it in order lol

His face was priceless like oh.. I don't think he knew what to do being use to having to explain everything to everyone I threw him off the norm reason he probably forgot or assumed I knew what I was doing.

But I did have to do it for my Glock and when I got my HSC card.

darkest2000
09-15-2012, 4:28 PM
I don't believe the safety demonstration test has to be performed on the actual gun or even the same model firearm. If you've already purchased a few firearms from the same dealer and he already has a bunch of signed safety demonstration sheets it doesn't make sense to have you perform the same thing over and over.

HighLander51
09-15-2012, 4:45 PM
Just borrow a top end for 10 days. Install it on the frame and give it back after the Handgun safety demo on pick up day.


:D

Yea, that worked for me two years ago. But recently I couldn't find any FFL dealer willing to receive a bare frame, even with a top end that I provided. I don't think that works anymore.

Cyc Wid It
09-15-2012, 5:20 PM
I don't believe the safety demonstration test has to be performed on the actual gun or even the same model firearm. If you've already purchased a few firearms from the same dealer and he already has a bunch of signed safety demonstration sheets it doesn't make sense to have you perform the same thing over and over.

That's not what the law says.

1911Luvr
09-15-2012, 5:45 PM
If you transfer a frame only, btw there is a section on the dealer computer program for frame only, then you should have no issues with the PPT. I did this just 5 hours ago myself.

Anchors
09-15-2012, 8:45 PM
It must be performed every time for people with HSCs. I've had FFLs that know me and let me skip it. I'm not going to put them on blast for that...

InGrAM
09-15-2012, 9:57 PM
So, basically you just have to go from FFL to FFL until you find one that will say yes to doing a PPT with only the frame? Am I understanding this correctly?

NorCal Einstein
09-15-2012, 10:44 PM
So, basically you just have to go from FFL to FFL until you find one that will say yes to doing a PPT with only the frame? Am I understanding this correctly?

Yes

InGrAM
09-15-2012, 11:20 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.

lordres
09-15-2012, 11:24 PM
That's weird... I haven't have a handgun safety demo for the last 4 handguns I've picked up... At 4 different FFL's. :S

TakeTheShot
09-16-2012, 12:57 AM
Of the three FFLs I went through to PPT a Glock frame, one said no, second said no, third said no - initially. They all said you have to have a slide on the frame to make it a "gun" with a particular caliber and model (My understanding was that the actual gun is the serialized part, but try arguing that with the ATF). Because Glock frames are interchangeable, they can also be configured for a variety of models and calibers, ie. G17, G22, G34, G35, G17L, recording it on the DROS is a bit tricky, they said.

The third FFL I went to, like I mentioned, initially said no, but after talking to the Seller, whom he knew, finally said yes. ONLY because he knew the Seller and was actually familiar with the frame we were PPT'ing.

On the DROS, there is a space that they recorded saying that the PPT is JUST THE FRAME. Under the line heading "Revolver/Pistol Information", the question "Frame Only" he entered "Yes". In the Comment field, it says "Model 22," although it was entered as:
Make = "GLC"
Model = "22" - because he knew the frame was originally a Glock 22
Caliber = "0000" - no specific caliber

So, technically, you CAN PPT a Glock frame, but getting the FFL to do it is another matter. If the FFL is willing to allow it, you'll still need a slide to perform the safety check. If they have a Glock in stock, they'll usually let you perform the check with their gun - it's the same thing anyway.

OP, if you want to know the FFL I went through, PM me. They asked me not to publicly post their name and location. They are in the San Francisco Bay Area. I can also scan and send you my copy (censored) of my DROS showing the Frame Only on the PPT.

darkest2000
09-16-2012, 12:08 PM
To all those FFLs that said you can't do it, if that's the case, then why does the DROS Form have an option for "Frame only"?