PDA

View Full Version : New to california, "approved list" and pricing questions


Vz58man
09-11-2012, 8:10 PM
Hi guys. Been a member since 2009 when I was living in WA state, just had a few questions since I finally ended up regretfully moving here.

I ended up selling years worth of rare firearms to friends before I moved in december 2009, and there is one piece I wish I still owned.....
an S&W 696.

I stopped by the LGS, the owner said that the 696 is NOT on the "approved list", so I cannot order it from a different state. WOW. I keep learning new rules about this sh*thole (no offense).
it only holds five rounds after all.

Is this true? or was he mistaken?

Also, how much does one of these go for, as far as an FTF sale goes in CA state?
(also wondering how much a model 66/19 would be)

Glad to know there is a website like this here....thanks guys

Invisible_Dave
09-11-2012, 8:29 PM
Look up in the stickies for a post regarding "California Safe handgun roster" it has a link to the roster of approved guns.

The list only applies to new purchases. If you can find a used gun, it is legal to purchase through the PPT process.

SoCal Bob
09-11-2012, 9:35 PM
The list tells FFL's what they can, or can't, sell to the general public, LEO's are exempt as are PPT's. A work around is to find a dealer willing to sell one as a single shot exemption (SSE). Here is the SSE thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=383692

newbee1111
09-11-2012, 9:47 PM
Don't panic, there is a work around. It's just going to cost you money. The Single Shot Exemption applies to pistols. The equivalent for revolvers is the single action exemption. Basically most single action revolvers are exempt from the roster, "The law says that single action revolver that holds 5 or more rounds with a barrel of over 3 inches and an overall length of 7.5 inches is roster exempt. ". So for example all Ruger single action revolvers are roster exempt and you can buy then in CA. So for details you need the right sticky..

How To Import Off Roster S&W to California!! Instructions
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=453716

Vz58man
09-11-2012, 9:55 PM
I dont think ANY gunstores around the Los Angeles area are going to be willing to do the SSE.

Nor do I think they would be willing to do the single action only conversion.....

Im closest to martin b redding, and im %99 certain they would laugh in my face.
Man, I hate this state.

Invisible dave-

I read the list, and apparently what you are saying is that as long as the gun is used, it is exempt from the roster?
But any 696 and 66 model S&W would be used. So that measn they are automatically exempt?

Here is the problem....I dont think any gun store cares about a "used" exemption, because I don't see it explicitly stated in the link. Therefore, California gun dealers are more concerned with selling "on-roster" firearms that are brand new....they dont care about any exemptions....they just look at the list, and if its not on the list, they dont take any chances with losing their license, they just say "It's not on the list".

I was at martin b redding, and a worker told me that the 66 is on the list, but the 696 is NOT on the list. He didnt mention any exception.

I've also noticed on the same sticky, that firearms CAN be brought into California as family heirlooms, even if they are non-roster.....
the exact opposite is stated in other parts of the sticky.
Looks like CA gun laws are just as annoying as the parking nazis in LA county..


BELOW IS AN EXCERPT FROM THE STICKY, WHICH IS IN CONTRADICTION WITH OTHER STATEMENTS MADE ON FORUM

"""Practically, what does it mean when a gun is NOT on the Roster, or a manufacturer lets one fall off the Roster?
California FFL dealers are not allowed to sell it to ‘civilians’ from dealer stock.

Huh? That’s it?
Yes.

LEOs can buy them. Someone can move into California as a legal owner of one or many handguns not on the Roster and bring them into the state. Any California resident can transfer a non-Roster handgun to another California resident using Private Party Transfer. That has to happen at an FFL dealer, but the Roster does not apply to PPT.

Inherited guns and intra-family (within California only) transfers – which do not use FFLs – are exempt from being on the Roster. Out of state to CA intra-family gifts are also exempt from the Roster, even though they must go through an FFL.

Falling off the Roster does not make handguns illegal and certainly does not make them unsafe in any meaningful usage of the term.""""

Vz58man
09-11-2012, 9:58 PM
newbie1111- im panicking.....seriously.
if there is one thing that really gets me angry, its cloudy government beaurocracy, contradicting laws, and government agencies that leave you on hold for 8 hours total in one week...(CA PUC)

thanks for the encouragement though,,,,,I will find one eventually thru FTF even if it takes me years and I end up in calexico

jessegpresley
09-11-2012, 10:54 PM
You know what gets me angry? Whiners. If you hate this state so much then leave. And don't tell me you can't. Hearing all this whining about Ca gun laws is tiresome and annoying

DCF
09-11-2012, 11:43 PM
You know what gets me angry? Whiners. If you hate this state so much then leave. And don't tell me you can't. Hearing all this whining about Ca gun laws is tiresome and annoying

Why are you whining to the OP then? He is new to CA gun law and I can't blame him for not understanding the ridiculous CA gun laws. He is trying to understand this nonsense and if you can't help him out, please don't post.

Shapes And Colors
09-11-2012, 11:52 PM
You know what gets me angry? Whiners. If you hate this state so much then leave. And don't tell me you can't. Hearing all this whining about Ca gun laws is tiresome and annoying

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj498/ShapesAndColors/3d7e9449213978d5a713832aa75b7900.jpg

stix213
09-12-2012, 1:49 AM
Whenever I want something off roster I just keep watching the WTS ads here. Eventually what you are looking for will pop up.

CnCFunFactory
09-12-2012, 1:53 AM
You know what gets me angry? Whiners. If you hate this state so much then leave. And don't tell me you can't. Hearing all this whining about Ca gun laws is tiresome and annoying

Yet another warm and fuzzy welcome to the CALGUNS community....:rolleyes:

Maddawg46
09-12-2012, 4:07 AM
Don't bother calling the DOJ Firearms division. If you ask them about the single shot exemption the answer you will receive is " The attourney general has no opinion on this matter". And if you rephrase the question you will get the same answer exactly!

ADROCK
09-12-2012, 5:19 AM
An extension of OP's question.... If someone sells an off roster gun to a CA pawn shop, can that pawn shop turn around and re sell it in their shop to a CA resident?

keenkeen
09-12-2012, 6:30 AM
An extension of OP's question.... If someone sells an off roster gun to a CA pawn shop, can that pawn shop turn around and re sell it in their shop to a CA resident?

What matters is not "new" vs. "used"...

Who owns the gun is the real question, if the FFL owns the guns than the roster applies. If a private party owns the gun (PPT, or a consignment at an FFL) than the roster does not apply.

So in your example above the roster would apply and the pawn shop would need to sell to an exempt person, do an SSE, or sell it outside of the state.

Renaissance Redneck
09-12-2012, 6:48 AM
We have some nice shops here in the San Joaquin Valley that do "single shot exemption" (SSE) sales. You buy the gun, then convert it back to its original state (no longer single shot); easy. Just have to ask the individual dealers if they will do it.

Give Breco (Clovis) or PRK Arms (Fresno) a call, and see what they might be able to do for you. No promises, but I can get at least a few off-roster handguns through them.

Invisible_Dave
09-12-2012, 9:25 AM
What matters is not "new" vs. "used"...

Who owns the gun is the real question, if the FFL owns the guns than the roster applies. If a private party owns the gun (PPT, or a consignment at an FFL) than the roster does not apply.

So in your example above the roster would apply and the pawn shop would need to sell to an exempt person, do an SSE, or sell it outside of the state.

I misspoke out of laziness (typing on iPad with my cousins 2 year old running around). The list will not apply to private parties selling their gun to another private party. Check out gunbroker or other sales sight and see if you can find one being sold by someone looking for something different.

Munk
09-12-2012, 9:54 AM
What matters is not "new" vs. "used"...

Who owns the gun is the real question, if the FFL owns the guns than the roster applies. If a private party owns the gun (PPT, or a consignment at an FFL) than the roster does not apply.

So in your example above the roster would apply and the pawn shop would need to sell to an exempt person, do an SSE, or sell it outside of the state.

To clarify:

In california, there is a specific type of transaction called a Private Party Transfer (PPT), which is characterized as being a Face-to-face transaction between two CA residents at an FFL-holder's store. This type of transaction has a maximum fee of $35 (25 to the state and up to 10 to the store). PPT's also get to ignore the roster.

Other transfers are just dealer transfers, and have no cap on fees. They also have to obey the roster, even if the item is used. This applies even if it's a private party in-state selling it to you (but not via PPT), a private party out of state, or a gunstore in-state that's local, or non-local, or out of state.

Vz58man
09-12-2012, 10:29 AM
Thanks for all the input guys....

I was frustrated because I'd discovered something even more annoying than the AWB and mag-cap restrictions.....the "Roster".

Anyhow, again, I appreciate the help, and feel that the CA community must be a tighter one thing as how we all have to deal with these rediculous laws.

Just wondering- Can an out of state party transfer a firearm to a CA FFL, on consignment, and then a private citizen buy it through consignment at that FFL/LGS?
That would become a PPT.....essentially. Just not FTF. (given the ownership was always PPT)

Lots of little loopholes and stuff to wade through I'm seeing.

Also, can anyone clarify if the "Interstate Family Heirloom/Gift" exemption for off roster handguns is accurate? If so....case closed. Thats easy.

newbee1111
09-12-2012, 10:31 AM
Others have been saying this but to sum up, here are some ways you can get your 696:

1) Find a private person here in CA that is willing to sell you one. Private transfers are exempt from the roster.

2) Do you have a parent or a child that lives out of state? Gifts from parents or children (or in some cases grandparents or grandchildren) are roster exempt. The gun still needs to be transferred through a CA FFL so there are some fees to be paid.

3) Find a store that will do the single action conversion. You might have to drive a bit.

Cyc Wid It
09-12-2012, 2:01 PM
No. PPT's must be between California citizens. Please read the Calguns wiki, it answers all of your questions. Not every store is familiar with intrafamilial transfers as they are relatively uncommon, so check first.

keenkeen
09-12-2012, 2:09 PM
To clarify:

In california, there is a specific type of transaction called a Private Party Transfer (PPT), which is characterized as being a Face-to-face transaction between two CA residents at an FFL-holder's store. This type of transaction has a maximum fee of $35 (25 to the state and up to 10 to the store). PPT's also get to ignore the roster.

Other transfers are just dealer transfers, and have no cap on fees. They also have to obey the roster, even if the item is used. This applies even if it's a private party in-state selling it to you (but not via PPT), a private party out of state, or a gunstore in-state that's local, or non-local, or out of state.

Don't forget about consignments...They do not involve a Face-to-face transaction per se, but they can still be roster exempt.

Vz58man
09-12-2012, 2:23 PM
Very confusing. SO, consignments are only valid between CA residents, and interstate intra-familial transfers are legal however most gun stores probably won't do them, same story with the SSE....

Looks like my best bet is to wait for a CA resident....gives me some time to save money up though. Thanks for all the help guys!

Vz58man
09-12-2012, 2:24 PM
In the mean time the 66 IS on the roster.....:)

newbee1111
09-12-2012, 4:15 PM
The inter-familial transfer is probably the surest thing if you have family out of state. There is an FFL forum here on calguns you could probably ask there to find someone close to you that would be willing to do the transfer.