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DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 3:04 PM
I am new here and have not shot a handgun (until recently) in about 30 years. I have a need for one and am applying for a CCW. Thank said, I have a question for some of you folks regarding sights and poor eyesight.

Back when I used to shoot quite a bit (1970's and 80's) my vision was very good up close and good at a distance. Now I'm 53, had laser correction and my distance vision is extremely sharp but my up-close vision is horrible out to about 4'.

I have a dilemmna of using my reading glasses to see my sights (making the target a complete blurr) - OR - going without the glasses (making the target clear, but my sights a complete blurr). So far as I know, I cannot use lasers on a concealed-carry pistol in CA legally.

Is there anything out there that would fix this problem - either in sights or another type of vision correction? Laser Grips would solve the problem, but I can't do that if I want to conceal carry.

I would appreciate any constructive input.

Thanks in advance!

asgalindez
09-05-2012, 3:13 PM
I was always taught to focus on the front sight, like you were trying to see every little imperfection. The front sight will be crystal clear, your rear sight and target will be somewhat blurred.

You should try this out at the range and decide if you need to do anything after seeing the results.

InGrAM
09-05-2012, 3:16 PM
Ghost ring or peep dot sights work well for my Father.

tal3nt
09-05-2012, 3:17 PM
No first hand experience with them, but Truglo TFO (tritium fiber optic) sights are supposed to be excellent for those with less than average eyesight

leadstorm
09-05-2012, 3:19 PM
There's no law against using lasers on carry pistols/revolvers in California.

Some issuing agencies, however, do not allow handguns with laser sights to be included on permits. It's strictly a policy of these issuing agencies.

Where do you live?

leadstorm
09-05-2012, 3:20 PM
Oh, and if your issuing agency does not allow laser sights, I recommend XS Big Dot sights. They're great.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 3:22 PM
No first hand experience with them, but Truglo TFO (tritium fiber optic) sights are supposed to be excellent for those with less than average eyesight

I tried a set of these on a rental at a range and - if they were bigger diameter they would have worked. I'll look for some different sizes. Thanks for the manufacturer name. :)

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 3:24 PM
There's no law against using lasers on carry pistols/revolvers in California.

Some issuing agencies, however, do not allow handguns with laser sights to be included on permits. It's strictly a policy of these issuing agencies.

Where do you live?

Contra Costa County - where I'm told it may be near impossible to get a CCW. The application states no lasers or any other modifications.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 3:27 PM
I was always taught to focus on the front sight, like you were trying to see every little imperfection. The front sight will be crystal clear, your rear sight and target will be somewhat blurred.

You should try this out at the range and decide if you need to do anything after seeing the results.

Front site is a blur without reading glasses - it's that bad. I'll keep your suggestion in mind when I find some better sights though. I appreciate the insight (pardon the pun). :)

Ghost ring or peep dot sights work well for my Father.

I'll Google them or ask about them where I picked up the pistol. Thanks.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 3:27 PM
Oh, and if your issuing agency does not allow laser sights, I recommend XS Big Dot sights. They're great.

Googling them now. Thanks!

psango
09-05-2012, 3:40 PM
Bi-focals are great for this, You could have your optometrist order up some with the reading glasses in the lower portion and clear glass in the upper.

at 65 I'm wearing blended trifocals. I can see the front sight in the middle portion and the target in the top. I had them build me a set just for range use. My doc is a shooter my age, and knew just what I needed.

JMP
09-05-2012, 3:44 PM
I have noticed a big difference in sights if I am shooting indoor vs. outdoor. Just saying.

asgalindez
09-05-2012, 3:45 PM
Question: If you get your CCW, and find yourself in a situation where you may need to use your weapon, do you usually have your glasses on, or do you only wear them when needed?

Whatisthis?
09-05-2012, 3:49 PM
If a laser is not allowed, I guess a Trijicon RMR on a G26 would probably be out as well. If they are allowed, they look fantastic but could cost quite a bit of money. I would recommend XS big dot night sights unless you have a lot of money lying around... or do something with your glasses and not actually modifying the gun (i.e someone said bi-focals)

leadstorm
09-05-2012, 3:50 PM
Googling them now. Thanks!I let a buddy shoot my Glock with the Big Dots - he is 61 years old, and was not wearing glasses of any sort (he needs reading glasses inside of 3'-4'). He is now ordering sets of Big Dots for all his carry guns.

They are not a precision/bullseye sight - they are an excellent combat sight.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 4:02 PM
Question: If you get your CCW, and find yourself in a situation where you may need to use your weapon, do you usually have your glasses on, or do you only wear them when needed?

THAT is a great question - and the all-important one! Really depends. If I'm working they're on about 60 percent of the time. My most anticipate need would be while working in "blighted areas" in some SF Bay Area and Central Valley cities. I go into places where "residents" are often squatting and the "police escorts" I used to get have been cut due to budget issues. Might look at the blended-bifocal solution someone just mentioned.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 4:03 PM
I let a buddy shoot my Glock with the Big Dots - he is 61 years old, and was not wearing glasses of any sort (he needs reading glasses inside of 3'-4'). He is now ordering sets of Big Dots for all his carry guns.

They are not a precision/bullseye sight - they are an excellent combat sight.

I'm gonna try these I think. I noticed that sights with larger dots DID help at the range.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 4:05 PM
I have noticed a big difference in sights if I am shooting indoor vs. outdoor. Just saying.

I noticed this as well. At an indoor range with lights on the target the sights are much less visible. What I really need is to figure what would work in a normal "situation" lighting scenario. Thanks.

VMCJ-3
09-05-2012, 4:08 PM
I just shot a IDPA match, for the first time in awhile. I was not pleased when my old eyes seemed to want to go from right eye dominant, to left eye dominant.
It was my first time out with my G34, and the GNS were just a blur. I've got a Dawson fiber optic on the front of my SSP/Production gun, I think that I will check out the Big Dots for the Glock.

HighLander51
09-05-2012, 4:14 PM
Is there anything out there that would fix this problem - either in sights or another type of vision correction? Laser Grips would solve the problem, but I can't do that if I want to conceal carry.

I would appreciate any constructive input.

Thanks in advance!

Lasers and trick sights will not fix your problem. You need to get an intermediate correction by an eye doctor that causes you to focus on the front sight, it has to be razor sharp, not bifocals, or trifocals, just a new pair of glasses. The target and the rear sights can be blurred, that doesn't matter. The typical correction is dominant eye to front sight and weak eye to infinity.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 4:14 PM
If a laser is not allowed, I guess a Trijicon RMR on a G26 would probably be out as well. If they are allowed, they look fantastic but could cost quite a bit of money. I would recommend XS big dot night sights unless you have a lot of money lying around... or do something with your glasses and not actually modifying the gun (i.e someone said bi-focals)

I just Googled that - how cool! I want it! It's worth asking at least if it's possible... :cool:

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 4:19 PM
Lasers and trick sights will not fix your problem. You need to get an intermediate correction by an eye doctor that causes you to focus on the front sight, it has to be razor sharp, not bifocals, or trifocals, just a new pair of glasses. The target and the rear sights can be blurred, that doesn't matter. The typical correction is dominant eye to front sight and weak eye to infinity.

With my glasses I can focus well on my front sight - but my target is soooooo blurred as to make it it nearly indistinguishable from its surroundings. Not a good thing in a sticky situation... Oh to have the vision I had when I was 20! :D

HighLander51
09-05-2012, 4:22 PM
With my glasses I can focus well on my front sight - but my target is soooooo blurred as to make it it nearly indistinguishable from its surroundings. Not a good thing in a sticky situation... Oh to have the vision I had when I was 20! :D

Yea, well me too. Nothing like the ability to see .2LR holes at 100 yards, but now I can't see 9mm holes past about 12 yards, and I still do quite well in USPSA/Steel Challenge and 3 Gun.

True, an optic (dot) is an option, but you will need alot of time on the gun to get fast at acquiring targets. You won't need correction for a dot because it projects on the target in the same focal plane. I have 2 Open Glocks with dots for competition, but for carry, I prefer regular sights.

Open Dot
http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image35455.jpg

http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image34614.jpg

carry guns (2 in the middle)

http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image35447.jpg

tal3nt
09-05-2012, 4:24 PM
I'll mention another brand of sights that just came to mind (that I have no experience with) that may be like something you are looking for. Advantage Tactical sights, it's the one that lines up like a pyramid.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 4:34 PM
You folks have been a HUGE help to this new kid on the block. For someone that's been away from it for a while - it's almost information overload. You've given me a lot to think about and look into - and if nothing else - the right questions to ask. A very big THANKS to you all.

I'll check back in. Hope this thread helps someone else in the same boat as well.

asgalindez
09-05-2012, 4:43 PM
With my glasses I can focus well on my front sight - but my target is soooooo blurred as to make it it nearly indistinguishable from its surroundings. Not a good thing in a sticky situation... Oh to have the vision I had when I was 20! :D

Is this the case at any distance? How bad is the target out to 20yds or so?

In a defensive situation as a CCW holder, I am assuming you will be engaging targets at close range. Hard to justify (in CA, at least) why you felt you needed to shoot a guy 50yds away from you.

But I'm not a CCW holder. I'm just working off assumptions here.

unusedusername
09-05-2012, 6:09 PM
If they won't let you put a laser on a carry gun, then why would they let you change the sights?

It is the same thing, isn't it?

Both of these requirements are not codified in law, so perhaps you should post about it in the LTC forum and help the right people to fix it.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 6:19 PM
Is this the case at any distance? How bad is the target out to 20yds or so?

In a defensive situation as a CCW holder, I am assuming you will be engaging targets at close range. Hard to justify (in CA, at least) why you felt you needed to shoot a guy 50yds away from you.

But I'm not a CCW holder. I'm just working off assumptions here.

10 yard - 15 yards - 20 yards --- if my reading glasses are on to see my sights - it's all a blur at any of those distances. If my glasses are off all those distances are crystal clear and my sights are a blur.

HighLander51
09-05-2012, 6:25 PM
10 yard - 15 yards - 20 yards --- if my reading glasses are on to see my sights - it's all a blur at any of those distances. If my glasses are off all those distances are crystal clear and my sights are a blur.

You won't hit anything unless your front sight is razor sharp.

Rangem4
09-05-2012, 6:27 PM
Bi-focals are great for this, You could have your optometrist order up some with the reading glasses in the lower portion and clear glass in the upper.

at 65 I'm wearing blended trifocals. I can see the front sight in the middle portion and the target in the top. I had them build me a set just for range use. My doc is a shooter my age, and knew just what I needed.

What a great idea, the top lens for the long distance or target, the middle for front site front site and the lower for looking at your firearm to load or inspect etc.
Good idea!
My Eye Doctor and I are going to have a talk.

DeltaBishop
09-05-2012, 6:34 PM
If they won't let you put a laser on a carry gun, then why would they let you change the sights?

It is the same thing, isn't it?

Both of these requirements are not codified in law, so perhaps you should post about it in the LTC forum and help the right people to fix it.

Seems the only laser that would work in a CC situation are activated by the grips - if you're needing to turn on a laser with a switch - that's not a good thing. Grips must be "standard" according to the application from the Sherriff while sights can be "fixed or adjustable." According to an instructor, lasers were illegal for CCW in CA - but he never cited a Code.

My understanding is that any site that fits the gun as designed by the manufacturer would be fine.

Maybe I am taking the instructor's statement as fact when I shouldn't be... I suppose I'm too new to know.

Whats the "LTC Forum"?

Legasat
09-05-2012, 6:55 PM
I wear glasses with "progressive" lenses. They are ground so that they gradually progress from near sighted to far sighted (reading at the bottom of the lens, distance at the top of the lens, no lines).

I had a special pair made just for shooting, with the lenses ground from polycarbonate (safety lens material that meets the ANSI Z87.1-2003 standard). I had them made so the focus point is for about 3 ft. I'm sure if work with your Ophthalmologist or Optometrist, you can find a workable solution.

Hopalong
09-05-2012, 6:57 PM
You need trifocals.

Yeah, I don't like it either.

becxltoo984
09-05-2012, 6:58 PM
XS big dot sights are designed for quick sight acquisition at the expense of accuracy . I know this all to well after buy two set's for my Glock 19 And 23 .

What the manufacture wont tell you about these sights . once installed to adjust or remove the sights for any gunsmith work - will in fact destroy them . The sur-lok 1262 solution used' to install the sights require heat to melt the bound between the slide and the sight . That much heat kills the tritium vial . Not making this up . I contacted their support and that's the answer I received . :(

leadstorm
09-05-2012, 8:13 PM
XS big dot sights are designed for quick sight acquisition at the expense of accuracyYou are correct and we agree on this point. You have to ask yourself what you're after, though. The OP is looking for sights for a defensive carry gun.

I have had several pistols with "traditional" three-dot Trijicon night sights. They do not line up incredibly quickly in the dark. In the daytime, the notch-and-posts are great for precision shooting, but it takes a bit of time between shots to realign properly.

The Big Dots are very reflexive. They certianly won't chew one ragged hole, but they will (at least for me) put all the bullets within the center portion of the torso very, very rapidly and very intuitively.

psango
09-05-2012, 10:07 PM
+1 on the big dot or fiber optic sights.

In a SD However, I would be pointing shooting without sights at distances less than 15 yards. At 15 yard the the big dot or fiber front sight would be a major help to me, at 25 yards my back is turned and I'm running away. (I moved all my armor panels to the back of my vest, just kidding).

My vision went bad in my 40's I was able to make it to retirement with my try-focal lenses. You do have to adjust tactics for your own requirements. As Harry would say "man has to know his limitations".

With my vision I often thought I would be better off shooting myself if I lost my glasses. I'm retired now so no longer caring for duty, just ccw.

myusername
09-05-2012, 10:13 PM
Get a Judge. Problem solved. ;)

Oh, yeah, I forgot, it's California... sigh.

fcr
09-05-2012, 10:20 PM
I have the exact same issue, lost my up close after corrective surgery. I finally decided on the Trijicon HD over the XS, It seems more accurate for me. Thats just punching paper. I like the rear sight design better for my purpose too.

Vinnie
09-05-2012, 10:53 PM
This helped me in a big way:

http://app4.websitetonight.com/projects2/7/1/4/7/1847417/uploads/GhostRings_Finished.JPG

Had a piece of 1/4" pipe cut and welded into a drilled out standard sight on my CZ-75D Compact (PCR). That, with a bright fiber front made all the difference in the world. A person's brain naturally wants to keep the red dot in the center of the circle. So, if you see your target through the ring when you pull the trigger, odds are your round landed in the right place.

Set-up provides me with fast target acquisition and good enough accuracy out to about 30 or 40 feet.

Vinnie



ps - every person who has fired this gun expressed a similar reaction.. that it was easy to keep on target

.

DeltaBishop
09-06-2012, 10:56 AM
This helped me in a big way:

http://app4.websitetonight.com/projects2/7/1/4/7/1847417/uploads/GhostRings_Finished.JPG

Had a piece of 1/4" pipe cut and welded into a drilled out standard sight on my CZ-75D Compact (PCR). That, with a bright fiber front made all the difference in the world. A person's brain naturally wants to keep the red dot in the center of the circle. So, if you see your target through the ring when you pull the trigger, odds are your round landed in the right place.

Set-up provides me with fast target acquisition and good enough accuracy out to about 30 or 40 feet.

Vinnie



ps - every person who has fired this gun expressed a similar reaction.. that it was easy to keep on target

.

Vinnie - I'm printing this out and taking it to the shop to see if they can do something like this. I've been reading more about ghost rings and it seems intuitive for fast acquisition and a decent aim in situations like mine.

I AM going to look at no-line tri-focals though - even though it kills me to admit I need them. Uhg...

DeltaBishop
09-06-2012, 11:10 AM
+1 on the big dot or fiber optic sights.

In a SD However, I would be pointing shooting without sights at distances less than 15 yards. At 15 yard the the big dot or fiber front sight would be a major help to me, at 25 yards my back is turned and I'm running away. (I moved all my armor panels to the back of my vest, just kidding).
My vision went bad in my 40's I was able to make it to retirement with my try-focal lenses. You do have to adjust tactics for your own requirements. As Harry would say "man has to know his limitations".

With my vision I often thought I would be better off shooting myself if I lost my glasses. I'm retired now so no longer caring for duty, just ccw.

That made me laugh... :)

voiceofreason
09-06-2012, 12:58 PM
Google Hexsite

You look THROUGH them

I've never used them

An older trainer I trust recommends them for older /poor eyesight

voiceofreason
09-06-2012, 12:59 PM
Fiber optics fall out BTW

DeltaBishop
09-06-2012, 2:12 PM
Google Hexsite

You look THROUGH them

I've never used them

An older trainer I trust recommends them for older /poor eyesight

Looks like a ghost ring - but better! The hexagonal ring design naturally and intuitively seems to help you find the "precise center." Makes sense - and they make it for my Kahr.

Thanks.

Lead Waster
09-06-2012, 2:56 PM
Although it's best to be able to focus on the front sight...YOU MUST ABSOLUTELY SEE YOUR TARGET CLEARLY!

Why? Because that thing that looks like a bad guy coming right at you with a machete is actually my Aunt Bertha holding an umbrella.

Oh, and what's that behind the target? I dunno, it's some kind of blur, maybe a fire hydrant? Wrong! It's a baby in a stroller!

Seriously, don't be shooting at blurs.

Old4eyes
09-06-2012, 11:03 PM
I use progressive bi-focal glasses for normal use. But my shooting glasses are hard line bi-focal. I had the near focus area cut very high. I tilt my head down to view through the upper portion to view the target, and with my head neutral I view the front sight with the enlarged lower section. I am able to focus on the front sight faster the I can with progressive bifocals.

While this works quite well for dedicated shooting glasses at the range, it might not do so well in day to day life. Ain't growing old just a bucket of fun?

morfeeis
09-07-2012, 8:20 AM
Oh, and if your issuing agency does not allow laser sights, I recommend XS Big Dot sights. They're great.
I'd recommend the XS sight system, i have low vision and they helped more then i ever thought possible......