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View Full Version : Desert Eagle XIX .44 US or Israeli Made??


2ndAmendmentDefender
09-08-2012, 5:58 AM
Finally saw a brushed chrome model in the only decent gunshop in town, and am interested in it. But I have questions that I really didnt have before. Not a whole lot of online reviews, other than stay away from the US made ones.

So, how can you tell if the thing was made in Israel or the US.

I've seen a few on this post, and as far as the pic's go, it says in the right side, "made in Israel" but on the left side of gun it also says "magnum research pillager, mn. usa"

Also, the deagle at my local gunshop, I did not look at either side as of yet, but was wondering how I can tell for sure if it is Israeli made.

Thanks for replies, 2AD

coryb619
09-08-2012, 5:40 PM
XIX is USA made. Israeli is the vii. Im picking up my polished chrome 44 mag on Saturday :-D can't wait. I have done a lot of research on em and if you plan on going to a 50 barrel as well get the XIX and it's only the barrel not slide too. Bad *** hand cannons and cant go wrong either way.

coryb619
09-08-2012, 5:43 PM
Ppl will say they are jam-o-matics but don't get underpowered ammo or limp wrist it and it's a awesome fun gun.

Squid
09-08-2012, 5:50 PM
Croatia but has the distribution company address (Springfield) stamped on it.


Bersa says Made in Argentina and somewhere else says "imported by RSAj, New Jersey".


I wouldn't know what, if any, 'content %' rules apply.

2ndAmendmentDefender
09-08-2012, 6:01 PM
Well, I did look at the deagle .44 at the gunshop today, Does say on right side "made in israel" and stamped on the left, is the pillager, mn usa too??

Guy swears it is made in israel, it is the XIX, so I guess the next thing is to call MRI monday morning and find out for sure.

Thanks for the replies, and while I still have you guys on the phone :D Would it matter to any of you here if it was made in Israel or the USA?

2AD

coryb619
09-08-2012, 6:20 PM
Personally I don't care who makes the gun as long as its XIX. That's the more convertible of the 2 and like I posted earlier, don't buy "cheap" ammo and shoot it right and you will enjoy :-)

coryb619
09-08-2012, 6:26 PM
I am curious tho, are you buying it new? How much is it goin for? I'm in Texas currently and here the polished chrome is goin for 1640.

2ndAmendmentDefender
09-08-2012, 6:26 PM
MRI looks to have some of the optimum ammo for the .44 on their website, and seems to be decently priced too, and thats the stuff they are recommending, so with that and keeping the hand off the bottom of magazine when shooting should make for Fun, problem free shooting.

Personally I don't care who makes the gun as long as its XIX. That's the more convertible of the 2 and like I posted earlier, don't buy "cheap" ammo and shoot it right and you will enjoy :-)

2ndAmendmentDefender
09-08-2012, 6:32 PM
It is New, $17XX and ive been looking out here in cali for a while, supposedly rare/scarce out here for the brushed chrome, since that and the black one are the only choices in this state.

I also noticed that the "california model" does not have the dove-tail style picatinny rail anymore, rather a smoother top. I liked the older style of the dove-tail personally.

I am curious tho, are you buying it new? How much is it goin for? I'm in Texas currently and here the polished chrome is goin for 1640.

coryb619
09-08-2012, 7:22 PM
It is New, $17XX and ive been looking out here in cali for a while, supposedly rare/scarce out here for the brushed chrome, since that and the black one are the only choices in this state.

I also noticed that the "california model" does not have the dove-tail style picatinny rail anymore, rather a smoother top. I liked the older style of the dove-tail personally.

I hadn't noticed the lack of a rail until you just mentioned it. That's weird..I thought it was the same gun just the extra safety whatever to pass ca drop tests etc. I didn't look into the Cali model much since I knew I would be getting one before I came back. Saturday cant come soon enough!

dachan
09-08-2012, 7:35 PM
XIX is USA made. Israeli is the vii..

So very wrong, variant has nothing to do with country of manufacture. In fact, it almost seems there is no reasoning behind country of manufacture, it's flipped back and forth so many times; though I'm sure somebody at MRI made the changes for a reason.
1982-1995 Made in Israel
1995-1998 Made in USA
1998-2009 Made in Israel
2009-Present Made in USA
2010 Kahr purchases MRI
2011 Kahr announces Classic DE to be made in Israel

2ndAmendmentDefender
09-08-2012, 7:55 PM
Please elaborate, any further information on the subject would be forthcoming.

So very wrong.

coryb619
09-09-2012, 9:23 AM
So very wrong, variant has nothing to do with country of manufacture. In fact, it almost seems there is no reasoning behind country of manufacture, it's flipped back and forth so many times; though I'm sure somebody at MRI made the changes for a reason.
1982-1995 Made in Israel
1995-1998 Made in USA
1998-2009 Made in Israel
2009-Present Made in USA
2010 Kahr purchases MRI
2011 Kahr announces Classic DE to be made in Israel

Seems my research has done me wrong lol. What is the difference between the 2 manufacturers then? Same platform so how is israeli better than the usa one?

hyeg35
09-09-2012, 9:47 AM
i'm also so very confused about the differences in model (XIX... etc.). Some have full length picatinny rails while others only have the two slots on the slide. Anyone know what models are which?

coryb619
09-09-2012, 11:36 AM
i'm also so very confused about the differences in model (XIX... etc.). Some have full length picatinny rails while others only have the two slots on the slide. Anyone know what models are which?

Full rail is the xix. Also xix is easily changeable as the vii requires more parts than just a barrel to switch from 44 to 50. Can be sent in to magnum for a conversion so I've read also...but better of just buying a xix with extra barrel.

coryb619
09-09-2012, 11:37 AM
But as 2ad mentioned the Cali version doesn't have the rail but I believe is the xix platform just minus the rail lol. Confusing!!

hyeg35
09-09-2012, 3:27 PM
Which system would be considered "better" the full rail XIX or the two slotted VII

coryb619
09-09-2012, 3:42 PM
Full rail xix. Newer and requires only the barrel to be changed for 44/50 conversion. Then it's up to which manufacturer is better. The USA or Israel. That I have no idea.

dachan
09-09-2012, 5:06 PM
i'm also so very confused about the differences in model (XIX... etc.). Some have full length picatinny rails while others only have the two slots on the slide. Anyone know what models are which?

MkI and MkVII pistols have the 3/8" dovetail, no slots. They were only chambered in .357Mag & .44Mag (& .41Mag in the case of MkVII). When the .50AE came out, the slide and barrel were enlarged, thus able to accomodate a larger 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top. Some time after the .50AE came out (originally not as a MkXIX, but just as a 50cal MkVII), the MkVII was discontinued and all calibers switched to the larger 7/8" slide as the MkXIX. Originally the 7/8" dovetail had only 2 slots, later a full picatinny rail was adopted (I think in 2009 when manufacture returned to USA, but I cannot confirm). The MkXIX calibers use a common slide, and only require a barrel and magazine change (and bolt in the case of .357Mag) to change calibers. There other subtle differences between the MkI, MkVII and MkXIX:

MkI:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Standard trigger
Teardrop safety

MkVII:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

MkXIX (Pre-2009/Made in Israel):
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top, 2 slots
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

MkXIX (Post-2009/Made in USA):
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top, picatiny rail
Adjustable trigger
Teardrop safety

MkXIX Classic DE (2011/Made in Israel)
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top, picatiny rail
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

Edit: Italicizied differences within the MkXIX models is based on information found in this thread but has not been confirmed by MRI documentation.

Note that the slots are on the barrel, not on the slide, .41Mag chambering has been discontinued and that any slide will fit on any frame, i.e., a MkXIX slide will fit on a MkI frame, or you can convert your MkVII to a MKXIX by just installing any MKXIX barrel and slide. Also, note that if you had a MkI or MkVII and wanted to shoot .50AE, you need to get a whole new slide. But, once you got that slide, you only need to get a new (MKXIX) barrel to switch to .44Mag or .357Mag (again a bolt change is needed for .357Mag). Finally, the CA models are unique MkXIX models, in that they incorporate a firing pin block, but any (non-CA) MkXIX barrel can be used.

Seems my research has done me wrong lol. What is the difference between the 2 manufacturers then? Same platform so how is israeli better than the usa one?

Actually, there have been 3 manufacturers, IMI/IWI (Israel), Saco (USA) and MRI (USA). Anybody that tells you Made in USA is better or worse than Made in Israel is full of it. Why should there be any difference? Worldwide manufacturing techniques are shared between contractor and contractee. Some people want an Israeli gun because they think that the Desert Eagle is a Israeli gun. That's not correct. Magnum Research is and always has been a US company. The gun was designed and patented by a US engineer working for MRI. Only because the first ones were manufactured under contract by IMI, makes people think the Desert Eagle is an Israeli gun. (Okay, IMI probably contributed design and manufacturing refinement during the initial stages of the contract.) MRI is the importer of several other IMI designs (such as the cosmetically similar Jericho 941 under the Baby Eagle name), thus contributing to the confusion. No matter if a DE was manufactured in Israel by IMI/IWI or Saco in Maine or by MRI in their MN facilties, over the years, MRI has always retained full ownership of the intellectual property. Finally, it should be noted that all the custom finishes have always been done in MN. MRI contractors have only delivered blued guns. Custom finished guns are blued guns stripped and refinished in MN no matter if orginally manufactured in Israel, Saco ME or Pillager MN.

So to clarify:
1982-1995 Made in Israel by IMI under contract to MRI
1995-1998 Made in USA by Saco under contract to MRI
1998-2009 Made in Israel by IMI (reorganized into IWI in 2005) under contract to MRI
2009-Present Made in USA by MRI
2010 Kahr purchases MRI
2011 (Classic DE) Made in Israel by IWI under contract to Kahr

Bottomline, the DE/Israeli connection is just fortuitous timing and good marketing. This took place in the early '80's, right after the Reagan assassination attempt where Uzi's instantly appeared in the hands of several Secret Service agents. Afterall, the thinking went, if the Israeli's made the weapon of choice to protect the POTUS, they certainly should know how to make one for me. So MRI didn't do much to counter the perception that the DE was another imported Israeli/IMI gun like the Uzi.

2ndAmendmentDefender
09-09-2012, 7:19 PM
MkI and MkVII pistols have the 3/8" dovetail, no slots. They were only chambered in .357Mag & .44Mag (& .41Mag in the case of MkVII). When the .50AE came out, the slide and barrel were enlarged, thus able to accomodate a larger 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top. Some time after the .50AE came out (originally not as a MkXIX, but just as a 50cal MkVII), the MkVII was discontinued and all calibers switched to the larger 7/8" slide as the MkXIX. Originally the 7/8" dovetail had only 2 slots, later a full picatinny rail was adopted (I think in 2009 when manufacture returned to USA, but I cannot confirm). The MkXIX calibers use a common slide, and only require a barrel and magazine change (and bolt in the case of .357Mag) to change calibers. There other subtle differences between the MkI, MkVII and MkXIX:

MkI:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Standard trigger
Teardrop safety

MkVII:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

MkXIX:
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

Note that the slots are on the barrel, not on the slide, .41Mag chambering has been discontinued and that any slide will fit on any frame, i.e., a MkXIX slide will fit on a MkI frame, or you can convert your MkVII to a MKXIX by just installing any MKXIX barrel and slide. Also, note that if you had a MkI or MkVII and wanted to shoot .50AE, you need to get a whole new slide. But, once you got that slide, you only need to get a new (MKXIX) barrel to switch to .44Mag or .357Mag (again a bolt change is needed for .357Mag). Finally, the CA models are unique MkXIX models, in that they incorporate a firing pin block, but any (non-CA) MkXIX barrel can be used.



Actually, there have been 3 manufacturers, IMI/IWI (Israel), Saco (USA) and MRI (USA). Anybody that tells you Made in USA is better or worse than Made in Israel is full of it. Why should there be any difference? Worldwide manufacturing techniques are shared between contractor and contractee. Some people want an Israeli gun because they think that the Desert Eagle is a Israeli gun. That's not correct. Magnum Research is and always has been a US company. The gun was designed and patented by a US engineer working for MRI. Only because the first ones were manufactured under contract by IMI, makes people think the Desert Eagle is an Israeli gun. (Okay, IMI probably contributed design and manufacturing refinement during the initial stages of the contract.) MRI is the importer of several other IMI designs (such as the cosmetically similar Jericho 941 under the Baby Eagle name), thus contributing to the confusion. No matter if a DE was manufactured in Israel by IMI/IWI or Saco in Maine or by MRI in their MN facilties, over the years, MRI has always retained full ownership of the intellectual property. Finally, it should be noted that all the custom finishes have always been done in MN. MRI contractors have only delivered blued guns. Custom finished guns are blued guns stripped and refinished in MN no matter if orginally manufactured in Israel, Saco ME or Pillager MN.

So to clarify:
1982-1995 Made in Israel by IMI under contract to MRI
1995-1998 Made in USA by Saco under contract to MRI
1998-2009 Made in Israel by IMI (reorganized into IWI in 2005) under contract to MRI
2009-Present Made in USA by MRI
2010 Kahr purchases MRI
2011 (Classic DE) Made in Israel by IWI under contract to Kahr

Bottomline, the DE/Israeli connection is just fortuitous timing and good marketing. This took place in the early '80's, right after the Reagan assassination attempt where Uzi's instantly appeared in the hands of several Secret Service agents. Afterall, the thinking went, if the Israeli's made the weapon of choice to protect the POTUS, they certainly should know how to make one for me. So MRI didn't do much to counter the perception that the DE was another imported Israeli/IMI gun like the Uzi.

umm, i like this guy :) Nice stats. thx

Eddy's Shooting Sports
09-09-2012, 8:05 PM
MkI and MkVII pistols have the 3/8" dovetail, no slots. They were only chambered in .357Mag & .44Mag (& .41Mag in the case of MkVII). When the .50AE came out, the slide and barrel were enlarged, thus able to accomodate a larger 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top. Some time after the .50AE came out (originally not as a MkXIX, but just as a 50cal MkVII), the MkVII was discontinued and all calibers switched to the larger 7/8" slide as the MkXIX. Originally the 7/8" dovetail had only 2 slots, later a full picatinny rail was adopted (I think in 2009 when manufacture returned to USA, but I cannot confirm). The MkXIX calibers use a common slide, and only require a barrel and magazine change (and bolt in the case of .357Mag) to change calibers. There other subtle differences between the MkI, MkVII and MkXIX:

MkI:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Standard trigger
Teardrop safety

MkVII:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

MkXIX:
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

Note that the slots are on the barrel, not on the slide, .41Mag chambering has been discontinued and that any slide will fit on any frame, i.e., a MkXIX slide will fit on a MkI frame, or you can convert your MkVII to a MKXIX by just installing any MKXIX barrel and slide. Also, note that if you had a MkI or MkVII and wanted to shoot .50AE, you need to get a whole new slide. But, once you got that slide, you only need to get a new (MKXIX) barrel to switch to .44Mag or .357Mag (again a bolt change is needed for .357Mag). Finally, the CA models are unique MkXIX models, in that they incorporate a firing pin block, but any (non-CA) MkXIX barrel can be used.



Actually, there have been 3 manufacturers, IMI/IWI (Israel), Saco (USA) and MRI (USA). Anybody that tells you Made in USA is better or worse than Made in Israel is full of it. Why should there be any difference? Worldwide manufacturing techniques are shared between contractor and contractee. Some people want an Israeli gun because they think that the Desert Eagle is a Israeli gun. That's not correct. Magnum Research is and always has been a US company. The gun was designed and patented by a US engineer working for MRI. Only because the first ones were manufactured under contract by IMI, makes people think the Desert Eagle is an Israeli gun. (Okay, IMI probably contributed design and manufacturing refinement during the initial stages of the contract.) MRI is the importer of several other IMI designs (such as the cosmetically similar Jericho 941 under the Baby Eagle name), thus contributing to the confusion. No matter if a DE was manufactured in Israel by IMI/IWI or Saco in Maine or by MRI in their MN facilties, over the years, MRI has always retained full ownership of the intellectual property. Finally, it should be noted that all the custom finishes have always been done in MN. MRI contractors have only delivered blued guns. Custom finished guns are blued guns stripped and refinished in MN no matter if orginally manufactured in Israel, Saco ME or Pillager MN.

So to clarify:
1982-1995 Made in Israel by IMI under contract to MRI
1995-1998 Made in USA by Saco under contract to MRI
1998-2009 Made in Israel by IMI (reorganized into IWI in 2005) under contract to MRI
2009-Present Made in USA by MRI
2010 Kahr purchases MRI
2011 (Classic DE) Made in Israel by IWI under contract to Kahr

Bottomline, the DE/Israeli connection is just fortuitous timing and good marketing. This took place in the early '80's, right after the Reagan assassination attempt where Uzi's instantly appeared in the hands of several Secret Service agents. Afterall, the thinking went, if the Israeli's made the weapon of choice to protect the POTUS, they certainly should know how to make one for me. So MRI didn't do much to counter the perception that the DE was another imported Israeli/IMI gun like the Uzi.

Great post!

My DE In stock is an IWI made in Israel gun. Apparently a container must have just arrived from the holy land......

coryb619
09-10-2012, 4:21 AM
MkI and MkVII pistols have the 3/8" dovetail, no slots. They were only chambered in .357Mag & .44Mag (& .41Mag in the case of MkVII). When the .50AE came out, the slide and barrel were enlarged, thus able to accomodate a larger 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top. Some time after the .50AE came out (originally not as a MkXIX, but just as a 50cal MkVII), the MkVII was discontinued and all calibers switched to the larger 7/8" slide as the MkXIX. Originally the 7/8" dovetail had only 2 slots, later a full picatinny rail was adopted (I think in 2009 when manufacture returned to USA, but I cannot confirm). The MkXIX calibers use a common slide, and only require a barrel and magazine change (and bolt in the case of .357Mag) to change calibers. There other subtle differences between the MkI, MkVII and MkXIX:

MkI:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Standard trigger
Teardrop safety

MkVII:
Barrel has 3/8" dovetail on top
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

MkXIX:
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

Note that the slots are on the barrel, not on the slide, .41Mag chambering has been discontinued and that any slide will fit on any frame, i.e., a MkXIX slide will fit on a MkI frame, or you can convert your MkVII to a MKXIX by just installing any MKXIX barrel and slide. Also, note that if you had a MkI or MkVII and wanted to shoot .50AE, you need to get a whole new slide. But, once you got that slide, you only need to get a new (MKXIX) barrel to switch to .44Mag or .357Mag (again a bolt change is needed for .357Mag). Finally, the CA models are unique MkXIX models, in that they incorporate a firing pin block, but any (non-CA) MkXIX barrel can be used.



Actually, there have been 3 manufacturers, IMI/IWI (Israel), Saco (USA) and MRI (USA). Anybody that tells you Made in USA is better or worse than Made in Israel is full of it. Why should there be any difference? Worldwide manufacturing techniques are shared between contractor and contractee. Some people want an Israeli gun because they think that the Desert Eagle is a Israeli gun. That's not correct. Magnum Research is and always has been a US company. The gun was designed and patented by a US engineer working for MRI. Only because the first ones were manufactured under contract by IMI, makes people think the Desert Eagle is an Israeli gun. (Okay, IMI probably contributed design and manufacturing refinement during the initial stages of the contract.) MRI is the importer of several other IMI designs (such as the cosmetically similar Jericho 941 under the Baby Eagle name), thus contributing to the confusion. No matter if a DE was manufactured in Israel by IMI/IWI or Saco in Maine or by MRI in their MN facilties, over the years, MRI has always retained full ownership of the intellectual property. Finally, it should be noted that all the custom finishes have always been done in MN. MRI contractors have only delivered blued guns. Custom finished guns are blued guns stripped and refinished in MN no matter if orginally manufactured in Israel, Saco ME or Pillager MN.

So to clarify:
1982-1995 Made in Israel by IMI under contract to MRI
1995-1998 Made in USA by Saco under contract to MRI
1998-2009 Made in Israel by IMI (reorganized into IWI in 2005) under contract to MRI
2009-Present Made in USA by MRI
2010 Kahr purchases MRI
2011 (Classic DE) Made in Israel by IWI under contract to Kahr

Bottomline, the DE/Israeli connection is just fortuitous timing and good marketing. This took place in the early '80's, right after the Reagan assassination attempt where Uzi's instantly appeared in the hands of several Secret Service agents. Afterall, the thinking went, if the Israeli's made the weapon of choice to protect the POTUS, they certainly should know how to make one for me. So MRI didn't do much to counter the perception that the DE was another imported Israeli/IMI gun like the Uzi.

Holy crap. Officially the encyclopedia of the DE lmao. So at least I was almost there..xix easier to convert than vii and no difference in manufacturers woohoo. I'll enjoy mine either way.

2ad have you put yours in jail yet??

joefrank64k
09-10-2012, 5:42 AM
What dachan said...:)

I've got a DE XIX in .50AE that I bought via SSE this year from EBR Works. I then bought a .44 barrel/mag from Grab-a-gun.com (best prices by a long shot). The barrel swaps in about 1 minute.

Mine is USA made. The "big" differences between the Israeli-made and USA-made are the grips, the style of the safety, and the barrel.

The Israeli-made comes with hard plastic grips, the older-style claw safety, and a two-piece barrel. Functionally, they both work the same, and the parts interchange. I wanted the soft rubber "Hogue-style" grips so I went with the USA-made.

I've shot my USA-made with .50AE and .44 mag from various makers and haven't had one problem. It's a heck of a fun gun to shoot! As others have said, you need to man-up when handling the DE...no limp wrist, a two-handed hold, good ammo, keep it lubricated, etc and it works great. VERY accurate, too!

Here's a link to the .pdf on Kahr's site that goes over the differences between Israel/USA:

http://www.kahr.com/newsletter/DE44W/DE44W-SS.pdf

*EDIT* They had a promotion for a free magazine if you bought an Israeli-made DE. The coupon shows the deal is expired, but I've heard that Kahr is still honoring it:

http://www.kahr.com/PDF/FDEWM2011.pdf

dachan
09-10-2012, 8:24 AM
JoeFrank,
Thanks for the links. Based upon the additional information, we can probably make the following differentiation, though not confirmed by MRI:

MkXIX (Pre-2009/Made in Israel):
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top, 2 slots
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

MkXIX (Post-2009/Made in USA):
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top, picatiny rail
Adjustable trigger
Teardrop safety

MkXIX Classic DE (2011/Made in Israel)
Barrel has 7/8" Weaver style dovetail on top, picatiny rail
Adjustable trigger
Hook shaped safety

There are also differences in the slide release lever between the different models. I'm not as familiar with when grip changes and when the 2pc vs 1pc barrels went into effect. I also think all .357Mag and .44Mag barrels were fluted at some point, but the .50AE has never been fluted. And CA models continue to be a special case, taking traits of both USA and Israel models because of mixing of parts.

2ndAmendmentDefender
09-10-2012, 10:46 AM
Holy crap. Officially the encyclopedia of the DE lmao. So at least I was almost there..xix easier to convert than vii and no difference in manufacturers woohoo. I'll enjoy mine either way.

2ad have you put yours in jail yet??

affirmative, called MRI this morning from gun shop w/ serial# off my proposed de44cabc and they confirmed its a boy, i mean israeli made, a 2012 model,

Some here may not care if these were born here or made in israel, but I just as well wanted the israeli made DE if possible, now I got it :D

darkest2000
09-10-2012, 2:55 PM
XIX is USA made.
My XIX is clearly marked Made in Israel.