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ExAcHog
09-01-2012, 2:19 PM
Bugging out has been discussed and disected in just about every way on here. One of the things I see commonly talked about is the inability to get out after the SHTF due to the roads being blocked.
Wheather you plan to bug-in at home or hit the road, most are concerned about their ability to get to wherever they are going, once most of the "unprepared" are fleeing to or from whatever.

Something my "loosely assembled group of prepping friends" and I have done to avoid the gridlocked roads is we have studied and mapped the rail lines within our surrounding area. Obviously there were ALOT of details to iron out to make sure this is a workable plan.

Just food for thought....

bill_k_lopez
09-01-2012, 2:21 PM
Cheap dirt bikes.

ExAcHog
09-01-2012, 2:37 PM
For us, we want to be able to take ALOT more with us than what will fit in a small backpack. Dont get me wrong, dirt bikes are great, within my group we have several, as well as a couple atv's and if it comes down to going on a bike or on foot, we are ready to go that route, but unless we are forced to, we want to be able to take enough gear to get restarted more comfortably and securely than with just what we can literally carry.

jaebunz
09-01-2012, 2:47 PM
If you want to be hardcore, map out the sewage systems, including underground ones. Underground sewage systems may be the safest bet if the situation get extremely out of control.

MixedMotives
09-01-2012, 2:59 PM
Use a horse if your not worried about being stealthy plus if need be you can slaughter it for food or if need to be stealthy hike out

Sent from my Galaxy S III using Tapatalk 2

LMTluvr
09-01-2012, 3:00 PM
I gotta checkout the bugout threads....It seems that if SHTF does happen the whole california population is simply gonna move to the mountains..Hope theres alot of deer.

ENDO
09-01-2012, 3:04 PM
You will have to see it coming or martial law may be invoked by the time you've decided to leave and you'll be going nowhere without permission.

Seeker
09-01-2012, 3:10 PM
Flood control channels are also an option, of course when its not raining, but you gonna have the tools to break open padlocks and fences and perfect your lock/gate-defeating skills.

geeknow
09-01-2012, 3:18 PM
Flood control channels are a good idea. Rail lines too. The biggest hazards with those to consider is that, with either, you are entering a 'fatal funnel' of sorts. That doesnt necessarily eliminate them as a possibility, just requires additional thought. I've long been a fan of having a 4x4 only route. I figure that, by taking a route that requires 4x4, I'm already avoiding a lot of crowds, as few here in LA have them...relative to 2wd. I also have dirt bikes and quads for all of my family, but due to their restricted weight carrying ability, they're not my first choice.

CenterMass90068
09-01-2012, 3:22 PM
If you want to be hardcore, map out the sewage systems, including underground ones. Underground sewage systems may be the safest bet if the situation get extremely out of control.

Hell of an idea... always wondered what those rat's tasted like... :) I'm planning on heading out before the crowds do, If not then I'll blaze my own roads. Over sidewalks, through parks, schools, airports, or anything else that stands in my way from getting out. I'm a contractor so the bolt cutters and saws-all in my truck will be getting utilized to the extreme. Might even p/u a cutting torch one day soon. I was stuck in traffic on the 5 yesterday and was looking at how easily the guard rails came apart, just remove a few bolts and "Wa-lah!" your off the highway. Just hope you have a 4x4 for the steep drop down from the highway though. Will probably throw my chainsaw in my truck as well for any fallen timber or telephone poles. I'd really love to fabricate a serious hardcore pilot for the front of my Ram 4x4, you know like the old time ones on the front of locomotives... then I could just straight move everything and everyone from out of my path.

DavidR310
09-01-2012, 3:36 PM
Rule of 3.

Have 3 different exit routes. Then on each of those exit routes have 3 more alternate routes.

CenterMass90068
09-01-2012, 3:55 PM
And map out the routes... all of them. And make sure you don't cross over onto military property cause your trip will probably get cut short... ;)
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6669/bugoutroutes.jpg

ExAcHog
09-01-2012, 3:56 PM
I gotta checkout the bugout threads....It seems that if SHTF does happen the whole california population is simply gonna move to the mountains..Hope theres alot of deer.
I guess this would be the case if we were just randonly heading for the hills with the thought to camp for the rest of our forseable future. I have planned just a little past that.

Some good thoughts so far.Sewage systems: Great idea if your in the heart of the city, but then again your only taking what you can hump.

Flood control channels are a better idea but here in nor cal, half of them are clogged because the city isint allowed to clear them of growth becaue some kind of stupid garter snake lives in them. So they are pretty bound up with cattails and such.

Having tools is another great idea. My friends and I have all the bolt cutters, sawz-alls and oxy acetylene kits we will ever need.

canative
09-01-2012, 4:00 PM
Try this site, http://www.survivalistboards.com/index.php

TimRB
09-01-2012, 4:08 PM
How about an ultralight? They don't cost very much, the licensing requirements are minimal, and they will take off and land in a few hundred feet.

Tim

CenterMass90068
09-01-2012, 4:24 PM
How about an ultralight? They don't cost very much, the licensing requirements are minimal, and they will take off and land in a few hundred feet.

Tim

Better yet, if things are that bad I'd just assume steal a plane like a small Cessna or Piper. Of course I'm talking about a complete collapse in this situation...

KevinB
09-01-2012, 4:40 PM
If your gear, food, and shelter isn't where you are going to you will have to take it with you. Looks to be about 6 tons for a family of 4. That is 2 full sized pickups pulling trailers.

Trying getting that in your mini van.

Manolito
09-01-2012, 4:49 PM
Just asking a question.

Wouldn't it be better to pick a place purchase it and bury a container then fill it with what you need and then you only have to get to walking and evading.

Just asking I live in the country so bugging in is only way for me to plan.

Bill

ExAcHog
09-01-2012, 6:38 PM
Just asking a question.

Wouldn't it be better to pick a place purchase it and bury a container then fill it with what you need and then you only have to get to walking and evading.

Just asking I live in the country so bugging in is only way for me to plan.

Bill

Well Bill, that is pretty much the idea. That being said, since I am not made of money, there is a certain amount of gear, guns, food etc that stay here, 700+ miles from our Bug out location. If need be, we could do any of the above stated ideas, fly an ultralight, steal a hot air balloon, or ride elephants like Hannibals raiders.
In the mean time we prepare contingency plans. Usually the simpler the better.

dieselpower
09-01-2012, 6:47 PM
You will have to see it coming or martial law may be invoked by the time you've decided to leave and you'll be going nowhere without permission.

and the "too logical for the forums" award goes too....:D

If a whole area is being evacuated...expect gridlock

If you plan on going off alone, where few will go, you are going to meet several problems
1) There is a reason no one else is going that way...and its NOT because you are the first to think of it. You need to scout that route out well in advance of chaos...
2) In space, no one can hear you scream...off on a desolate trail...its you against whatever evil waits for you...you really want to bring your family into that?

Expect road blocks, both Official and criminal. You are not going to break through one no matter how cool and big your "Bro-Dozer" is.. Use scouts on bikes traveling 20 minutes ahead of the main cars. Use comms and have a set communication plan to include codes for "scout has been captured". Have alternate routes planned and labeled. Do not share alternate routes with the scouts unless you are telling them of the change in plans. Scouts in cars are going to have to stop at road blocks & must not appear hostile. The radio has to be hidden as to not alert to what they are doing. You can bet the farm a road block is looking for weapons and supplies...anyone carrying those will attract major attention.

G-Man WC
09-01-2012, 7:45 PM
You will have to see it coming or martial law may be invoked by the time you've decided to leave and you'll be going nowhere without permission.

Your right timing will be everything.
I'm not heading out with the Donner Party and will stay put.
IMO and this is only my opinion, it's not the 1950's where the national guard can put a lock down on everyone in what were at one time a lot of small towns. There's just not enough of the NG to go around. They would have trouble doing this in just the bay area (San Jose - Santa Rosa) and everything in between.
The country is to populated now. They could choke off major arteries but not contain everyone. Sure the sheeple will comply and be heared.. Not I
-g

Changalang
09-01-2012, 8:50 PM
http://www.helibott.com/images/photos/helicopter3.jpg

:D

Lone_Gunman
09-01-2012, 9:14 PM
I work for the RR in your area, there are people on the rails all the time. You can't drive 'em unless you've got a hi-railer and you wouldn't want to anyway because a train could run you down at any time. You're going to be walking or on an ATV and you won't be alone.

CenterMass90068
09-01-2012, 9:31 PM
I suggest moving at night and laying low during the day...

G lock
09-01-2012, 9:32 PM
Delta waterways, to the ocean. All I need now is a yacht.

or maybe one of these
http://static.electro-tech-online.com/imgcache/8066-waterworld_01.jpg

11HE9
09-01-2012, 9:57 PM
Interesting this subject would pop up today...


We did a family day trip today, took the kids to Ft.Point (SanFrancisco). I had my basic SHTF bag with me (water filtration, making fire, a few snacks). The holiday gridlock was crazy!!! I can only imagine it being much, much worse in a SHTF scenario :eek::eek::eek:

Packy14
09-01-2012, 10:28 PM
i always have a bugout bag in the car and a weapon... but in la traffic, i'm not gonna make it very far.

ExAcHog
09-02-2012, 7:00 AM
As for the tracks being busy...yep, your 100% right. But we figure that most hard working rail employees wont bother to mess with 20+ folks that are just trying to get somewhere. If the Nat Guard is guarding them, then thats something to deal with.
And no hi-railer needed, they are easily passable via a four wheel drive. I have found that if you lower the PSI in your tires a bit, it is no problem to get on and off the rail bed.
Like anything, especially if things have gone haywire, things will be fluid.

I work for the RR in your area, there are people on the rails all the time. You can't drive 'em unless you've got a hi-railer and you wouldn't want to anyway because a train could run you down at any time. You're going to be walking or on an ATV and you won't be alone.

CenterMass90068
09-02-2012, 8:01 AM
Looking for a map of all southern California railroad lines is proving difficult. All I can really find are ones from the 1880's.... And freight lines are what I'm looking for, not metro.

Ripon83
09-02-2012, 8:05 AM
Other than an earth quake or something literally happening with out warning there really is no reason to be caught in the crowd / gridlock.

I would think in an earthquake situation bugging in for a prepared person would be far far easier than bugging out. If its flood related it would seem there is ample time to move; less of course you are Louisianan by blood line!

dieselpower
09-02-2012, 11:07 AM
Looking for a map of all southern California railroad lines is proving difficult. All I can really find are ones from the 1880's.... And freight lines are what I'm looking for, not metro.

Google Earth can just filter rails for you. So you can map them out as you see fit.

CessnaDriver
09-02-2012, 11:13 AM
Some of you should consider becoming private pilots if
you want the ultimate way out.

RoyBatty
09-02-2012, 11:23 AM
buy a good 4x4 with a winch...and chainsaw

dieselpower
09-02-2012, 11:49 AM
Looking for a map of all southern California railroad lines is proving difficult. All I can really find are ones from the 1880's.... And freight lines are what I'm looking for, not metro.

also remember there are many tracks that give you no option to exit avioding a collision with a train.... California isnt Kansas. You can all of a sudden realize there is not enough room on either side to safely pull off the track. You then need to make a choice between turning around or going on...and that can lead to a major problem even farther down the road when you dont even have the room to turn around

aalvidrez
09-02-2012, 12:15 PM
If you do the math for SoCal... millions of people trying to get out.... Never happen... We are hemed in by desert and the ocean. Makes h2o and food a major problem not even considering security.

RangerJoe
09-02-2012, 12:31 PM
I gotta checkout the bugout threads....It seems that if SHTF does happen the whole california population is simply gonna move to the mountains..Hope theres alot of deer.

Guess what, you're not going to get to the mountains. Where I live only two roads up/down, very defensible. During the Rodney King riots, I understand a bunch of "locals" blocked off the main highway for at least a short period of time before the sheriff assured them they had it under control and sent them home.

The biggest challenge mountain residents would face would be re-supply of food/fuel during some crisis involving unrest. We could defend our position but any unescorted (and even then) supply trucks would probably be ambushed below our stronghold. Not too worried about people on foot, most are far too lazy to venture far from the hypnotic TV device anyway. Let alone a 13 mile hike with a 3000'+ elevation change, especially in the winter.

G lock
09-02-2012, 12:34 PM
If you do the math for SoCal... millions of people trying to get out.... Never happen... We are hemed in by desert and the ocean. Makes h2o and food a major problem not even considering security.

especially if Nor-cal decides that they want to keep the water for themselves or the aqueduct fails, So cal wont last very long

mattt
09-02-2012, 6:45 PM
I would just stay put try ,put up one hell of a fight and see how it goes.I know what I have here.

Squid
09-02-2012, 7:28 PM
hydrogen can be produced with electricity pretty easy.

Just make sure winds are blowing FROM the ocean.

Remember guy in lawn chair w/BB gun?

thenodnarb
09-02-2012, 7:58 PM
hydrogen can be produced with electricity pretty easy.

How is it done at home exactly? I know batteries produce hydrogen gas as a byproduct. PM if you don't want to hijack the thread.

TheChief
09-02-2012, 8:10 PM
How is it done at home exactly? I know batteries produce hydrogen gas as a byproduct. PM if you don't want to hijack the thread.

Non-conductive container, add water and salt, insert copper leads into opposite ends of container and hydrogen gas will start to form on the positive lead and oxygen gas on negative lead.

Do a Google or YouTube search on how to make hydrogen.

11HE9
09-02-2012, 8:23 PM
buy a good 4x4 with a winch...and chainsaw

Got that covered (x2) :)

I just need some heavy duty wire (fence wire) cutters, I could bug out from my house to the Sierra foot hills and only cross a few country roads :D

I guess that would be an option if things got to the "bug out" trigger...

Agent 0range
09-02-2012, 8:52 PM
Guess what, you're not going to get to the mountains. Where I live only two roads up/down, very defensible. During the Rodney King riots, I understand a bunch of "locals" blocked off the main highway for at least a short period of time before the sheriff assured them they had it under control and sent them home.

The biggest challenge mountain residents would face would be re-supply of food/fuel during some crisis involving unrest. We could defend our position but any unescorted (and even then) supply trucks would probably be ambushed below our stronghold. Not too worried about people on foot, most are far too lazy to venture far from the hypnotic TV device anyway. Let alone a 13 mile hike with a 3000'+ elevation change, especially in the winter.

I doubt a few mountain dwellers could contain the masses in a true SHTF situation. If we're talking a mass exodus, it's only a matter of time before you're overrun. But good luck with that! :rolleyes:

m98
09-02-2012, 11:35 PM
buy a good 4x4 with a winch...and chainsaw

I always wanted a honda pilot 4wd or a toyota rav4 or any hybrid suvcar wannabe 4wd.................lol

markw
09-03-2012, 12:38 AM
yeah, those aren't going to go very far. AWD is not the same as a true 4x4. :) Problem with any vehicle is how far you can go. A 4x4 offroad is not going to travel at a "high" rate of speed. Most 4x4's that are very capable offroad are lucky to see mid to high teens in mpg. So your distance is limited by how much fuel you can carry.

odysseus
09-03-2012, 12:50 AM
buy a good 4x4 with a winch...and chainsaw

Also bring some lumber.

Socalman
09-03-2012, 6:29 AM
Some of you should consider becoming private pilots if
you want the ultimate way out.

I am a pilot, how much supplies do you think you will carry after getting the family into the cessna? Oh, maybe you have a Caravan. The 182 will still only give a small amount of cargo after loading 4 adults.

CSACANNONEER
09-03-2012, 6:41 AM
buy a good 4x4 with a winch...and chainsaw

With a Power Wagom, a built up Disco and a Subaru in my stash, I wouldn't rely on any petrolium fuel based vehicle to get me anywhere. It's either animal based (equine and/or llama/alpaca) or a mountain bike.

VegasND
09-03-2012, 8:41 AM
If you believe that you are putting yourself and anybody with you in a lot of danger.
I doubt a few mountain dwellers could contain the masses in a true SHTF situation. If we're talking a mass exodus, it's only a matter of time before you're overrun. But good luck with that! :rolleyes:

Lifeon2whls
09-03-2012, 9:18 AM
Unless you live out in the middle of nowhere, go luck on bugging on when whatever SHTF senario happens and MILLIONS of people are trying to move at once :thumbsup:

xbguru
09-03-2012, 2:15 PM
my bug out vehicle

25mpg and extremely capable 100% street legal and no where near the cost of a jeep

but everyone loves to talk trash on my samurai :rolleyes:

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad247/dcshipwreck/2012-01-14_07-10-21_209.jpg

Nor Cal Scot
09-03-2012, 2:47 PM
^^^sami's rule!

odysseus
09-03-2012, 2:59 PM
How much can you really load out on a Samuri with how many adults? Yeah, they can climb dirt.

my bug out vehicle

25mpg and extremely capable 100% street legal and no where near the cost of a jeep

but everyone loves to talk trash on my samurai :rolleyes:

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad247/dcshipwreck/2012-01-14_07-10-21_209.jpg

rrr70
09-03-2012, 3:07 PM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/402085_2833958575564_1601084580_n.jpg

xbguru
09-03-2012, 3:17 PM
well if it's really a SHTF situation you're going to use every inch of space right? i've loaded almost a full cord of wood and tied it down on top of my cage, so if you tie stuff down to the exo around the whole car i can fit a hell of a lot of stuff and 3 adults total along with all my emergency supplies and spare parts already in my suzuki.


How much can you really load out on a Samuri with how many adults? Yeah, they can climb dirt.

as long as this doesnt happen when you're trying to get out :D

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad247/dcshipwreck/IMG955249.jpg

KevinB
09-03-2012, 9:16 PM
Well lets play a simple little game. Next weekend try going from the LA Basin to say anyplace 300 miles from where you are right now and never use anything more than a secondary road. No state highways or freeways. You cannot stop for fuel or supply's.

Whatever mode of transportation you chose you must carry a family of 4 and everything they will need for a month.

You will never get there with everything you need.

There within lies the problem.

Now imagine 10 million people trying to do the same thing.

Ripon83
09-03-2012, 10:03 PM
I know So Cal will have it tougher than us; but you guys in Sonora will have to deal with the valley folks and the valley folks will have to deal with the bay area folks.....I wonder how long it will take your Sheriff's dept and Sonora PD to figure out they need to block 108......


Well lets play a simple little game. Next weekend try going from the LA Basin to say anyplace 300 miles from where you are right now and never use anything more than a secondary road. No state highways or freeways. You cannot stop for fuel or supply's.

Whatever mode of transportation you chose you must carry a family of 4 and everything they will need for a month.

You will never get there with everything you need.

There within lies the problem.

Now imagine 10 million people trying to do the same thing.

CessnaDriver
09-03-2012, 10:26 PM
I am a pilot, how much supplies do you think you will carry after getting the family into the cessna? Oh, maybe you have a Caravan. The 182 will still only give a small amount of cargo after loading 4 adults.

Are we just trying to get out of Cali? Or set up a camp for a month on some dirt strip in the middle of nowhere? Depends on the scenario, though I'd expect Arizona to have sanctuary, failng that find fuel and keep flying.

CenterMass90068
09-04-2012, 6:25 AM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/402085_2833958575564_1601084580_n.jpg

Sick... I need one.

OHOD
09-04-2012, 6:35 AM
I plan on bugging in, but it also depends on the SHTF situation.

The only time I would leave the area is if there is risk of radioactive contamination or natural disaster requiring me to leave my home.

With that said, I do have the region mapped out in my little brain in case I have to leave.

1-acre of land in Florida is all set up for bugging out, but at 3200 miles I will have to find a way to get there. Maybe I should just use it as a retirement home as planned.

swilson
09-04-2012, 9:44 AM
Anything short of a fire storm, radiation, or actual war is not going to be enough to make me leave my home, and even so I'd probably stay in the general area under most circumstances. If the situation is bad enough that I have to leave, everyone else is going to have the same idea too and will clog the highways, and turn into angry roving mobs preying upon other motorists when they become desparate. No thanks, I'll stay home instead, board up the windows, clean my guns, eat my canned food, play with the cat and let the problem come to me if it does.

I would only leave if I had to and thought I could get anywhere instead of running into one giant parking lot in all directions, but I'm not leaving to be locked in a FEMA camp somewhere, not under any circumstances. I won't forget what happened at the Superdome.

ElvenSoul
09-04-2012, 9:52 AM
What about your feet? A good backpacker can average 12 to 25 miles a day. Go Ultralight for easier mobility and less stress on your bod. A good pack weight for bugging out rifle, ammo, water, food, gear, and pack should be about 24lbs.

Coded-Dude
09-04-2012, 10:06 AM
I Hope you guys know there are foothill villages ready to blow bridges to keep the coastal/low-landers from overtaking/over-populating the sierras in such a situation.

ElvenSoul
09-04-2012, 10:13 AM
CodedDude I have crossed Consumes and American River wearing Crocs :)
Not to mention countless streams!

Crocs work supprisingly well in the snow as well. Just wrap your feet in alluminum foil and shove them in the sandal. Performs a lot better than most boots.

TimRB
09-04-2012, 1:19 PM
i've loaded almost a full cord of wood and tied it down on top of my cage

Okay, I'm going to call BS on that part. A good load of firewood, unstacked, in my full size pickup is less than half a cord. If I stacked it, and had sideboards, I probably could get a cord in but that would be quite a load.

Tim

Coded-Dude
09-04-2012, 1:24 PM
4'x4'x8'(long) = cord of wood

KevinB
09-04-2012, 1:33 PM
Not to mention a cord of pine firewood weighs 3000 lbs when it is dry. Oak can weigh as much as 5000 lbs green. Is it able to leap tall buildings in a single bound ?

Elvensoul,
I really liked the foil lined Crocs for fording rivers and the snow. Perhaps a adjustment of your foil hat is in order, I think it is too tight.

glockman19
09-04-2012, 2:33 PM
I plan on bugging in, but it also depends on the SHTF situation.

The only time I would leave the area is if there is risk of radioactive contamination or natural disaster requiring me to leave my home.

With that said, I do have the region mapped out in my little brain in case I have to leave.

1-acre of land in Florida is all set up for bugging out, but at 3200 miles I will have to find a way to get there. Maybe I should just use it as a retirement home as planned.

I have a similar plan. reloacation to Vancouver, Victoria Canada.

Maddog5150
09-04-2012, 3:38 PM
Although I hate shtf threads I'll chime in. 4x4 routes. Probably worse. You'll be finding that supposedly secret jeep rated trail locked up by people with 2wheel pick ups or soccer mom SUVs. I used to off-road and some of those trails would be worse to be stuck because of back tracking or lack of room to turn around than a grid locked freeway

POLICESTATE
09-04-2012, 3:40 PM
I gotta checkout the bugout threads....It seems that if SHTF does happen the whole california population is simply gonna move to the mountains..Hope theres alot of deer.

There won't be for long, but there will be a lot of people; the other white meat :drool5:

Dutch3
09-04-2012, 4:42 PM
I Hope you guys know there are foothill villages ready to blow bridges to keep the coastal/low-landers from overtaking/over-populating the sierras in such a situation.

No doubt. Those planning to "head for the hills" should realize they won't be welcome, unless that BOL has been planned long in advance.

Even then, there won't be any guarantees, depending on the severity of the situation. You might own a mountain bunker today, but it will be worthless if you can't get there.

ElvenSoul
09-04-2012, 5:01 PM
Not the only one to have tried Crocs in the snow

http://frogpondsrock.com/2012/08/crocs-in-the-snow/

KevinB
09-04-2012, 6:11 PM
Looks to be purple furry foil to me and the person is hardly going cross country. Loosen the straps on the foil hat.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Cannon-Arms
09-04-2012, 6:50 PM
I Hope you guys know there are foothill villages ready to blow bridges to keep the coastal/low-landers from overtaking/over-populating the sierras in such a situation.

Local blogs have had discussions about this, the mountain comunities east of the 15 frwy.

The 15 @ the Cajon pass and the 14/5 interchange will become murder holes in SoCal.

newbee1111
09-04-2012, 7:41 PM
Zombie drawn chariot is the way to go.

CenterMass90068
09-04-2012, 8:48 PM
I'm buggin' in... just hope the big one doesn't hit while I'm far from home. That would suuuuuuck.......:willy_nilly:

Surf & Turf
09-04-2012, 9:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=PnxlhajOolw&NR=1

yelohamr
09-04-2012, 9:05 PM
There will be gridlock and I have too much ammo to carry. I'll stay put and if need be, shoot up as much ammo as I can.

I_Love_My_.38
09-05-2012, 4:08 AM
Do you guys really think millions of people would head for the hills? Why? I'm not, there's no reason for it. And for those in the hills ready to murder anyone just for walking up hill on a highway how do you justify that? Don't you understand that if you do murder one more will come in vengence??? oh but your in a superior sniper position? so what? no one lasts forever.

Packy14
09-05-2012, 6:28 PM
CodedDude I have crossed Consumes and American River wearing Crocs :)
Not to mention countless streams!

Crocs work supprisingly well in the snow as well. Just wrap your feet in alluminum foil and shove them in the sandal. Performs a lot better than most boots.

hate to burst your bubble, metal and sharp objects slice through crocs like butter, I learned the hard way walking at Angeles in some off road crocs and getting a thorn in my foot through my croc. A good pair of comfortable boots is the way to go.

Cannon-Arms
09-05-2012, 11:49 PM
Do you guys really think millions of people would head for the hills? Why? I'm not, there's no reason for it. And for those in the hills ready to murder anyone just for walking up hill on a highway how do you justify that? Don't you understand that if you do murder one more will come in vengence??? oh but your in a superior sniper position? so what? no one lasts forever.

During a prolonged natural disaster(think major earthquake along the San Andreas fault anywhere from Brawley to SanBerdo. to Palmdale to Frasier Park) many in the L.A./suburbs will not know where to turn after "their" local market runs dry in two to three days. Two main route into the basin to resupply those markets/stores are the 5 freeway and the 15 freeway.

Do I think Millions? No, many thousands ignorant yet good willed looking to go to moms, a friends, sisters etc., sure. Drive the 15 freeway through the Cajon pass on a holiday weekend Friday after 3pm just for a small glimpse of what could be.

As far as the murder holes, of course I couldn't ever put thought into doing such a thing. knowing the kind of rotten nasty peoples that inhabit areas of So.Cal. I will not discount the real possibilities that there are lowlife cretin/gangbangers/criminals who will do such things, for no other reason than they're evil.

And I have planned accordingly for a route back home from my work area.

amd64
09-06-2012, 10:04 AM
Sometimes when I'm stuck in gridlock that frequently happens even outside of rush hours, I wonder how bad gridlock would really get when SHTF and everyone and their grandma has the same ideas of how to get around the gridlock.

If the LA basin gets toasted by an infrastructure destroying event, I can envision miles of gridlocked abandoned cars, and huge hordes of desperate urbanites migrating aimlessly in dirty street clothes fiddling with fancy cell phones that don't work.

Cannon-Arms
09-06-2012, 10:50 AM
People here in L.A. are not prepared like some back east, who have to be mindful of prolonged power outages etc. from hurricanes and such. Heck, those people even have advanced warning to prepare, with a major earthquake, we'll have no warning.

Remember, it took SCE over a week to get power back to Pasadena after windstorms last year. What happens when it's not just one or two cities. They'll be very slow on repairs, very slow.

brix
09-06-2012, 11:18 AM
People here in L.A. are not prepared like some back east, who have to be mindful of prolonged power outages etc. from hurricanes and such. Heck, those people even have advanced warning to prepare, with a major earthquake, we'll have no warning.

Remember, it took SCE over a week to get power back to Pasadena after windstorms last year. What happens when it's not just one or two cities. They'll be very slow on repairs, very slow.

Yep power was out here in this area for 3-4 days and people freaked out without their internet or TVs. They had to have a meeting after the incident to complain that three to four days was way too long. SCE had its work cut out since the streets down were with downed trees and debris. In my experience, in the LA area take them out of their comfort zone and they loose all sense of reason. In contrast to the Loma Prieta earthquake in the Bay Area or 911 in NYC where you saw more sense of a community.

So if history tells you anything, civil unrest and panic are eminent should a SHTF situation happen here in the LA area. I am imagining something a long the lines of a Katrina situation or maybe even worse.

smle-man
12-12-2012, 6:44 PM
Although I hate shtf threads I'll chime in. 4x4 routes. Probably worse. You'll be finding that supposedly secret jeep rated trail locked up by people with 2wheel pick ups or soccer mom SUVs. I used to off-road and some of those trails would be worse to be stuck because of back tracking or lack of room to turn around than a grid locked freeway

All of that is true plus everyone in the southland knows all about them already. There aren't any 'secret' off road trails around here. On the weekends they have as much traffic as some surface streets!

smle-man
12-12-2012, 6:48 PM
[QUOTE=xbguru;9257390]my bug out vehicle

25mpg and extremely capable 100% street legal and no where near the cost of a jeep

but everyone loves to talk trash on my samurai :rolleyes:

I had one for 10 years and it was a lot of fun but I decided a bit more room was more practical so I got the unlimited Rubicon. Big enough that I can sleep in it with the back seat folded down.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/smle-man/IMG_5787c.jpg

Cali-Glock
12-12-2012, 7:49 PM
Guess what, you're not going to get to the mountains. Where I live only two roads up/down, very defensible. During the Rodney King riots, I understand a bunch of "locals" blocked off the main highway for at least a short period of time before the sheriff assured them they had it under control and sent them home.

The biggest challenge mountain residents would face would be re-supply of food/fuel during some crisis involving unrest. We could defend our position but any unescorted (and even then) supply trucks would probably be ambushed below our stronghold. Not too worried about people on foot, most are far too lazy to venture far from the hypnotic TV device anyway. Let alone a 13 mile hike with a 3000'+ elevation change, especially in the winter.

I agree that andom bugout to the mountains is not a good plan!

Re-supply or even initial supply is a pain for us mountain dwellers, a "simple" shopping trip is an "event", but even the sheep up here have a lot more preps and food than 99% of urbanites & suburbanites.

I worry that locals at lower elevations might close roads below where I live; I would expect roads to be close by locals if things got really interesting.

Cali-Glock
12-12-2012, 7:55 PM
I doubt a few mountain dwellers could contain the masses in a true SHTF situation. If we're talking a mass exodus, it's only a matter of time before you're overrun. But good luck with that! :rolleyes:

http://play.esea.net/global/media_preview.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.styleforum. net%2F4%2F4a%2F350x700px-LL-4ad90b08_Not-sure-if-serious2.jpeg