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adampolo13
08-29-2012, 7:54 PM
I've heard a bunch of conflicting information and I need to find out what the Best LEGAL way to carry my handgun without obtaining a CCW.

Here's what I want to do but want to make sure it is legal.
Keep Unloaded S&W M&P 9mm in a Neoprene case, locked with a small pad lock. I want to keep that in my briefcase etc.

Here's where I get confused. Can I keep a loaded magazine in the briefcase? I've been told a loaded magazine without a CCW is illegal.

So, what's the deal? Loaded mag or no? What should I do?

Thanks for the help!

Adam

ElDub1950
08-29-2012, 8:01 PM
I don't think the mag matters. The key, as I understand it is that you can carry it like that, to or from a range and if you're driving to the range it can't be within your reach. Carrying it to work in the way you describe, I don't think would cut it .. I'm sure the legal eagles will weight in, but that's my opinion.

adampolo13
08-29-2012, 8:04 PM
Thank you for helping out. I am pretty good on traveling to and from the range. Locked in my truck unloaded. I want to know how to carry it as I go about my day, to and from work etc.

Thanks again,

Adam

BigDogatPlay
08-29-2012, 8:06 PM
Might want to cross post this in the carry forum...... but Locked, Unloaded, Concealed Carry (LUCC) is pretty much the only legal way without a license to carry in California unless you are in one of the exempted places where carry would be permissible without a license.

The mag can have ammo in it and carried in the same locked container as the firearm (People v.Clark), but that loaded mag cannot be inserted into the firearm, nor can a round be in the firing chamber.

ElDub1950
08-29-2012, 8:18 PM
The magazines can be loaded as long as they are not in the mag well.
The grey area seems to be whether the magazines need to be in a locked container, or only the gun. The statements are not clear but my take is that mags don't matter.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting#NOT_in_a_vehicle

The confusing part is "...and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

I've never found what 'authorized locations' or 'reasonably necessary' means.

MossbergMan
08-29-2012, 8:24 PM
Adam, check out Titan Gun Vaults. You can take your unloaded gun in a locked container and with the optional magazine attachment carries a loaded magazine in an attached yet separate container. With the different mounting plates you can secure your gun in your truck, home and/or business all with the same locked container.

troysland
08-29-2012, 8:33 PM
Uncle Mikes IWB holster, when being judged by 12 is more important than being carried by 6!!!

INFAMOUS762X39
08-29-2012, 8:41 PM
Uncle Mikes IWB holster, when being judged by 12 is more important than being carried by 6!!!

:patriot: I salute you.

Eldraque
08-30-2012, 2:50 AM
Get a CCW

johnny1290
08-30-2012, 4:06 AM
Just my 2 cents.

I'd get a nanovault I think it's called, with a thumbwheel combination on it.

Even then, my thought is it would be hard to avoid being taken downtown should LE discover it. Sort of a haul him in, let the DA sort it out kinda thing. Just a *guess* though.

I think the mags are fine loaded. I'm sure you'll get more expert advice than mine.

rromeo
08-30-2012, 4:38 AM
Conflicting information about magazines is probably from the UOC laws. If you were open carrying, but had a loaded magazine in your pocket, that was considered as concealed due to the magazine being an essential part of the gun. If you're LUCC, where you carry the magazine shouldn't be an issue.

littlejake
08-30-2012, 7:16 AM
Get a CCW

that's not possible in some areas of California -- like LA county.

And Shall issue under the existing DOJ application process is an unreasonable burden on the applicant.

We shall have Constitutional Carry... and f*** the Demorats.

zfields
08-30-2012, 7:29 AM
Uncle Mikes IWB holster, when being judged by 12 is more important than being carried by 6!!!

:patriot: I salute you.

I don't support you giving advise that is illegal on a public forum.

Oceanbob
08-30-2012, 7:38 AM
I don't support you giving advise that is illegal on a public forum.

this^^^^

Let's not encourage the OP to break any laws and possibly get into serious trouble.

Just carry unloaded in a locked container and everything will be good.

SilverTauron
08-30-2012, 7:51 AM
Here's a suggestion guaranteed to put me on a record number of ignore lists on here.

Leave the piece at home.

The law is written the way it is for a reason;the authorities DO NOT WANT YOU CARRYING A WEAPON.

Is it legal? Perhaps. But if a friend, co-worker, associate, or acquaintance discover you are carrying a pistol sans permit don't be surprised if an arrest is forthcoming.A LEO who responds to a call regarding a man with a (cased)gun isn't going to accept that its being harmlessly transported to the range. Instead they'll see it for what it is-an attempt at circumventing the law.It costs the police and DA nothing to toss a meritless case of illegal concealed carry on the OP, while it will cost the OP his weapon and a lot of money in attorney fees to defend against the charge.

All that hassle, for what? If the flag flies there won't even be time to blink, much less unlock a case, load the weapon, and get it on target. The Tueller drill establishes that even if you have a loaded and holstered weapon, your odds of shooting an attacker with a knife at 20 feet are 50/50. All a cased weapon does is give the attacker another weapon , because the OP assuredly won't have time to deploy it before the bad guy riddles them full of holes. In the condition LUCC is, a firearm is useless for self defense;either way if a bad guy makes a move the OP is cooked.

If one is to risk legal reprisal for carrying a weapon, it stands to reason that the gun should at least be useful in that role. LUCC , to me, is a proposition with a lot of risk and no reward.

littlejake
08-30-2012, 8:08 AM
Here's a suggestion guaranteed to put me on a record number of ignore lists on here.

Leave the piece at home.

The law is written the way it is for a reason;the authorities DO NOT WANT YOU CARRYING A WEAPON.

Is it legal? Perhaps. But if a friend, co-worker, associate, or acquaintance discover you are carrying a pistol sans permit don't be surprised if an arrest is forthcoming.A LEO who responds to a call regarding a man with a (cased)gun isn't going to accept that its being harmlessly transported to the range. Instead they'll see it for what it is-an attempt at circumventing the law.It costs the police and DA nothing to toss a meritless case of illegal concealed carry on the OP, while it will cost the OP his weapon and a lot of money in attorney fees to defend against the charge.

All that hassle, for what? If the flag flies there won't even be time to blink, much less unlock a case, load the weapon, and get it on target. The Tueller drill establishes that even if you have a loaded and holstered weapon, your odds of shooting an attacker with a knife at 20 feet are 50/50. All a cased weapon does is give the attacker another weapon , because the OP assuredly won't have time to deploy it before the bad guy riddles them full of holes. In the condition LUCC is, a firearm is useless for self defense;either way if a bad guy makes a move the OP is cooked.

If one is to risk legal reprisal for carrying a weapon, it stands to reason that the gun should at least be useful in that role. LUCC , to me, is a proposition with a lot of risk and no reward.

Doesn't make my ignore list.... I agree a locked up, unloaded gun is about as useful as a brick.

And the IWB illegal carry isn't the answer either. We must make big changes in Sacramento.

adampolo13
08-30-2012, 9:16 AM
Thank you all for your opinions. But, I am less concerned with oppinions on why I should or shouldn't carry. I am concerned with how to do it legally. To the point, get a CCW, I would if I could, but it is not available to me. The Ventura County Sherrif has shown not to give CCW's out...

A-J
08-30-2012, 9:26 AM
I agree that carrying it in the manner the OP suggets is useless in achieveing the intended purpose (defense). There is also a big question on whether it's even legal if you're not on your way to shoot. The way I read the law, you can't CCW (loaded or unloaded is not relevant IMO) without a permit. Again, that's MY read on the law. I'd suggest reading the Wiki that CGF maintains and then drawing your own conclusions. Different people read can and do interpret things differently, even when reading the exact same source material. If your level of concern is that high, carry a bat. At least they're legal. For now.

adampolo13
08-30-2012, 9:29 AM
Again, not concerned with opinions as to why I should or shouldn't carry. Just want to know how to carry legally (when not traveling to and from the range)

DRAB_81
08-30-2012, 9:47 AM
Again, not concerned with opinions as to why I should or shouldn't carry. Just want to know how to carry legally (when not traveling to and from the range)

Carrying a locked unloaded pistol in that context is not legal.

adampolo13
08-30-2012, 9:49 AM
Carrying a locked unloaded pistol in that context is not legal.

If this is true, the only way I can legally carry is with a CCW?

odslim
08-30-2012, 9:58 AM
Question for you Adam... if you dont mind, whats the main reason or purpose you want to carry a firearm with you in your briefcase thats cased, locked with or without loaded mags? All these very logical posts that seem to lead to the same path is true no matter how you want to word it. If you feel the need for extra protection, do what I do and carry a legal sized pocket knife, like a inexpensive s&w, spyderco, buck whatever and either keep it on your waist belt or in you pocket with the clip shown, it basically needs to be shown as I have been told by many LE in different counties.

Other than that, I think you'll be breaking law without a ccw permit and is a very very expensive gamble. Like others have said, its basically useless by the time you open your briefcase, unlock your case, load the firearm, the threat has already happened. Your probably better off swinging the **** outta that brief case and beat your attacker that way..just saying. However which way you choose Adam, good luck to you.

Lead Waster
08-30-2012, 10:00 AM
What is you were travelling somewhere and wanted the pistol at the hotel (is that even legal?). So say you had a business trip in bumblebutt, CA and it was a two day drive. (because airlines don't go there). So you LUCC in the car, and you stop at a diner but don't want to leave the gun in the car. So you bring it in in your briefcase LUCC.

Then you get to the hotel and ... can you carry it on your person in the room? It's not your house, but you are staying there and "renting" it for the night, right?

So in that case, you aren't heading to the range or a camp site or anything, but you feel safer having it because you've never been to bumblebutt, CA and heard it can be a rough neighborhood at night.

I'm just looking for some legit scenario where this might be useful.

DRAB_81
08-30-2012, 10:00 AM
If this is true, the only way I can legally carry is with a CCW?

Unfortunately it is true, and yes the only legal option to do what you want to do, is with a Carry License.

MisplacedTexan
08-30-2012, 10:12 AM
I think most people can agree that in order to comply with the letter of the law.

a) transporting locked & out of reach that in an emergency situation it's almost useless
b) for most of us, a ccw is unlikely (I don't have a pilot's license or other exemption)
c) How far will you be from a range in your normal "deviations" that are "reasonable and necessary" - 5 miles you probably would be fine - but what if you are 50 miles away?
c) if you get pulled over and a cop decides to be a dick (a rarity) and searches your car your toast - and you loose ALL your guns.

To *me* it's not worth it - you will have to decide that is the risk vs. reward worth it to you????? You will NEVER find someone that will give you a blanket go-ahead that you can legally rely on.

adampolo13
08-30-2012, 10:13 AM
Question for you Adam... if you dont mind, whats the main reason or purpose you want to carry a firearm with you in your briefcase thats cased, locked with or without loaded mags? All these very logical posts that seem to lead to the same path is true no matter how you want to word it. If you feel the need for extra protection, do what I do and carry a legal sized pocket knife, like a inexpensive s&w, spyderco, buck whatever and either keep it on your waist belt or in you pocket with the clip shown, it basically needs to be shown as I have been told by many LE in different counties.

Other than that, I think you'll be breaking law without a ccw permit and is a very very expensive gamble. Like others have said, its basically useless by the time you open your briefcase, unlock your case, load the firearm, the threat has already happened. Your probably better off swinging the **** outta that brief case and beat your attacker that way..just saying. However which way you choose Adam, good luck to you.

What if an attack starts on the other side of the building where I have time to unlock my gun. Granted, it is not the "ideal" for quick draw etc, but it would be better than nothing.

rickster1269
08-30-2012, 10:29 AM
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/travel

JeremyS
08-30-2012, 10:44 AM
Adam, check out Titan Gun Vaults. You can take your unloaded gun in a locked container and with the optional magazine attachment carries a loaded magazine in an attached yet separate container.Not sure I understand the point of this. It's legal to have a loaded magazine in the same container, so why wouldn't you?

It is my belief that a lot of people keep an unloaded gun and a loaded mag(s) in a locked container with them basically all of the time. They believe that it is impossible to prove that you weren't on your way to an "authorized location," which is anywhere that's legal for you to have your gun, which is any number of zillions of places, and some don't think that's even a real requirement of the law.

CA does have an exemption to requiring a license to carry a loaded, concealed firearm. You can legally carry a loaded concealed gun if your life (or great bodily harm, etc) is in immediate danger. Immediate danger, however, means that you have already called the police for help so there isn't any fudge room here. Considering the very FIRST paragraph in the CA Constitution is as follows (bold is mine), I'm surprised at the restrictions in place:


SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy.

MARLANDO
08-30-2012, 10:48 AM
Costco is your friend...

http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v1.jpg
http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v.jpg

adampolo13
08-30-2012, 10:52 AM
Costco is your friend...

http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v1.jpg
http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v.jpg

I like that but would that qualify???

SilverTauron
08-30-2012, 10:53 AM
What if an attack starts on the other side of the building where I have time to unlock my gun. Granted, it is not the "ideal" for quick draw etc, but it would be better than nothing.

If you have time to unlock and load your weapon , you have enough time to get the frack out of dodge and dial 911.

Thus LUCC becomes a no win scenario in that situation;if you load and shoot down the bad guy, you'll be subject to criminal charges and a certain loss in civil court. If you had enough time to unlock a case and chamber a round, the bad guy wasn't a threat to your life. 20 people being shot on the other side of the building is tragic, but that's not the same as there being a threat to YOUR life.

The flip side to the conundrum is that if the spree shooter IS an immediate threat to your life, you won't have time to unlock and chamber anything. I hold a CCW permit and am carrying a loaded Condition 1 1911 & its completely possible should a bad guy act fast enough ILL be taken by surprise.

That's with a loaded handgun on my person. In a case? Forget about it. It may as well be on the moon when the flag flies.

someR1
08-30-2012, 10:58 AM
Get a CCW

^^this

Why carry a locked, unloaded weapon, that will most likely be in your car? It will take literally 60-90 seconds to find your keys, unlock the gun case, load the mag, and be ready to go. By then you will be SOL ...

adampolo13
08-30-2012, 11:00 AM
^^this

Why carry a locked, unloaded weapon, that will most likely be in your car? It will take literally 60-90 seconds to find your keys, unlock the gun case, load the mag, and be ready to go. By then you will be SOL ...

Can't get a CCW where I live. Remember, "may issue" not "shall issue"

someR1
08-30-2012, 11:02 AM
where I have time to unlock my gun...

99% of the time, you have about 15 seconds to grab a gun to defend yourself. Try unlocking your gun case and then loading it. Guarantee it will take more than a minute. And you would be dead.

JeremyS
08-30-2012, 11:03 AM
I like that but would that qualify???
Yes, why wouldn't it? The law says in a locked container and does not specify where in the car it can/cannot be. It says the glove compartment or center console, even if they lock, do not count as locked containers themselves. This works because it is a separate locked container located within those locations.

someR1
08-30-2012, 11:03 AM
Can't get a CCW where I live. Remember, "may issue" not "shall issue"

How do you know if you haven't even tried? Have faith !

adampolo13
08-30-2012, 11:04 AM
How do you know if you haven't even tried? Have faith !

Don't meet the guidelines....

My "Good Cause" doesn't stand up. My Moral Character is fine...

hkdad
08-30-2012, 11:21 AM
Costco is your friend...

http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v1.jpg
http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v.jpg


I have this! It's awesome!

Librarian
08-30-2012, 11:43 AM
The magazines can be loaded as long as they are not in the mag well.
The grey area seems to be whether the magazines need to be in a locked container, or only the gun. The statements are not clear but my take is that mags don't matter.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting#NOT_in_a_vehicle

The confusing part is "...and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

I've never found what 'authorized locations' or 'reasonably necessary' means.

I hope you saw that the heading for that section is NOT in a vehicle The wiki article has live-links to the Penal Code that give all the listed 'authorized locations'.

OP, carrying outside your vehicle is problematic (in your vehicle is generally OK). Without LTC, I recommend against 'general' carry outside your vehicle; your assessment of your risk should drive your decisions.

So long as you are carrying the handgun unloaded in a locked container, as the law requires, doesn't matter where the magazines (loaded or not) are carried.

Novaholic
08-30-2012, 1:26 PM
I would assume if caught at minimum its a misdemeanor and or could be trumped up to a higher charge. Could a conviction result in losing your right to own a gun?

I believe its just not worth the effort, CCW would be though.

Eldraque
08-30-2012, 4:25 PM
Can't get a CCW where I live. Remember, "may issue" not "shall issue"

Then move to a place that you can get a ccw. or take your chances being unarmed.

adampolo13
08-31-2012, 9:07 AM
Then move to a place that you can get a ccw. or take your chances being unarmed.

Do you own a home? Do you own a business? Do you have a wife and family? When you have these responsibilities, as I do, a person can't just up and move.

GuillermoAntonio
08-31-2012, 10:17 AM
Do you own a home? Do you own a business? Do you have a wife and family? When you have these responsibilities, as I do, a person can't just up and move.

Yet you can loose all of that if you use your weapon incorrectly.
As someone stated above, if you are next door to a shooting, open your case, your locked container, load your gun and then shoot someone, you could be sued for your home, your business, and go to jail and that's gonna hit your family bad.

If you are that much in need of carrying, it's best to move to a shall issue county.

adampolo13
08-31-2012, 10:30 AM
Thank you to those who did not give me their opinions on why I should or shouldn't carry and gave me advice on the best legal way to carry.

someR1
08-31-2012, 10:34 AM
Do you own a home? Do you own a business? Do you have a wife and family? When you have these responsibilities, as I do, a person can't just up and move.

FYI if you own a business you can carry a loaded weapon, as long as you are on your property (just like you are at home).

odslim
08-31-2012, 10:56 AM
Thank you to those who did not give me their opinions on why I should or shouldn't carry and gave me advice on the best legal way to carry.


Man...I think you should thank everyone thats even took the time to even respond to your thread. However which way you seek information, no matter what your gonna get opinions and on why they gave you that advice. Look at your thread title, when I first read it, the first thing that came to my head as an answer was "you can't".

someR1
08-31-2012, 11:40 AM
Man...I think you should thank everyone thats even took the time to even respond to your thread. However which way you seek information, no matter what your gonna get opinions and on why they gave you that advice. Look at your thread title, when I first read it, the first thing that came to my head as an answer was "you can't".

exactly. I'm not trying to be rude . But lets face it....the ONLY way to carry, is to carry concealed ! Is locking up your gun and storing it in your car "better than nothing?" Sure. But that argument is irrelevant when all it takes is 10 seconds for someone to pull out a gun and shoot you.

I think the OP needs to consider CCW. If you haven't applied, then you can't use the excuse "I won't get it because I live in a city that rarely issues"

Robidouxs
08-31-2012, 1:43 PM
My ccw class taught me if your gun is not loaded and ready to go on your person you are dead. Have in your mind a 22ft kill zone. This is the amount of distance a person can cover in the time it takes you to fire 2 shots when your pistol is unholstered. Most of your situations where you have to defend yourself will occur in this 22ft area and will last an entire 5 seconds from start to finish. If you have to LUCC you might as well not be carrying, it would make a good object to throw.....

chris1911
08-31-2012, 1:44 PM
20 people being shot on the other side of the building is tragic, but that's not the same as there being a threat to YOUR life.


Pardon my ignorance here but doesn't the actual code say loss of life for yourself or others?

Excelsior
08-31-2012, 2:48 PM
So I could LEGALLY walk around with a LOCKED attache case that held an UNLOADED firearm along with separate LOADED magazines or speed loaders?

Or must I be on my way to a range or coming home from one?

May I also ask what constitutes a "locked case"? A locked Samsonite or Halliburton attache case is one thing. How about a soft-sided briefcase or a knapsack that was locked? Thanks much!

Old4eyes
08-31-2012, 4:24 PM
So I could LEGALLY walk around with a LOCKED attache case that held an UNLOADED firearm along with separate LOADED magazines or speed loaders?

Or must I be on my way to a range or coming home from one?

May I also ask what constitutes a "locked case"? A locked Samsonite or Halliburton attache case is one thing. How about a soft-sided briefcase or a knapsack that was locked? Thanks much!

Ah, you want a black and white answer from a poorly written law. The statute does not state what qualifies as a locked container. I believe that a soft sided briefcase, knapsack, gun rug etc all qualify. The law does not give and direction as to how substantial the lock must be. My lock I use on a gun rug is a tiny puny thing. It's not a protection against thieves, it's there to slow me down, which is what I believe the law intends.

The loaded magazine is or should be a clear issue after People v. Clark. The realities in the real world are a different manner. I have been told by a local gun store, who got their information from the local police that a loaded magazine, outside of the gun, still constitutes a loaded pistol. I've heard that story at another gun store, and at two ranges. One of the ranges stated they got their information from a police officer who volunteers at the range as a safety officer.

So while anyone who looks at the write up on the Calguns site on the Clark case would come to the conclusion that a loaded magazine OUTSIDE of the gun is legal, the LEO putting you in cuffs may not be in agreement.

If you've determine that deadly force is needed, you are at a severe disadvantage at the outset in the time getting to your gun. As was pointed out earlier, if you've got the time to grab your case, open it, slip in the magazine and rack the gun, you've probably had enough time to slam the gas pedal down and get out of dodge.

I don't transport my magazines loaded. If a search of my vehicle were to occur, I do not want an officer's misinterpretation of the law getting me into a court fight. I'd rather spend my money on ammo versus feeding a lawyer's wallet.

XDJYo
08-31-2012, 9:13 PM
If the OP is sincerely wanting to find a LEGAL way to conceal carry, he should consult an attorney with experience with this sort of thing and not rely on an internet forum.

From what I have been reading in the 'How to own a gun in California and not land in jail' book, a magazine can be construed by some attorney's as being part of the gun (which it is), so a loaded magazine is a loaded gun (not considering People vs. Clark since I haven't read that yet).

Play it safe, not Buckaroo. Don't be foolish.

Librarian
08-31-2012, 10:32 PM
Gotta read People v Clark - start with the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Defining_loaded_in_California

Doheny
08-31-2012, 10:56 PM
I don't support you giving advise that is illegal on a public forum.

I support you not supporting him giving illegal advice.

Term
09-01-2012, 1:17 AM
I have been told by a local gun store, who got their information from the local police that a loaded magazine, outside of the gun, still constitutes a loaded pistol. I've heard that story at another gun store, and at two ranges. One of the ranges stated they got their information from a police officer who volunteers at the range as a safety officer.


Wow,I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

Old4eyes
09-01-2012, 9:46 AM
Wow,I dont know whether to laugh or cry.

Well, I go for a third option which involves wording not allowed on this forum.

GuillermoAntonio
09-01-2012, 4:46 PM
Per the CHP website, question #7 from the top:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

I will be traveling to California and want to carry my weapon. I currently have a concealed weapon permit. How can I legally transport my weapon while driving through the state?
California law does not recognize concealed weapon permits from other states; therefore, they would not be held valid. If you wish to transport a handgun during your California visit, it should be carried unloaded in a locked container. In the absence of a suitable container, you may secure the unloaded handgun in the locked trunk of a passenger car. Ammunition may be kept in the same container or trunk, but the handgun must remain unloaded with no rounds in the cylinder and no loaded magazines in the magazine well.

If you have additional questions, contact the California Department of Justice at 916-227-3703.

RobertSmith
09-01-2012, 4:57 PM
I asked this same question in the LTC section. See calguns link. (https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRl4gkPVsIjTFdLliQ1tE0M6vEfB-NPTT3s20iuUiyEY_0Uyo5QsQ)

Locked container, unloaded. Check out the nanovault, combo tumbler lock.
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transporting

whack
09-01-2012, 7:43 PM
Can ANYONE define "...and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

ANYONE? For the love of God... Someone chime in with a legal basis for that bit of drivel...

RedMonkey
09-01-2012, 8:15 PM
b) for most of us, a ccw is unlikely (I don't have a pilot's license or other exemption)

Can you expand on what this means?

Thanks,

RM


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Librarian
09-01-2012, 8:54 PM
Can ANYONE define "...and the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances."

ANYONE? For the love of God... Someone chime in with a legal basis for that bit of drivel...

No definition in law or caselaw. Since that generally applies to out of vehicle transport (as well as RAWs - Registered Assault Weapons), not a widespread problem.

trew10
09-01-2012, 8:57 PM
Get a CCW

Easier said then done!

Sakiri
09-01-2012, 9:11 PM
No definition in law or caselaw. Since that generally applies to out of vehicle transport (as well as RAWs - Registered Assault Weapons), not a widespread problem.

I'm assuming it means "if you have business there you can go there with it" in terms of anything but registered assault weapons, and with the RAWs it means "you are allowed to bring them here so you can carry them here". Think you can only fire some of them in certain locations, no?

At least that's how I've gathered it over the past week or two.

As for handgun transportation I'm reading that as "Unloaded, no mag in well, mag may be loaded in gun case/box but NOT IN MAG WELL. Locked case" and you can stick it just about anywhere.

Basically it's not illegally concealed if it's unloaded, locked in a case, and in general a pain in the tuckus to actually access in a quick manner. IE: fiddling with locks, loading, etc.

And it's illegal to use it out in public anyhow I'd think. Well, in a "do not discharge firearms" area.

If I'm wrong, please correct.

Squid
09-01-2012, 9:47 PM
That means you, as an official "guard" have the same powers to 'challenge' people on the property as the owner, so you can tell people to 'get lost or get arrested' when he ain't around.

You will be "in house security".

Then, in two years you can open your own PPO (private patrol operator) and get the ins.(about $700/yr IIRC) to be an "Exposed Firearm" guard "on patrol".

Then you can pretty much walk around anywhere in public or drive around anywhere with an exposed loaded holstered handgun.

ptroxx
09-01-2012, 10:20 PM
Costco is your friend...

http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v1.jpg
http://content.costco.com/Images/Content/ProductLarge/331530LL_v.jpg

Does anyone know the name of this set up from costco ? ?

CH-47
09-01-2012, 10:44 PM
Prior to getting our anti-ccw Sheriff in Orange County I did have a permit but when it came up for renewal it was declined. In the letter informing me that my permit would not be renewed, the Sheriff stated that it was legal for me to carry at my place of business without a permit. In order to do that I must transport my firearm to and from work on a daily basis. I lock the firearm in a box cabled to the passenger seat frame, the loaded magazine is in easy reach outside of the box. I leave the box sitting on the seat next to me with the key inserted. If I were to get stopped, I would simply remove the key.
I'm a middle aged normal looking guy driving a newer vehicle with a spotless record.
I highly doubt a police officer would attempt to make a case out of this, and yes....I know it's not perfect, but if you saw the area were I worked you would understand why I will take any advantage I can can get. If you live in a county where they issue permits or work in a nice area it's real easy to sit back and tell other people to just leave it at home and hope for the best.

Excelsior
09-01-2012, 11:01 PM
Prior to getting our anti-ccw Sheriff in Orange County I did have a permit but when it came up for renewal it was declined. In the letter informing me that my permit would not be renewed, the Sheriff stated that it was legal for me to carry at my place of business without a permit. In order to do that I must transport my firearm to and from work on a daily basis. I lock the firearm in a box cabled to the passenger seat frame, the loaded magazine is in easy reach outside of the box. I leave the box sitting on the seat next to me with the key inserted. If I were to get stopped, I would simply remove the key.
I'm a middle aged normal looking guy driving a newer vehicle with a spotless record.
I highly doubt a police officer would attempt to make a case out of this, and yes....I know it's not perfect, but if you saw the area were I worked you would understand why I will take any advantage I can can get. If you live in a county where they issue permits or work in a nice area it's real easy to sit back and tell other people to just leave it at home and hope for the best.

As long as that is legal, it actually sounds like an excellent option. Why is it important for the box to be cabled to the seat frame? thanks.

Sakiri
09-01-2012, 11:54 PM
Does anyone know the name of this set up from costco ? ?

That looks like a center console box which you can't use without a carry permit I thought? No glove box no center console...?

ptroxx
09-02-2012, 12:17 AM
That looks like a center console box which you can't use without a carry permit I thought? No glove box no center console...?

Thanks but wasnt the question.. anyone know the info on this set up... `

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 3:42 AM
That means you, as an official "guard" have the same powers to 'challenge' people on the property as the owner, so you can tell people to 'get lost or get arrested' when he ain't around.

You will be "in house security".

Then, in two years you can open your own PPO (private patrol operator) and get the ins.(about $700/yr IIRC) to be an "Exposed Firearm" guard "on patrol".

Then you can pretty much walk around anywhere in public or drive around anywhere with an exposed loaded holstered handgun.

Anywhere I've checked, BSIS armed cards come with stipulations that you're only allowed to carry a firearm during the specific course of your duties. Are you saying that you can articulate that since you are an "on patrol" guard, your course of duty covers everywhere you go? For example, it's 11pm, you head to your local corner store to buy a gallon of milk. Someone calls the police, they show up to check on you. Do you show them your BSIS card and walk away like it's a CCW?

I could be wrong, but I'm not sure that's entirely true.

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 3:48 AM
Thanks but wasnt the question.. anyone know the info on this set up... `

Google, my good sir.

Costco - Console Vault (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11318704&Ne=4000000&N=4052853&Mo=2&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=93616&Sp=C&cm_sp=Office-_-LeftNav-_-HealthDentalInsurance)

ptroxx
09-02-2012, 7:20 AM
Google, my good sir.

Costco - Console Vault (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11318704&Ne=4000000&N=4052853&Mo=2&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=93616&Sp=C&cm_sp=Office-_-LeftNav-_-HealthDentalInsurance)

LOLI tried that but it didnt work for me... than you ....I Like this set up

CH-47
09-02-2012, 7:29 AM
As long as that is legal, it actually sounds like an excellent option. Why is it important for the box to be cabled to the seat frame? thanks.

I've used a briefcase with a combo lock as well but I like to be able to slide the box under the seat if I have to stop at the supermarket on the way home.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

durandal
09-02-2012, 12:12 PM
Guys, its legal to transport your weapon as you are going between your home, private property, your place of business, campsite or temporary residence. shooting range is just one exempted destination.

Does anyone know the name of this set up from costco ? ?

Isnt this potentially illegal in CA?

Sakiri
09-02-2012, 12:50 PM
Guys, its legal to transport your weapon as you are going between your home, private property, your place of business, campsite or temporary residence. shooting range is just one exempted destination.



Isnt this potentially illegal in CA?

Not if you have a carry permit.. if you're sticking a gun in it.

I don't imagine it'd be illegal for storage of other things. That said, it's too nice(and likely expensive) to stick in our beater atm. :/

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 1:58 PM
LOLI tried that but it didnt work for me... than you ....I Like this set up

No problem :D

guns4life
09-02-2012, 2:14 PM
Google, my good sir.

Costco - Console Vault (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11318704&Ne=4000000&N=4052853&Mo=2&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=93616&Sp=C&cm_sp=Office-_-LeftNav-_-HealthDentalInsurance)


man, that's pricey for what it is....but I really like it.

Shapes And Colors
09-02-2012, 2:20 PM
man, that's pricey for what it is....but I really like it.

I thought it was pretty pricey too. I suppose it's a good thing my car has a tiny folding center console, now I don't have to convince myself it's worth the money as it won't fit anyway.

guns4life
09-02-2012, 3:12 PM
I thought it was pretty pricey too. I suppose it's a good thing my car has a tiny folding center console, now I don't have to convince myself it's worth the money as it won't fit anyway.


I would be putting this in an expedition and I'm pretty sure it has the largest center console available(across the board)...I can almost set my laptop down in there, flat on the bottom. It's freaking huge, people always laugh at how huge it is when I open the console. I can see why my particular model may be a little more, but 250.00 seemed about 75.00-100.00 too much(for me). I could probably find a mini safe that I could lay down face up, I'm gonna go take some measurements. haha

Librarian
09-02-2012, 4:41 PM
I'm assuming it means "if you have business there you can go there with it" in terms of anything but registered assault weapons, and with the RAWs it means "you are allowed to bring them here so you can carry them here". Think you can only fire some of them in certain locations, no?

At least that's how I've gathered it over the past week or two.

As for handgun transportation I'm reading that as "Unloaded, no mag in well, mag may be loaded in gun case/box but NOT IN MAG WELL. Locked case" and you can stick it just about anywhere.

Basically it's not illegally concealed if it's unloaded, locked in a case, and in general a pain in the tuckus to actually access in a quick manner. IE: fiddling with locks, loading, etc.

And it's illegal to use it out in public anyhow I'd think. Well, in a "do not discharge firearms" area.

If I'm wrong, please correct.

Yes, that's a fair summary...

That means you, as an official "guard" have the same powers to 'challenge' people on the property as the owner, so you can tell people to 'get lost or get arrested' when he ain't around.

You will be "in house security".

Then, in two years you can open your own PPO (private patrol operator) and get the ins.(about $700/yr IIRC) to be an "Exposed Firearm" guard "on patrol".

Then you can pretty much walk around anywhere in public or drive around anywhere with an exposed loaded holstered handgun.
... but this is less so.

As another poster mentioned, actually have to be in uniform, working, or going to or coming from a job where the contract requires LOC, or to or from or at a range for purpose of practice. Not supposed to stop at a grocery store or a restaurant on the way, though a drive-through probably is no risk.

As a uniformed guard manager, could reasonably circulate among posts at different locations where one's employees are LOC in uniform and working under contract.

In uniform (and BSIS has rules for what uniforms must include) probably would not draw a lot of unwelcome interest in normal commercial areas where such guards are employed. In different contexts, however, Inquiries May Be Made.

Just-in
09-02-2012, 7:08 PM
Trying to bend the law in your favor.is not advised in the peoples republic of kalifornistan. Unloaded locked in a container with ammunition in a seperate container are how to transport handguns to the range here. Keep longuns unloaded and use a lock if you need to pass through a school zone. Hell use a lock anyway to avoid crap.

Reconsnake
09-02-2012, 7:20 PM
If you have time to unlock and load your weapon , you have enough time to get the frack out of dodge and dial 911.

Thus LUCC becomes a no win scenario in that situation;if you load and shoot down the bad guy, you'll be subject to criminal charges and a certain loss in civil court. If you had enough time to unlock a case and chamber a round, the bad guy wasn't a threat to your life. 20 people being shot on the other side of the building is tragic, but that's not the same as there being a threat to YOUR life.

The flip side to the conundrum is that if the spree shooter IS an immediate threat to your life, you won't have time to unlock and chamber anything. I hold a CCW permit and am carrying a loaded Condition 1 1911 & its completely possible should a bad guy act fast enough ILL be taken by surprise.

That's with a loaded handgun on my person. In a case? Forget about it. It may as well be on the moon when the flag flies.


Did you know that the second a bullet touches any part of your body, in any way, renders you immediately dead with no chance of even lifting a finger? I know, it sounds crazy, but I am sure you see it in plenty of hollywood movies so it must be true.

I am glad you realize that over 80% of gunshot wounds from pistols end with the victim surviving.

ptroxx
09-02-2012, 8:32 PM
Guys, its legal to transport your weapon as you are going between your home, private property, your place of business, campsite or temporary residence. shooting range is just one exempted destination.



Isnt this potentially illegal in CA?

Geez you guys.. I have a car that has no trunk so if im going to the range or property to shoot id like a good secure place to put my handgun not just some case that can be taken out of the car if im away from the car like in a store on the way home getting milk for the .. who am I kidding .. WHen I stop at the store its for ice cream for me...LOL

ptroxx
09-02-2012, 8:34 PM
Trying to bend the law in your favor.is not advised in the peoples republic of kalifornistan. Unloaded locked in a container with ammunition in a seperate container are how to transport handguns to the range here. Keep longuns unloaded and use a lock if you need to pass through a school zone. Hell use a lock anyway to avoid crap.

I always lock my long guns just to CMA... Rather be safe than sorry...

JeremyS
09-02-2012, 10:42 PM
That looks like a center console box which you can't use without a carry permit I thought? No glove box no center console...?Why do people keep saying this? No. The law states that your glove box or center console themselves do not count as locked containers. So you can't toss your loose pistol into the glove box and lock it and think that works. However, if you put your pistol into a legit "locking container" and then put that container into the center console, glove box, or ANYWHERE YOU WANT in your car, that's just fine. This is how people have them on the passenger seat, like CH-47 and many others on the forum here.

I believe the trunk, assuming no pass-through to passenger compartment, counts as a locked container because it is not accessible from the passenger compartment. The center console and glove box are accessible, so the law excluded them.


There's also a nifty (and quite expensive) safe that can mount to the center console or under a seat and, when you open the door, it "ejects" your gun outwards, grip first so you can grab it w/ a full grip immediately. There is a model that holds a magazine and that extends out from inside of the safe along with the gun. They're pretty cool and I'm sorry that I'm blanking on the brand. I'm sure somebody knows what I'm talking about.

AH... nevermind... it's only mentioned in like 1,000 threads on here :p http://www.titangunvault.com/


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