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View Full Version : 1911 intrigue...why?


Rorge Retson
09-02-2012, 7:19 PM
I was always completely baffled by the intrigue of the 1911. I carried an A1 while in the service, and while I shot it well, I never liked it. It felt like I was holding a pinewood derby car in my hand. "Honestly," I thought, "could there be a pistol any less ergonomic?"

However, after hanging around CG for a while and seeing all the 1911-love making the rounds, I figured that perhaps I had missed something somewhere along the way. So, I made a trip to a LGS known for their selection of 1911s, with the full intention of walking out of there at least liking them a little more than I used to, if not owning one.

So what happened? I am more clueless now than ever, as to what anyone sees in a square piece of metal that shoots seven rounds of ammo. I have a feeling that I could make something nicer with a piece of billet, a drill press, and a sander (it seems that most 1911 mfrs forget the sander part).

Am I the only one who feels this way?

Euphoria526
09-02-2012, 7:23 PM
No. Besides the historical appreciation I have for
The firearm, I'm not the biggest fan. I agree with most pros and cons about them. There fun but not for me.

Echidin
09-02-2012, 7:25 PM
Am I the only one who feels this way?

In short...yes, yes you are.

WWDHD?
09-02-2012, 7:31 PM
I just recently got into 1911's. I like that they are all metal. They are an interesting machines. I shoot well with them. That being said a 1911 would not be my first choice in a self defense situation but if thats all I had available It would do the job. I guess I just like tinkering with them and shooting them at the range. To each their own.

Horton Fenty
09-02-2012, 7:40 PM
Am I the only one who feels this way?

Yep.

The Virus
09-02-2012, 7:43 PM
to get better at reloads and clearing malfunctions and gun maintenance

phdo
09-02-2012, 7:47 PM
You have to really appreciate 1911s for their imperfections. Compared to modern handguns, they're quite lacking.

CalNRA
09-02-2012, 7:47 PM
Yep.

Yep^2

Old4eyes
09-02-2012, 7:48 PM
Of the few deficiencies of a 1911, ergonomics is not one them.

skosh69
09-02-2012, 7:51 PM
Yeah, 1911's really suck..that's why they've only been around for what...a hundred years???

Who needs 15 rds of 9mm when all you really need are 7-8 rds of .45???

No, not everone loves the 1911. Then again not everyone loves the Glock either. Wouldn't the world just suck if we all liked the same gun??? And God forbid it was a Glock...hahahah....Just kidding Glock men!

Find a pistol you like and buy.

Merc1138
09-02-2012, 7:52 PM
Why do some people like 5 or 6 shot single action revolvers? Why do some people like 1-4 shot small caliber derringer type pistols?

The gun has a lot of history, comes in models from $500 budget guns to $4,000+ show pieces. There's a lot of accessories, a lot of gunsmiths have experience working with them. It's not as if there aren't a multitude of reasons someone might like the thing.

Then there is a matter of practicality to consider. It's great that some modern guns have a 13+ round capacity but... most people in CA are stuck with 10 anyway so downsizing that to 8 rounds in a 1911 mag isn't as much of a trade-off since you'd only be getting 10 rounds out of a full size glock, xd, sig, cz, m&p, etc. anyway.

Other people like the ergonomics and that's entirely a matter of personal preference, but some companies have seen enough of a demand for a .45acp with a slimmer grip that they're also making guns(xds, g36, g30sf, come to mind) either because of the width alone, or they want something to carry.

Regardless, it's not like you have to buy one yourself just because they're popular.

Hell, if you think the demand for a 1911 is odd, I can't find a s&w 686 just to even look at in a shop(been pondering one out of curiosity, and unfortunately in the marketplace either no one ships or they include fleshlights in the ad... wtf) within a 20 mile radius(and anything on gallery of guns disappears within minutes).

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 7:58 PM
(been pondering one out of curiosity, and unfortunately in the marketplace either no one ships or they include fleshlights in the ad... wtf)

LOL. I saw that ad! Glad to know I wasn't the only one that noticed.

elSquid
09-02-2012, 8:04 PM
1911 intrigue...why?

The trigger.

-- Michael

Euphoria526
09-02-2012, 8:07 PM
The trigger.

-- Michael

Good answer.
What about answers from people who don't pray to the 1911 every night and day.

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 8:09 PM
Good answer.
What about answers from people who don't pray to the 1911 every night and day.

Yep, anyone who likes 1911's must be a part of a cult religion and totally devoid of logic and reason. :rolleyes:

acolytes
09-02-2012, 8:09 PM
I was in the same boat as you. Never had much interested in the 1911's. I owned Glocks, Xd's, etc.... After recently aquiring my first 1911 after 18 years of gun ownership, all my other hand guns have been neglected.

Euphoria526
09-02-2012, 8:11 PM
Yep, anyone who likes 1911's must be a part of a cult religion and totally devoid of logic and reason. :rolleyes:

I'm just asking for a non biased opinion. I already know where you stand. Hahahaha

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 8:13 PM
I'm just asking for a non biased opinion. I already know where you stand. Hahahaha

You know my personal opinions about ergonomics, triggers, weight, build material, ammo capacity, caliber and safeties already huh? Pretty impressive.

Asking for a non biased opinion on a personal preference doesn't quite work. Those who love them, you consider biased. Those who don't love them, you don't seem to have an issue with. Loaded question much?

Press Check
09-02-2012, 8:16 PM
I was always completely baffled by the intrigue of the 1911. I carried an A1 while in the service, and while I shot it well, I never liked it. It felt like I was holding a pinewood derby car in my hand. "Honestly," I thought, "could there be a pistol any less ergonomic?"

However, after hanging around CG for a while and seeing all the 1911-love making the rounds, I figured that perhaps I had missed something somewhere along the way. So, I made a trip to a LGS known for their selection of 1911s, with the full intention of walking out of there at least liking them a little more than I used to, if not owning one.

So what happened? I am more clueless now than ever, as to what anyone sees in a square piece of metal that shoots seven rounds of ammo. I have a feeling that I could make something nicer with a piece of billet, a drill press, and a sander (it seems that most 1911 mfrs forget the sander part).

Am I the only one who feels this way?


Blasphemy!

Seriously, I've never held a pistol that was more ergonomically sound than a 1911, and the two-stage trigger simply cannot be matched by any polymer pistol out there.

In a state restricting pistols to 10-round magazines, the magazine capacity is somewhat of a moot point.

No one has spewed more blasphemy about the 1911 than James Yeager, and he even admits that the 1911 is a "pretty gun."

Euphoria526
09-02-2012, 8:17 PM
Always a loaded question. Gotta
Keep people on their toes.
I dont care one way or the other. Its all personal preference. And I just meant I already knew you like 1911 by How you answered.
I just don't like bandwagons.

littlejake
09-02-2012, 8:18 PM
As a carry gun, I would not choose it. But, America's love of the 1911 has lasted a century. I recall in the 1960s when the old WWII crowd was at the local range with their tricked out 1911s -- they were like a cult. My first 1911 was a beat up Remington Rand that was so loose it rattled in battery. I couldn't hit the paper at 25 yards; but, I still enjoyed it.

Today, I have a SA that's been upgraded. Someday, I hope to own a WC or Baer.

As for carry, I think Glock has a big following for good reason. My personal preference is a Sig-Sauer P228 or P229.

(I don't carry in CA as I'm in one of those No Issue counties -- but do when OOS where I have permits.)

Press Check
09-02-2012, 8:19 PM
No one has spewed more blasphemy about the 1911 than James Yeager, and he even admits that the 1911 is a "pretty gun."

Correction, that's James "Run and Hide" Yeager.

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 8:22 PM
Always a loaded question. Gotta
Keep people on their toes.
I dont care one way or the other. Its all personal preference. And I just meant I already knew you like 1911 by How you answered.
I just don't like bandwagons.

Buying a firearm you enjoy, appeals to you aesthetically, and you shoot well isn't a bandwagon. It's called personal preference. ;)

I actually have a revolver, two polymer pistols, and one 1911. I enjoy them all, but there's an "x factor" about my 1911 that makes it my favorite of what I own. I guess if I were to quantify a quality I enjoy about it, it would be the trigger as well.

bombadillo
09-02-2012, 8:23 PM
Couple things;

First, the trigger is about the best in the business

The slide fit can be one of the best as well

There are multiple frames that can take up to 16 rounds in double stack form

Any standard 1911 can take a CMC 10 round Power Mag.


Anyway, they feel great in MY hand and would never look back to a Sig, HK, or otherwise after using a 1911.

elSquid
09-02-2012, 8:23 PM
Good answer.
What about answers from people who don't pray to the 1911 every night and day.

?

I primarily shoot 9mm polymer guns: mainly Glocks.

However, I can pick up a 45ACP 1911 and shoot it pretty accurately, quickly...and that's due to the trigger system. It makes it easy to shoot well.

How much trigger time do you have on 1911s?

-- Michael

JMP
09-02-2012, 8:26 PM
I am no 1911 fanboy, but I must admit that 1911s seem to be unparalleled in terms of accuracy. For practical purposes, I'd reach for an HK, Sig, or Glock which seem to be more reliable.

whipkiller
09-02-2012, 8:30 PM
Am I the only one who feels this way?

No, actually there's three of you... You should start a club.:rolleyes:

sjm9877
09-02-2012, 8:33 PM
A good 1911 trigger is a great thing, however I shoot just as well with my Sig or my Berretta or my Glock. I can't get over the grip sfety on a 1911 worst feeling in my hand ever.

J-cat
09-02-2012, 8:51 PM
So what happened? I am more clueless now than ever, as to what anyone sees in a square piece of metal that shoots seven rounds of ammo. I have a feeling that I could make something nicer with a piece of billet, a drill press, and a sander (it seems that most 1911 mfrs forget the sander part).

Am I the only one who feels this way?

You prolly like guns like these:

http://paladinarmory.com/Photos%20for%20PA%20website/Astra_400.jpg

Horton Fenty
09-02-2012, 8:54 PM
I'm just asking for a non biased opinion.

I messed around with Glock's, Kahr's, various revolvers and other semi-auto's long before I bough a 1911. I like 1911's because they combine a few things I found I liked from the other stuff I've owned or shot. I like all steel, thin, single action, external hammer guns. That pretty much describes my two favorite guns. A Colt Combat Commander and a Ruger Flattop Blackhawk. I'd probably like a Sig P238 a lot too.

bsim
09-02-2012, 9:03 PM
So I was looking at this 1967 Chevelle SS, and that POS doesn't even have cup holders or a GPS, am I the only one that doesn't get it?"

You either get it or you don't, no amount of internet searching will change your mind.

Rorge Retson
09-02-2012, 9:06 PM
[i]You either get it or you don't, no amount of internet searching will change your mind.

If you actually read my original post, I already said I didn't get it. I was just wondering if someone else didn't get it as well. There seems to be so much 1911 love here that I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one.

daking
09-02-2012, 9:10 PM
Good answer.
What about answers from people who don't pray to the 1911 every night and day.

We don't pray to the 1911. We pray to John Moses Browning. The 1911 is at his right side.:D

Drok512
09-02-2012, 9:13 PM
1911s are damn sexy and fit my big *** hand quite well.... there are many reasons..

L84CABO
09-02-2012, 9:21 PM
I was always completely baffled by the intrigue of the 1911. I carried an A1 while in the service, and while I shot it well, I never liked it. It felt like I was holding a pinewood derby car in my hand. "Honestly," I thought, "could there be a pistol any less ergonomic?"

However, after hanging around CG for a while and seeing all the 1911-love making the rounds, I figured that perhaps I had missed something somewhere along the way. So, I made a trip to a LGS known for their selection of 1911s, with the full intention of walking out of there at least liking them a little more than I used to, if not owning one.

So what happened? I am more clueless now than ever, as to what anyone sees in a square piece of metal that shoots seven rounds of ammo. I have a feeling that I could make something nicer with a piece of billet, a drill press, and a sander (it seems that most 1911 mfrs forget the sander part).

Am I the only one who feels this way?

Who cares!? You don't have to like them. It's ok. Go buy a Glock.

It's a 1911 thing. You wouldn't understand.

t0kie
09-02-2012, 9:23 PM
The trigger.

-- Michael

This^^^, also the sexy look...what not to love? :)

Bongos
09-02-2012, 9:25 PM
1911 why Loved

Reason 1: Best single acton trigger (Series 70)
Reason 2: Defense round...45ACP can stop a guy dead in his tracks if hit anywhere on the body
Reason 3: Yes, limited to 7-8 rds (though you can find extended 10rounder) but one 45ACP (230grn) equals two 9mm (115gr).. so there
Reason 4: Just Plain Sexxxy!!!

Rorge Retson
09-02-2012, 9:26 PM
Who cares!? You don't have to like them. It's ok. Go buy a Glock.

Don't care for Glocks either.

CWUSCG
09-02-2012, 9:27 PM
Shhh....Did you hear that? ...That was John Moses Browning rolling over in his grave. :oji: There hasn't been a significant change(from what I know of) in the original design since it was introduced over 100 years ago! That alone is a testimony that the 1911 will stand the test of time.

Just my 2 cents. Carry on. :thumbsup:

GM4spd
09-02-2012, 9:30 PM
This one is only 71 years old born April 30,1941---still reliable,feels good,
and looks good,actually has a clean,crisp,4lb trigger pull. Check and see
what your Glock or other favorite is WORTH in 70 years(if it lasts that long) compared to this
Colt. Pete

http://fototime.com/D35E8D61B08AAF0/xlarge.jpg

JackRydden224
09-02-2012, 9:34 PM
I'm just asking for a non biased opinion. I already know where you stand. Hahahaha

Errr there is no such thing as an unbiased opinion lol. But I'm sure you know that already. Firearm preference is another thing that's very subjective. The best gun by data isn't necessarily the best gun for everybody.

I tried various models of Glock but I dislike them all. Their ergonomics feel weird and the trigger is mushy. I have not shot a 1911 that I did not like.

Rorge Retson
09-02-2012, 9:36 PM
This one is only 71 years old born April 30,1941---still reliable,feels good,
and looks good,actually has a clean,crisp,4lb trigger pull. Check and see
what your Glock or other favorite is WORTH in 70 years(if it lasts that long) compared to this
Colt. Pete

http://fototime.com/D35E8D61B08AAF0/xlarge.jpg

Now that is pretty damn awesome, I must admit. A bit of history - well worn, looks very cool, and still works. Kinda like a 1941 quarter - except a lot better!!

Josh Smith
09-02-2012, 9:42 PM
I carried a Taurus pre-decock PT92 for the longest time, 10+ years.

I picked up a 1911 and sold the PT92 without a second thought. The 1911 is still with me, and it's even better than it was. I've molded the metal to fit my hand perfectly.

Remember, the 1911a1 models were made in response to suggestions in WWI:

Arched MS housing: This was introduced because in WWI folks had been used to the grip angle of revolvers. The flat MSH as originally produced made those men shoot low. It's now been reintroduced as it really is more ergonomic.

Trigger: The short trigger was much more like the Colt 1873's trigger in feel. Combined with the arched MSH, it gave mounted soldiers what they were used to.

Sights: I like the a1 sights. The originals really were vestigial. I point shoot, but I know from experience that if I need a sight picture in a crisis, I can draw one with fine sights. For me, fine sights equal fine shooting, and if I need the sights, then I need to do fine shooting.

Hammer: The original 1911 was designed to be carried by cavalry, chambered, hammer down. The massive spur was to aid in cocking by snagging it against the operator's pants. The other hand was needed to control the horse.

Safety: The thumb safety was there solely to provide an element of safety after a battle while the cavalry man was getting his horse under control after a battle. As horses faded, the role of the thumb safety became more important, to include cocked'n'locked in a few instances, yes, even in the military. Thus it was improved.

Firing pin retainer: Since Condition 3 (empty chamber, hammer down) became the norm, the slide had to be operated manually to ready the weapon. The original design had a squared bottom that helped retard the action; the a1 model was rounded so that it was easier to operate the weapon's slide manually for Condition 3 carry.

The rest of the changes were for better handling and ergonomics. The 1911 really introduced the modern concept of a fighting pistol in the changeover from the 1911 to the 1911a1: Easy-to-operate controls, larger sights (for the time, anyway), ergonomics, safe chambered carry. Prior to this, these features belonged almost exclusively to the revolver.

Josh

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 9:47 PM
This one is only 71 years old born April 30,1941---still reliable,feels good,
and looks good,actually has a clean,crisp,4lb trigger pull. Check and see
what your Glock or other favorite is WORTH in 70 years(if it lasts that long) compared to this
Colt. Pete

http://fototime.com/D35E8D61B08AAF0/xlarge.jpg

Now that is a beautiful pistol.

L84CABO
09-02-2012, 11:32 PM
Don't care for Glocks either.

:facepalm:

InGrAM
09-02-2012, 11:46 PM
If you don't like 1911's that is fine. But why are you questioning others taste in firearms?

Why don't you start a meaningless thread about how someone could like a glock?

freonr22
09-02-2012, 11:59 PM
1911 series 70, amt hardballer longlslide, sig p220st .. its just an evolution. but the 1911 will always have the place in my heart

bloodhawke83
09-03-2012, 12:01 AM
I like my 1911a1 government :D can't gi wrong with a classic.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

JackRydden224
09-03-2012, 12:04 AM
I like my 1911a1 government :D can't gi wrong with a classic.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Can't go wrong or can't GI wrong?

Either way it works :D

anymoose
09-03-2012, 12:13 AM
awesome ergos, slim profile, best trigger, great round, well balanced, used and trusted by socom and competitive shooters, accurate, simple to maintain...

i cant think of a pistol that ive shot that i like better
cant stand the triggers on sigs
not a fan of glock in general or other poly guns, i cant get good control with them
im starting to like beretta, but the trigger is still better on the 1911 and i dont like the DA/SA
.22 target pistols are fun, but not comparable
the high power is sweet, but still lacks compare to a good 1911
...


different people like different things.

take glock for example; i havent met anyone that has an accurate NPOA with a glock, the gun costs $100 to make and is sold for $550, the trigger is pretty crappy feeling, and ive had just as many failures with my glock as ive had with my 1911, so no benefit in reliability. yet there are tons of glock fans out there that swear by them and dont mind paying the 500% mark up to own one. i dont understand it, but if people like them then w/e, at least people are owning guns.

Bruce
09-03-2012, 12:13 AM
I was always completely baffled by the intrigue of the 1911. I carried an A1 while in the service, and while I shot it well, I never liked it. It felt like I was holding a pinewood derby car in my hand. "Honestly," I thought, "could there be a pistol any less ergonomic?"
However, after hanging around CG for a while and seeing all the 1911-love making the rounds, I figured that perhaps I had missed something somewhere along the way. So, I made a trip to a LGS known for their selection of 1911s, with the full intention of walking out of there at least liking them a little more than I used to, if not owning one.

So what happened? I am more clueless now than ever, as to what anyone sees in a square piece of metal that shoots seven rounds of ammo. I have a feeling that I could make something nicer with a piece of billet, a drill press, and a sander (it seems that most 1911 mfrs forget the sander part).

Am I the only one who feels this way?

You've pretty much described how I feel about Glocks and Beretta 92's.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m130/Drago_07/1911tupperware.jpg

Pretty much sums it up.

bloodhawke83
09-03-2012, 12:15 AM
You've pretty much described how I feel about Glocks and Beretta 92's.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m130/Drago_07/1911tupperware.jpg

Pretty much sums it up.

Just replace the grips?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

FLAWLS1
09-03-2012, 1:56 AM
No, actually there's three of you... You should start a club.:rolleyes:

:laugh:

The fact that the OP doesn't even own one, yet still feels a need to spend time and energy creating an entire thread on the subject, tells me that there is more to the story than we are hearing.;)

You own a CZ so your opinion on the 1911 doesn't count. EVERYONE knows a 1911 looks better than a CZ. :D

SilverTauron
09-03-2012, 6:41 AM
I was always completely baffled by the intrigue of the 1911. I carried an A1 while in the service, and while I shot it well, I never liked it. It felt like I was holding a pinewood derby car in my hand. "Honestly," I thought, "could there be a pistol any less ergonomic?"

However, after hanging around CG for a while and seeing all the 1911-love making the rounds, I figured that perhaps I had missed something somewhere along the way. So, I made a trip to a LGS known for their selection of 1911s, with the full intention of walking out of there at least liking them a little more than I used to, if not owning one.

So what happened? I am more clueless now than ever, as to what anyone sees in a square piece of metal that shoots seven rounds of ammo. I have a feeling that I could make something nicer with a piece of billet, a drill press, and a sander (it seems that most 1911 mfrs forget the sander part).

Am I the only one who feels this way?

I used to be the guy with a collection of DA/SA 9mms and shot patterns like this:

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMG_20120608_113714.jpg


Then I got a 1911 and shot a group like this:

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMG_20120824_133812.jpg

Standing at a distance from that green box to the target:

http://i454.photobucket.com/albums/qq266/Silversmok3/IMG_20120824_133747.jpg

Do not be deceived. That picture top of my DA/SA S&W was after shooting 250 round boxes every other week this summer, in an effort to improve my DA shooting.

Notice the top target is an 8" shoot n c which covers the entire target board. The 1911's target is a much smaller VisiColor that's about 5" x 4" on the same board.

I cannot speak to anyone else's needs, but as far as I'm concerned my defensive pistol needs are met and then some with the 1911. BTW, I don't live in a mag limited state so I could strap on a Glock 17 with a 33 round mag if I so choose to, so IMO the politics of magazine caps doesn't come into it.

opie4386
09-03-2012, 6:51 AM
I wa at the range last thursday trying out my new sig for the first time. Got 10in groupins at 20 feet. ( never shot a polymer gun )

Then shot my 1911, 3in groups at 50 feet. That is why i love my 1911 its a gun i am good with even when i first shot it.

Arkangel
09-03-2012, 8:23 AM
We are all different, its just rare to hear that someone doesn't like either the 1911 or Glocks.

I will bring my 1911 to the range on Thursday, you are welcome to shoot it.

davester00
09-03-2012, 8:33 AM
The 1911 is the only pistol ever made that can properly embody the fighting spirit of the AMERICAN warrior.

kurac
09-03-2012, 9:00 AM
I got one because its American and designed by the greatest firearms inventor of all time. Some people are famous for one or two firearms but John Moses Browning is famous for dozens. Some of my favorites

M2
1919
BAR
A5
1911
The Winchester lever actions

owning a 1911 is owning a piece of American history.

daybreak
09-03-2012, 9:30 AM
It's the trigger. And I don't even own one anymore.

gorenut
09-03-2012, 10:23 AM
It can be tailored to be a workhorse or a finely-tuned American hot rod.

POINTMANDDT
09-03-2012, 6:40 PM
Yeah, 1911's really suck..that's why they've only been around for what...a hundred years???

Who needs 15 rds of 9mm when all you really need are 7-8 rds of .45???

No, not everone loves the 1911. Then again not everyone loves the Glock either. Wouldn't the world just suck if we all liked the same gun??? And God forbid it was a Glock...hahahah....Just kidding Glock men!

Find a pistol you like and buy.

We really need to go shooting soon. I'm going to convert you to the dark side:devil2:

willerfortheworld
09-03-2012, 7:59 PM
I'm not the biggest fan of the 1911, but I think any major handgun collector should have at least three of them;)

One classy old school 1911, one modern hi-cap w/ rails and one compact for ccw

And what's more American then a 1911..? Its like apple pie, baseball, and freedom!

stormvet
09-03-2012, 8:06 PM
I own several Glocks, a couple CZ's, M&P, SIG, HI POWER,FNP, XDm, Beretta and more that I am forgetting and they all bow and submitt to the awsomniss of my 1911s.

skosh69
09-03-2012, 8:36 PM
We really need to go shooting soon. I'm going to convert you to the dark side:devil2:

Bring it on brother...does buying a Shield 9mm count as stepping towards the dark side??? hehehe

Bug Splat
09-03-2012, 8:51 PM
I love 1911's for its American history and its beauty...... but I'd never carry one to war myself. The design is too complicated, low round capacity, parts do not last as long and are hard to fit and to be honest I've never seen a 1911 that was 100% beyond 5,000 rounds without parts needing to be replaced. I'm sure they exist and people will flame me for that statement but if you put a 1911, glock 17, Sig 226, M&P 40, XD9 and CZ75b on a table and asked me which would die first in a torture test my money would be on the 1911. I own a 1911 and its a fun gun to shoot but its a high maintenance pistol that does not like to be dirty and needs a box of replacement parts if you plan on shooting it a lot.

IPSICK
09-03-2012, 9:09 PM
I love 1911's for its American history and its beauty...... but I'd never carry one to war myself. The design is too complicated, low round capacity, parts do not last as long and are hard to fit and to be honest I've never seen a 1911 that was 100% beyond 5,000 rounds without parts needing to be replaced. I'm sure they exist and people will flame me for that statement but if you put a 1911, glock 17, Sig 226, M&P 40, XD9 and CZ75b on a table and asked me which would die first in a torture test my money would be on the 1911. I own a 1911 and its a fun gun to shoot but its a high maintenance pistol that does not like to be dirty and needs a box of replacement parts if you plan on shooting it a lot.

That's funny, I've shot thousands of rounds through my 1911 without cleaning and no hiccups. I've shot out the recoil spring in my Glock after around 5000 rounds and needed to replace it because it began to malfunction. I still feel both are reliable as long as I test them at the range for function every once in a while. All guns will need some type of maintenance after some time from use. Only safe queens are flawless and maintenance free forever.

Btw, I have met plenty of people who don't like Glocks or 1911s. No big problem. People should be able to like and use what they want.

Omil
09-03-2012, 9:18 PM
1911's = USA !!:)

AAShooter
09-03-2012, 9:21 PM
The trigger.

-- Michael

^^^^^^ This.

whipkiller
09-03-2012, 9:24 PM
:laugh:

The fact that the OP doesn't even own one, yet still feels a need to spend time and energy creating an entire thread on the subject, tells me that there is more to the story than we are hearing.;)

You own a CZ so your opinion on the 1911 doesn't count. EVERYONE knows a 1911 looks better than a CZ. :D

:D Well played sir, well played. I was kinda' hoping you'd see that.:rolleyes:

Snoopy47
09-03-2012, 9:35 PM
Make no mistake.
This
http://fototime.com/D35E8D61B08AAF0/xlarge.jpg
Is NOT thisÖÖÖÖ

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll259/jonathandgustafson/20111222_083859.jpg

My first 1911 was a Model 70 Colt, and much in the spirit of the GI layout 1911. I didnít get it either. I only got other ones because I liked the look and feel. Then I got a TRP, and realized I had something there. Then I got a Les Baer and realized I had something even more.
Yes, a GI type Rock Island, or Springfield GI/Mil Spec holds no torch to a polymer gun.

When you get a 1911 with the modern upgrades itís an entirely different game. Then of course they become un-comparable price wise.
Thatís why one auto dealer sells Station Wagons, and the one across the street sells Mustangs.

1forall
09-03-2012, 10:05 PM
In short...yes, yes you are.

Lol...:D:D:D:D

Stockton
09-03-2012, 10:08 PM
My Pros:
History
Ergonomics good
Looks good
Upgrades plenty
Accessories plenty
Fun to shoot
45 ballistics for humans good
I can afford it

My Cons:
Too heavy for conceal carry
May need work for some upgrades
May need work out of the box
I want more than I can afford

POINTMANDDT
09-04-2012, 5:55 AM
Bring it on brother...does buying a Shield 9mm count as stepping towards the dark side??? hehehe

Not until it rhymes with CLOCK lol

Striker
09-04-2012, 8:23 AM
I was always completely baffled by the intrigue of the 1911. I carried an A1 while in the service, and while I shot it well, I never liked it. It felt like I was holding a pinewood derby car in my hand. "Honestly," I thought, "could there be a pistol any less ergonomic?"

However, after hanging around CG for a while and seeing all the 1911-love making the rounds, I figured that perhaps I had missed something somewhere along the way. So, I made a trip to a LGS known for their selection of 1911s, with the full intention of walking out of there at least liking them a little more than I used to, if not owning one.

So what happened? I am more clueless now than ever, as to what anyone sees in a square piece of metal that shoots seven rounds of ammo. I have a feeling that I could make something nicer with a piece of billet, a drill press, and a sander (it seems that most 1911 mfrs forget the sander part).

Am I the only one who feels this way?

No, there are plenty of people that don't like the 1911. If you don't, I'm not sure why you would go to a your LGS and try to like them. I don't much have a use for SA revolvers, so I never look at them. Others love them.

What you're missing, at least from my point of view, is a gun that if set up and maintained correctly, can yield 2" groups at 25 yards, be just as reliable as any other pistol, and more so than most have been lately, and has the best handgun trigger compared to any other service pistol. However it doesn't seem to be the gun that you're comfortable with, so it's not.

1911 why Loved

Reason 1: Best single acton trigger (Series 70)
Reason 2: Defense round...45ACP can stop a guy dead in his tracks if hit anywhere on the body
Reason 3: Yes, limited to 7-8 rds (though you can find extended 10rounder) but one 45ACP (230grn) equals two 9mm (115gr).. so there
Reason 4: Just Plain Sexxxy!!!

LOL.

Cessnapilot89
09-04-2012, 8:35 AM
Absolutely love my Colt 1911. It is an oldie at being made in 1912, Stamped US Army on the side, Finish is well worn but the pistol is still tight and shoots like no other. It is the only pistol that I have that has never given me any issues when firing. I do love my Luger and FN Browning High Power, but they just don't compare to that ancient 1911.

Rorge Retson
09-04-2012, 8:38 AM
No, there are plenty of people that don't like the 1911. If you don't, I'm not sure why you would go to a your LGS and try to like them.
Like I said, I thought that maybe I had dismissed them too early, and needed to give them another chance - hold them a little longer in my hand, try a number of different versions, etc.
What you're missing, at least from my point of view, is a gun that if set up and maintained correctly, can yield 2" groups at 25 yards, be just as reliable as any other pistol, and more so than most have been lately, and has the best handgun trigger compared to any other service pistol. However it doesn't seem to be the gun that you're comfortable with, so it's not.
Ideally, that type of trigger behavior could be replicated in a different firearm. It looks like what I'll be doing is trying trigger kits in my CZ and XDs.

IPSICK
09-04-2012, 10:14 AM
...Ideally, that type of trigger behavior could be replicated in a different firearm. It looks like what I'll be doing is trying trigger kits in my CZ and XDs.

"Ideally" but not always realistically. Many single action only semi's are still unable to replicate the 1911's awesome trigger. Good luck getting an XD to be as good as a 1911 trigger. It is almost impossible to do in a polymer framed gun. You might have a chance in a SAO CZ. But if you prefer a DA/SA, a customized CZ is among one of the best. Still not as good for most people as a 1911 trigger.

Lead Waster
09-04-2012, 10:34 AM
Good answer.
What about answers from people who don't pray to the 1911 every night and day.

I would also say trigger. I have the RIA Tactical and even as a "low end" 1911, I like the trigger. I think ergos are good, but I use the rubber Hogue grips so it's comfy. I don't shoot it very well though.

I bought it because I wanted a 1911, but I didn't want a shiny show piece that would cost 4 Glocks.

I also have Glocks and CZs and a Ruger 22/45. My favorite is the CZ-75 SA. With comfy Hogue rubber grips on it it feels like part of my hand and shoots really well. So I'm NOT a 1911 "fanboi" but I really appreciate the trigger on the RIA. I imagine that those shiny 1911s must have even nicer triggers.

Also, a 10 round Chip McCormick PowerMag+ fixes the "only 7 rounds" issue with 1911s ... IF it works with your 1911, which they all don't.

It's a good gun. "Being around for 100 years" means nothing to me.

SilverTauron
09-04-2012, 11:11 AM
Like I said, I thought that maybe I had dismissed them too early, and needed to give them another chance - hold them a little longer in my hand, try a number of different versions, etc.

Ideally, that type of trigger behavior could be replicated in a different firearm. It looks like what I'll be doing is trying trigger kits in my CZ and XDs.

Entire companies are built around products sold to make other guns do what every properly built 1911 can do out of the box. Spending $650 on an XDm to buy another $50 of parts to make it shoot 7/10ths as good as a $700 Springfield 1911 makes little fiscal sense.

Ive tried trigger kits in other guns before, and it is akin to putting a turbocharger on a Ford F150 to make it pace a Ford Mustang Cobra. You can physically do it, but the Cobra's going to be a better car for having been built to go fast from day 1.

The way I see things, you cannot judge any firearm until you've shot it. Even people who dislike the 1911 for other platforms can't help but enjoy shooting them. You should hit a range and see why before offering any more criticism.

;)

Jack L
09-04-2012, 12:22 PM
Why do some people like 5 or 6 shot single action revolvers? Why do some people like 1-4 shot small caliber derringer type pistols?

The gun has a lot of history, comes in models from $500 budget guns to $4,000+ show pieces. There's a lot of accessories, a lot of gunsmiths have experience working with them. It's not as if there aren't a multitude of reasons someone might like the thing.

Then there is a matter of practicality to consider. It's great that some modern guns have a 13+ round capacity but... most people in CA are stuck with 10 anyway so downsizing that to 8 rounds in a 1911 mag isn't as much of a trade-off since you'd only be getting 10 rounds out of a full size glock, xd, sig, cz, m&p, etc. anyway.

Other people like the ergonomics and that's entirely a matter of personal preference, but some companies have seen enough of a demand for a .45acp with a slimmer grip that they're also making guns(xds, g36, g30sf, come to mind) either because of the width alone, or they want something to carry.

Regardless, it's not like you have to buy one yourself just because they're popular.

Hell, if you think the demand for a 1911 is odd, I can't find a s&w 686 just to even look at in a shop(been pondering one out of curiosity, and unfortunately in the marketplace either no one ships or they include fleshlights in the ad... wtf) within a 20 mile radius(and anything on gallery of guns disappears within minutes).

Own both. 1911 because I grew up with them as my old man was military police. S&W 686 because it's a workhorse and can walk the walk, a timeless piece that the ages do not render obsolete.

AAShooter
09-04-2012, 1:00 PM
The same principle applies but it is like this.

Do you want to drive this:

http://www.sport-cars.org/site_img/large/ferrari-enzo-1.jpg

Or, drive this:

http://www.newfuturecars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/2011-Toyota-Camry.jpg

bombadillo
09-04-2012, 3:09 PM
I'll take either if given to me! :D

Lead Waster
09-04-2012, 5:09 PM
^^ I would LOVE to drive the Ferrari, I'm sure it drives circles around the Prius. However, if I'm driving to work and back and dropping off the kids at school, I want the Prius. The Ferrarri would stay in the garage/safe. I wouldn't want to pay for gas and maintenance on the ferrari either!

So yeah, one is a better ride but one makes more sense from a "I'm not the top 1%" point of view! :p

bombadillo
09-04-2012, 5:13 PM
Its a camry, not a prius.


How could you mistake that for a driving suppository...

POINTMANDDT
09-04-2012, 5:23 PM
Its a camry, not a prius.


How could you mistake that for a driving suppository...

Should be a tank lol

willerfortheworld
09-04-2012, 5:38 PM
They can be reliable like a Toyota after you know your 1911. I here a lot of people say you need to break them in before they become something to bet your life on. I here you may experience ftf or fte for the first few hundred rounds or so, but when broken in they become flawless tack drivers.

I don't own one but I'm sure there are a few companies that make them reliable as any out of the box..?

socal-shooter
09-04-2012, 6:02 PM
1911= archaic and overly complicated by today's modern standards

Yup I said it :)

AAShooter
09-04-2012, 6:08 PM
1911= archaic and overly complicated by today's modern standards

Yup I said it :)

Yes, many get confused over machines that are combat proven and time tested. It is good that more modern simpler products are available for you. :D

POINTMANDDT
09-04-2012, 6:08 PM
1911= archaic and overly complicated by today's modern standards

Yup I said it :)

:ban: for telling it like it is...:oji:

joe321
09-04-2012, 7:36 PM
Revolvers are like those old classic pick up trucks. Glocks are like Toyotas. Sigs are like Porsches. 1911's are like Rolls Royces.

Knomad
09-04-2012, 8:01 PM
My first handgun was a 1911, a Colt Series 70 purchased new in 1976. It has a custom trigger and aftermarket grips. I still have it.

I use other, more modern guns for everyday carry. The 1911 is mostly a safe queen these days. But I can still shoot tighter groups with it, especially at 15 to 25 yards, than any other gun I own. In fact at my CCW class I brought it as an afterthought and outshot everyone else in the class, except for one other guy who also had a 1911.

So for me it depends on the intended use. For target shooting at the range, the 1911 is my first choice. For a carry or fighting gun, there are newer choices that weigh barely over half as much, are reliable, cost less, are less corrosion prone in the damp north coast woods, and are combat-level accurate enough for the intended purpose. YMMV.

Striker
09-04-2012, 8:09 PM
Like I said, I thought that maybe I had dismissed them too early, and needed to give them another chance - hold them a little longer in my hand, try a number of different versions, etc.

Ideally, that type of trigger behavior could be replicated in a different firearm. It looks like what I'll be doing is trying trigger kits in my CZ and XDs.

Good luck. Everyone tries to replicate the 1911 trigger, but no one ever seems to quite get it. You would think in all this time, someone would get it right, but apparently not. I've heard that the Apex FSS for the S&W M&P comes pretty close, but I've never used that trigger, so I don't know.

SilverTauron
09-04-2012, 8:20 PM
1911= archaic and overly complicated by today's modern standards

Yup I said it :)


So are the Great Pyramids compared to your house. Guess which one's still gonna be standing in 1,000 years?;)

.45heat
09-04-2012, 8:43 PM
This is what I think about the 1911, but Robert Campbell will help me but my thoughts into words.
"The 1911 features an ideal blend of weight and balance. The cartridge is the most powerful we are likely to be able to control well in a 40-ounce handgun. The bore axis or the height of the middle of the bore above the hand is low enough that muzzle flip is limited. The trigger press is straight to the rear. The SA trigger is among the great advantages of the 1911. Durability of the 1911 is unquestioned."

"When you are under the terrifying oppression of fear, a 1911 is a great equalizer"
Robert K. Campbell

InGrAM
09-04-2012, 9:13 PM
So are the Great Pyramids compared to your house. Guess which one's still gonna be standing in 1,000 years?;)

Well said, well said.

As long as muslims don't destroy them.....

hkdad
09-04-2012, 9:26 PM
^^ I would LOVE to drive the Ferrari, I'm sure it drives circles around the Prius. However, if I'm driving to work and back and dropping off the kids at school, I want the Prius. The Ferrarri would stay in the garage/safe. I wouldn't want to pay for gas and maintenance on the ferrari either!

So yeah, one is a better ride but one makes more sense from a "I'm not the top 1%" point of view! :p


If you can afford to drive an Enzo Ferrari... I think you can afford to buy gas. ;)

Snoopy47
09-04-2012, 9:36 PM
The best gun is the gun you like shooting, and become proficient with.
I compete with mine. Iíve dialed them in terms of ammo recipe, recoil spring combination, and magazine selection. They donít fail because I keep them clean, maintained, and reload consistent ammo.

It really doesnít matter what gun you use. When youíre shooting 1,000 rounds a month your gun will show its true colors. When youíre shooting 1,000 rounds a month the cost of the gun becomes secondary.

If I stopped and moved to my XD and put the same amount of rounds through it I would eventually become just as proficient with it, and the reliability would be the same.

A quality 1911 is an elitist gun. Many forget it's 1,000 rounds a month that makes them good shoots, not a $1000 gun.

Rorge Retson
09-04-2012, 9:40 PM
Well, one thing this thread did was convince me that I need to shoot a 1911 again before I put the final nail in its coffin.

Thanks guys.

AAShooter
09-04-2012, 10:00 PM
Well, one thing this thread did was convince me that I need to shoot a 1911 again before I put the final nail in its coffin.

Thanks guys.

You need to shoot a quality 1911 before . . .

BradleyAbrams
09-04-2012, 10:58 PM
Revolvers are like those old classic pick up trucks. Glocks are like Toyotas. Sigs are like Porsches. 1911's are like 1970 HEMI 'CUDAS.

There.

Fixed it for ya...


-

supermanuf
09-04-2012, 11:18 PM
The right 1911, with its slim profile and perfect balance, should feel like it's welded to your hand... a natural extension of your arm. I've fired lots of different handguns, and never really had that same kind of experience with another gun. The XDm .45 is close, but its big square slide and slightly wider grip still gives it that "brick" factor, while the 1911 feels a bit more organic. Plus, that slimness makes even a 5" 1911 a comfortable carry pistol as opposed to a 5" polymer double stack.

locosway
09-05-2012, 6:22 AM
Some of us have a good reason for owning 1911's.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s720x720/402940_2429513304748_1553969988_n.jpg

t0kie
09-05-2012, 6:57 AM
If you can afford to drive an Enzo Ferrari... I think you can afford to buy gas. ;)

This^^^, "gotta pay to play" :)

To me, I love 1911 because the slim grip, the trigger, the look & the history behind it, period!

POINTMANDDT
09-05-2012, 6:57 AM
You need to shoot a quality 1911 before . . .

What brand do you consider to be a quality 1911?And are there any 1911's that you consider as reliable as a Glock that are in the same price range?

From what I understand and correct me if I'm mis-informed, but the tighter the 1911 the more problems you have, but the tighter the groups.

Again, the only pistols I have ever seen malfunction at matches were the high end 1911's. Now, I'm sure there is someone that will say the opposite, that they have only seen glocks malfunction. I just have never seen that before. My 1911 is my shooter and I love it. My glock 17 is my SHTF pistol without question....and I love it!

AAShooter
09-05-2012, 7:11 AM
What brand do you consider to be a quality 1911?And are there any 1911's that you consider as reliable as a Glock that are in the same price range?

From what I understand and correct me if I'm mis-informed, but the tighter the 1911 the more problems you have, but the tighter the groups.

Again, the only pistols I have ever seen malfunction at matches were the high end 1911's. Now, I'm sure there is someone that will say the opposite, that they have only seen glocks malfunction. I just have never seen that before. My 1911 is my shooter and I love it. My glock 17 is my SHTF pistol without question....and I love it!

Not sure where to go with this so I will make some general comments. There are many quality 1911s out there--many are not determined by the manufacturer and model number. Especially for less expensive 1911's, they will require additional work to get them "tuned" in.

As far a Glocks, they are relatively inexpensive guns that tend to run out of the box, are easy to maintain (no fitted parts), and easy to clean. It is hard to beat their reliability but they are not as precise as a 1911 design due to the differences in the way they lock up. This is often not an issue for defensive applications.

For the price of a Glock, it is difficult to get a 1911 that runs well and is reliable without a bunch of custom work.

I am a pretty big 1911 fan but have come to appreciate the simplicity/reliability of a Glock. I always say "Give me a Glock with a 1911 trigger and I am all over that." Glock triggers suck.

45acpfan
09-05-2012, 7:28 AM
Good quality 1911 will outshot a Glock anytime anyday. Here's why: the trigger pull of a smooth single action is far superior than a striker pistol.
Now, to say problems with high ends 1911 is totally bogus & not true.
You need to buy one & experience it by yourself, not just seeing or hearing things & start talking that Glock is 100% but not 1911. Every guns as many others have said there are the bad ones, either 1911, Sig, Glock, etc, but to say that Glock is better, hmmm....

For te record: Yes, I own both & both are great guns.

AAShooter
09-05-2012, 7:33 AM
I'll pass along a funny story. I took a four-day handgun class and a guy came with a pimped out Glock. He spent a pile of money on modifications and was glad to tell you about them. He would go to the line with a can of spray lubrication. After every few shots he would spray the gun with the lubricant to keep it from malfunctioning. Even with that, the gun would often malfunction. Despite his claim that it would be extremely reliable once it was broken in, you could not have given me that gun. I am glad he was happy with his gun but I would not own it.

t0kie
09-05-2012, 7:37 AM
So, apparently there's a Glock with a problem too, huh? ^^^ :D

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 7:38 AM
I love the "been around for a hundred years" quips. Being old doesn't make it good, it makes it ... OLD.

Classic cars are cool and fun to drive on occasion. But I wouldn't want one for a daily driver.

AAShooter
09-05-2012, 7:41 AM
I love the "been around for a hundred years" quips. Being old doesn't make it good, it makes it ... OLD.

Classic cars are cool and fun to drive on occasion. But I wouldn't want one for a daily driver.

The design has been around for years. I don't think most are suggesting going and buying a 80 year of gun. If the design provided no value, manufacturers would have abandoned the design long ago.

Bhobbs
09-05-2012, 7:46 AM
There.

Fixed it for ya...


-

I'd say more like classic American muscle. The way they look, sound and smell is like no other. Sure they are outdated by modern standards but they are just solid cars that still run long after they should have died out.

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 7:47 AM
If the design provided no value, manufacturers would have abandoned the design long ago.

Or it's seeing it's own version of a renaissance. Sooner or later, people will quit making excuses like: "It just needs to break in" or "bad magazine spring" or "It really doesn't like [brand x] ammo" and realize the 1911 is past it's sell-by date.

-A 1911 owner who finally saw the light

Horton Fenty
09-05-2012, 7:51 AM
I love the "been around for a hundred years" quips. Being old doesn't make it good, it makes it ... OLD.

Classic cars are cool and fun to drive on occasion. But I wouldn't want one for a daily driver.

Totally unfair comparison. If a 1911 is like a classic car, than a new car would be like a ray gun.

AAShooter
09-05-2012, 7:52 AM
As they say, buy a 1911 . . . marry a gunsmith. lol

AAShooter
09-05-2012, 7:54 AM
I love the "been around for a hundred years" quips. Being old doesn't make it good, it makes it ... OLD.

Classic cars are cool and fun to drive on occasion. But I wouldn't want one for a daily driver.

More like the internal combustion engine. Been used for years . . . still a solid choice for transportation.

IPSICK
09-05-2012, 7:56 AM
Well, one thing this thread did was convince me that I need to shoot a 1911 again before I put the final nail in its coffin.

Thanks guys.

I'm glad you're keeping an open mind but don't feel bad if you are not a 1911 guy. There is a reason why other platforms are successful and popular.

However instead of trying it at a static range, try to see if you can find a way to borrow one for a tactical class or an USPSA/IDPA match. You learn a lot about a gun that way.

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 8:02 AM
More like the internal combustion engine. Been used for years . . . still a solid choice for transportation.

No way dude, that's like comparing an internal combustion engine from 1911, to one in 2012. :D

The 1911 equivalent internal combustion engine:

http://www.2oostvogels.nl/deutz.jpg

The modern [brand x] pistol internal combustion engine equivalent:

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/images/12675622%2Bw440/0901_10_z%2B2009_ferrari_california%2Bengine.jpg

Both are engines, but which one would you trust to get you over the mountain?

AAShooter
09-05-2012, 8:06 AM
No way dude, that's like comparing an internal combustion engine from 1911, to one in 2012. :D

The 1911 equivalent internal combustion engine:

http://www.2oostvogels.nl/deutz.jpg

The modern [brand x] pistol internal combustion engine equivalent:

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/images/12675622%2Bw440/0901_10_z%2B2009_ferrari_california%2Bengine.jpg

Both are engines, but which one would you trust to get you over the mountain?

The great thing is that both would probably work--just like the various versions of the 1911.

AAShooter
09-05-2012, 8:09 AM
Ah, the Glock . . .

http://library.thinkquest.org/C006011/images/pictures/wankel.jpg

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 8:09 AM
I guess it all depends on how you define "work."

I love my 1911 for one purpose. Making a really small hole in the center of a static target. Beyond that usage model, there are way better options in the safe.

Again, just my opinion as someone who was under the 1911 spell for a long time.

POINTMANDDT
09-05-2012, 8:12 AM
Not sure where to go with this so I will make some general comments. There are many quality 1911s out there--many are not determined by the manufacturer and model number. Especially for less expensive 1911's, they will require additional work to get them "tuned" in.

As far a Glocks, they are relatively inexpensive guns that tend to run out of the box, are easy to maintain (no fitted parts), and easy to clean. It is hard to beat their reliability but they are not as precise as a 1911 design due to the differences in the way they lock up. This is often not an issue for defensive applications.

For the price of a Glock, it is difficult to get a 1911 that runs well and is reliable without a bunch of custom work.

I am a pretty big 1911 fan but have come to appreciate the simplicity/reliability of a Glock. I always say "Give me a Glock with a 1911 trigger and I am all over that." Glock triggers suck.


I will agree the glock STOCK trigger is no good and its hard to find a trigger better than the 1911. But, I have done my own work on my glock trigger getting anywhere from 3.43 lbs to 1.74 lbs depending on the striker spring I use. I also used a ghost rocket trigger and polished the parts and my break is just as clean if no cleaner than my 1911. The trigger travel is a whole different thing and I know 1911 guys hate that long pull and I can't hold that against them. From an accuracy stand point the 1911 is great, I can give that to the 1911, but within 50 yards I have yet to meet anyone that can get tighter groups with their 1911 than I can with my glock 17 or 19,not to say they're not out there because I know they are.

acolytes
09-05-2012, 10:11 AM
This^^^, "gotta pay to play" :)

To me, I love 1911 because the slim grip, the trigger, the look & the history behind it, period!

+1

gundad
09-05-2012, 11:11 AM
They are like mammary glands because there is nothing not to like about them. I mostly like the grip that fits my hand and trigger though.

bombadillo
09-05-2012, 12:56 PM
Kind of like the jeep guys say "Its a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand."


I'll say; "Its a 1911 thing, you wouldn't understand."


Thats the best way I can describe it. You either get and have the feel of a 1911 or you don't. I LOVE my 1911's and they're my favorite to shoot except maybe my .22lr pistol as well. You either feel it or not, whether its a RIA or a full house Stan Chen custom job.

Dont_Shoot_im_Chinese
09-05-2012, 1:10 PM
I intend to shoot my 1911 thousands and thousands of time for the pure satisfaction it gives me and to build strong trust with myself and the "limited magazine"

POINTMANDDT
09-05-2012, 1:14 PM
Kind of like the jeep guys say "Its a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand."


I'll say; "Its a 1911 thing, you wouldn't understand."


Thats the best way I can describe it. You either get and have the feel of a 1911 or you don't. I LOVE my 1911's and they're my favorite to shoot except maybe my .22lr pistol as well. You either feel it or not, whether its a RIA or a full house Stan Chen custom job.


I love my 1911, I just love my glock more. Because what I have seen on the range the malfunctions of the 1911's. I saw one guy at a match that lubed his 1911 every 200-250 rounds. :confused:If there was a 1911 that had a full frame (grip) four inch barrel in 9mm and as dependable as a glock. I would be all over that.:D Because the look, feel and trigger of the 1911 is amazing.

Lead Waster
09-05-2012, 1:16 PM
I'll pass along a funny story. I took a four-day handgun class and a guy came with a pimped out Glock. He spent a pile of money on modifications and was glad to tell you about them. He would go to the line with a can of spray lubrication. After every few shots he would spray the gun with the lubricant to keep it from malfunctioning. Even with that, the gun would often malfunction. Despite his claim that it would be extremely reliable once it was broken in, you could not have given me that gun. I am glad he was happy with his gun but I would not own it.

Well, this story only says one thing "Don't modify your guns if you don't know what you are doing".

You can turn anything into an unreliable piece of junk if you spend enough money on it.

I'm thinking that if that same guy showed up with a stock glock, nothing interesting would have happened.

I'm sure that in the future sometime, someone else will design a better gun with an amazing trigger and we'll be debating how the 1911 trigger sucks compared to the psychic trigger of the Megawhomp 2256.

Merc1138
09-05-2012, 1:20 PM
I love my 1911, I just love my glock more. Because what I have seen on the range the malfunctions of the 1911's. I saw one guy at a match that lubed his 1911 every 200-250 rounds. :confused:If there was a 1911 that had a full frame (grip) four inch barrel in 9mm and as dependable as a glock. I would be all over that.:D Because the look, feel and trigger of the 1911 is amazing.

Honestly, reports about reliability from matches are one of the last places I'd be willing to consider info from and here's why.

This applies to people overclocking computers, tuning car engines, and tuning 1911's, AR's, whatever. There's a point of balance where things can run either reliably, or super smooth/tight/crisp/etc. A gun tuned to the point where it barely works with one specific load but has the best trigger in the world isn't really a testament to the reliability of that type of gun in general if it fails with a different(but common) ammo load due to a slightly harder prime, or the shooter let their wrist rotate an extra half a degree, or it's 94 degrees outside instead of the optimum 73 degrees that the gun runs the best.

POINTMANDDT
09-05-2012, 1:34 PM
Honestly, reports about reliability from matches are one of the last places I'd be willing to consider info from and here's why.

This applies to people overclocking computers, tuning car engines, and tuning 1911's, AR's, whatever. There's a point of balance where things can run either reliably, or super smooth/tight/crisp/etc. A gun tuned to the point where it barely works with one specific load but has the best trigger in the world isn't really a testament to the reliability of that type of gun in general if it fails with a different(but common) ammo load due to a slightly harder prime, or the shooter let their wrist rotate an extra half a degree, or it's 94 degrees outside instead of the optimum 73 degrees that the gun runs the best.

I can see that.....

agent.5
09-05-2012, 1:40 PM
I'm sure that in the future sometime, someone else will design a better gun with an amazing trigger and we'll be debating how the 1911 trigger sucks compared to the psychic trigger of the Megawhomp 2256.


electronic trigger, but then you will need "tactical" battery

SilverTauron
09-05-2012, 1:48 PM
Ill just post this here rant. People with thin skins can click the back button now.

Still with me?

One problem in the gun world, if we can call it that, is one of mistaken priorities. People consider Glocks superior because they can run for 10s of thousands of rounds with little maintenance, police agencies across America use them, and they're easy to shoot well.

If one works in a police agency, military unit, or public agency where the weapon is likely to be damaged and marred in its daily use then such an appliance makes sense. This thankfully is NOT the environment encountered by the typical concealed carrier in America. IT guys, insurance salesman, claims processors, and public business owners aren't jumping out of airplanes and marching 40 kilos in a jungle. Not only is the typical gun owner not in danger of losing their sidearm on a HALO insertion, but most of us with families and responsibilities outside of shooting flatly cannot afford to run 10,000 rounds of ammo through a centerfire handgun.

In my neck of the woods it would cost me $2500 to shoot that many 9mm practice rounds. 10K rounds of 45ACP would run nearly $4000. Its one reason why police agencies prefer heavy trigger handguns. A 10lb trigger is a lot cheaper than funding comprehensive handgun training, which is why I can only laugh when people discuss high round count reliability like it is the ballistic holy grail. There are only a small number of shooters who fund that kind of high volume shooting out of their own pocket, and if one has that kind of disposable income than laying aside extra money for gun work won't be a challenge.

I can hear the objections already:"what if your gun FAILS?"

Well, there's no such thing as certainty. A Glock can work perfectly every time you go to the range, and then Kb! the instant a burglar draws down on you. The fact that the weapon went through 10,000 rounds previously without fail won't be much comfort as you face permanent disability or death at the hands of a crook.

As far as a failure is concerned, so what if your extractor quits. Unless one works in a government job that involves travel into places not easily found on a map, a failure means a scrubbed range session and a trip to the local shipping firm or gunsmith. Hardly a crisis of monumental proportions, especially if the owner has a backup handgun-which should be the case for all gun owners. An angry & crazed cop, a bad factory round, or just plain bad luck could all result in your primary weapon being broken or seized. 2 is 1, and one is none.

As such, the comments to the effect that the 1911 is unreliable-some of whom ive said on here myself-are wrong. Most of us won't shoot often enough to break anything serious, and those who do won't be seriously impacted by having to send the weapon off for service. Put the broken gun in a box to send in for warranty, and load up the backup.

t0kie
09-05-2012, 1:58 PM
...If there was a 1911 that had a full frame (grip) four inch barrel in 9mm and as dependable as a glock. I would be all over that.:D Because the look, feel and trigger of the 1911 is amazing.

Hello brother, yes there are some that will fit your need. This is just one of them, call Bill Wilson for details: http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-cqb-compact.asp

agent.5
09-05-2012, 2:01 PM
i actually think the ideal 9mm 4" barrel 1911 "platform" is the wilson spec ops 9. It is designed, from the ground up, to shoot 9mm.

Rorge Retson
09-05-2012, 2:01 PM
Honestly, reports about reliability from matches are one of the last places I'd be willing to consider info from and here's why.

This applies to people overclocking computers, tuning car engines, and tuning 1911's, AR's, whatever. There's a point of balance where things can run either reliably, or super smooth/tight/crisp/etc. A gun tuned to the point where it barely works with one specific load but has the best trigger in the world isn't really a testament to the reliability of that type of gun in general if it fails with a different(but common) ammo load due to a slightly harder prime, or the shooter let their wrist rotate an extra half a degree, or it's 94 degrees outside instead of the optimum 73 degrees that the gun runs the best.

Ill just post this here rant. People with thin skins can click the back button now.

Still with me?

One problem in the gun world, if we can call it that, is one of mistaken priorities. People consider Glocks superior because they can run for 10s of thousands of rounds with little maintenance, police agencies across America use them, and they're easy to shoot well.

If one works in a police agency, military unit, or public agency where the weapon is likely to be damaged and marred in its daily use then such an appliance makes sense. This thankfully is NOT the environment encountered by the typical concealed carrier in America. IT guys, insurance salesman, claims processors, and public business owners aren't jumping out of airplanes and marching 40 kilos in a jungle. Not only is the typical gun owner not in danger of losing their sidearm on a HALO insertion, but most of us with families and responsibilities outside of shooting flatly cannot afford to run 10,000 rounds of ammo through a centerfire handgun.

In my neck of the woods it would cost me $2500 to shoot that many 9mm practice rounds. 10K rounds of 45ACP would run nearly $4000. Its one reason why police agencies prefer heavy trigger handguns. A 10lb trigger is a lot cheaper than funding comprehensive handgun training, which is why I can only laugh when people discuss high round count reliability like it is the ballistic holy grail. There are only a small number of shooters who fund that kind of high volume shooting out of their own pocket, and if one has that kind of disposable income than laying aside extra money for gun work won't be a challenge.

I can hear the objections already:"what if your gun FAILS?"

Well, there's no such thing as certainty. A Glock can work perfectly every time you go to the range, and then Kb! the instant a burglar draws down on you. The fact that the weapon went through 10,000 rounds previously without fail won't be much comfort as you face permanent disability or death at the hands of a crook.

As far as a failure is concerned, so what if your extractor quits. Unless one works in a government job that involves travel into places not easily found on a map, a failure means a scrubbed range session and a trip to the local shipping firm or gunsmith. Hardly a crisis of monumental proportions, especially if the owner has a backup handgun-which should be the case for all gun owners. An angry & crazed cop, a bad factory round, or just plain bad luck could all result in your primary weapon being broken or seized. 2 is 1, and one is none.

As such, the comments to the effect that the 1911 is unreliable-some of whom ive said on here myself-are wrong. Most of us won't shoot often enough to break anything serious, and those who do won't be seriously impacted by having to send the weapon off for service. Put the broken gun in a box to send in for warranty, and load up the backup.

Excellent posts guys, thank you. :)

t0kie
09-05-2012, 2:07 PM
i actually think the ideal 9mm 4" barrel 1911 "platform" is the wilson spec ops 9. It is designed, from the ground up, to shoot 9mm.

Yeah that thing is niceeeee, but it's hard to find one :)

Actually, there is another one by Kimber, but I don't know if it's on the roster or not (still doable with SSE): http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/aegis-ii/pro-aegis-ii

I'm not a fan of Kimber because of the firing pin safety & lousy customer service, but had owned some in the past & they were fine.

agent.5
09-05-2012, 2:09 PM
Yeah that thing is niceeeee, but it's hard to find one :)

Actually, there is another one by Kimber, but I don't know if it's on the roster or not (still doable with SSE): http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/aegis-ii/pro-aegis-ii

I'm not a fan of Kimber because of the firing pin safety & lousy customer service, but had owned some in the past & they were fine.



stay away from kimber. Stick with series 70 (without firing pin block).

t0kie
09-05-2012, 2:11 PM
stay away from kimber.

I did :D

InGrAM
09-05-2012, 2:13 PM
Yeah that thing is niceeeee, but it's hard to find one :)

Actually, there is another one by Kimber, but I don't know if it's on the roster or not (still doable with SSE): http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/aegis-ii/pro-aegis-ii

I'm not a fan of Kimber because of the firing pin safety & lousy customer service, but had owned some in the past & they were fine.

NTM, plastic MSHings...

Who the hell wants to spend $1500 on a 1911 and get a plastic MSH?

t0kie
09-05-2012, 2:16 PM
NTM, plastic MSHings...

Who the hell wants to spend $1500 on a 1911 and get a plastic MSH?

I'm just put it out there because of the specs that he described: 4" in 9mm...

Hopalong
09-05-2012, 2:28 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, I really don't.

I have a "1911 style" EMP.

I like the trigger, the flatness, and the safety.

I have other pistols of different platforms, shapes and sizes

I like them as well

Because I'm a gun guy.

POINTMANDDT
09-05-2012, 2:43 PM
Hello brother, yes there are some that will fit your need. This is just one of them, call Bill Wilson for details: http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-cqb-compact.asp

Thanks man I appreciate it. For that price I better be able to curve bullets around corners lol Are Wilson combat pistol as reliable or more reliable than a glock? If so that could be my next purchase.

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 3:28 PM
Ill just post this here rant. People with thin skins can click the back button now.

Still with me?

One problem in the gun world, if we can call it that, is one of mistaken priorities. People consider Glocks superior because they can run for 10s of thousands of rounds with little maintenance, police agencies across America use them, and they're easy to shoot well.

If one works in a police agency, military unit, or public agency where the weapon is likely to be damaged and marred in its daily use then such an appliance makes sense. This thankfully is NOT the environment encountered by the typical concealed carrier in America. IT guys, insurance salesman, claims processors, and public business owners aren't jumping out of airplanes and marching 40 kilos in a jungle. Not only is the typical gun owner not in danger of losing their sidearm on a HALO insertion, but most of us with families and responsibilities outside of shooting flatly cannot afford to run 10,000 rounds of ammo through a centerfire handgun.

In my neck of the woods it would cost me $2500 to shoot that many 9mm practice rounds. 10K rounds of 45ACP would run nearly $4000. Its one reason why police agencies prefer heavy trigger handguns. A 10lb trigger is a lot cheaper than funding comprehensive handgun training, which is why I can only laugh when people discuss high round count reliability like it is the ballistic holy grail. There are only a small number of shooters who fund that kind of high volume shooting out of their own pocket, and if one has that kind of disposable income than laying aside extra money for gun work won't be a challenge.

I can hear the objections already:"what if your gun FAILS?"

Well, there's no such thing as certainty. A Glock can work perfectly every time you go to the range, and then Kb! the instant a burglar draws down on you. The fact that the weapon went through 10,000 rounds previously without fail won't be much comfort as you face permanent disability or death at the hands of a crook.

As far as a failure is concerned, so what if your extractor quits. Unless one works in a government job that involves travel into places not easily found on a map, a failure means a scrubbed range session and a trip to the local shipping firm or gunsmith. Hardly a crisis of monumental proportions, especially if the owner has a backup handgun-which should be the case for all gun owners. An angry & crazed cop, a bad factory round, or just plain bad luck could all result in your primary weapon being broken or seized. 2 is 1, and one is none.

As such, the comments to the effect that the 1911 is unreliable-some of whom ive said on here myself-are wrong. Most of us won't shoot often enough to break anything serious, and those who do won't be seriously impacted by having to send the weapon off for service. Put the broken gun in a box to send in for warranty, and load up the backup.

The the problem with this logic is the 1911 fails with considerably more frequency. It's a more complex pistol, with more moving parts, with more failure points, and naturally a higher rate of failure.

Can Glocks fail? Sure
Will it fail on the 10001 round, possibly. But I'd rather have a gun that fails 1:10001 than one that fails 1:x, with x being less than 1K, which has been my experience.

SilverTauron
09-05-2012, 4:36 PM
The the problem with this logic is the 1911 fails with considerably more frequency. It's a more complex pistol, with more moving parts, with more failure points, and naturally a higher rate of failure.


You cannot back this statement, unless you have shot every 1911 ever made.

Any mass produced item will have variances in quality.Look at the Beretta 92 series. Some pistols run thousands upon thousands of rounds without problems. Other seemingly identical guns eat barrel locking blocks every 500 rounds.

So it is with Glocks and 1911s.Most examples of both work great. Some examples of both run like crap. Glocks are not all bulletproof, and sub $1000 1911s are not jam-o-matics.

Speaking for my own 1911s, I intentionally shot 100 rounds though my $400 used Taurus PT1911 straight from the gun store, without lubing or cleaning the pistol first.

The gun was drier than a Baghdad sidewalk at high noon. Did it choke? Every single round I stuck in the mag fed and fired as it should, including the hollowpoints. According to the naysayers, my made in Brazil ,$400 1911 should have failed. It didn't. Still hasn't actually. :D

Forget stats and torture tests. Does the gun in YOUR HANDS work well?




Can Glocks fail? Sure
Will it fail on the 10001 round, possibly. But I'd rather have a gun that fails 1:10001 than one that fails 1:x, with x being less than 1K, which has been my experience.

How do you know YOUR particular gun is that reliable?

Since we know there are subtle differences in build quality of mass produced guns, a 10,000 round torture test on gun X only means gun X fired 10,000 rounds without issue.Stating that the same pistol in your safe can do it too is an assumption, albeit one with anecdotal support.

The only way to know your pistol will last that long is if you fire 10,000 rounds through it yourself. Otherwise, for all you and any of us know that Glock in your holster is going to fail at round 4000 instead.

Good on Guns and Ammo that they can torture test a gun. That doesn't mean an example you and I would own is capable of that. Conversely, maybe THEYRE the ones with the dud and perhaps the gun in your save can last 20,000 rounds. There's only one way to know, and that's by practicing with YOUR gun.

Assuming is a bad habit to get into. Rather than play crystal ball, I choose my weapons based on real world observation. Will my gun last 5000 rounds? Will it explode? Will it turn into a magical bean stalk? I don't know.

I DO know I can put 100 rounds into a 5" group at 60 feet offhand with my exact 1911.No assumptions need apply to real-world use .;)

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 6:42 PM
LOL - It's funny when someone attaches their ego to a particular firearm.

Can you tell me with a straight face, that 5 out of the box, completely stock, middle of the road 1911's, lets say $800-1200 price range, will perform better than 5 stock, out of the box Glocks?

If not, I rest my case. .

I own both types of pistols, and have put THOUSANDS of rounds through both. I can say with 100% certainty, my Glock which has never had a single failure of any kind, wins hands down. I see 1911's fail every IDPA match, rarely do I see a poly gun fail. That is anecdotal evidence, but it's a pattern that repeats itself over and over and over again.

Queue the 1911 excuse-o-nator

Shapes And Colors
09-05-2012, 6:57 PM
LOL - It's funny when someone attaches their ego to a particular firearm.

Can you tell me with a straight face, that 5 out of the box, completely stock, middle of the road 1911's, lets say $800-1200 price range, will perform better than 5 stock, out of the box Glocks?

If not, I rest my case. .

I own both types of pistols, and have put THOUSANDS of rounds through both. I can say with 100% certainty, my Glock which has never had a single failure of any kind, wins hands down. I see 1911's fail every IDPA match, rarely do I see a poly gun fail. That is anecdotal evidence, but it's a pattern that repeats itself over and over and over again.

Queue the 1911 excuse-o-nator

Out of curiosity, you said you own both types of pistols and your Glock has been flawless. You then say the 1911's that failed were ones you saw in IDPA matches. How have your 1911's been?

POINTMANDDT
09-05-2012, 6:57 PM
LOL - It's funny when someone attaches their ego to a particular firearm.

Can you tell me with a straight face, that 5 out of the box, completely stock, middle of the road 1911's, lets say $800-1200 price range, will perform better than 5 stock, out of the box Glocks?

If not, I rest my case. .

I own both types of pistols, and have put THOUSANDS of rounds through both. I can say with 100% certainty, my Glock which has never had a single failure of any kind, wins hands down. I see 1911's fail every IDPA match, rarely do I see a poly gun fail. That is anecdotal evidence, but it's a pattern that repeats itself over and over and over again.

Queue the 1911 excuse-o-nator


Glad to see I'm not the only one that sees this. :hide:

Snoopy47
09-05-2012, 7:00 PM
A Glock is a Glock is a Glock.

When one says Glock I know it is made by Glock.

When one says 1911 I have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

If I were to try and convince one of you the greatness of the 1911 I wouldnít bring my 1947 Colt out. I would bring my Les Baer Custom Carry.
1) Beavertail with speed hump
2) Serrated front strap
3) VZ G10 grips
4) High contrast night sights
5) Extended safety
6) 4.5 pound trigger

The value is there in a $1,900 1911 as much as there is in a fancy car.

A top tier 1911 is a luxury item. Make no mistake.

I had a very interesting conversation at work today with two coworkers of mine. They were all excited about how little they paid for their latest acquisitions. $500 for a lever action rifle, and $250 for a shotgun. They looked at me like I was nuts with my five 1911ís and asked why I would have so many of the same gun, and I was all excited I picked up my last Les Baer for $1600 and saved $600.

SAME GUN????????????????? I thought they were gun guys. None of my 1911's are the same gun.

They clearly have more guns than me. They like buying guns. I like shooting guns, and I like shooting very well made guns. I donít need 20 guns.

A 1911 with the above attributes is an incredibly easy gun to shoot well, and endurance improves greatly with a beavertail grip safety.

I encourage everyone to put 100 rounds through a specific gun of yours every month. Focus on getting better with each shot. Get back to us with your results in a year's time.

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 7:03 PM
Out of curiosity, you said you own both types of pistols and your Glock has been flawless. You then say the 1911's that failed were ones you saw in IDPA matches. How have your 1911's been?

My 1911 fails once about every 200 rounds. Just a guess. It really depends on what ammo I'm shooting. It's very finicky with regards to COL.

IPSICK
09-05-2012, 9:00 PM
Don't like make it sound like all poly guns are flawless. I've had a month old M&P fail with a broken striker and a Sig Pro have failures as well. 1911s are actually fairly simple compared to other guns outside of Glocks. I've seen my fair share of Glock failures at matches too.

chozenfew805
09-05-2012, 9:26 PM
Aside from the nitty gritty, it's always going to be personal preference based on fact and or fiction. The reason it intrigues me is because it's a piece of history that redefined stopping power with the 45acp. It served as a sidearm for our troops and introduced a bad day to countless personnel in different conflicts overseas . The 1911's operating system has been around for over a century and is still in production by dozens of different manufacturers.

RugerNo1
09-05-2012, 9:27 PM
Well duh!

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff320/planetstation/1911tanks.gif

Josh3239
09-05-2012, 9:33 PM
I just put around 500 rounds through my 1911 9mm in the last 7 days. I didn't have one stoppage/failure/malfunction. My 1911 .45 on the other hand has had a few stoppages a few hours ago at the range, I attribute that likely to a combination of the Wilson multi-comp bushing (which works real well btw) and light loads as it has never had a stoppage before. Gen 2 Glock 17 also ran like a sewing machine tonight.

markw
09-05-2012, 10:03 PM
Am I the only one who feels this way?

No, the glock guys feel that way too. :)

Anti-Hero
09-05-2012, 11:01 PM
Don't like make it sound like all poly guns are flawless. I've had a month old M&P fail with a broken striker and a Sig Pro have failures as well. 1911s are actually fairly simple compared to other guns outside of Glocks. I've seen my fair share of Glock failures at matches too.

Agreed, poly guns are not flawless.

SoCal326
09-05-2012, 11:46 PM
. . . It felt like I was holding a pinewood derby car in my hand. "Honestly," I thought, "could there be a pistol any less ergonomic?" . . .


I have always been pleased with the ergonomics of the 1911. Which frame does the OP enjoy the feel of?

Shapes And Colors
09-06-2012, 1:31 AM
My 1911 fails once about every 200 rounds. Just a guess. It really depends on what ammo I'm shooting. It's very finicky with regards to COL.

Sounds like you've got a barrel with an issue. Get it checked out (maybe its under warranty? Not sure how old it is), and try again. My 1911 runs flawlessly every time, so it is possible. :D

Rorge Retson
09-06-2012, 6:47 AM
I have always been pleased with the ergonomics of the 1911. Which frame does the OP enjoy the feel of?

Love the feel of my CZ SP-01, and my XD-45 is a close 2nd.

y3kspoo
09-06-2012, 7:06 AM
There's a saying you hear a lot around car shows, "They don't build them like that anymore!" Stay quiet for a moment or two and you will hear a Mechanic in the background say "Thank God!"

Horton Fenty
09-06-2012, 7:09 AM
Can you tell me with a straight face, that 5 out of the box, completely stock, middle of the road 1911's, lets say $800-1200 price range, will perform better than 5 stock, out of the box Glocks?

I'd bet they all work fine.

My 1911 fails once about every 200 rounds. Just a guess. It really depends on what ammo I'm shooting. It's very finicky with regards to COL.

Bummer. I'd find out why, cause it shouldn't fail. I have a couple hundred factory rounds and close to five-hundred hand loads through mine and it failed to chamber the last round one time....with factory ammo.

In my opinion comparing all 1911's to all Glock's is not fair. So many people make 1911's, only Glock makes Glock's.

SamayouSamurai
09-06-2012, 7:22 AM
As they say, buy a 1911 . . . marry a gunsmith. lol

Hell no. I'll be my own smithy. I self fitted a Safety into my very first 1911. Spent about 2 hours with Dremel to grind away the metal to fit new Safety was fun.

t0kie
09-06-2012, 7:25 AM
Thanks man I appreciate it. For that price I better be able to curve bullets around corners lol Are Wilson combat pistol as reliable or more reliable than a glock? If so that could be my next purchase.

Wilson Combat is one of the best in the business, but if your questions about reliability or more reliable than your Glock, I guess it depends to whom you ask that question., and I think you already have your own answer if I ask you that :)

Anti-Hero
09-06-2012, 7:32 AM
I'd bet they all work fine.



Bummer. I'd find out why, cause it shouldn't fail. I have a couple hundred factory rounds and close to five-hundred hand loads through mine and it failed to chamber the last round one time....with factory ammo.

In my opinion comparing all 1911's to all Glock's is not fair. So many people make 1911's, only Glock makes Glock's.

I know why it fails, mostly when firing rounds with a specific COL greater than x. With x being in spec. For the .45 ACP. But I consider that a failure, if it only shoots ammo at one end of the spec. reliably.

The fact that so many make 1911's IS part of the problem, a big part. Beyond the basic shape and dimensions there is no standard. Each company is free to produce whatever pile of crap they dream up, and the end user gets to be the beta tester.

Then they attach stupid requirements like break in periods.

SamayouSamurai
09-06-2012, 7:50 AM
My 1911 fails once about every 200 rounds. Just a guess. It really depends on what ammo I'm shooting. It's very finicky with regards to COL.

That's odd. I only lightly lube by SA TRP every other range visit. I usually put from 250 to 300 rounds per visit. I only use factory ammo. Wolf, Winchester and Federal are what I used so far. I'll be shooting Herter next. No problem so far.
My TRP was broken-in after around 700 rounds. It's slightly over 1k rounds at the moment. On my way to 10K rounds :43:

Anti-Hero
09-06-2012, 8:38 AM
It's not odd, it's fairly common! It's just masked by people who buy aftermarket magazines, recoil springs, and feed ramp modifications along with a whole host of other "enhancements."

If you have to modify a gun from its factory configuration to make it reliable, that's a failure in my book.

negolien
09-06-2012, 8:45 AM
Can't go wrong with something that's worked fine for 100 years. Not to mention in commiefornia the limits 10 rounds so might just be me but If I' am limited to 10 rounds I'll take a .45 thank you.

Horton Fenty
09-06-2012, 8:54 AM
The fact that so many make 1911's IS part of the problem, a big part. Beyond the basic shape and dimensions there is no standard. Each company is free to produce whatever pile of crap they dream up, and the end user gets to be the beta tester.

Then they attach stupid requirements like break in periods.

Totally agree with the first part. I don't mind when companies say their pistols need a break in period however. Heard it from Kahr first and at the time I thought it was bs, they were correct though. I also used to think a couple hundred round was a lot.

I like my Colt very much, to be specific. I remember when I first got it I'd been shooting the crap out of my Blackhawk and at first the Colt didn't impress me. The Blackhawk is well broken in and the trigger is much smoother, more even, and lighter than the Colt.

The original question was what's the intrigue. I'm not really a pistol guy, only have six and one is a 22. Out of them all my proficiency level went up faster with the 1911. I went from "oh my god I can't hit a damn thing" to "it's funny when you chuckle after every shot" a lot faster than anything I have or have ever shot. That intrigued me.

It's not odd, it's fairly common! It's just masked by people who buy aftermarket magazines, recoil springs, and feed ramp modifications along with a whole host of other "enhancements."

If you have to modify a gun from its factory configuration to make it reliable, that's a failure in my book.

Isn't that the problem not the solution? People trying to fix issues themselves that is.

Merc1138
09-06-2012, 9:33 AM
It's not odd, it's fairly common! It's just masked by people who buy aftermarket magazines, recoil springs, and feed ramp modifications along with a whole host of other "enhancements."

If you have to modify a gun from its factory configuration to make it reliable, that's a failure in my book.

That would indeed suck, but also consider how many threads on this forum about all sorts of guns(not just 1911s) involve people buying a gun and while it's still in jail for 10 days are asking about changing triggers, slide stops, springs, sights, etc. when they haven't even shot the thing yet. Plus you've got the DIY youtube gunsmithing on top of that.

You see the same thing all the time in the centerfire rifle section too.

"Uhh, I bought this spikes buffer for my AR and now it won't cycle"
"Did it work before?"
"Yes"
"So take the part out"
"But this part should make my gun work better, someone told me so!"
"Well now your gun doesn't work at all, go back to stock"
"You're just a troll. Can anyone suggest what I need to do with my gas port to make it work with this buffer?"

Lead Waster
09-06-2012, 9:46 AM
IMHO, Glocks seem more reliable because they sell cheap OEM magazines and when you use Glock made magazines in a Glock made pistol, everything is pretty standard and to spec.

For 1911's, there are dozens of brands of guns, all made differently, and there are way more than dozens of magazine manufacturers. So you would tend to get more mismatches.

ZombieTactics
09-06-2012, 9:51 AM
Guns, like cars and a whole host of other things, carry with them a mystique or cache'. In the case of the 1911 this is doubly the case. Add history to it, mix with a touch of bravado and bake.

It simply cannot be discounted that the 1911 was the first genuinely reliable semi-auto pistol. It was the first you could really bet your life on and remained the pinnacle of excellent handgun design for decades. In some ways, a well-built & maintained 1911 still holds that status. It's like a 1960s or 1970s muscle car. Sure, there are arguably "better" things now, but there is an undeniable "awesomeness factor" which cannot be overlooked.

You also simply cannot ignore the trigger. There is nothing better than a good 1911 trigger ... PERIOD.

Add to this the "cult of Cooper" aspect. Jim Cooper is legendary for having advanced the art of the pistol and was a staunch proponent of both the 1911 and the .45ACP round with which it is associated. The fact that Cooper didn't know jack squat about ballistics doesn't change any of this cult hero status or the aura it bestows upon the 1911.

1911 is often over-praised by adherents and just as often under-praised by detractors. That's a sign that it must have something going for it.

I've owned 2. They were both good guns. I like other things better now. Whatever.

Striker
09-06-2012, 9:54 AM
It's not odd, it's fairly common! It's just masked by people who buy aftermarket magazines, recoil springs, and feed ramp modifications along with a whole host of other "enhancements."

If you have to modify a gun from its factory configuration to make it reliable, that's a failure in my book.

And if your next Glock spits brass back in your face constantly, will you use the Apex parts to fix the problem if that's the only option that works? Glocks can be very ammo dependent for accuracy. What if your next one will only shoot 115 gr Tula ammo accurately at 20-25 yards or if you can't find ammo that it shoots accurately at those distances? If you send it back to Glock and it will shoot 2.5"-3" groups at 15 yards, they'll consider that gun in spec and most likely won't do anything for you. Will you replace the barrel with a match grade, fit barrel or will you just shoot that ammo for everything, including defense; provided you've even figured out what ammo it shoots well at distance. M&P 9s are as reliable as any pistol out there; unfortunately there's also a number of them that can't hold a group at 15 yards and beyond. It's not a reliability issue, but it doesn't really matter how reliable the gun is if you can't hit anything with it. Replace the barrel with fitted one or is it GTG or is it useless to you?

POINTMANDDT
09-06-2012, 9:59 AM
Wilson Combat is one of the best in the business, but if your questions about reliability or more reliable than your Glock, I guess it depends to whom you ask that question., and I think you already have your own answer if I ask you that :)


Thanks for the info. As far as reliability, I can only speak for what I own and shot or have seen on the range. I don't assume to know how reliability a Wilson combat pistol is, because I don't have too much experience with one. Even your nice custom which I love to shoot hint hint ;)lol I have never seen jam.

However, I did do a search on the spec 9 yesterday and found a video where his Wilson combat spec 9 jams on the 13th or 14th round. But, it worked fine for the rest of the video and other videos he made (might be that break in period thing lol) My whole contention is, for that kind of money it should be flawless out of the box, otherwise what are people spending that kind of money for; the looks or just to say they have one? For me if a firearm cost 5 times more than a particular firearm it should perform (or at least the shooter should be able to perform)5 times better in every category (ie accuracy, feel/feel, ergonomics, etc).

Here is a the video of the Wilson spec ops 9. The jam occurs around 2:15 during rapid fire, but watch till around 2:35. That's where he stats he had two more rounds left and it may have jammed, which if you wath closely it did. This is just one video like this and it wouldn't be enought to sway me from buying one if it truly just was a fluke. BTW why can't we have a range like this in the bay area?:confused::(

MAd-FslcpkY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

POINTMANDDT
09-06-2012, 10:13 AM
That would indeed suck, but also consider how many threads on this forum about all sorts of guns(not just 1911s) involve people buying a gun and while it's still in jail for 10 days are asking about changing triggers, slide stops, springs, sights, etc. when they haven't even shot the thing yet. Plus you've got the DIY youtube gunsmithing on top of that.

You see the same thing all the time in the centerfire rifle section too.

"Uhh, I bought this spikes buffer for my AR and now it won't cycle"
"Did it work before?"
"Yes"
"So take the part out"
"But this part should make my gun work better, someone told me so!"
"Well now your gun doesn't work at all, go back to stock"
"You're just a troll. Can anyone suggest what I need to do with my gas port to make it work with this buffer?"

I think he meant modding it to make it more reliable. For example I for one am not a fan of the Glock trigger, grip, or sights. So it's the first thing I replace for my own preferences. But, it doesn't increase the reliability. It just increases how efficient I can use it and the mods won't break the bank;)

bombadillo
09-06-2012, 10:36 AM
Its pretty hard to screw up a nice gun. Any gun with a few mods can be as reliable as any glock IMO. If you throat and polish a 1911 barrel, give it a solid trigger job, and use any reasonably quality mags like CMC or Wilson Combat, and you'll have a gun that will run through countless rounds. I've never had a failure on my colt and its a work of art with everything done by hand. I've never had a problem with my Dan Wesson either and its probably not half of the value of the colt, but has a lot of the same things done to it.

Its not a plastic vs steel thing because CZ's, Sigs, and other steel guns function just fine and reliability is there. The parts that matter are steel on steel anyway, and all of them need lube to run properly to some extent.

Merc1138
09-06-2012, 10:40 AM
I think he meant modding it to make it more reliable. For example I for one am not a fan of the Glock trigger, grip, or sights. So it's the first thing I replace for my own preferences. But, it doesn't increase the reliability. It just increases how efficient I can use it and the mods won't break the bank;)

Yes, but people do things for performance or reliability without a problem even being there in the first place and as a result create problems. Obviously not everyone does this, and obviously some people simply already know what they want and what works. However I also assume that you have a basic understanding of troubleshooting and if your new trigger didn't work you wouldn't blame Glock for it without checking something else first.