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View Full Version : Rem 870 Police magnum purchase... on hold


Shanghai guy
08-31-2012, 10:50 PM
Was all-set to buy a Remington 870 Police Magnum from a local 01 FFL. Black synthetic stock and Ghost Ring sights by Wilson Combat, tube mag extension, all-factory NIB. It's cherry and I was pretty stoked.

Was.

Today a trusted and respected CalGuns bud of mine told me I really need to think again about this particular configuration. "You should consider how that 870 will look to a jury if you ever have to use it." He said to avoid the tube mag extension, avoid the GR sights, and go with wood furniture.

"The more it looks like a hunting shotgun to a jury, the better" he told me. "The last thing you want in this state is to appear like some sort of far Right Rambo with a tricked-out, high speed shotgun, just itchin' to blow somebody away. A prosecutor will try to make you look that way, even in a totally justified shooting inside your home."

I'm having second thoughts about my purchase now, and wonder if I should listen to my pal. Is he being reasonable? Is he being extreme?

Not sure what to do...

Thoughts, anybody? :confused:

Thanks for any input...

ElDub1950
08-31-2012, 11:03 PM
I think your "trusted and respected CalGuns bud" is exactly right. And the same applies to any handgun for HD or CCW. I just consider how crazy the general public is about those 'evil black rifles'. Same thing with those evil black shotguns with all kinds of special stuff attached to make them more likely to instantly kill everyone in the room and only a blood thirsty degenerate would buy those in the hopes that some day they would get chance to blow someone in half. Unfortunately, here in CA, a lot of jury members are going to think that way. That's my opinion.

jdberger
08-31-2012, 11:26 PM
Meh. Buy what you want.

Full disclosure, I have a Vang Comp custom 870P with wood furniture.

Jeepers
08-31-2012, 11:30 PM
i refuse to be PC'ed .... more we worry about being PC, the more "they" win

elSquid
09-01-2012, 12:22 AM
"The more it looks like a hunting shotgun to a jury, the better" he told me. "The last thing you want in this state is to appear like some sort of far Right Rambo with a tricked-out, high speed shotgun, just itchin' to blow somebody away. A prosecutor will try to make you look that way, even in a totally justified shooting inside your home."


If you wind up in front of a jury, you've probably done something wrong. Despite this being California, you actually do have the right to self defense.

Instead of worrying about how your shotgun looks, you are probably better off spending some time understanding the laws surrounding lethal force.

If you are involved in a clear cut case of self defense, as long as your weapon is legal, it's probably not going to be an issue. The more questionable the scenario, the more likely that you'll wind up in front of a jury. If you shoot a burglar in the back as he's running away with your bluray player, yeah, maybe an evil-looking shotgun might further cement your guilt in the eyes of a jury. But then again, maybe not.

If you clearly acted reasonably, you almost certainly won't be charged/going before a jury, and the appearance of your shotgun won't matter one bit.

Besides, said 870P isn't some tricked out Rambo shotgun. It's a firearm intended to be used as a Police issue shotgun. There is nothing 'wacky' about any of the features on it.

Heck, take the counter argument: if you use a normal wood stocked, vent ribbed 870 are you concerned that the DA might paint you as a psychopath because you chose to use a HUNTING shotgun to HUNT people? If you aren't really a hunter - and can show this in court - using such a shotgun might be an unacceptable legal risk. ;)

Anywho, IANAL. : shrug :

-- Michael

L84CABO
09-01-2012, 12:25 AM
Argh. I'm thinking maybe your trusted bud shouldn't be quite so trusted. We're talking about ghost ring sights and a mag extension...not a rocket launcher. A good lawyer will point out that mag extensions and GR sights are very standard features on defensive shotguns including those used by law enforcement.

The extra capacity from the mag extension may actually save your life and that's well worth whatever risk this might create...which is none in my opinon.

You're lawyer will also point out that there is no functional difference between wood and synthetic furniture. It's purely cosmetic.

Buy the gun. And ask your friend to show you one real case where someone was convicted based on ghost ring sights and a mag extension. :rolleyes:

CK_32
09-01-2012, 12:34 AM
As long as you don't have a full fledged race gun or barbed wire and acid hanging off tour gun don't worry about it.

People are too scared of this jurry thing and some are too laxed.. It's good to consider that.. So just be smart about it and know yours ins and outs.. It don't worry about the jurry and love your life.. A court case is always better than a funeral.. EVERYTIME..

So keep in mind that stuff but defend your self first.. Does no good to be "legal" if your dead. And if you did the right thing you will be fine.

EXTREMEOPS1
09-01-2012, 4:03 AM
I have a Remington 870 police magnum that is my go to home defense weapon its all black with a led light and rifle sights . In the event of using it in the manner expected I doubt I worry that it is all tactical looking after all it is just a "tool" to protect myself and my family..buy whatever you want and shoot it often, practice, practice, practice and have a plan in the event of deploying your weapon and protecting what is valuable to you and yours....the remmy 870p is an awesome weapon enjoy

ldsnet
09-01-2012, 6:55 AM
I shoot 3 gun competition. That configuration would be perfect!

If you have to use the weapon for home defense, the configuration of said weapon won't change the situation.

Buy what you want and enjoy it.

smittty
09-01-2012, 7:11 AM
If I was on the jury I wouldn't hold the color of the gun against you. I don't know who dreamed up the concern for the color of a gun. I don't think it's anything to worry about.

Frankly, if you had a defense shotgun configured like your local LE, it could work in your favour.

adrenaline
09-01-2012, 7:29 AM
I second smitty. However, we are more open minded the I guess the average California Citizen.

I don't like being PC'd as well so I say do what makes you happy with ownership. If you ever need to use it, I hope you are wondering about what you are loaded with (00 buck)...and that being more on your mind than the "jury". Keep your head in the game (stopping the threat) than worry about the jury (the other threat ;) ).

BigDogatPlay
09-01-2012, 9:09 AM
As others have noted, if you are before a criminal jury it's because there is evidence that you were in the wrong.

That you may wind up in front of a civil jury is something that is always a possibility in any use of force, but you should not let that dictate your options or tactics in a defensive situation you may find yourself in.

For the record I keep an 870P ready to defend my home. It carries a plain bead sight, a two shot Scattergun extension, a Speedfeed IV stock and a SureFire fore end. In other words it's set up to give me the best control, and to be able to clearly identify whatever it is that is threatening me if I am forced to fire.

Skidmark
09-01-2012, 10:20 AM
My 870P looks much better with wooden furniture, and blued barrel, than any 870 with synthetic stock
or matte barrel. The two-shell extension looks perfectly stock.

But... it's not there for looks. It has a primary purpose, and I will rely on it for exactly that purpose.

epilepticninja
09-01-2012, 8:16 PM
I want the best configuration that I can to protect my gift of life. How it looks in front of a jury is not a concern to me. Convincing them that I was legally correct to use deadly force is what is a concern to me.

hermosabeach
09-01-2012, 8:26 PM
What ammo do you have in your pistol?
Years ago LEO had Black Tallons- so we carried the same
Now they have Gold Dot, Hydro Shock, Ranger
So a lot of the public uses the same ammo as the police

What shotgun- same as the police
Sights to hit

I have a green 870 with a surefire light. I have been asked 6-7 times if it is a department duty gun???

A clean shoot is a clean shoot- a bad shoot is a bad shoot

I have heard for years about ugly court cases that make home owners and CCW holders out to be evil due to bullet selection

I have never found a supporting court case

Plisk
09-01-2012, 8:50 PM
I agree with the logic track and theory to your friend's advice. But in all honestly, weather you're using a Hello Kitty Pink 870, a Sporting Wingmaster your Great-Grandfather gave to you, or a new Police model shotgun; you're going to get dragged through the coals and mud in court anyway.

Just get the 870 Police.

FUBAR
09-01-2012, 8:51 PM
So your buddy is saying reduce the capacity and limit your sight system? Sound s like a real bad idea. Those 2 extra rounds and the better sight system can mean the difference in saving your life or the life of others. Who cares what the jury thinks if you're dead. Those "evil" features will only improve the way your weapon system functions, increasing your odds of survival. When defending yourself or the life of others the last thing going through your head shouldn't be if your being politically correct.

Chameleon Loco
09-01-2012, 9:03 PM
There is a reason that it is there are over 10,000,000 out there. My first shotgun will be a remington 870 police magnum. I think there is no way that a weapon carried by lapd could look bad if the weapon was used in hd.

Plisk
09-01-2012, 9:31 PM
There is a reason that it is there are over 10,000,000 out there. My first shotgun will be a remington 870 police magnum. I think there is no way that a weapon carried by lapd could look bad if the weapon was used in hd.

You would be very surprised.

Bobby Ricigliano
09-01-2012, 9:51 PM
My thought is that this advice is pure FUD.

A bad shooting with a 28" Wingmaster is a bad shooting.

A clean, legal self defense shooting with <Insert name of any legally owned firearm here> is going to be clean, legal self defense shooting.

M1A Rifleman
09-02-2012, 7:47 AM
Your bud is right, use only single shot or black powder muzzle loaders for self defense, and own nothing else to be safe. Now where is this Remington located so I have have a look at it........:rolleyes:

kentactic
09-02-2012, 10:22 AM
If your friends worried about how his gun looks to a jury as hes about to die if he dosent move his butt then he'll probably never use the shotgun if he needed to in the first place. Make the TOOL as useful as possible at staying alive. Sitting in a court room as a lawer holds up your scary shotgun you murdered that poor intruder with is a great problem to have when you consider the other option... Being dead...

ysr_racer
09-02-2012, 10:44 AM
Wow, lots of "free" legal advice here.

You know what they say about "free" stuff.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
09-02-2012, 11:07 AM
Having sat in courtooms here in CA for a number of years, I can say with confidence that the color of your shotgun's furniture and the accessories on it will be the least of your worries should you ever have to use it against an intruder. Everything about the shoot will be used against you by a DA in a criminal trial, and the intruder's attorney in a civil trial. The best reduction of liability IMO (my opinion free and worth what it costs) is to make sure that you can articulate the factors that lead you to believe that you or another person were in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm or injury, combined with good judgement based on those factors. The configuration of your weapon pales in significance against that.

Shanghai guy
09-02-2012, 1:56 PM
What does "FUD" mean?

Skidmark
09-02-2012, 2:19 PM
What does "FUD" mean?

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

What one camp throws out to induce hesitation in the other.