PDA

View Full Version : Want to remove Mag Disconnet from M&P


kmaultsby
09-04-2012, 11:45 AM
Is it illegal to remove the magazine disconnect from Smith & Wesson M&P pistol in California? The reason I am asking is because I use one for IDPA and the range officers get very uncomfortable when unload and show clear and they don't here a click after I complete a stage, and of course I do not like it either.

P220
09-04-2012, 11:57 AM
The stupid Mag safety? I remove mine as soon as take the M&P home. I cut a ball pen spring holding the filed strip lever(can be removed too).
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/621/644/254/1277340756761_hz-myalibaba-temp11_416.jpg
The mag safety make me feel "unsafe" when I am practicing dry fire. Maybe police offices like it since they open carry. But for me, it's stupid.

XDRoX
09-04-2012, 12:01 PM
It's legal to remove.

SilverTauron
09-04-2012, 12:12 PM
It is completely legal, just ensure that you only use the weapon for competition only-or re-install the mag disconnect before using it for home defense/CCW. Lawyers have enough reasons to castigate a defending citizen already. ;)

sholling
09-04-2012, 12:15 PM
I removed it from all three of mine.

littlejake
09-04-2012, 12:35 PM
It is completely legal, just ensure that you only use the weapon for competition only-or re-install the mag disconnect before using it for home defense/CCW. Lawyers have enough reasons to castigate a defending citizen already. ;)

A little topic drift.... suppose you sell it? Of course one would make full disclosure; but would you put it back in?

patrickstarfish
09-04-2012, 1:23 PM
Do prosecutors tear down handguns that are involved in SD cases? Do you have to disclose all the mods you've done to your handgun?

Sam
09-04-2012, 2:26 PM
Do prosecutors tear down handguns that are involved in SD cases? Do you have to disclose all the mods you've done to your handgun?

I'm not sure if prosecutors would think to closely examine a gun used in a self defense shooting. However, you aren't required to say anything to the police, to the district attorney, to the state, etc.

There are always lots of comments about not making modifications to a serious use gun because of the overreaching prosecutor/civil attorney. Yet, I've yet to see anyone come up with a citation of an attorney using a modification to a handgun as evidence against the shooter.

GMG
09-04-2012, 2:41 PM
A fairly inexpensive fix that can be reversed.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/546264/smith-and-wesson-sear-housing-block-without-integral-lock-and-magazine-safety-s-and-w-m-and-p-m-and-p-compact-9mm-luger-357-sig-40-s-and-w

gorenut
09-04-2012, 2:44 PM
A little topic drift.... suppose you sell it? Of course one would make full disclosure; but would you put it back in?

I'm guessing it'd actually be a bonus if you sold it with it removed. You should definitely tell the buyer that you removed it and ask if he wants it back in.. but chances are, no one wants it in there.

When I got my 22/45.. one of the first things I did was remove the mag detach safety. Immediately gun performed better. Mags dropped down freely and it was far less of a headache to disassemble.

Gryff
09-04-2012, 2:50 PM
Do prosecutors tear down handguns that are involved in SD cases? Do you have to disclose all the mods you've done to your handgun?

More importantly...can you guarantee they won't? Remember that there are prosecutors with completely ****ed up moral compasses (one of them is now our state Attorney General), and I wouldn't put it past them to throw the accusations against you just to see what sticks.

lilro
09-04-2012, 2:59 PM
It is completely legal, just ensure that you only use the weapon for competition only-or re-install the mag disconnect before using it for home defense/CCW. Lawyers have enough reasons to castigate a defending citizen already. ;)

I could see something possibly happening with a modded trigger, but with a mag disconnect? Unless you sleep with a round in the chamber and no magazine, I don't even see how it could be relevant to a case.

patrickstarfish
09-04-2012, 3:04 PM
It's not like you're going to a SD shooting without a magazine in the gun?!?
I would remove the mag disconnect...and will as soon as I get an M&P.

kmaultsby
09-04-2012, 8:17 PM
Thanks everyone I checked Midway USA and it is out of stock. I did check out other web sights that I can do the upgrade myself.

Bug Splat
09-04-2012, 8:47 PM
Just remove all that crap including the "takedown" lever and put it in a ziplock bag back in the case. If you ever sell it just re-install them. No reason to buy, cut or replace anything. Remove the two arms and the springs and put the pin back in. Done.

SilverTauron
09-04-2012, 9:09 PM
I could see something possibly happening with a modded trigger, but with a mag disconnect? Unless you sleep with a round in the chamber and no magazine, I don't even see how it could be relevant to a case.

"Your Honor, Lilro would have us believe he's just a conscientious homeowner startled in the middle of the night defending himself. But I ask you and the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, why is it that this supposedly reasonable man took it upon himself to disable a safety device on a LETHAL WEAPON.

Mr. Lilro, are you affiliated with Smith and Wesson? Are you an engineer?"

****crickets******

"If a man is reckless enough to disable a safety device on a DEADLY WEAPON, who is to say he wasn't looking for someone to kill that night?And my client, poor Gang S. Banger , just had the misfortune to think he just locked himself out of his home that night."


Court is not an arena based on the rules of logic and common sense. The attorney who is most convincing, lie or truth, is the victor.The decision is ultimately up to the OP, but when it comes to my freedom and estate I don't like to gamble.A jury of our peers will not be 12 guys from the local gun club. :(

As to the authorities discovering modifications to a firearm, a wise police department would inspect weapons taken into their custody, so as to prevent claims of abuse or maltreatment of the gun during its stay in the evidence locker. A slick prosecutor can also order the gun tested by LE for the specific purpose of unsafe modifications.

patrickstarfish
09-04-2012, 9:36 PM
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I was protecting my family with all means available, especially with a lethal offensive weapon.

And hopefully, I would be able to preserve my family's lives.

patrickstarfish
09-04-2012, 9:47 PM
My lethal offensive weapon, would be an M&P modified with hard sear, RAM and mag disconnect disabled. Nothing fancy, over-the-counter products, your jury...

Grumpyoldretiredcop
09-04-2012, 9:52 PM
I'd worry a lot more about a home done "trigger job" (not referring to over-the-counter parts here) than I would in removing a magazine safety which is not found on all models of a particular weapon. Just my .02 from over a decade spent in courtrooms (and I mean all day, not as a witness) - advice free and worth what it costs. :D

patrickstarfish
09-04-2012, 9:52 PM
...and I handloaded my ammunition.

Bug Splat
09-04-2012, 9:55 PM
Nothing illegal about modding your own firearms. All this talk about a homeowner being dragged through the mud over a modification if just FUD. I'll retract this statement if anyone can show me where someone was convicted for defending their life with an "unsafe" firearm.

ElDub1950
09-04-2012, 10:29 PM
Don't know about court cases. My only reason for not doing would be that my county's CCW Policy states:

"The alteration of any previously approved weapon including, but not limited to adjusting trigger pull, adding laser sights or modifications shall void any license and serve as grounds for revocation."

I like my LTC so I keep mine stock.

InGrAM
09-04-2012, 10:52 PM
Don't know about court cases. My only reason for not doing would be that my county's CCW Policy states:

"The alteration of any previously approved weapon including, but not limited to adjusting trigger pull, adding laser sights or modifications shall void any license and serve as grounds for revocation."

I like my LTC so I keep mine stock.

That sucks,

Can't wait til Sac County does the same.... :rolleyes:

Sakiri
09-04-2012, 11:23 PM
Do tell me, exactly why they think a mag disconnect is a good idea again?

I mean, I can see the logic behind a LCI... except that the gun is always loaded. Even when it isn't. Seems to be beyond them.

ElDub1950
09-04-2012, 11:45 PM
Do tell me, exactly why they think a mag disconnect is a good idea again?

I mean, I can see the logic behind a LCI... except that the gun is always loaded. Even when it isn't. Seems to be beyond them.

There have been fools who rack the slide to clear a round, BEFORE dropping the mag and end up shooting their kid. Penalize all of us to protect the stupid.

InGrAM
09-04-2012, 11:52 PM
Do tell me, exactly why they think a mag disconnect is a good idea again?

I mean, I can see the logic behind a LCI... except that the gun is always loaded. Even when it isn't. Seems to be beyond them.

Cop's can drop the magazine and go to a secondary if a criminal gets a hold of their primary firearm. That is about the only situation I can see a magazine disconnect being a "good thing."

But it is politics plain and simple.

scootle
09-05-2012, 2:46 AM
OP: another source for the desired part...

http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=103_90_191&products_id=1058

mag disco is only required to be listed on the CA DOJ roster... what you do with it afterwards as an owner is your own business. :)

dwtt
09-05-2012, 7:59 AM
OP: another source for the desired part...

http://www.speedshooterspecialties.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=103_90_191&products_id=1058

I don't see the need for doing things the complicated way and install a longer spring. I removed the magazine disconnect on my M&P and put in its place a small piece of 1/8" thick sheet aluminum I found in the scrap bin at work. You can probably find similar material in your garage. Just drill a small hole big enough to fit onto the shaft, then cut out a small piece to fit in the gun frame. That's all you need to do.

Sakiri
09-05-2012, 1:31 PM
There have been fools who rack the slide to clear a round, BEFORE dropping the mag and end up shooting their kid. Penalize all of us to protect the stupid.

Sounds about right.

ZombieTactics
09-05-2012, 2:22 PM
[I]
"Your Honor, Lilro would have us believe ...

The nature of the way you present the case reveals you have absolutely zero idea how the trial process works. You can't make closing arguments in the middle of examination or cross-examination, for one thing.

For another, a defendant is not required to take the stand at all. The prosecution is not even allowed to call a defendant to the stand. Most defense attorneys won't allow it, unless there is a compelling reason to believe that the testimony offered would be a total slam-dunk. The rules for cross examination of a defendant are such that you almost never can introduce new evidence or argument which was not presented in his forgoing testimony. If the defense didn't ask questions about weapons modifications, you can't bring it up during cross-examination.

Any evidence, or argument presented to the court is already known by both the prosecution and defense. This is part of what happens in the discovery phase of the trial. If the prosecution plans on introducing anything about modifications to the gun or anything else, it will be known well ahead of time. There are no "surprise revelations" like on TV. Attempts to "catch" a defendant with a new/unknown line of questioning like that you present will likely result in a mistrial. If not, acquittal on appeal is a very strong likelihood.

Generally an argument of "depraved indifference" or "homicidal mindset" requires the performance of an act which is itself either illegal or at least highly unusual in nature. It also has to have material effect upon the facts of the case. So, unless it has been argued that the weapon was unintentionally discharged, it likely won't even be allowed by the judge.

Nice try. Watch less TV and get back to us.

patrickstarfish
09-05-2012, 7:02 PM
:thumbsup:

^^^I am all ears when someone experienced speaks. ^^^

Thank you.

sholling
09-05-2012, 9:22 PM
Do prosecutors tear down handguns that are involved in SD cases? Do you have to disclose all the mods you've done to your handgun?
I wouldn't sell it without putting the disconnect back in. The potential legal liability if the new owner NDs is too great.

More importantly...can you guarantee they won't? Remember that there are prosecutors with completely ****ed up moral compasses (one of them is now our state Attorney General), and I wouldn't put it past them to throw the accusations against you just to see what sticks.

It's NOT a safety. It's a magazine disconnect and has nothing to do with safety. It simply makes it useless when the magazine is removed for a reload. IMNAL but in my opinion any competent attorney would make a DA sound like a buffoon for even bringing it up.

Donn32
09-06-2012, 6:45 PM
Hey kmaultsby, I totaly understand. I too have a M&P and shoot IDPA and get disappointing looks regarding the magazine safety. I removed it myself by watching all the you tube videos and it was easy. Im a woman and did it myself. Last match was sooo nice to not have to worry about it. Stores have to sell it that way but we dont have to keep it that way. Now, time for the Apex trigger job! Good luck and have fun shooting!

dmmikhail
09-06-2012, 7:07 PM
"Your Honor, Lilro would have us believe he's just a conscientious homeowner startled in the middle of the night defending himself. But I ask you and the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, why is it that this supposedly reasonable man took it upon himself to disable a safety device on a LETHAL WEAPON.

Mr. Lilro, are you affiliated with Smith and Wesson? Are you an engineer?"

****crickets******

"If a man is reckless enough to disable a safety device on a DEADLY WEAPON, who is to say he wasn't looking for someone to kill that night?And my client, poor Gang S. Banger , just had the misfortune to think he just locked himself out of his home that night."


Court is not an arena based on the rules of logic and common sense. The attorney who is most convincing, lie or truth, is the victor.The decision is ultimately up to the OP, but when it comes to my freedom and estate I don't like to gamble.A jury of our peers will not be 12 guys from the local gun club. :(

As to the authorities discovering modifications to a firearm, a wise police department would inspect weapons taken into their custody, so as to prevent claims of abuse or maltreatment of the gun during its stay in the evidence locker. A slick prosecutor can also order the gun tested by LE for the specific purpose of unsafe modifications.

+1
The legal system has devolved into nothing more than a film festival where the audience, I mean jury, is left with deciding which film was more entertaining, I mean convincing. What would make a more interesting story than "murderer disables safety device on his gun to make it easier to kill the poor innocent rapist burglars who broke into his house simply to ask for directions." All you have to do is read the news and you'll find this to be the case. Slick lawyers can make evil but likeable criminals look like victims and have their case dismissed or can make innocent yet unpopular or unlikeable characters look like sick, twisted, sociopaths and have them put in jail for their whole lives.

Mr. Burns
09-06-2012, 7:17 PM
+1 for having done it myself. I just got the whole assembly from speed shooters specialties but as many others have said it would be just as easy to replace the spring or add a spacer.

I didn't think twice about putting it on my ccw either.