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View Full Version : CZ-75B Range report; problems!


freethemouse
09-09-2012, 7:35 PM
Just took my brand new CZ-75B to the range today. I shot about 120 rounds before today with no problems, but today I shot 200 rounds after cleaning and ran into failure-to-battery problems. All rounds were reloads.

I noticed that every few rounds, and seemingly randomly, the gun would fail to go into battery. The slide would stick out about 1/2 inch, and a slight tap (even a little press with the thumb) would get it back into battery and ready to fire. Also on occasion, the slide would get hung up, then go into battery by itself about a second later (you could feel/hear the slide go into battery after firing; weird).

I'm guessing (or hoping, rather) that I used too much oil after I cleaned it, or that I just need another, heavier recoil spring. I'm not exactly sure what else could be causing this problem.

I'm probably going to order a new 16lbs spring (CZ's springs are supposed to be 14lbs, but my research says it's more like 12lbs) since it's cheap. Hopefully, a better job cleaning/oiling will fix the problem though.

Otherwise, the gun was great. It felt great, it was accurate, and it's helluva lot easier on the hands than a fantastic plastic pistol. I just gotta work out this little failure to battery issue (also, inb4 "you're in your break-in period/this gun sucks period").

UPDATE: Thanks for the advice everybody. I gave the gun a thorough cleaning, including the ejector area. The reloads shot fine, as did various other ammunition. =)

jcaoloveshine
09-09-2012, 7:38 PM
I'm willing to bet it's the reloads.

Did they feel underpowered compared to factory loads? Changing the springs might help, but the root might be the ammo.

If it's underpowered, it may not have enough power to cycle the gun completely.

Good compromise might be to swap springs when using the underpowered ammo. Otherwise, I would just get more powerful reloads or stick with factory. Or better yet, reload your own :D

xbimmers
09-09-2012, 7:39 PM
Check the measurements of your reloads. I would run them through a chamber checker. This sounds like it is the ammo and not the gun.

zfields
09-09-2012, 7:46 PM
What bullet profile. CZ's have some issues with some types of bullet sizes as far as the taper of bullet itself.

freethemouse
09-09-2012, 8:12 PM
No, they rounds did not feel underpowered at all. They shot flawlessly on my brother's XD9 (also 200 rounds). But I definitely need to shoot some factory ammo to see how they run.

I'm not all too familiar with the rounds as they're factory reloads (I hope it's not the ammo because it's the cheapest I can get). All I know is that they're 115gr.

Also, if the problem was underpowered rounds, wouldn't my problem be FTE? When the slide stops, the round is almost seated in the chamber, and all the slide needs is a very light push to put it into battery. But I'll try various ammo to see if I still have problems.

xbimmers
09-09-2012, 8:18 PM
What bullet profile. CZ's have some issues with some types of bullet sizes as far as the taper of bullet itself.

I agree on it being a taper issue.......

Remove your barrel and put your rounds in the chamber and see how they fit.

Czsp-01-9mm
09-09-2012, 8:37 PM
Over oiling doesn't affect this gun. I have an sp-01 and I tend to over oil because it sits in the safe 2 months at a time

freethemouse
09-09-2012, 8:48 PM
I agree on it being a taper issue.......

Remove your barrel and put your rounds in the chamber and see how they fit.

I think you may be right about the taper.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1501784/2012-09-09%2020.43.53.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1501784/2012-09-09%2020.45.35.jpg

The one on the left is is CCI Blazer Brass, and the one on the right is the reload. I don't know if it comes through clearly in those pictures, but the Blazer Brass is longer and narrower.

I'll try some other ammunition and see what happens. Does anyone recommend a cheap, reliable brand?

Czsp-01-9mm
09-09-2012, 8:54 PM
I use fed bulk from Walmart, 300 round still no problems, I've used Tula and blazer and wwb to so 600 total over oiled too

Aspec5vz
09-09-2012, 8:59 PM
I'll bet it's your ammo. Try firing another couple hundred rounds of a different type of ammo and see what happens.

freethemouse
09-09-2012, 9:29 PM
The reloads are also mixed brass; I'm going to collect the ones that fail to feed to see if there's a common brand that's causing the problems.

Either way, if it is the ammo (from bullet_man911 here on Calguns), it's a total bummer since it is the cheapest I can find. I'd like to shoot a lot and the ammo savings would be substantial (it's pretty substantial even considering the amount I shot today). I suppose I can keep shooting these and just give the slide a tap every now and then.

FWIW, there was about a dozen or so failures to go into battery out of the 200 rounds I shot today.

EDIT: Does anybody have any experience with CZ's and hollowpoints/home defense rounds? Which ones were good and which ones should I stay away from?

zfields
09-09-2012, 9:33 PM
The reloads are also mixed brass; I'm going to collect the ones that fail to feed to see if there's a common brand that's causing the problems.

Either way, if it is the ammo (from bullet_man911 here on Calguns), it's a total bummer since it is the cheapest I can find. I'd like to shoot a lot and the ammo savings would be substantial (it's pretty substantial even considering the amount I shot today). I suppose I can keep shooting these and just give the slide a tap every now and then.

FWIW, there was about a dozen or so failures to go into battery.

Need to do a chamber drop test. Also, pictures so big I cant compare them : )

Mark the bullet with a sharpie, drop in the chamber and see if its hitting the bullet before it fully chambers. I had a issue with the berrys 124grain hollow points, along with a couple of lead bullets that had a shorter, squat profile.



As for HD rounds, both winchester PDX1 and the 124 grain gold dots both work fine in my CZ. They both have a longer, slender profile. The hornady critical defense ammo works decently also, but I havent put a huge amount through yet.

freethemouse
09-09-2012, 9:41 PM
Need to do a chamber drop test. Also, pictures so big I cant compare them : )

Mark the bullet with a sharpie, drop in the chamber and see if its hitting the bullet before it fully chambers. I had a issue with the berrys 124grain hollow points, along with a couple of lead bullets that had a shorter, squat profile.



As for HD rounds, both winchester PDX1 and the 124 grain gold dots both work fine in my CZ. They both have a longer, slender profile. The hornady critical defense ammo works decently also, but I havent put a huge amount through yet.

Hey, I resized the pictures; scroll up and see if that's any better.

Also, the reloads I were shooting, at least compared to the CCI Blazer Brass, has "shorter, squat profile" bullets. (Maybe you can tell from the pictures now that they're a bit smaller?)

zfields
09-09-2012, 9:45 PM
Hey, I resized the pictures; scroll up and see if that's any better.

Also, the reloads I were shooting, at least compared to the CCI Blazer Brass, has "shorter, squat profile" bullets. (Maybe you can tell from the pictures now that they're a bit smaller?)

They sure do look like it, not nearly as bad as the ones I had issues with though. You may want to ask him if he can do some loading for you with the 124 RNHB berrys bullet. A lot of the guys over on CZforums are raving about it.

pc_load_letter
09-09-2012, 9:49 PM
I'm going to shoot some bullet_man 9mm reloads through my SP-01 this week. Probably Tuesday. I can report back my results.

I have never had problems with Bullet_mans ammo in my 75bd, or my Ruger SR9 or my P226. His 45's have been great in my SIg 1911 as well.

.45 ftw!
09-09-2012, 9:55 PM
I just shot 200 rounds of these very reloads through my xd9 with no problems....

zfields
09-09-2012, 10:01 PM
I just shot 200 rounds of these very reloads through my xd9 with no problems....

XD's are much looser chambered it seems. Not a bad thing by any means : )

freethemouse
09-09-2012, 10:03 PM
I'm going to shoot some bullet_man 9mm reloads through my SP-01 this week. Probably Tuesday. I can report back my results.

I have never had problems with Bullet_mans ammo in my 75bd, or my Ruger SR9 or my P226. His 45's have been great in my SIg 1911 as well.

I see.

Well, ideally, the second cleaning will have resolved the issue. I'm going to try other ammo regardless, and also pick up a heavier spring because it seems to me that that could help (it's like it's BARELY failing to go into battery; I bet I can shake the gun real hard and make it go into battery). The only issue with the heavier spring is that it would put more strain on the slide stop, which I've heard breaks from time to time. Are there any other issues I could potentially run into with a heavier spring?

I just remembered that when I first fondled my CZ-75B, the slide felt much lighter than the rental I was using at the range (the slide was VERY hard to rack on the rental gun, I've had no problem racking mine). This also leads me to think it's the spring.

Oh, and to answer an earlier question, the bullets sit fine in the chamber. Both the reloads and the CCI Blazer Brass drop in easily.


I just shot 200 rounds of these very reloads through my xd9 with no problems....

Yup, my brother shot 200 through his XD9 without a single hiccup. Sad part is, I can shoot his gun much better than I can this CZ-75 (granted, I put more rounds through the XD).

40SWGlock
09-09-2012, 10:07 PM
The reloads are also mixed brass; I'm going to collect the ones that fail to feed to see if there's a common brand that's causing the problems.

Either way, if it is the ammo (from bullet_man911 here on Calguns), it's a total bummer since it is the cheapest I can find. I'd like to shoot a lot and the ammo savings would be substantial (it's pretty substantial even considering the amount I shot today). I suppose I can keep shooting these and just give the slide a tap every now and then.

FWIW, there was about a dozen or so failures to go into battery out of the 200 rounds I shot today.

EDIT: Does anybody have any experience with CZ's and hollowpoints/home defense rounds? Which ones were good and which ones should I stay away from?

I shot 400 reloads today from Bulletman that were flawless.
200 thru XD9 Subcompact
200 thru RIA 1911 Tactical
Cant beat the price on the ammo for target and practice.

zfields
09-09-2012, 10:10 PM
Try some of the walmart winchester junk. If its an issue of underpowered ammo, you will have problems.

I wouldnt go with an "extra power" spring, just replace the current one with a good, US made one (wolf). IIRC, even CZcustom bashes the stock springs for being junk euro trash.

freethemouse
09-09-2012, 10:12 PM
Try some of the walmart winchester junk. If its an issue of underpowered ammo, you will have problems.

I wouldnt go with an "extra power" spring, just replace the current one with a good, US made one (wolf). IIRC, even CZcustom bashes the stock springs for being junk euro trash.

Yeah, I was going to pick up a 15 or 16lbs Wolff spring. Think I should just go with the 14lbs one? (CZ's specs)

glockwise2000
09-09-2012, 10:18 PM
It might be just that your CZ is brand spanking new. It would new at least a 1000 rounds to break-in a new HG. Try new factory loads for the first thousand round and then switch to bulletman's reloads.

My CZ has well over 3000 rds and yet to fail. I haven't used reloads yet though.

pc_load_letter
09-09-2012, 10:18 PM
Also....I've always had to lube my CZ's somewhat more liberally than other handguns.

My CZ's have always liked a nice thick coat of grease (I use SlideGlide) when shooting. Might be anecdotal but it's my experience.

My CZ's never ran well with FrogLube. Seemed to burn off quickly.

freethemouse
09-09-2012, 10:24 PM
It might be just that your CZ is brand spanking new. It would new at least a 1000 rounds to break-in a new HG. Try new factory loads for the first thousand round and then switch to bulletman's reloads.

My CZ has well over 3000 rds and yet to fail. I haven't used reloads yet though.

Ahh yes. The fabled "this gun sucks" period. I was hoping to avoid this myself but I suppose it could be a break-in issue (FWIW, the first 120 rounds I shot were fine. The next 200 [using different reloads] were not).


Also....I've always had to lube my CZ's somewhat more liberally than other handguns.

My CZ's have always liked a nice thick coat of grease (I use SlideGlide) when shooting. Might be anecdotal but it's my experience.

My CZ's never ran well with FrogLube. Seemed to burn off quickly.

Okay, I think like I'm about to feel pretty stupid here. Should I be using GREASE? I've just been applying CLP, and none of that paste-like stuff.

zfields
09-09-2012, 10:25 PM
Yeah, I was going to pick up a 15 or 16lbs Wolff spring. Think I should just go with the 14lbs one? (CZ's specs)

If anything, stick stock. Id test the ammo first.

Also....I've always had to lube my CZ's somewhat more liberally than other handguns.

My CZ's have always liked a nice thick coat of grease (I use SlideGlide) when shooting. Might be anecdotal but it's my experience.

My CZ's never ran well with FrogLube. Seemed to burn off quickly.

+1. I use hoppes gun grease and slip 2000, seems to work just fine.
Grease only on the slide rails, drop of oil in the inner workings of the sear cage, and call it a day.

Euphoria526
09-09-2012, 10:36 PM
It might be just that your CZ is brand spanking new. It would new at least a 1000 rounds to break-in a new HG. Try new factory loads for the first thousand round and then switch to bulletman's reloads.

My CZ has well over 3000 rds and yet to fail. I haven't used reloads yet though.

This. Its also my understanding you shouldn't shoot reloads to break in a barrel property because of ye inconsistencies in them. I have never shot reloads through my p01 and I'm thankful. Hell I bought my 40 use and still refuse to put randome rounds through it

zfields
09-09-2012, 10:44 PM
This. Its also my understanding you shouldn't shoot reloads to break in a barrel property because of ye inconsistencies in them. I have never shot reloads through my p01 and I'm thankful. Hell I bought my 40 use and still refuse to put randome rounds through it

No offence, but I don't buy that one bit. If anything, a properly reloaded round can be just as, or more, consistent then factory ammo. Quality completely depends on who is loading it.

I also don't buy into the barrel break in junk when it comes to combat style pistols.

Euphoria526
09-09-2012, 11:14 PM
Zfields- I completely agree with you. But I also understand when you buy reloads in bulk like that from someplace you don't know and you don't oversee or understand process, it's more of a gamble for sizes and consistsencies if you don't know what is going into it. Granted this can also apply to factory as well I will not deny that at all I just use what I've found to work for me. My guns love pmc. Lol

You know far more than I do fields, I'm not afraid to admit that, that's just my understanding as is for reloads. If you don't do it yourself you don't know exactly what you get.

zfields
09-09-2012, 11:21 PM
Zfields- I completely agree with you. But I also understand when you buy reloads in bulk like that from someplace you don't know and you don't oversee or understand process, it's more of a gamble for sizes and consistsencies if you don't know what is going into it. Granted this can also apply to factory as well I will not deny that at all I just use what I've found to work for me. My guns love pmc. Lol

You know far more than I do fields, I'm not afraid to admit that, that's just my understanding as is for reloads. If you don't do it yourself you don't know exactly what you get.

I apologize, I didn't mean to come off condescending at all if it sounded like it. I just don't understand the barrel break in on pistol barrels. With a bench rifle? Sure, you are doing the final lapping on it. Pistols? Lapping 4 1/2 inches of steel with low velocity copper doesn't seem like it would do much to me. As for breaking in the slide to frame, sear and hammer hook faces etc, that makes much more sense. And with how random reloads usually come with variations to seating depth, charge weights, and at times bad crimps/resizing, I still don't see how it would effect break in that much.


For factory, RWS sportline 124 grain is amazing stuff if you can find it.

pc_load_letter
09-10-2012, 8:46 AM
Okay, I think like I'm about to feel pretty stupid here. Should I be using GREASE? I've just been applying CLP, and none of that paste-like stuff.

Probably not enough viscosity by itself. While I occasionally use CLP for cleaning, I do not rely on it for my lubrication duties solely.

When it's metal on metal...grease!

See zfields reply as well. For me, I use slideguide on my rails on the frame and slide.

For my internal workings...I use Gunzilla CLP which is like CLP but all natural and non toxic.

After you apply, work the slide for a few minutes and get some snap caps to ensure extraction is fine.

Euphoria526
09-10-2012, 9:52 AM
I apologize, I didn't mean to come off condescending at all if it sounded like it. I just don't understand the barrel break in on pistol barrels. With a bench rifle? Sure, you are doing the final lapping on it. Pistols? Lapping 4 1/2 inches of steel with low velocity copper doesn't seem like it would do much to me. As for breaking in the slide to frame, sear and hammer hook faces etc, that makes much more sense. And with how random reloads usually come with variations to seating depth, charge weights, and at times bad crimps/resizing, I still don't see how it would effect break in that much.


For factory, RWS sportline 124 grain is amazing stuff if you can find it.

Hahah it's all good I didn't take it as condecencing, I'm like a sponge with this stuff so any logical reasoning that makes sense I consider. I have yet to shoot a hand pressed reload from someone i personally know, just had mess ups with rental guns and reloads. I know you reload and you know what your doing and putting into it so it's better than factory.
And the break in thing. I just feel really any metal mechanical device has some sort of break in. Definitely the internals and metal on metal. But I also just wanted to get my gun used to factory rounds for my matches and what brand I want to shoot. Maybe it's more superstition than anything else.

freethemouse
09-10-2012, 10:49 AM
Probably not enough viscosity by itself. While I occasionally use CLP for cleaning, I do not rely on it for my lubrication duties solely.

When it's metal on metal...grease!

See zfields reply as well. For me, I use slideguide on my rails on the frame and slide.

For my internal workings...I use Gunzilla CLP which is like CLP but all natural and non toxic.

After you apply, work the slide for a few minutes and get some snap caps to ensure extraction is fine.

I just ordered Slip 2000 grease from Amazon. I'll try that out and see how that works.

Also, I've been lurking on czfirearms.us forums and the consensus seems to be that changing to a Wolff spring is a prudent thing to do. We'll see how the spring works (I'm probably going to pick up some spare parts in the near future, too).

the0thermrt
09-10-2012, 11:00 AM
try shooting one handed, or left handed - if it runs smooth then it means your support hand thumb is messing with the slide stop, slowing down the slide on return enough to make the nose of the next round stick on the feed ramp.

freethemouse
09-10-2012, 12:08 PM
try shooting one handed, or left handed - if it runs smooth then it means your support hand thumb is messing with the slide stop, slowing down the slide on return enough to make the nose of the next round stick on the feed ramp.

I suspected this could be the case as I've recently changed my grip where I place my thumb near the slide stop. I went back to my old grip (basically the same but with my thumb near my index finger knuckle) and still had the same problem. =(

sofbak
09-10-2012, 1:35 PM
I think before I started replacing springs, I would look at one more potential failure scenario that hasn't been mentioned. Based on your original post, you may have an extractor sticking in the "closed" position.

If they gun was heavily oiled, there could have been a lot of oil in the groove behind the extractor. After the 200 initial rounds, enough carbon and powder residue could have been pumped back there as well. Let that residue absorb the oil overnight, and you have a build-up of semi-solid sludge. And it could have settled around the spring well to hamper the opening motion of the extractor. Then in use, if the claw doesn't ride over the case rim, the round is a bit "sideways" during the last 1/2" or so of travel before reaching battery.

I have read on other forums about crud build up in this area on CZ pistol, and the general solution was to clean it out and keep it dry.

I would try a spray can of gun solvent or chlorinated brake cleaner from the local parts house, and hose out the extractor well. I do this on my sp-01 after every session. I take a tooth pick and put it behind the extractor claw to hold it away from the bottom of the groove, and put the plastic tube on the spray can in there and spray away. Just be sure to wear eye protection, because if you get a back-splash of that stuff in the eye, it's going to burn like the dickens.

hth

freethemouse
09-10-2012, 2:05 PM
Thanks Sofbak! I heard about extractor issue while researching this issue. I ended up ordering some pipe cleaners and brushes last night after learning about all the little nooks and crannys that need cleaning. I'm going to clean tonight and make a trip out to the range to see if the problem persists.

I also ordered the spring. At least I got a back up one. =)

xbimmers
09-10-2012, 2:15 PM
Another thing to consider is this. When I have reloaded .45 ACP military brass I found most of them would not make the chamber checker test. It appears the walls of the military brass is thicker than commercial brass. Can you tell me if the 9mm brass you are using is military brass? What are the markings? Have you done the chamber check yet?

freethemouse
09-10-2012, 2:33 PM
Another thing to consider is this. When I have reloaded .45 ACP military brass I found most of them would not make the chamber checker test. It appears the walls of the military brass is thicker than commercial brass. Can you tell me if the 9mm brass you are using is military brass? What are the markings? Have you done the chamber check yet?

The brass is mixed. Saw some FC's, UMC, WIN, AGUILA, etc. I've dropped a few into the chamber, along with CCI Blazer Brass, and they all dropped in easily.

zfields
09-10-2012, 2:42 PM
Another thing to consider is this. When I have reloaded .45 ACP military brass I found most of them would not make the chamber checker test. It appears the walls of the military brass is thicker than commercial brass. Can you tell me if the 9mm brass you are using is military brass? What are the markings? Have you done the chamber check yet?

What type of chambering on the gun. I could see that happening on a "match" type gun, but not on a combat designed pistol.