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View Full Version : 1911s suck...part 2


jcaoloveshine
09-10-2012, 9:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYEd-3iy4QM&feature=g-u-u

Very interesting that he sat down and talked with Wilson Combat about it.

I agree with him on that front...1911s need special attention during manufacturing and diligence in ownership. Good video.

Also...definitely some nice eye candy in there :D

MiddleKingdom
09-10-2012, 9:51 PM
Yes, it was interesting. Some don't care for Yeager, but if the info is useful I'll pay attention.

skyscraper
09-10-2012, 9:56 PM
Chuck Liddel is still grasping for fame eh?

jcaoloveshine
09-10-2012, 10:01 PM
Normally I'm not a big fan of his macho man personality, but at least here WC does most of the talking. Some good points and always cool to get an inside look at a good shop.

NorCal Einstein
09-10-2012, 10:10 PM
This was more of a 18 minute video promoting Wilson than anything else. If you're going to do that, at least show me more than (2) 1911s and maybe a peak into the gunsmiths area.

SilverTauron
09-10-2012, 10:40 PM
Sales Director of Wilson Combat meets James Yeager to discuss flaws on the 1911.Hmn.

What does Wilson Combat sell , for the most part? They make great 1911s, but ill bet their most common sales are accessories and parts.Ill also bet they make more money in profit margins from selling safeties, parts, and slide locks than they do selling complete guns.

Those points established, wonders of all wonders that a 1911 parts maker and a tactical training instructor who builds notoriety pointing out 1911 problems meet for their mutual gain.

As far as I'm concerned the entire debate is an example in irrelevant ,mall ninja intellectual masturbation. 90% of gun owners wont run 5000 rounds through their gun in 5 years. Most citizens who buy guns for defense use them at the state-mandated training range, and then promptly stick them in their nightstands or holsters never to be shot again in the same month. The people who care enough about their guns to research things like we do are in the very slim minority of gun owners in America. For most of the millions of people who own weapons in America, they run 50 rounds through their Glocks, XD's, Berettas, and 1911s by shooting at dad's old fridge at 7 yards every six months and call it good.


Most of us aren't D-boys or members of USN's DevGru. The typical scumbag uses a firearm for intimidation, not for intentional attack. Even in the latter situation most hoods don't know squat about shooting, and the ones that do know better than to precipitate a gunfight in someone's house at 2AM. As soon as the bad guy knows his target has any weapon, they're making tracks for the nearest way out.

Instead of focusing on "tactical" and "high-speed-high-reliability-drop-in-scalding-hot-lava-and-still-works-reliability" when the typical CCW'er will live their entire lifetime without ever drawing their gun or jumping out of an airplane in some desert war zone , perhaps the debate should change to the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Ah,right,almost forgot. You can't make filthy money empowering people how to properly shoot a gun,without trying to sell a reason to buy excess crap that only distracts your clientele from the central point of hitting the doggone target.

1911Luvr
09-10-2012, 10:48 PM
Most citizens who buy guns for defense use them at the state-mandated training range, and then promptly stick them in their nightstands or holsters never to be shot again in the same month.

This is so true for the average self defense firearm owner. I doubt my father has more than 75 rounds through is S&W 586 purchased back in the 80's.

gorenut
09-10-2012, 11:03 PM
This was more of a 18 minute video promoting Wilson than anything else. If you're going to do that, at least show me more than (2) 1911s and maybe a peak into the gunsmiths area.

Pretty much my thought. Disappointed at first that he wasn't pissing off more 1911 fanboys (I like 1911s a lot, but I just find it amusing when fanboys overreact to differing views), then dually disappointed that once I figured out this is almost more of a company promo that they didn't show more around the shop and guns.

InGrAM
09-10-2012, 11:04 PM
If Bill doesn't have time for this assclown... Video needed more 1911's and some shots of the smiths. Can I please have the time back that I spent watching this?

I hate videos that billboard the idea that only hand fitted, $2500+ 1911's will work reliably. It just puts poor information into idiots minds on the interweb. Then those idiots post the same idiotic things about 1911's all over forums.

SilverTauron
09-10-2012, 11:16 PM
If Bill doesn't have time for this assclown... Video needed more 1911's and some shots of the smiths. Can I please have the time back that I spent watching this?

I hate videos that billboard the idea that only hand fitted, $2500+ 1911's will work reliably. It just puts poor information into idiots minds on the interweb. Then those idiots post the same idiotic things about 1911's all over forums.

Indeed.

Whats ironic about my own experience with 1911s, is that the only one ive seen consistently fail in person was a Nighthawk Custom model.

RIA 1911 Tactical-no failures with good grade mags.
Taurus PT1911-no failures with good grade mags.
Remington 1911 R1-no failures with good grade mags.

Nighthawk Custom that I rented, the very first 1911 I ever shot-consistent failure to return to battery after a fresh magazine. I was forced to slingshot the slide in order to chamber a round. Its a rental gun which looked like the last time it got cleaned was before Obama's term, but there you have it.

I realize this is just a sample of one, but it puts the conventional wisdom on its head regarding 1911s needing expensive work to be reliable. There's two videos on youtube which puts that old myth to rest.

FshMCKkfsW4

Gx7HYgTWAsg

Bug Splat
09-10-2012, 11:47 PM
Gx7HYgTWAsg

Why is he using his support hand to pull the trigger?

zfields
09-10-2012, 11:58 PM
This was more of a 18 minute video promoting Wilson than anything else. If you're going to do that, at least show me more than (2) 1911s and maybe a peak into the gunsmiths area.

Only watched about the first 10 minutes, but it didn't seem that much of a promo video to me.

InGrAM
09-10-2012, 11:59 PM
Why is he using his support hand to pull the trigger?

"Only in ta pillapeens!" :rolleyes:

bubbapug1
09-11-2012, 12:06 AM
Sales Director of Wilson Combat meets James Yeager to discuss flaws on the 1911.Hmn.

What does Wilson Combat sell , for the most part? They make great 1911s, but ill bet their most common sales are accessories and parts.Ill also bet they make more money in profit margins from selling safeties, parts, and slide locks than they do selling complete guns.

Those points established, wonders of all wonders that a 1911 parts maker and a tactical training instructor who builds notoriety pointing out 1911 problems meet for their mutual gain.

As far as I'm concerned the entire debate is an example in irrelevant ,mall ninja intellectual masturbation. 90% of gun owners wont run 5000 rounds through their gun in 5 years. Most citizens who buy guns for defense use them at the state-mandated training range, and then promptly stick them in their nightstands or holsters never to be shot again in the same month. The people who care enough about their guns to research things like we do are in the very slim minority of gun owners in America. For most of the millions of people who own weapons in America, they run 50 rounds through their Glocks, XD's, Berettas, and 1911s by shooting at dad's old fridge at 7 yards every six months and call it good.


Most of us aren't D-boys or members of USN's DevGru. The typical scumbag uses a firearm for intimidation, not for intentional attack. Even in the latter situation most hoods don't know squat about shooting, and the ones that do know better than to precipitate a gunfight in someone's house at 2AM. As soon as the bad guy knows his target has any weapon, they're making tracks for the nearest way out.

Instead of focusing on "tactical" and "high-speed-high-reliability-drop-in-scalding-hot-lava-and-still-works-reliability" when the typical CCW'er will live their entire lifetime without ever drawing their gun or jumping out of an airplane in some desert war zone , perhaps the debate should change to the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Ah,right,almost forgot. You can't make filthy money empowering people how to properly shoot a gun,without trying to sell a reason to buy excess crap that only distracts your clientele from the central point of hitting the doggone target.

excellent post

jessegpresley
09-11-2012, 1:16 AM
When you post things about James Yeager, you're allowing him to manipulate you and do his promoting for him. Ignore him and he goes away.

INFAMOUS762X39
09-11-2012, 1:30 AM
Why is he using his support hand to pull the trigger?

Seriously, he might as well be practicing bump fire.

Edit: Forgot to mention I immediately closed the OP's Video when I saw Jame's snatch beard and Wilson Wombat's fat belly. :rolleyes:

POINTMANDDT
09-11-2012, 7:04 AM
Nice video, I couldn't believe what this Wilson combat director was saying about 1911's. I mean I knew there was truth to it, but I couldn't believe he acknowledge them. One of the biggest things I agree with is that, " 1911 owners invest their ego into their gun". But, I think I invest my ego into my Glock too, not its looks of course or even cost, but it's reliability. What I gather from the video is that, if you want to have a reliable 1911 you need to buy a quality 1911 and know how to maintain and tune it every once in a while. Most people don't, which is why you hear about the problems so offend. That and there are just some many makers of this platform. But even the Wilson guy said their pistols will have to be maintained offend to assure reliability.

Man I bet the 1911 forums are scrambling to come up with excuses about this guy. I hope their egos don't get in the way lol:p

fullspeed1
09-11-2012, 7:24 AM
Like Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn both said, if you have a choice between a 1911 and HK45, and you pick a 1911, "You must be F***ing brain dead." Product plug or not, these guys are premiere 1911 pistolsmiths/users, Enough said.

NYT
09-11-2012, 7:59 AM
is the 1911 the best choice for a combat side arm? no, the glock, hk or sig are light years beyond it.

is it an absolute work or art and as gorgeous as a Hawaiian sunset? yes, yes it is.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

fullspeed1
09-11-2012, 8:02 AM
is the 1911 the best choice for a combat side arm? no, the glock, hk or sig are light years beyond it.

is it an absolute work or art and as gorgeous as a Hawaiian sunset? yes, yes it is.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I agree, 1911's are sweet shooter's.

hatidua
09-11-2012, 8:07 AM
As far as I'm concerned the entire debate is an example in irrelevant ,mall ninja intellectual masturbation.

indeed

DRAB_81
09-11-2012, 8:16 AM
Like Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn both said, if you have a choice between a 1911 and HK45, and you pick a 1911, "You must be F***ing brain dead." Product plug or not, these guys are premiere 1911 pistolsmiths/users, Enough said.

This deserves to be quoted & re-emphasized.

POINTMANDDT
09-11-2012, 9:12 AM
is the 1911 the best choice for a combat side arm? no, the glock, hk or sig are light years beyond it.

is it an absolute work or art and as gorgeous as a Hawaiian sunset? yes, yes it is.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

^^^^^^:iagree: and they are fun to shoot !!

Merc1138
09-11-2012, 9:22 AM
Gx7HYgTWAsg

Umm, what was that at 2:31? and 4:00? I'm not going to sit and watch the whole video, I was just flipping through it and saw that. I'm not saying that Taurus' are pieces of crap or something, but to have multiple malfunctions in a torture test type of video doesn't really prove much of anything. I only even saw the 4:00 malfunction because I left the video playing as I was typing this post(after checking back for the time on the first malfunction I had seen) and looked back at the other monitor with the video running because it didn't sound right.

Did it again at 4:11...

That's not showing me how reliable it is...

edit: And again at 4:50 as I unpaused the video after hitting the submit button for this post. Were you trying to demonstrate that a Taurus 1911 can't work right by posting this video or something?

edit again: Ok, apparently it was Taurus and not RIA. Still a piece of crap as demonstrated by the video though.

SilverTauron
09-11-2012, 9:39 AM
This deserves to be quoted & re-emphasized.

Nothing against the hallowed experience of the guys above, but I disagree.

If your job is akin to theirs-meaning your day job is travelling to foreign countries where your very presence is illegal , they're absolutely right. Its difficult to find a gunsmithy in a non-permissive environment, and an equipment failure as a Delta operator can not only result in the user getting dead but a failed mission as well.

Fortunately for us proles, being an IT specialist or office drone in America is hardly that demanding.The job of defending yourself from a gang banger is completely different from the job of a Delta operator toting a pistol in Indian country under cover. A D-boy stands a good chance of actually using his sidearm to put down a bad guy, whereas in all likelihood my 1911 won't be shooting at anything but paper targets until the day I die. Its also worthy to note that when a Delta operator shoots someone there wont be a Grand Jury convened after the fact.

Just because a gun is recommended by the elite operators does not make it the best choice for civil defense, as the job of personal defense and carrying a gun for king and country are two entirely different duty situations.

zfields
09-11-2012, 9:43 AM
Umm, what was that at 2:31? and 4:00? I'm not going to sit and watch the whole video, I was just flipping through it and saw that. I'm not saying that RIAs are pieces of crap or something, but to have multiple malfunctions in a torture test type of video doesn't really prove much of anything. I only even saw the 4:00 malfunction because I left the video playing as I was typing this post(after checking back for the time on the first malfunction I had seen) and looked back at the other monitor with the video running because it didn't sound right.

Did it again at 4:11...

That's not showing me how reliable it is...

edit: And again at 4:50 as I unpaused the video after hitting the submit button for this post. Were you trying to demonstrate that an RIA 1911 can't work right by posting this video or something?


That video is for a taurus...


The one at 4:00 almost looks like he had a case blowout, pretty large plume of smoke from the chamber.

ap3572001
09-11-2012, 9:44 AM
I carry Glock. 40 on/off duty. Sometimes I would carry a three inch. 357 revolver. But when I go target shooting bulls eye style , in my shooting box You will find a Smith and Wesson model 41 and a custom 1911 .:) Its been that way since the early 80's.

InGrAM
09-11-2012, 9:56 AM
How did I know there was going to be the very same internet idiots posting in this thread as I stated above..... :sleeping: The interweb is getting so old with its inexperienced, "tacticool", wannabe mall ninjas.

Anyone can see that this is a video plug for the Wilson brand $2500+ 1911s. If you can't... then you are blind, def and dumb.

DRAB_81
09-11-2012, 9:58 AM
Nothing against the hallowed experience of the guys above, but I disagree.

If your job is akin to theirs-meaning your day job is travelling to foreign countries where your very presence is illegal , they're absolutely right. Its difficult to find a gunsmithy in a non-permissive environment, and an equipment failure as a Delta operator can not only result in the user getting dead but a failed mission as well.

Fortunately for us proles, being an IT specialist or office drone in America is hardly that demanding.The job of defending yourself from a gang banger is completely different from the job of a Delta operator toting a pistol in Indian country under cover. A D-boy stands a good chance of actually using his sidearm to put down a bad guy, whereas in all likelihood my 1911 won't be shooting at anything but paper targets until the day I die. Its also worthy to note that when a Delta operator shoots someone there wont be a Grand Jury convened after the fact.

Just because a gun is recommended by the elite operators does not make it the best choice for civil defense, as the job of personal defense and carrying a gun for king and country are two entirely different duty situations.



I other words, if you're not a "D-Boy", you don't need to concern yourself with how reliable/unreliable your SD gun is. There's a One in a Billion chance you'll ever have to defend yourself with it, so it doesn't matter. If it works okay during the 50rds a guy puts through it every year, it'll be good to go when he needs it most.


.

Merc1138
09-11-2012, 10:15 AM
That video is for a taurus...


The one at 4:00 almost looks like he had a case blowout, pretty large plume of smoke from the chamber.

Fine, a Taurus then. Doesn't matter in the end really. The gun malfunctioned a bunch of times, and the video does nothing but show that it's unreliable.

POLICESTATE
09-11-2012, 10:25 AM
is the 1911 the best choice for a combat side arm? no, the glock, hk or sig are light years beyond it.

is it an absolute work or art and as gorgeous as a Hawaiian sunset? yes, yes it is.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Why is the 1911 not the best choice for a combat side arm? Why are the Glock, an HK or Sig light years beyond it?

I've shot all these guns, owned a Sig and was convinced it was the best sidearm until I got a 1911. A year later I sold my Sig.

The issue is subjective. I don't think you can say any one gun is the perfect one-size-fits-all sidearm. I really don't.

I prefer the 1911, now in lieu of that I would go with a Sig next, but I wouldn't turn down an HK either. I don't like Glocks, I've shot several models over the years in 9mm, 40 and 45 and without exception I don't like the feel, I don't like the performance. Sure I suppose if I put enough time and rounds through one I would get pretty good with it, but I still don't like the gun.

In my opinion, the 1911 is the ideal combat handgun.

Lead Waster
09-11-2012, 10:51 AM
Why is he using his support hand to pull the trigger?

I'm guessing that as a serious competitor, he didn't want to wear out his trigger finger on this test.

Also, they have a lot of beer (or soda) there!

Lead Waster
09-11-2012, 10:58 AM
Nice video, I couldn't believe what this Wilson combat director was saying about 1911's. I mean I knew there was truth to it, but I couldn't believe he acknowledge them. One of the biggest things I agree with is that, " 1911 owners invest their ego into their gun". But, I think I invest my ego into my Glock too, not its looks of course or even cost, but it's reliability. What I gather from the video is that, if you want to have a reliable 1911 you need to buy a quality 1911 and know how to maintain and tune it every once in a while. Most people don't, which is why you hear about the problems so offend. That and there are just some many makers of this platform. But even the Wilson guy said their pistols will have to be maintained offend to assure reliability.

Man I bet the 1911 forums are scrambling to come up with excuses about this guy. I hope their egos don't get in the way lol:p

I think the ego part is this "I did some research (or didn't) and I committed hard cash to a not-inexpensive item, it better have been a good choice" so we want validation that we chose correctly. Weird, I probably fall into this too, but I am not brand/design loyal. I have Glocks and a 1911, I like both, they are different animals. And also, I love my CZs more! But I'm not going out on a limb to defend any brand or design.

Hey, I didn't design the guns or build them or anything, I just bought them, I realistically have zero ego investment in them beyond the cash I spent on them.

But I also understand how personal a gun can be as well, especially if you customize it to yourself with nice grips and the sights that you like.

Lead Waster
09-11-2012, 11:09 AM
... A D-boy stands a good chance of actually using his sidearm to put down a bad guy, whereas in all likelihood my 1911 won't be shooting at anything but paper targets until the day I die. I....

You should get to a USPSA match then and have some real fun! Even practice days are great, you get to shoot steel "poppers" and plate racks, etc.
Completely off topic, but I want to addict as many people as I can to USPSA!

But aside from that, my guns will only shoot paper, steel and clay pigeons (well, not with a 1911 :p)

If you have guns, you should find a "sport" for it, it adds like 100% more fun to gun ownership. It's like have a **** an only peeing with it! :p

Lead Waster
09-11-2012, 11:13 AM
How did I know there was going to be the very same internet idiots posting in this thread as I stated above..... :sleeping: The interweb is getting so old with its inexperienced, "tacticool", wannabe mall ninjas.

Anyone can see that this is a video plug for the Wilson brand $2500+ 1911s. If you can't... then you are blind, def and dumb.

And it works. After I watched (on the side while watching TV) this video, I went to check out how my Wilson Combats are (Also, my friend had been telling me how nice they were, even compared to Les Baers). I imediately realized I will never own one as the price was way out of my comfort zone!


Oh and not all guns are good for combat/HD, but are more for range fun. I have a Ruger 22/45 and it would be the last pistol in my safe to come out for any sort of defensive role! I also have a PS3 and an Xbox that I wouldn't use for compiling my C++ apps at work either. :p

JeremyS
09-11-2012, 12:57 PM
That video is for a taurus...


The one at 4:00 almost looks like he had a case blowout, pretty large plume of smoke from the chamber.Not trying to defend the gun or anything (really don't care), but the failures I saw looked like bum rounds. They're shooting reloads and on some of those FTF he cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger a couple times before ejecting the unfired round. Considering the gun continued firing other rounds after this happened a few times, I think there were duds in there that just didn't go off. Plus what zfields mentioned. ...the ammo sucked for sure... whether the gun did as well... who knows/cares.

Press Check
09-11-2012, 1:24 PM
Seriously, James Yeager is such a tool.

SilverTauron
09-11-2012, 1:28 PM
I other words, if you're not a "D-Boy", you don't need to concern yourself with how reliable/unreliable your SD gun is. There's a One in a Billion chance you'll ever have to defend yourself with it, so it doesn't matter. If it works okay during the 50rds a guy puts through it every year, it'll be good to go when he needs it most.


.

Not necessarily. Then again, a 10,000 round torture test only proves that THAT particular gun is capable of doing it. Your Glock pistol may not be that tough-perhaps it will break at round 500 instead of round 10,000 due to a mass production glitch. Perhaps every Glock ever made is capable of 10,000 round reliability except yours-and perhaps the gun tested is one of the 'duds' and everyone else's piece will last to 20,000 rounds.

The only way to know, short of a crystal ball, is to actually shoot that much and see what happens. At the end of the day, all those tests do is serve to prop up the egos of gun owners who already have a pre-disposed favor of a certain brand.

Insofar as civilian self defense goes, a .22LR and 1000 rounds of practice will do more favors for the typical citizen's ability to defend themselves than some whiz-bang tactical HK/Glock/Sig wunderpistol that can survive an airplane jump without breaking. Except selling people .22LR handguns and a pile of practice ammo won't do much for a gun company or accessory firm's income statement.

fullspeed1
09-11-2012, 1:40 PM
So many sensitive people in here. It's like your ego's are getting bashed. I respect James Yeager and other instructors that teach. There is a common denominator amongst the majority of these instructors, and that is a plastic pistol. Simple enough, can't argue with that...And despite what the majority of them say, I am saving up for a Les Baer because they are wonderful pistols and I cannot deny the fact that a 1911 is an enjoyable platform to shoot;)

DRAB_81
09-11-2012, 2:06 PM
Not necessarily. Then again, a 10,000 round torture test only proves that THAT particular gun is capable of doing it. Your Glock pistol may not be that tough-perhaps it will break at round 500 instead of round 10,000 due to a mass production glitch. Perhaps every Glock ever made is capable of 10,000 round reliability except yours-and perhaps the gun tested is one of the 'duds' and everyone else's piece will last to 20,000 rounds.

The only way to know, short of a crystal ball, is to actually shoot that much and see what happens. At the end of the day, all those tests do is serve to prop up the egos of gun owners who already have a pre-disposed favor of a certain brand.

Insofar as civilian self defense goes, a .22LR and 1000 rounds of practice will do more favors for the typical citizen's ability to defend themselves than some whiz-bang tactical HK/Glock/Sig wunderpistol that can survive an airplane jump without breaking. Except selling people .22LR handguns and a pile of practice ammo won't do much for a gun company or accessory firm's income statement.

You must have missed my blatant sarcasm.

There's nothing "whiz-bang" about a Glock. They're about as Vanilla as it gets, and that's why people either love them or hate them. My round count for this year is well over 5k (Mostly through my GEN 4 G17, but that includes several other Glocks), and it's been a slow year. If I'm going to trust my life to ANY firearm (and the lives of my wife & kids), you better believe I'm going to test it. I have never bought into any YouTube "torture test" for any gun, so I don't know where you're going with that. I trust guns because I've put thousands of rounds through them, not because the interweb says I should. Rapid fire, slow fire, close range, long range, shooting on the move, shooting off balance, shooting from retention, strong hand only, weak hand only, etc etc etc. There's no 100% guarantee anyone's gun won't fail when they need it most, but I'll continue to do my part to hold up my end of the deal.

InGrAM
09-11-2012, 2:17 PM
And it works. After I watched (on the side while watching TV) this video, I went to check out how my Wilson Combats are (Also, my friend had been telling me how nice they were, even compared to Les Baers). I imediately realized I will never own one as the price was way out of my comfort zone!


Oh and not all guns are good for combat/HD, but are more for range fun. I have a Ruger 22/45 and it would be the last pistol in my safe to come out for any sort of defensive role! I also have a PS3 and an Xbox that I wouldn't use for compiling my C++ apps at work either. :p

Are you suggesting that the 1911 platform is "more for range fun." And not "good" for HD/Combat?

Lead Waster
09-11-2012, 2:22 PM
You must have missed my blatant sarcasm.

There's nothing "whiz-bang" about a Glock. They're about as Vanilla as it gets, and that's why people either love them or hate them. My round count for this year is well over 5k (Mostly through my GEN 4 G17, but that includes several other Glocks), and it's been a slow year. If I'm going to trust my life to ANY firearm (and the lives of my wife & kids), you better believe I'm going to test it. I have never bought into any YouTube "torture test" for any gun, so I don't know where you're going with that. I trust guns because I've put thousands of rounds through them, not because the interweb says I should. Rapid fire, slow fire, close range, long range, shooting on the move, shooting off balance, shooting from retention, strong hand only, weak hand only, etc etc etc. There's no 100% guarantee anyone's gun won't fail when they need it most, but I'll continue to do my part to hold up my end of the deal.

So bottom line ... have more than one gun! :p

Shapes And Colors
09-11-2012, 2:44 PM
I love reading these kinds of threads. You have two sides that usually participate: those who believe the 1911 is a fine sidearm for civilian carry, and those that believe that the second the polymer pistol was invented, all 1911's suddenly broke and became range toys. If someone defends the 1911, it means their ego is tied up to the gun, but somehow the person saying the polymer pistols are the only choice don't have their egos tied up to those guns. Fascinating, really. The fact of the matter is this, the 1911 was our standard military combat sidearm for 74 years, and not because it was a jam-o-matic pile of junk.

My grandfather carried one for 27 years. Working in a pawn shop, he had to use it in self defense twice. It never failed him. It was his combat firearm that he trusted with his life, and it saved it twice. I suppose he was just a silly man with an inflated ego too.

Glocks/XD's/M&P's/H&K's are excellent pistols too, no doubt about that, but just because they work well does not mean they're the only ones that do. It does not mean they are the only choice out there, and gun ownership doesn't mean you have to invest your pride in a certain type of one. Pick what you want, shoot it, and stick with it if it works for you.

DannyInSoCal
09-11-2012, 3:02 PM
If Bill doesn't have time for this assclown... Video needed more 1911's and some shots of the smiths. Can I please have the time back that I spent watching this?

I hate videos that billboard the idea that only hand fitted, $2500+ 1911's will work reliably. It just puts poor information into idiots minds on the interweb. Then those idiots post the same idiotic things about 1911's all over forums.

My RIA 6" long slide Tactical/Match hybrid is the most accurate 1911 I've ever shot -

And I've shot plenty of high dollar 1911 sidearms....

DRAB_81
09-11-2012, 3:12 PM
So bottom line ... have more than one gun! :p

I agree. But the real bottom line is, no matter what system/platform you choose, get out and shoot it. Develop your opinion with experience & trigger time, not from how a gun feels at the counter or what other people say on the Internet. You might confirm what you initially thought to be true, but you may also prove yourself wrong.

wash
09-11-2012, 3:47 PM
I've got a Glock 26 that doesn't seem to care if I clean it or not, it just keeps going and I'm the second owner, it was a range gun...

As reliable as it is and even pretty accurate, if I want to hit a target, I do better with a nice 1911. I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 1911 if I had a LTC unless it was due to it's size.

If I'm expecting to use a gun for self defense, I would treat it a lot better than my Glock and if I ever needed it, it would be ready and able to do the job.

RED VASQUEZ
09-11-2012, 4:19 PM
I agree. But the real bottom line is, no matter what system/platform you choose, get out and shoot it. Develop your opinion with experience & trigger time, not from how a gun feels at the counter or what other people say on the Internet. You might confirm what you initially thought to be true, but you may also prove yourself wrong.

Ditto. In a fight the shooter is going to be the decisive factor, not the gun. Things like grip angle, trigger pull, the whole 9 vs .40 vs .45 argument and what custom doo-dads you have don't matter when someone is shooting back at you.

And all guns malfunction, I don't care what brand, occasionally a lemon slips through.

I bet James left Wilson with a shiny new 1911.:D

InGrAM
09-11-2012, 4:59 PM
My RIA 6" long slide Tactical/Match hybrid is the most accurate 1911 I've ever shot -

And I've shot plenty of high dollar 1911 sidearms....

I like my RIA as well. It is not the most accurate, actually it is the least accurate 1911 I own but I still like it a lot.

But what was your point?

Invisible_Dave
09-11-2012, 7:14 PM
I watch the video, as well as the precurser 1911 suck 1 video and my take is as follows:

The point made is valid and factual, maybe not well articulated. The 1911 is a 100 year old design, and firearms like the Sigs, Glocks, etc have improved on that design. Those improvements have made these pistols feed more reliably, with a wider assortment of ammunition. In 1911 the ammo was lead ball round ammo, so hollowpoints and other self defense loads were not part of the original design specs. The points regarding manufacturing tolerances are also valid.

This being said, I will never understand the mentality of someone who puts a basically unsolicited opinion on the Internet with an attitude of "You can have your opinion, mine is just right because of what I've seen." Based on my knowledge I have my opinion, and I can bet 98% of you don't care even a little.

kentactic
09-11-2012, 7:23 PM
Ah,right,almost forgot. You can't make filthy money empowering people how to properly shoot a gun,without trying to sell a reason to buy excess crap that only distracts your clientele from the central point of hitting the doggone target.

No he dosent have a training bussiness that trains thousands to shoot what ever gun they bring in the best they possibly can.. and he dosent recommend a much cheaper gun then hes trashing and has no benefit in selling people on... No this guys just out to make the big bucks... thanks for opening my eyes.

fullspeed1
09-11-2012, 7:29 PM
No he dosent have a training bussiness that trains thousands to shoot what ever gun they bring in the best they possibly can.. and he dosent recommend a much cheaper gun then hes trashing and has no benefit in selling people on... No this guys just out to make the big bucks... thanks for opening my eyes.

Inebriated much??

kentactic
09-11-2012, 7:34 PM
Inebriated much??

Im assuming you mean drunk off James yeager or something to that affect.

Yeah your right i hate Glocks and James yeagers a tool... wait does that put me on john brownings nutts now?... I hate everyone and everything.... there i cant go wrong with that stance... i think...

motorwerks
09-11-2012, 7:39 PM
Edit: Forgot to mention I immediately closed the OP's Video when I saw Jame's snatch beard and Wilson Wombat's fat belly. :rolleyes:

:D :D :D :D :D

JeremyS
09-11-2012, 10:39 PM
Plenty of very serious "operators" are currently using 1911's. Many of the best-of-the-best, hardest dudes actively injecting themselves into situations where gunplay is likely carry them. Maybe they do require more regular maintenance and/or can be harder to use properly than some other designs. If that's true, it doesn't mean they suck and it doesn't mean they're outdated.

Video was 95% marketing.

DRAB_81
09-12-2012, 5:18 AM
Plenty of very serious "operators" are currently using 1911's. Many of the best-of-the-best, hardest dudes actively injecting themselves into situations where gunplay is likely carry them. Maybe they do require more regular maintenance and/or can be harder to use properly than some other designs. If that's true, it doesn't mean they suck and it doesn't mean they're outdated.

Video was 95% marketing.

1. Give an example of "plenty of very serious operators".
2. If "they" are using 1911's, they probably aren't sub-$1500 off-the-shelf guns, which goes right along with the point Yeager makes about 1911's.

skyscraper
09-12-2012, 7:00 AM
FBI, hrt, swat teams,marine corps, but yes they are for the most part over 1500 dollar guns.

t0kie
09-12-2012, 8:04 AM
FBI, hrt, swat teams,marine corps, but yes they are for the most part over 1500 dollar guns.

And they are the "big boys", doing the real thing with the gun too, like many other LE Agency that use Glock as their sidearms.

To me, it is up to anybody either like 1911 or polymer pistol like Glock, totally fine. The thing that gets old is Glock people start saying that Glock is better than 1911, more reliable, etc. Really???

RJ7
09-12-2012, 5:46 PM
I own a Colt 1911 and 3 plastic fantastic guns , love them all . Now , Thank God , I don't have to take sides. I say learn to shoot , shoot what you like , and shut up !

Lead Waster
09-12-2012, 5:55 PM
Are you suggesting that the 1911 platform is "more for range fun." And not "good" for HD/Combat?

No, I am suggesting just what I said

"Oh and not all guns are good for combat/HD, but are more for range fun. I have a Ruger 22/45 and it would be the last pistol in my safe to come out for any sort of defensive role! "

I am not even suggesting it, I'm saying it. A Ruger 22/45 is a gun for shooting at the range and assassinating GoodFellas, but it's role is probably never intended to be a home defense weapon, but of course if it's what you go, you can use it.

At what point did I suggest a 1911 is not good for HD?

Lead Waster
09-12-2012, 6:06 PM
1. Give an example of "plenty of very serious operators".
2. If "they" are using 1911's, they probably aren't sub-$1500 off-the-shelf guns, which goes right along with the point Yeager makes about 1911's.

I think the thing with those "operators" etc, is that they can hand their guns over to an armorer/smith that works for their department/service/whatever and say "Hey, clean this up for me" and it gets done. Ie; there are guys who's job it is to make sure the operator's guns (1911 or otherwise) are working.

We civilians need to pay a non-trivial amount to get our guns "smithed" and tuned. They don't so their gear is always maintained and checked for function...or so I would hope.

And yeah, modern guns don't make 1911's obsolete, they are just an evolution. Seriously, a blackpowder 19th century revolver will put a .44 round ball anywhere you want it and it's as lethal today as it was during the civil war. But evolution has given us easier loading guns. 1911's are fine, the evolution is stuff like double stack magazines (why not have 13 rounds instead of 7 or 8?!) but lets face it, there isn't really that much more evolution to the basic cartridge firing self loading pistol anymore. Polymer was probably the biggest change.

SilverTauron
09-12-2012, 7:44 PM
I watch the video, as well as the precurser 1911 suck 1 video and my take is as follows:

The point made is valid and factual, maybe not well articulated. The 1911 is a 100 year old design, and firearms like the Sigs, Glocks, etc have improved on that design.

Improvement is in the eye of the beholder.

Everyone has different needs and priorities regarding firearms. Police and Federal LE have different priorities and needs than a business owner guarding his property from robbery, and in turn all those above parties have a different criterion than the home defender guarding his house. Military users have yet more diverse needs and criterion.

A single action pistol which is ideal for a military operator hunting down terrorists can be a lawsuit-generating disaster for a police agency if they carried one.

A double action revolver carried by a CCW-er isn't the best choice for a Federal LEO serving a warrant on a Cartel member.

A 4" .357 magnum revolver serving duty under the table of the business owner works well for business defense, but not so much for military expeditionary deployment.

A great example of this principle is the FBI's adoption and abandonment of the 10mm round. Qualitatively it was an upgrade in every way from the Agency's former use of 9mm handguns. In real life, it was a step backwards because most FBI agents won't be in a Matix/Platt type shootout, and in the meantime field agents who spent their days processing cases had to haul around boat anchors for duty sidearms.

I dislike videos like this one from Yeager because *there is NO SUCH THING as a one-size-fits-all* sidearm. As such, quantifying improvement can only be done by the user-and for more than a few gun owners, the 'advanced' features of Glocks ,HKs, and Sigs represent liabilities compared to the ye old 1911.





Those improvements have made these pistols feed more reliably, with a wider assortment of ammunition. In 1911 the ammo was lead ball round ammo, so hollowpoints and other self defense loads were not part of the original design specs. The points regarding manufacturing tolerances are also valid.


The "manufacturing tolerances" point weighs against Mr. Yeager's precious Glock too. It may be made from a cast polymer frame, but that doesn't make the G19 and its cousins impervious to mass production defects. There are videos on youtube of malfunctioning Glocks just like there are of various 1911s, various Berettas, and so on.

The original 1911 not feeding hollowpoint may be the case, but brand new models do much better in this regard. My own experience with several brands of inexpensive 1911s leads me to believe rumors regarding feed problems are utter BS.

My worthless opinion:people don't maintain their weapons, stick substandard magazines in the gun, and when the weapon jams they yell that its the gun's fault. What a revolutionary thought, that a semi automatic weapon must have a quality magazine for it to function reliably.





This being said, I will never understand the mentality of someone who puts a basically unsolicited opinion on the Internet with an attitude of "You can have your opinion, mine is just right because of what I've seen." Based on my knowledge I have my opinion, and I can bet 98% of you don't care even a little.

I do. When you put out a video with a controversial topic, love it or hate it the maker's name is spread out.I didn't know who James Yeager was until his 1st "1911 Sucks" video. Thanks to this video and its sequel, youtube has now become Yeager's advertising platform.

SilverTauron
09-12-2012, 7:56 PM
I think the thing with those "operators" etc, is that they can hand their guns over to an armorer/smith that works for their department/service/whatever and say "Hey, clean this up for me" and it gets done. Ie; there are guys who's job it is to make sure the operator's guns (1911 or otherwise) are working.

We civilians need to pay a non-trivial amount to get our guns "smithed" and tuned. They don't so their gear is always maintained and checked for function...or so I would hope.

Us "civilians" go through the same process for gun repairs that the "operators" do, its just through a different logistical process. Sure, we don't have a full time armorer in the basement, but if there's a problem with our guns we generally do two things:

Call the company
Ship gun to them to fix.


As far as cost goes, this depends on legalities and the policy of the company in question. If the customer service of a gun company is top notch, the ordinary Joe with a problem may pay the same a SWAT guy would to fix his gun-$0.

Yet another issue is legalities. Replacing a defective pistol frame poses a more serious problem for a gun owner in New Jersey than it does for a customer in Texas.

As far as the 1911 goes, id say it has an advantage in that servicing basic parts like the extractor, ejector, etc can be done by a competent gunsmith near the customer.

When my 5906 S&W had an extractor problem, the only place that could fix it was the S&W factory, since extractor installs to the slide using a proprietary installation tool that only the factory used.

Thus I could get anyone to fix my pistol so long as it was the S&W factory service center in Mass, at $150 a pop. :(

jonzer77
09-12-2012, 8:09 PM
I think the thing with those "operators" etc, is that they can hand their guns over to an armorer/smith that works for their department/service/whatever and say "Hey, clean this up for me" and it gets done. Ie; there are guys who's job it is to make sure the operator's guns (1911 or otherwise) are working.

We civilians need to pay a non-trivial amount to get our guns "smithed" and tuned. They don't so their gear is always maintained and checked for function...or so I would hope.

And yeah, modern guns don't make 1911's obsolete, they are just an evolution. Seriously, a blackpowder 19th century revolver will put a .44 round ball anywhere you want it and it's as lethal today as it was during the civil war. But evolution has given us easier loading guns. 1911's are fine, the evolution is stuff like double stack magazines (why not have 13 rounds instead of 7 or 8?!) but lets face it, there isn't really that much more evolution to the basic cartridge firing self loading pistol anymore. Polymer was probably the biggest change.

This is FUD.

Brian1979
09-13-2012, 6:22 AM
I have a Springfield TRP with about 40k rounds of in it mostly competition. It has only gone through 2 firing pin stops and 1 extractor both consumable parts. I CCW a Springfield Pro and have no problem trusting it.

I have a Wilson CQB and also 2 Les Baers. None of my 1911s have issues but they do require more attention then a glock but thats why I love them. My glock was on my CCW for a long while but it got bumped and I went back to my 1911 because they are just that great.

Horton Fenty
09-13-2012, 6:42 AM
I honestly think a bit less of Wilson now that I watched that video.

Bart430
09-13-2012, 8:15 AM
To have an opinion that 1911's suck is dumb considering the history behind that weapon and the fact its still in production. Just like a car, you can get a lemon. Only one company makes Glocks, while hundreds make 1911's.

If the 1911 sucks, why is it still used today by some of the best tactical units in the world?

I carried a Sig P229 when I was on and off duty. I never had a problem with it, never once failed. I could have carried a 1911, but I loved my sig. I own a 1911, XDM 45, & Sig. I would trust my life to each because I maintain my weapons.

I have seen Glocks fail. I have seen this: http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/103386-glock-gen4-frame-damage-pics.html

Glock is a fine handgun, but like anything with moving parts it can fail at some point. There is a reason its standard issue at many Police Departments. The main reason is cost. You can get a Glock for $500.00, its going to function and it requires less maintenance. Many departments dont have the resources to purchase and maintain the more expensive handguns.

fullspeed1
09-13-2012, 8:37 AM
Are you suggesting that the 1911 platform is "more for range fun." And not "good" for HD/Combat?

Ingram, for some people it might just be. If I get another 1911, it will hands down be a Baer. Definitely something I will not be throwing around in the dirt, It will be pure lust and an heirloom for my kids. I don't care for production 1911's anymore. I would love just one semi(nearly) custom pistol that would be a fun range toy. I've got Glocks with lights on them for HD and carry work. just my feelings....

Lead Waster
09-13-2012, 10:30 AM
This is FUD.

How is this FUD? If my gun malfunctions or needs some tuning, or I want new sights, I have to send it back to the manufacturer or pay a gunsmith. I'm assuming that if you are in the Army and your pistol malfunctions, you bring it to the guy who's job it is to keep it working.

I'm a software engineer, when my computer malfunctions, I call IT to come fix it, they don't charge me for it because that's their job, to keep company computer's working. If my computer at home breaks, I go and buy the parts to fix it myself there is no handy IT department for my personal computer.


What part of it is FUD that the Army/Navy/Marines have soldiers/sailors/marines who are trained armorers who's job it is to fix broken guns?

Of course they have to clean their own guns like we do, but when things are busted, don't they just bring them to the armory to fix? I sure hope so, but I've never been in the army so I don't know.

I'm guessing that police have similar services, or at least have a gunsmith on retainer/contract to fix their service pistols? Is this not the case?

SilverTauron
09-13-2012, 10:47 AM
How is this FUD? If my gun malfunctions

This is not the same thing as....


...or needs some tuning, or I want new sights, I have to send it back to the manufacturer or pay a gunsmith. I'm assuming that if you are in the Army and your pistol malfunctions, you bring it to the guy who's job it is to keep it working? ....that.

Optional features will always cost more money. Basic function issues addressed by the factory costs a consumer the same as it would a military or police member: $0, unless
A) The company's customer service blows chunks.
B) Local laws complicate things.

Lead Waster
09-13-2012, 10:58 AM
This is not the same thing as....

....that.

Optional features will always cost more money. Basic function issues addressed by the factory costs a consumer the same as it would a military or police member: $0, unless
A) The company's customer service blows chunks.
B) Local laws complicate things.

Yeah, OK. But my point is that guys who ACTUALLY use guns as part of their job probably have an easier way to take care of them than those of us who shoot as a sport.

And I think even if you had an upgrade (like a sight) you could bring it to the base armorer and he's stick it in for you. I don't know though.

I'm also guessing that if I'm some Special Forces guy and I want something on my gun, the taxpayers will pay to get it, install it, and tune it for me. Again, just like me as a software geek, if I need a bigger harddrive I don't need to buy and install it myself, I make a request for IT to do it, since that's their job, and the company will pay for it, since I need it to do my job for the company.

Anyway, back on topic. I think James Yeager is much like any other shock-jock celebri-wanna-be. Just say/do something contreversial and you'll get attention, which means celebrity, which means money. Look how long this thread is, and all the discussion about Yeager, 1911's and Wilson Combat. He's a fine marketer. Reminds me of Paris Hilton's sex tape, The introduction of "New Coke", etc, etc, etc ... attention whoring as it's called on the net.