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View Full Version : Sold a handgun. Do I need to tell CA DOJ?


ChrisKalan
09-06-2012, 11:34 AM
So I've bought and sold a couple of handguns within CA.

I've also sold a gun bought in CA, to someone out of state.

Do I need to tell anyone?

Or as the gun gets registered to the new buyer, databases get updated and it is no longer registered to me?

Cheers

44fred
09-06-2012, 11:36 AM
As long as you did a legal transfer you're GTG.

Fuel&Fire
09-06-2012, 11:42 AM
I sure hope you did a Transfer through an FFL...

Yugo
09-06-2012, 11:43 AM
:popcorn:

acolytes
09-06-2012, 12:00 PM
PPT face to face transfer at a FFL, good to go. If they were sold out of the trunk of your car or out of your garage with a hand shake.... Uh oh.

troysland
09-06-2012, 12:12 PM
:popcorn:

Good question, as you are already aware how it works within California. If sold out of state through an FFL, Would CADOJ be notified and drop your name as legal owner? I'm sure a concern would be that if it (your legal ownership status) never was dropped, and the handgun in question was involved in a criminal act, recovered and traced back to the CADOJ database, you would want your a** covered, right? Not sure if Databases between states can be cross referenced, but yeah.....Good Question.

Quiet
09-06-2012, 12:13 PM
So I've bought and sold a couple of handguns within CA.

I've also sold a gun bought in CA, to someone out of state.

Do I need to tell anyone?

Or as the gun gets registered to the new buyer, databases get updated and it is no longer registered to me?

Cheers

As long as all the transfers were done through a FFL dealer, then you are good-to-go and you do not have to do anything, because it all gets reported during the transfer via the CA FFL dealer (nothing gets reported by the out-of-state FFL dealer).

If you sold them without using a FFL dealer, then you violated CA state laws and Federal laws. Misdemeanors for selling without using a FFL dealer, unless the buyers are prohibited persons, than it's felonies. Federal felony for selling to a non-resident of CA.

Quiet
09-06-2012, 12:16 PM
:popcorn:

Good question, as you are already aware how it works within California. If sold out of state through an FFL, Would CADOJ be notified and drop your name as legal owner? I'm sure a concern would be that if it (your legal ownership status) never was dropped, and the handgun in question was involved in a criminal act, recovered and traced back to the CADOJ database, you would want your a** covered, right? Not sure if Databases between states can be cross referenced, but yeah.....Good Question.
For handguns...
Buyer gets registered as the current owner and the seller gets "registered" as the previous owner.
Not sure if it's still there, but LE use to be able to access a list of previous owners of the handgun via AFS (CLETS).

NytWolf
09-06-2012, 12:19 PM
As long as all the transfers were done through a FFL dealer, then you are good-to-go and you do not have to do anything, because it all gets reported during the transfer via the FFL dealer.

If you sold them without using a FFL dealer, then you violated CA state laws and Federal laws. Misdemeanors for selling without using a FFL dealer, unless the buyers are prohibited persons, than it's felonies. Federal felony for selling to a non-resident of CA.

Are you sure? Is the out of state FFL required to notify CA's DOJ that the firearm was sold to the new owner? When the CA FFL transfers the gun, it is transferred to the new owner only. The FFL does not notify DOJ to release ownership of the gun.

Quiet
09-06-2012, 12:28 PM
Are you sure? Is the out of state FFL required to notify CA's DOJ that the firearm was sold to the new owner? When the CA FFL transfers the gun, it is transferred to the new owner only. The FFL does not notify DOJ to release ownership of the gun.

Out-of-state FFL dealers are not required to notify and usually do not.
Which is the reason why CA DOJ allows the CA resident that transferred the firearm to voluntarily report the transfer (requires documentation from the out-if-state FFL dealer).

CA FFL dealer collects the seller's info and that info gets sent to CA DOJ.
Seller gets registered as the firearm's previous owner.
This is so when LE looks up a firearm in regards to a criminal investigations, they can access a list of previous owner's of that firearm.

PolishMike
09-06-2012, 12:32 PM
Out-of-state FFL dealers are not required to notify and usually do not.
Which is the reason why CA DOJ allows the CA resident that transferred the firearm to voluntarily report the transfer (requires documentation from the out-if-state FFL dealer).

CA FFL dealer collects the seller's info and that info gets sent to CA DOJ.
Seller gets registered as the firearm's previous owner.
This is so when LE looks up a firearm in regards to a criminal investigations, they can access a list of previous owner's of that firearm.


Whaaaaaat?

There is no way I can collect the seller's info and send it to the DOJ.

If you sell a gun out of state you need to fill out a "no longer in possession" form to get it out of your AFS.

Otherwise it will still be "registered" to you in CA. Remember, there is NO way for dealers outside of CA to remove you.

Quiet
09-06-2012, 12:36 PM
Penal Code 28060
The Attorney General shall adopt regulations under this chapter to do all of the following:
(a) Allow the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm, and the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, to complete a sale, loan, or transfer through a dealer, and to allow those persons and the dealer to preserve the confidentiality of those records and to comply with the requirements of this chapter and all of the following:
(1) Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(2) Article 1 (commencing with Section 27500) of Chapter 4.
(3) Article 2 (commencing with Section 28150) of Chapter 6.
(4) Article 3 (commencing with Section 28200) of Chapter 6.
(b) Record sufficient information for purposes of Section 11106 in the instance where a firearm is returned to a personal firearm importer because a sale or transfer of that firearm by the personal firearm importer could not be completed.
(c) Ensure that the register or record of electronic transfer shall state all of the following:
(1) The name and address of the seller or transferor of the firearm or the person loaning the firearm.
(2) Whether or not the person is a personal firearm importer.
(3) Any other information required by Article 2 (commencing with Section 28150) of Chapter 6.

PolishMike
09-06-2012, 12:39 PM
Penal Code 28060
The Attorney General shall adopt regulations under this chapter to do all of the following:
(a) Allow the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm, and the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, to complete a sale, loan, or transfer through a dealer, and to allow those persons and the dealer to preserve the confidentiality of those records and to comply with the requirements of this chapter and all of the following:
(1) Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(2) Article 1 (commencing with Section 27500) of Chapter 4.
(3) Article 2 (commencing with Section 28150) of Chapter 6.
(4) Article 3 (commencing with Section 28200) of Chapter 6.
(b) Record sufficient information for purposes of Section 11106 in the instance where a firearm is returned to a personal firearm importer because a sale or transfer of that firearm by the personal firearm importer could not be completed.
(c) Ensure that the register or record of electronic transfer shall state all of the following:
(1) The name and address of the seller or transferor of the firearm or the person loaning the firearm.
(2) Whether or not the person is a personal firearm importer.
(3) Any other information required by Article 2 (commencing with Section 28150) of Chapter 6.

Not sure what you are trying to prove? This is all PPT stuff. Does not apply if he sold it out of state

ChrisKalan
09-06-2012, 1:45 PM
All sales where done through FFLS.

My major worry was whether the out of state sale would update the CA DOJ.

Looks like I will be sending a 'no longer in possession' form to CA DOJ.

mmayer707
09-06-2012, 4:14 PM
All sales where done through FFLS.

My major worry was whether the out of state sale would update the CA DOJ.

Looks like I will be sending a 'no longer in possession' form to CA DOJ.

Good stuff. For a second there I thought you just sold them out of your trunk in a Walmart parking lot. :43:

kentactic
09-06-2012, 4:18 PM
I got scared, my advice before your last post was going to be "Report the guns stolen ASAP" ...glad this story ended well. And JK i dont advocate false claims of theft.

lapsbpbep
09-06-2012, 7:21 PM
What if u sell at a gun show in reno how do u handle it you are out side of california so califonia laws would not be in forced or would they for pistol. And for rifle too just wanting. To know and if u buy a gun from some one at a show how do you do paper work on it. If you do not go though ffl.

monk
09-06-2012, 7:26 PM
What if u sell at a gun show in reno how do u handle it you are out side of california so califonia laws would not be in forced or would they for pistol. And for rifle too just wanting. To know and if u buy a gun from some one at a show how do you do paper work on it. If you do not go though ffl.

http://www.gunlaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=83