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halfflash
09-14-2012, 12:07 PM
I know this has been gone over, but it still doesn't make sense to me. It seems like circumventing the carry laws is too easy.

With out a CCW, I can still carry an unloaded handgun and ammo, as long as it's in a locked container. I can carry these in a bag where ever I go (so long as it's not a no carry zone), and not break any laws.

Does any one here do this on a regular basis? What if you get stopped by a LEO, are you required to tell them that you are carrying? IF they find some reason to search you, how do you explain to them that it's legal? I'm sure you'd be parting with your gun for a time being.
Hope for peace, train for war scenario. If you have to use your weapon to protect yourself or some one else, (it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6) legally what would happen to you?

I've read http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting several times. But it still doesn't seem to click for me. I would expect a LEO to say something like "well you should have read PC blah blah dash bla. Now turn around and put your hands on your head, felon"

M. D. Van Norman
09-14-2012, 12:12 PM
You wouldn’t be carrying a firearm ready for confrontation per Heller but instead transporting an unloaded firearm as required by law. That’s not circumventing anything.

elSquid
09-14-2012, 12:14 PM
I know this has been gone over, but it still doesn't make sense to me. It seems like circumventing the carry laws is too easy.


Unloaded and in a locked container is too easy? Really?

If so, how are people expected to transport a handgun from their home to a range? Teleportation?

-- Michael

luckyduck
09-14-2012, 12:15 PM
Yeah I don't understand the logic in this topic. What's easy about any of this?

Sure if we had to use a Star Trek particle transporter to get our gun anywhere, that would be hard.

CK_32
09-14-2012, 12:20 PM
Not sure if this is cement law but my cousin has a CCW and got in a car accident not too long ago and had his Glock in his glove box. He was dazed and told the cops all his info was in the glove compartment not thinking about having his gun in there to.

They opened it up and pulled the side arms out and he still didn't get what was going on. Luckily my his wife just pulled up and yelled what they were doing and they finally got to explain he had a CCW.. But for some odd reason he's still going to court about it and it's this huge delema because I guess part of the CCW is you must notify them that you carry for that exact reason..


Not sure about all the details but it's all worked out finally and was actually like a 5 moths court process about it. So even if you are legally required it will be a head ache. So I personally even before all that would notify them I have guns in the car if I did. Only after they asked or said were searching the car..


Which has happened and it was a huge thing of them snickering about how illegal my AR was and them just going by FUD but one gun savvy officer said he knows we're good and said just wait and well be let go and left telling me and friends nice looking guns..

Had 2 of us pulled over going to work from a friends house wih SWAT and about 6 police cars because we had a cleaning party at one friends house and a included over cop was casing a house down the street and saw all of us bringing fun cases into the house...

And that lead to us bein pulled over when trying to leave the neighborhood and having SWAT and the LEO there.. Huge head ache but ended well due to just being respectful and calm.

DRAB_81
09-14-2012, 12:33 PM
You need to go back and read the PC again. IIRC, the only time you can legally carry LUCC is on your way to a lawful use of the firearm (as in going to the range). Heading to the office or grocery store does not lead to a lawful use of the firearm, making LUCC illegal in that context.

unusedusername
09-14-2012, 12:39 PM
You need to go back and read the PC again. IIRC, the only time you can legally carry LUCC is on your way to a lawful use of the firearm (as in going to the range). Heading to the office or grocery store does not lead to a lawful use of the firearm, making LUCC illegal in that context.

Sort of. When carrying on foot, the location requirements apply with a general catch-all of "directly to or from any motor vehicle" Note that a bus, a train, and car are all motor vehicles, and it does not say you are required to enter or own the vehicle.

In the car you can transport "for any lawful purpose", and last time I checked anyways, getting groceries was still lawful. There is no requirement that the lawful purpose involve the firearm being transported.

JMP
09-14-2012, 12:54 PM
You forgot one thing. You will need to ask the badguy for a timeout, so you can unlock your gun and load it.

DRAB_81
09-14-2012, 1:01 PM
Sort of. When carrying on foot, the location requirements apply with a general catch-all of "directly to or from any motor vehicle" Note that a bus, a train, and car are all motor vehicles, and it does not say you are required to enter or own the vehicle.

In the car you can transport a firearm "for any lawful purpose" of that firearm, and last time I checked anyways, getting groceries while carrying a firearm without an LTC was still illegal. There is no requirement that the lawful purpose involve the firearm being transported.

I fixed it for you, and yes it does specify that the purpose involves the firearm being transported. Why would they even bother having a PC if it had nothing to do with the firearm? So you believe the PC just says that you can carry LUCC as long as you're not on your way to murder/rob/rape someone etc?

Rorge Retson
09-14-2012, 1:02 PM
You forgot one thing. You will need to ask the badguy for a timeout, so you can unlock your gun and load it.

This. :90:

1000stars
09-14-2012, 1:21 PM
The whole point of a CCW is to have a loaded gun on your person ready to go.

Anything less than that is not circumventing CCW.

Librarian
09-14-2012, 1:42 PM
I fixed it for you, and yes it does specify that the purpose involves the firearm being transported. Why would they even bother having a PC if it had nothing to do with the firearm? So you believe the PC just says that you can carry LUCC as long as you're not on your way to murder/rob/rape someone etc?

In a vehicle, yes, that's exactly what PC 25610 says. Legal to transport locked, unloaded, anyplace where firearms are not prohibited.

LUCC? Makes my teeth itch; I won't do it, myself.

halfflash
09-14-2012, 1:47 PM
I didn't mean that it was easy to carry. But it's a fairly simple way of carrying a firearm with out having a CCW.
Obviously if I were confronted at knife point, it's still too far awy. But if I were on the street and not being shot at directly, hopefully there would be time to pull it out, unlock, load, and then be protected.

ZombieTactics
09-14-2012, 1:48 PM
The OP's post is understandable in the context that many have been socially conditioned to "seek permission" for any activity they might imagine to be questionable.

We don't require permission to do anything which is not illegal. There are no "loopholes", in any case where something is not expressly prohibited by law. It's not even "following the law", so much as not breaking the law at all in the first place.

lordres
09-14-2012, 1:54 PM
I was under the impression that carrying a loaded weapon was a misdemeanor. Was I wrong?

DRAB_81
09-14-2012, 1:55 PM
In a vehicle, yes, that's exactly what PC 25610 says. Legal to transport locked, unloaded, anyplace where firearms are not prohibited.

LUCC? Makes my teeth itch; I won't do it, myself.

I agree with you, but wouldn't work (depending on policy) or the grocery store be places where firearms are prohibited? Maybe it's too much of a grey area. I wouldn't bother with LUCC either, it just seems illogical.

stix213
09-14-2012, 2:28 PM
I was under the impression that carrying a loaded weapon was a misdemeanor. Was I wrong?

OP specified unloaded

JeremyS
09-14-2012, 2:32 PM
I was under the impression that carrying a loaded weapon was a misdemeanor. Was I wrong?The severity of the charge for carrying a loaded weapon without a permit, concealed or otherwise, can change dramatically depending on the situation -- what you are doing, where you are, whether you have a record, what your intentions are/were, and a million other things and it can be a minor misdemeanor or a serious misdemeanor and it can be a felony and it all depends.

Librarian
09-14-2012, 2:34 PM
I was under the impression that carrying a loaded weapon was a misdemeanor. Was I wrong?

Nope, not wrong; misdemeanor first offense, if nothing complicates the issue.

It's even legal to have a loaded gun in public in some limited circumstances - PC 26045 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/26045.html).

See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Defining_loaded_in_California

5thgen4runner
09-14-2012, 2:38 PM
You forgot one thing. You will need to ask the badguy for a timeout, so you can unlock your gun and load it.

I do that everytime I get robbed. It hasn't worked to my favor... :mad:

Librarian
09-14-2012, 2:39 PM
I agree with you, but wouldn't work (depending on policy) or the grocery store be places where firearms are prohibited? Maybe it's too much of a grey area. I wouldn't bother with LUCC either, it just seems illogical.

'Prohibited', in this case, seems to me to be 'prohibited by law' - college/university campuses, jails and prisons, certain Federal facilities.

There might be separate administrative consequences - for example, loss of employment - but unless there are specified legal sanctions, I'd say firearms were not 'prohibited'.

Lead Waster
09-14-2012, 2:45 PM
You forgot one thing. You will need to ask the badguy for a timeout, so you can unlock your gun and load it.

Exactly, and you must make sure that he knows that he's not allowed to take it from you before you are "ready", otherwise, that's just not fair.


When unloaded open carry was available, it seemed like a good advertisement to BG's with knives to come and get a free gun.

Unloaded = free gun for badguys IMHO.

DRAB_81
09-14-2012, 3:07 PM
'Prohibited', in this case, seems to me to be 'prohibited by law' - college/university campuses, jails and prisons, certain Federal facilities.

There might be separate administrative consequences - for example, loss of employment - but unless there are specified legal sanctions, I'd say firearms were not 'prohibited'.


Ok, thanks for clearing that up. So then LUCC would be legal as long as its left in the vehicle? In that case, it seems like an even more useless activity.