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gesundheit
08-29-2012, 9:12 PM
So Botach has this tempting deal going on for TLR-2s

http://www.botachtactical.com/stgltalipade.html

I perused through a few threads but failed to find a compelling reason why laser would be useful. Found one guy complaining on the Internet that lasers are hard to zero to (whatever that means).

Would TLR-2s a good option for a full size pistol?

scglock
08-29-2012, 9:18 PM
I don't think that's much of a deal

Grumpyoldretiredcop
08-29-2012, 9:23 PM
I and another rangemaster tested Crimson Trace Lasergrips for our agency. We came to the conclusion that if you only worked at night or inside a building, they're great. Out in the bright sunshine on a suspect with dark clothing (or the black bull of a target, for that matter), not so much. I know a number of deputies/officers who work evening or night shifts who consider them a very useful tool... to give a suspect an unmistakable indication that the officer's weapon is pointed at them.

What many people also forget (or ignore) is that laser sights are just like any other sights in this respect: They can be zeroed for a particular range. They aren't magic sights that will be on at all ranges. The TLR you're considering is pretty simple to zero. They don't have click detents for adjustment, which could have lead to the "hard to zero" complaint that you read.

If this is a range toy, by all means go ahead and give it a try. The TLR-2s is a quality piece of gear and should work fine on a full size pistol.

P.S. - Friends don't let friends shop at Botach.

Bug Splat
08-29-2012, 9:25 PM
They don't help, just hinder you from learning how to shoot. If they help at all don't you think the pros would be using them? They don't and for good reason they slow you down.

MA2
08-29-2012, 9:26 PM
So you can shoot sideways (http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=610392) :p

Really, I do like lasers on HD weapons.
It keeps your focus on the subject, instead of on the sight to the subject.
Better to have it, than not to have it.

Zero is pretty easy (just like any scopes I guess)...zero is just adjusting the laser and point of impact to match, at your specified distance.

AE102
08-29-2012, 9:28 PM
The flashlight, now, that's useful.

OldShooter32
08-29-2012, 9:44 PM
As a LEO/K9 handler who worked nights and searched a lot of dark places, the laser was great -- another level of force/intimidation. You also don't need to be behind the sights; you can shoot it from any position. I used it many times in felony stops and once in an actual shooting...worked great.

Sam
08-29-2012, 11:56 PM
They don't help, just hinder you from learning how to shoot. If they help at all don't you think the pros would be using them? They don't and for good reason they slow you down.

Check this out. There is a professional instructor who does like lasers and shows that they do enhance an aspect of a shooter's performance. I'd say that if you do go with a laser you should realize they may stop working when you need them to work. Use them if you wish don't forget how to use your iron sights.

http://pistol-training.com/?s=Laser

P5Ret
08-30-2012, 12:18 AM
P.S. - Friends don't let friends shop at Botach.
^ Very true.

Lasers serve a useful purpose in low light situations, and for some situations where you may not be able to get a proper sight picture. They are probably much more useful to le and the military then the rest of us. I've gotten more use out to a light alone than I would have a light laser combo.

NSR500
08-30-2012, 12:24 AM
Lasers are not a substitute for proper fundamentals, but are great for improvised shooting positions, and low light conditions.

Bugguts
08-30-2012, 12:55 AM
I and another rangemaster tested Crimson Trace Lasergrips for our agency. We came to the conclusion that if you only worked at night or inside a building, they're great. Out in the bright sunshine on a suspect with dark clothing (or the black bull of a target, for that matter), not so much. I know a number of deputies/officers who work evening or night shifts who consider them a very useful tool... to give a suspect an unmistakable indication that the officer's weapon is pointed at them.

What many people also forget (or ignore) is that laser sights are just like any other sights in this respect: They can be zeroed for a particular range. They aren't magic sights that will be on at all ranges. The TLR you're considering is pretty simple to zero. They don't have click detents for adjustment, which could have lead to the "hard to zero" complaint that you read.

If this is a range toy, by all means go ahead and give it a try. The TLR-2s is a quality piece of gear and should work fine on a full size pistol.

P.S. - Friends don't let friends shop at Botach.

They are in the movies! No squiggly wiggly or anything like I see at the range so either the shooters in the lane next to me are doing it wrong(I can see the little dot wiggling all over the place) or Hollywood is making it up. Can't be that can it? :43:

drifter2be
08-30-2012, 12:58 AM
To me a laser on a pistol is like a red dot on a rifle. Meant for fast target acquisition, not precision shooting. The only guns I like lasers on are guns meant specifically for concealed carry like the Ruger LCP which has practically unusable sights. Granted you aren't going to be wasting time aligning the sights perfectly in a defensive situation its nice to know that if the dots on the target its going to be hitting close to there. Imagine unholstering a gun from concealment at your hip, with a laser like a crimson trace you can put the laser on the target as you are bringing the gun up and can fire sooner, increasing your chance of survival by being able to get the first shot off.

Of course there are plenty of guys here that don't actually carry that will spout off about how they could put one right between the eyes of an assailant with just the factory sights in a high-stress/self defense type of situation.

drifter2be
08-30-2012, 1:01 AM
They are in the movies! No squiggly wiggly or anything like I see at the range so either the shooters in the lane next to me are doing it wrong(I can see the little dot wiggling all over the place) or Hollywood is making it up. Can't be that can it? :43:

Some people just truly suck at holding a weapon steady.:D Not the laser's fault.

InGrAM
08-30-2012, 1:05 AM
Application: Carry guns. The only time I would ever think about a laser on a firearm.

Lasers are great for older people that have bad eyes.

If you are proficient enough and have decent eyes you don't need lasers. I would however suggest a laser for a female CCer or someone that is not planning on being or is not a gun nut.

ExtremeX
08-30-2012, 1:13 AM
Lasers are not a substitute for proper fundamentals, but are great for improvised shooting positions, and low light conditions.

^^ This

True story: I went to the range with a buddy who bought the same handgun as me. He was a new shooter, and had a terrible time getting rounds on target. He made a comment about getting a laser to help him shoot better. I handed him my weapon, and his groups did not improve. Not a single shot landed where the laser was pointed. Needless to say, nothing is a replacement for solid shooting fundamentals.

With that said... I run a Viridian laser/light combo on my HD weapon.

I prefer not to use it, I don’t practice with the laser on, but I keep it attached because it does change the recoil impose of the weapon.

I think there are advantages to having one... I wear corrective lenses, if I dont have or cant get to my glasses, and I can use it as an optional aid should I need to.

Bugguts
08-30-2012, 1:15 AM
Application: Carry guns. The only time I would ever think about a laser on a firearm.

Lasers are great for older people that have bad eyes.

If you are proficient enough and have decent eyes you don't need lasers. I would however suggest a laser for a female CCer or someone that is not planning on being or is not a gun nut.

Why? If the person(man or woman) is proficient enough and has decent eyes, what would it matter if it were a woman CCW'er or a person not planning on being a gun nut? :confused:

InGrAM
08-30-2012, 1:31 AM
Why? If the person(man or woman) is proficient enough and has decent eyes, what would it matter if it were a woman CCW'er or a person not planning on being a gun nut? :confused:

I should have edited that and changed it to "inexperienced" CCers.

But the fact that a lot of CCers are not proficient with their firearms is a example of why lasers are a very useful device. It is a lot easier to squeeze a grip or push a button and aim with a laser than aligning sights. Which is a great thing for inexperienced shooters and people that don't plan on shooting as much as others.

Not every CCer is extremely experienced with firearms and I don't expect them to be.

Bugguts
08-30-2012, 1:44 AM
I should have edited that and changed it to "inexperienced" CCers.

But the fact that a lot of CCers are not proficient with their firearms is a example of why lasers are a very useful device. It is a lot easier to squeeze a grip or push a button and aim with a laser than aligning sights. Which is a great thing for inexperienced shooters and people that don't plan on shooting as much as others.

Not every CCer is extremely experienced with firearms and I don't expect them to be.

Understood, thank you for clarifying that. When I took my CCW targets/test after Livescan, there were others at the range doing the same thing and one of our instructions was to field strip our firearm. I was surprised that two people had no idea what that meant. I guess I figured that if you were going to get a firearm and go through the process of getting a CCW, then I figured you would want to be as familiar with that firearm as possible thereby being able to use it as intended but one of the people did say "It's a gun, how hard can it be to hit something 1oyds away?" Apparently pretty hard for him as he did not pass the target test and it turned out that he had bought the gun, put it in his house but never actually shot it but wanted to CC "just in case". In case of what? If you can't use it, then it is not useful. :confused:

InGrAM
08-30-2012, 1:48 AM
Understood, thank you for clarifying that. When I took my CCW targets/test after Livescan, there were others at the range doing the same thing and one of our instructions was to field strip our firearm. I was surprised that two people had no idea what that meant. I guess I figured that if you were going to get a firearm and go through the process of getting a CCW, then I figured you would want to be as familiar with that firearm as possible thereby being able to use it as intended but one of the people did say "It's a gun, how hard can it be to hit something 1oyds away?" Apparently pretty hard for him as he did not pass the target test and it turned out that he had bought the gun, put it in his house but never actually shot it but wanted to CC "just in case". In case of what? If you can't use it, then it is not useful. :confused:

Exactly, I would hope the people CCing would try and become proficient with their CC firearms but people are people. I think that lasers are great for people like that. It does promote laziness but they are not going to put in the time anyways so why not give them a little advantage to help them if they should ever need it.

Distro
08-30-2012, 4:06 AM
As a LEO/K9 handler who worked nights and searched a lot of dark places, the laser was great -- another level of force/intimidation. You also don't need to be behind the sights; you can shoot it from any position. I used it many times in felony stops and once in an actual shooting...worked great.

I don't believe you. The guy a few posts up said professionals never use them, so you are lying.

Agent Orange
08-30-2012, 5:46 AM
Speaking of wiggling dots the laser can help a lot in learning trigger control and holding the gun steady during dry firing.

CK_32
08-30-2012, 6:08 AM
None IMO

pipboy
08-30-2012, 7:34 AM
I feel a laser can be very beneficial if used properly under certain specified conditions. Such conditions a laser may help include low light, or anytime one is not able to obtain a proper sight picture with irons. Examples may be shooting from retention, improvised positions, or maximizing use of cover.

I agree that the majority of the time, a trained shooter probably wont need one, but they are not useless and can be a valuable tool in some circumstances.

The problem with lasers is not in their inherent function, but the attitudes some people have towards them. If you look at it as a crutch to make up for lack of skill and training, then there is a problem and a laser will not benefit you if you lack shooting fundamentals anyway. Conversely, if you look at it as something that is useless, you'll never use one, and "it's only for people who cant shoot" instead of looking at how and if its application can benefit you, well then it won't.

Point being there are specific circumstances where they can supplement skill and improve on liability and survivability, but they are not magical devices that will make an unskilled shooter into a skilled one. Nothing replaces practice and experience.

MossbergMan
08-30-2012, 8:20 AM
I feel a laser can be very beneficial if used properly under certain specified conditions. Such conditions a laser may help include low light, or anytime one is not able to obtain a proper sight picture with irons. Examples may be shooting from retention, improvised positions, or maximizing use of cover.I agree that the majority of the time, a trained shooter probably wont need one, but they are not useless and can be a valuable tool in some circumstances.

The problem with lasers is not in their inherent function, but the attitudes some people have towards them. If you look at it as a crutch to make up for lack of skill and training, then there is a problem and a laser will not benefit you if you lack shooting fundamentals anyway. Conversely, if you look at it as something that is useless, you'll never use one, and "it's only for people who cant shoot" instead of looking at how and if its application can benefit you, well then it won't.

Point being there are specific circumstances where they can supplement skill and improve on liability and survivability, but they are not magical devices that will make an unskilled shooter into a skilled one. Nothing replaces practice and experience.

I was a laser hater for years, but with better units on the market now I support their use.
"J" frames, LCR and LCP come to mind for laser applications.
I use a rail mounted laser to assist new shooters understand proper trigger control. It's amazing how fast they improve once they can keep the dot on target while dry pressing the trigger. By watching the dot they can focus entirely on trigger control without sight alignment issues. Once they get the trigger control down....I ween them off the laser and now they can look at the sights and manipulate the trigger like they did with the laser on.

Baconator
08-30-2012, 8:39 AM
Come on, haven't you seen Lethal Weapon 4?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

21SF
08-30-2012, 8:43 AM
Flashing incoming aircraft?

Looking like solid snake?

gesundheit
08-30-2012, 9:25 AM
Speaking of wiggling dots the laser can help a lot in learning trigger control and holding the gun steady during dry firing.

I feel a laser can be very beneficial if used properly under certain specified conditions. Such conditions a laser may help include low light, or anytime one is not able to obtain a proper sight picture with irons. Examples may be shooting from retention, improvised positions, or maximizing use of cover.

I agree that the majority of the time, a trained shooter probably wont need one, but they are not useless and can be a valuable tool in some circumstances.

The problem with lasers is not in their inherent function, but the attitudes some people have towards them. If you look at it as a crutch to make up for lack of skill and training, then there is a problem and a laser will not benefit you if you lack shooting fundamentals anyway. Conversely, if you look at it as something that is useless, you'll never use one, and "it's only for people who cant shoot" instead of looking at how and if its application can benefit you, well then it won't.

Point being there are specific circumstances where they can supplement skill and improve on liability and survivability, but they are not magical devices that will make an unskilled shooter into a skilled one. Nothing replaces practice and experience.

I also had laser as a training tool in mind. For example, knowing that the gun is unsteady in practicing many a movement drills that will come in handy for HD.

ROCKETW19
08-30-2012, 9:34 AM
Would a laser be good for someone who does not go to range as much! my wife only shoots once in a while and gun will be night stand gun. think it would help or make things worse?
if they help anything like red dots everyone should have one. I shhot slugs there my shot gun and I hooked up Eotech to it and wow, I can pick up target way faster and slap a slug in your eye ball no problem.

A-J
08-30-2012, 9:55 AM
I could see it if you're shooting from a position where you can't see down the sights but could still get your weapon pointed at the BG. THere's also the intimidation factor. For my HD gun I went with a light. IMO it's more useful in identfiying a target. A laser won't tell you if the "BG" in your house at night is not actually a family member. Again, this is my opinion, YMMV.

Lead Waster
08-30-2012, 10:03 AM
Well, it would be more useful if, instead of the trigger of the gun shooting a bullet, it activated the "kill mode" of the laser and you just vaporized the guy with it! :p

Bug Splat
08-30-2012, 10:09 AM
I don't believe you. The guy a few posts up said professionals never use them, so you are lying.

Not to disrespect my LEO buddies but some of the worst shooters I have ever seen were LEO's. I hardly consider officers "professional shooters". I shoot 10,000X more rounds a year then most LEO's.

My reasoning for disliking lasers (aside from my own testing) comes from a former FBI instructor who was the first tasked with testing laser sights to see if they would be beneficial to their agents. After months of testing it proved to be slower then good training. No one stops in an attack to find the red dot on their target. If you tried you are already too slow. Drawing your weapon should be instinct and muscle memory. If you can't draw your weapon with your eyes closed and have the sights line up on their own you need more training. As for using a laser as an intimidation tool, aside from LEO's doing this, no one who CCW's should be drawing without shooting. If you pull your gun you better 100% committed to firing a few shot center mass. There is no "freeze, put up your hands" in the real world. I stand by my first statement about lasers, they are a crutch for people who don't want to spend the time to really train.

gesundheit
08-30-2012, 10:13 AM
I stand by my first statement about lasers, they are a crutch for people who don't want to spend the time to really train.

What if that laser is used as a teaching aid as mentioned by pipboy and Mossbergman above?

MisplacedTexan
08-30-2012, 10:20 AM
For *me*, I have one attached to my HD gun, and leave it there, but seldom turn it on. Practice w/o it on @ the range. Reason it's there is as others have mentioned, if I ever need it at night, it's there & I don't have the glow in the dark sights like others might.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
08-30-2012, 10:31 AM
The use of the laser as a training tool is interesting. Consider having two targets, one a specific distance below the other, the lower target being well out of the student's line of sight. Zero the laser so that if the student aims correctly at the upper target, the laser will register in the center of the lower target. By watching the laser dot's position and movement during firing, the instructor could gather valuable information. Might be fun to try.

And Distro, don't forget that even professionals have differences in opinion. I might put a fair amount of weight behind someone who's used one in an actual shooting, even if I personally don't find lasers particularly useful other than in felony stops.

Bug Splat
08-30-2012, 10:32 AM
What if that laser is used as a teaching aid as mentioned by pipboy and Mossbergman above?

I tried using a laser on my first pistol and found it to be the most frustrating thing in the world. Dot moves all around and is very distracting. My shots were spaced farther apart and no more accurate then I was using irons. Also with the laser riding below the pistol you are forced to lower the pistol just to see the red dot on your target. This teaches you improper alignment from the get-go. Learning to shoot with irons proved WAY more effective.

Practicing at home is very easy. Keep your eyes closed, draw your EMPTY pistol and bring it up to your eye level and open your eyes to check its alignment. Do this 1 million times. In time you will be able to bring the pistol perfectly inline every time no matter where you are looking. It becomes second nature and very fast.

l_Z_l
08-30-2012, 10:43 AM
I also had laser as a training tool in mind. For example, knowing that the gun is unsteady in practicing many a movement drills that will come in handy for HD.

This is how I used the laser to fix my jerking of the trigger. Hours of dry fire excecise to stop jerking the trigger and hold my gun steady while changing targets. Hold the dot steady while dry firing double action two points on the wall. It's improved my grouping by alot, but I still need more practice.

Patrick Aherne
08-30-2012, 10:51 AM
Lasers are useful for K9 cops (imagine holding a suspect at gunpoint, pistol in right hand, on the side of a hill, holding leash in left hand while your 82 pound partner is barking and straining to eat the nice badman), the guy holding the shield, and j-frame backup guns.

JTROKS
08-30-2012, 10:55 AM
C2wwixc7O48

I personally have a laser and night sights on my G23. I like it, but I would prefer a pressure activated switch instead of a push on and off that might be a disadvantage in certain scenarios.

bergmen
08-30-2012, 11:09 AM
My wife and I both carry .38 snubbies as LTC weapons (S&W 642 and 442 respectively). We also practice regularly.

My wife has a bad habit of "punching" to counteract recoil and missing the target altogether. She wasn't sure she was doing that (sometimes difficult to know as a novice shooter) but I could see it.

We bought a pair of Ruger LCR's with lazers for home defensive use and the lasers were excellent in showing trigger release issues. My wife was able to immediately see what she was doing wrong and was able to correct her bad habits.

She is now a heck of a shot with either the LCR or 642 at common defense ranges (7 yards).

Problem solved.

We also find the laser to be excellent for our home defensive situation (tight quarters, low light). The problem comes when we try the normal Weaver stance with open sight alignment and have the laser competing for our attention. The laser is best used (for us) in an off-alignment stance, the gun held below the line of sight so we ONLY use the laser to sight the gun and not the open sights.

Dan

Striker
08-30-2012, 11:28 AM
I and another rangemaster tested Crimson Trace Lasergrips for our agency. We came to the conclusion that if you only worked at night or inside a building, they're great. Out in the bright sunshine on a suspect with dark clothing (or the black bull of a target, for that matter), not so much. I know a number of deputies/officers who work evening or night shifts who consider them a very useful tool... to give a suspect an unmistakable indication that the officer's weapon is pointed at them.

What many people also forget (or ignore) is that laser sights are just like any other sights in this respect: They can be zeroed for a particular range. They aren't magic sights that will be on at all ranges. The TLR you're considering is pretty simple to zero. They don't have click detents for adjustment, which could have lead to the "hard to zero" complaint that you read.

If this is a range toy, by all means go ahead and give it a try. The TLR-2s is a quality piece of gear and should work fine on a full size pistol.

P.S. - Friends don't let friends shop at Botach.

Yep, what this gentleman said. Like everything, it's a tool in a tool box. There are situations that it's exceptional for and situations where it's useless. Use it as such, not as a replacement for your night sights.

Malmon
08-30-2012, 3:02 PM
The initial info on that book "No Easy Day", penned by one of the Navy Seals who was involved in the Bin Laden raid, stated that they use lasers on their rifles. This could be useful if you are on the move and therefore cannot be constantly aiming with your sights. They were able to shoot Bin laden in the head when he pops his head out while the seals are heading up the stair case.

That youtube video by Todd Jarrett convey the same scenario when lasers would be useful.

jvpark
08-31-2012, 12:16 AM
to scare the crap out of assailant.

Fishslayer
08-31-2012, 12:27 PM
What is laser useful for on handguns?


Well.... some people use it as an aiming device but if that's too hard to figure out I guess you could tease cats with it.:D

Not my cats though. They couldn't care less.

Seriously though... they are the schizzle in low light if you have old eyes.

mif_slim
08-31-2012, 1:19 PM
Good for behind cover and while you are looking at Bg from a different angle, you can take the shot from another angle..

meaty-btz
08-31-2012, 1:24 PM
Off angle aiming device and also they allow "target focus". Natural instinct, wisely, is set to focus on the threat/target, not the weapons sights. The idea is to work with natural instinct rather than try to train a work around. A laser is a target focused aiming device where your eyes are focused on the threat, not your front sights.

Sakiri
08-31-2012, 1:44 PM
Application: Carry guns. The only time I would ever think about a laser on a firearm.

Lasers are great for older people that have bad eyes.

If you are proficient enough and have decent eyes you don't need lasers. I would however suggest a laser for a female CCer or someone that is not planning on being or is not a gun nut.

My eyes aren't the greatest personally and I could see a laser helping with learning to line the sights up better and fixing the wiggle problem.

Need to learn point shooting too at some point. All in time. ^.^

CSACANNONEER
08-31-2012, 1:53 PM
Lasers on firearms are great for letting everyone at the range know that you're a mall ninja. They are also fun for the cat to play with and for pointing at low flying police helicopters.

Sakiri
08-31-2012, 2:15 PM
Lasers on firearms are great for letting everyone at the range know that you're a mall ninja. They are also fun for the cat to play with and for pointing at low flying police helicopters.

NEEEEENJA!!!

henmar77
08-31-2012, 2:25 PM
Nothing, except to keep you from learning how to shoot a gun.

Grayblue
08-31-2012, 2:43 PM
The initial info on that book "No Easy Day", penned by one of the Navy Seals who was involved in the Bin Laden raid, stated that they use lasers on their rifles. This could be useful if you are on the move and therefore cannot be constantly aiming with your sights. They were able to shoot Bin laden in the head when he pops his head out while the seals are heading up the stair case.

That youtube video by Todd Jarrett convey the same scenario when lasers would be useful.
Those are likely IR lasers. The reason why it is used is to fight with night vision.

The reason why those are used is not because laser is better at moving and shooting.

L84CABO
09-01-2012, 1:08 AM
Lasers are just another option. Having options is good. They're not a replacement for learning and practicing with iron sights. They are not the end all be all. Again, they're another option.

Some pluses:

When you use iron sights your point of focus is on your front sight post which renders your target blury. A laser allows you to keep your eyes on the target and the target in focus which can be beneficial

There are situations where a laser will enable you to remain more concealed than iron sights would

They can be a wonderful tool for improving trigger control as they give you visual feedback of what your muzzle is doing when you pull the trigger. Try dry fire practice with the laser while working to keep the laser/muzzle as steady as possible

Some law enforcement folks have stated that the laser can help deescalate a situation.

They're fun. Nothing wrong with a little fun now and then.

But again, not the end all be all and you still need to learn and practice with your irons. YMMV

huckberry668
09-01-2012, 9:20 AM
Laser are great pistol sights in the dark. If you don't think it helps try shooting your pistol with black sights in the dark. It doesn't matter if it's tritium night sights or white outline/dots. You won't see them well enough to aim and shoot fast and accurate compare to laser.

You still have to have the fundamentals down when shooting laser tho. I see mall ninjas can't shoot worth a crap with lasers because they can't shoot worth a crap with anything to begin with. I could see the laser dot go off the target before their shots break.

Laser helps a lot in a defensive situation when it's darker, your target is moving fast, you need to keep your eye on the target. Another good thing about laser is that you don't need to hold the gun up to eye level.

As with iron, fiber, scope or red-dot sights, you still need to practice with laser and the transition from iron to laser to be proficient with it. It's a different way of shooting. like shot gun, you're pointing and not aiming. Your focus is on the laser dot (target) instead of the front sight.

james758
09-01-2012, 9:57 AM
I have a laser which I used to improve my trigger control.

As mentioned by others in this post...Someone once told me to take it to the range and check my gun unloaded, and turn on the laser and dry fire with the laser pointed at something. If your laser dips while you pull the trigger, your trigger control need improvement. You get a LOT of feedback from using the laser in that way without burning a lot of ammo. I have let about half a dozen people borrow my laser for that purpose and it helps everyone.
Every once in a while I do put it on the 22 or the 9mm and let the girl friend play with it that way, and its fun, but I just cannot wrap my brain around pulling the trigger without looking down my sights.

Good luck, and may the force be with you.

bigdawg86
09-01-2012, 10:18 AM
I got a Viridian C5L for my HD weapon (XD 9mm) for two reasons...
1.) I have 20/400 vision and I may not have time to get my glasses on in a HD situation and the laser gives me better point and shoot accuracy in this situation.
2.) Mix in a pitch black house plus poor vision and not having the time to put on my glasses...then the combo flashlight allows me to actually see what I am pointing my weapon at.

That is why I got my light/laser.