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J.D.Allen
08-28-2012, 7:34 PM
I love my CZ. But on another forum I asked about their long term reliability and was presented with this article

http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218

Anybody seen or heard of anything similar or had any of these issues on your own pistol?

pc_load_letter
08-28-2012, 8:02 PM
Heretic!!

I kid I kid. You know what they say, opinions are like @-h0les....

Funny, I was at the Academy of St. Crispian a few weeks back. The one guy with the CZ had zero malfunctions. The guy with a brand new Glock...jammomatic.

In my meager gun experience, I've learned from these boards and from my own experience that a failure can be caused by any number of things. Perhaps these guys were limp-wristing, not properly lubed, had bad ammo, never cleaned their mags etc etc.

Who really knows.

MP

sofbak
08-28-2012, 8:06 PM
Hmmmmm. I own an sp-01 tactical, and I only have about 700 rounds of .40 through it, and about 1000 rnds of .22 with the conversion slide. A lot of that n both calibers has been "hard duty" rapid fire type exercises. Except for a manufacturing issue with the .22 extractor, it has never failed to function as expected, and it eats every ammo brand I have tried-in both calibers.

There appears to be soime "bias" in that article. Let's look at a couple of statements:

CZ pistols are both popular and successful in the world competition arena. They’re also very common among various militaries throughout the globe.

Begs the question, "How could they gain this popularity and widespread use in militaries if they were as unreliable as TodG would have you believe?"

In fairness, one student got his gun working 100% on day four after replacing the extractor spring. The pistol had a little under 14,000 rounds through it when the troubles began.

14000 rounds on the original extractor spring? IDK, but that seems like a lot of use. IIRC, even Sig recommends a full service (including all springs) after 5000 rounds. Maybe he left out some details that might have bolstered his opinion.

YMMV, but mine has been all good with the tac.

InGrAM
08-28-2012, 8:20 PM
He lost my interest the second he insinuated that Ford's weren't reliable.

The internet is full of *******s, haters, fanboys, and wannabees. Sad though, because I really enjoy pistol-training's endurance tests.

at least One of the CZ "owners" was using Tanfoglio "pinned" to 10 round magazines but it reads like more where using them. Kind of idiotic to base a CZ's reliability on TZ magazines that have been modified to 10 rounds... but that is me...

zfields
08-28-2012, 8:45 PM
I love my CZ. But on another forum I asked about their long term reliability and was presented with this article

http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218

Anybody seen or heard of anything similar or had any of these issues on your own pistol?

If you havent noticed, if its not glock or HK, Todd hates it and its broken down every class without fail.


Not saying hes a bad shooter, bad trainer etc etc, just he has his brands, and everything else sucks. Same with a lot of the other "big" names out there.

Bug Splat
08-28-2012, 8:53 PM
Well duh, he was is Canada. CZ don't work when lubed with maple syrup :rolleyes:

Blah blah blah..... stupid write up from someone who does not even own a CZ. Pistols are a tuned machines and the author knew nothing of the pistols history or treatment. firearms are not simple systems and the owner should be to blame for its failures during class. Shooting 100 rounds through a clean pistol at your local indoor range is not a true test and dollars to donuts thats exactly how 99% of people who attend those classes show up. Nice pistol fed a nice diet of nice off the shelf ammo and then they come to class with the cheapest weakest ammo they could find on the internet then piss and moan when their guns jam and blame the gun. BS! If your gun does not work right, its your fault. Don't blame the MFG unless something breaks on the gun. Jams should be dealt with before that pistol is ever brought to a class. Tune your pistol. If you can't tune your own pistol send it to a gunsmith who can. If you don't want to pay for that then you get what you pay for. As you can tell this really is a hot button for me. I firmly believe even the cheapest of firearms can be tuned to run 100%. I pride myself on taking "cheap" guns and turning them into well tuned machines. A good mfg's reputation only proved better odds of buying a better running firearm.

glockwise2000
08-28-2012, 9:01 PM
Well duh, he was is Canada. CZ don't work when lubed with maple syrup :rolleyes:



:rofl2:

Seriously, I have an old CZ75B and it is on it's 900 round without cleaning and it still yet to meet malfunction. Very reliable HG no matter what I feed the beast.

NSR500
08-28-2012, 9:11 PM
Never a problem with my CZ or any I've come about.

BrassCase
08-28-2012, 9:16 PM
I have a CZ75B SA in 40 cal. that I bought new last December. I do have jamming problems where it fails to properly eject and jams on the incoming round. I took a good look at the feed ramp and noticed a small blemish. I read here on Cal-Guns of another guy with a similar problem. If i were to go through 3 mags I would have at least one jam. At first I thought it was a problem with one of the magazines so I marked each of them and found that during a normal range session of firing around 150 rounds through it I would have jams with all three of my mags. The other guy's posting said he sent his back under warranty and they kept it for about 6 weeks, CZ polished the feed ramp and all his problems went away. When it is working properly, I really like the gun. I've fired at least 2000 rounds through it. My Beretta PX4 in 40 has over 3000 rounds through it without an issue. I plan to send mine CZ in for warranty work.

BenHa
08-28-2012, 9:34 PM
~2k rounds through my CZ75B .40sw so far so good Zero issues

TripleThreat
08-28-2012, 9:48 PM
During Military testing, they shot 15,000 rounds from a P-01 it only had 7 feed failures. That's the lowest failures I know of.

JeremyS
08-28-2012, 9:58 PM
Definitely unfair to call a Tangfolio a CZ for this purpose. At any rate... whatever... I have a couple thousand rounds through my SP-01 with only one failure to feed. It was with an aftermarket magazine, reloaded ammo, and a friend was shooting it when it happened, so I'm writing that one off.

DRAB_81
08-28-2012, 10:05 PM
I don't have any experience with CZ's, but I'm curious if anyone of you has posted anything on Pistol Training Forum to see what the author has to say? He's very active on that forum, and seems to have a lot more experience than the average Calgunner. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but why not go straight to the source?

whipkiller
08-28-2012, 10:11 PM
I haven't had my SP-01 that long, and am probably only at about 1K rounds.

1K loaded, 1K fed, 1K fired, 1K ejected, and about 950 in the general vicinity of where they were supposed to go. The fliers were my fault, not the guns.

Rorge Retson
08-28-2012, 10:19 PM
2K+ rounds through my SP-01 and she's purring like a champ. ;)

BrassCase
08-28-2012, 10:24 PM
Mine are factory mags. I even had a friend shoot it to see if he had the same issue and sure enough... I'm happy with it but will be even happier after I get the issue resolved.

darmog
08-28-2012, 10:26 PM
Over 3k rounds thru my CZ P-01 with only one failure to feed during the first 200 rounds of break in with Walmart UMC 9mm 250 round value pack. Fed 2 more boxes of those afterwards with no problems and then various boxes of S&B, WWB, Fed value packs, Jack Ross reloads, and Freedom Munitions reloads with no problems. Also ran 2 boxes each of Fed 147gr HST and Winchester PDX1 without a hiccup. It's got 3 handgun courses under its belt and performed like a champ. Heck, the only gun that ever beat the little guy in those courses was a full size 1911 hitting a steel gong at 80+ yards.

zfields
08-28-2012, 10:35 PM
I don't have any experience with CZ's, but I'm curious if anyone of you has posted anything on Pistol Training Forum to see what the author has to say? He's very active on that forum, and seems to have a lot more experience than the average Calgunner. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but why not go straight to the source?

There was a thread on there after the article was posted. Basically was 'they all fail, and if yours hasn't your lying or aren't a real shooter' type deal or called a fanboy.

Sent from my fingers, to your face.

Rorge Retson
08-28-2012, 10:38 PM
There was a thread on there after the article was posted. Basically was 'they all fail, and if yours hasn't your lying or aren't a real shooter' type deal or called a fanboy.

No axe to grind there!! :cool2:

InGrAM
08-28-2012, 10:42 PM
I don't have any experience with CZ's, but I'm curious if anyone of you has posted anything on Pistol Training Forum to see what the author has to say? He's very active on that forum, and seems to have a lot more experience than the average Calgunner. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but why not go straight to the source?

Read the posts in the link. The CZ owners that took Todd's training course used defective, non-CZ but TZ(a different gun), "pinned" to 10 rounds magazines. The "only" CZ that lasted the full "four day" course had extraction issues. BUT it had ran 14,000 rounds without failure before that. Obviously a spring is going to wear out after 14000 rounds.... That is a reasonable assumption. The point is, that Todd had no idea what was going on with those pistols before they were at his training course. Nor did he post that the magazine that were used in the CZ's were clearly a problem and needed to be replaced with factory normal capacity magazines.

The article reads and is presented in a biased way, IMO. Any reputable firearms instructor and/or reviewer of firearms would have included that the magazine used had issues. No? A firearm is only as reliable as it's sum of parts.

I do not own a CZ. So, I don't have any stake in this nor am I a "fanboy". I am just a guy who read an article about CZ's. I on the other had have read pistol-training.com endurance tests before and I have used them as resources to promote other pistols such as the M&P and glocks. My bias would lean towards the author not against in this case but this is a clearly biased article intended to slant the quality and reliability of CZ as a brand.

DRAB_81
08-28-2012, 10:51 PM
There was a thread on there after the article was posted. Basically was 'they all fail, and if yours hasn't your lying or aren't a real shooter' type deal or called a fanboy.

Sent from my fingers, to your face.

Read the posts in the link. The CZ owners that took Todd's training course used defective, non-CZ but TZ(a different gun), "pinned" to 10 rounds magazines. The "only" CZ that lasted the full "four day" course had extraction issues. BUT it had ran 14,000 rounds without failure before that. Obviously a spring is going to wear out after 14000 rounds.... That is a reasonable assumption. The point is, that Todd had no idea what was going on with those pistols before they were at his training course. Nor did he post that the magazine that were used in the CZ's were clearly a problem and needed to be replaced with factory normal capacity magazines.

The article reads and is presented in a biased way, IMO. Any reputable firearms instructor and/or reviewer of firearms would have included that the magazine used had issues. No? A firearm is only as reliable as it's sum of parts.

I do not own a CZ. So, I don't have any stake in this nor am I a "fanboy". I am just a guy who read an article about CZ's. I on the other had have read pistol-training.com endurance tests before and I have used them as resources to promote other pistols such as the M&P and glocks. My bias would lean towards the author not against in this case but this is a clearly biased article intended to slant the quality and reliability of CZ as a brand.


Fair enough. This thread has been the first time I have seen of any mention of problems with CZ's, so it's good to hear that there were other factors in play. Carry on.

zfields
08-28-2012, 10:53 PM
Fair enough. This thread has been the first time I have seen of any mention of problems with CZ's, so it's good to hear that there were other factors in play. Carry on.

Guess you never saw my thread about my 75sa having a minor kaboom. Man made product, man made issues. Barrel was out of spec.


I'm a self admitted cz Guy, but I have some gripes over some of the design and function aspects, but for me, its still better then anything else I have come across.

Sent from my fingers, to your face.

DRAB_81
08-28-2012, 11:05 PM
Guess you never saw my thread about my 75sa having a minor kaboom. Man made product, man made issues. Barrel was out of spec.


I'm a self admitted cz Guy, but I have some gripes over some of the design and function aspects, but for me, its still better then anything else I have come across.

Sent from my fingers, to your face.


Yeah I missed that one. I'm a Glock guy, so I have a hard time believing that any other pistol besides a Glock KaBoom'd :D

I tend to keep my nose out of threads about guns I have no interest or experience with, but this one caught my attention. There's been a TON of CZ related posts lately, and all have been positive, so I had to check this out. I'm actually starting to consider buying other handguns besides Glocks, so a SP-01 might find its way into my safe someday.


.

zfields
08-28-2012, 11:11 PM
Yeah I missed that one. I'm a Glock guy, so I have a hard time believing that any other pistol besides a Glock KaBoom'd :D

I tend to keep my nose out of threads about guns I have no interest or experience with, but this one caught my attention. There's been a TON of CZ related posts lately, and all have been positive, so I had to check this out. I'm actually starting to consider buying other handguns besides Glocks, so a SP-01 might find its way into my safe someday.


.

It was more of a kerpow. Was having massive case/head seperations. Couple mag blow outs which scared me ****less. Since the swap zero issues.

My main cz negitive : tight chambers that do NOT like some bullet profiles. Mainly the stubby hollow points like the 124 Berry's plated. The chamber shape angles in very sharply and forces you to seat very deep.

Sent from my fingers, to your face.

Zartan
08-29-2012, 5:36 AM
Mine has HUGE issues...magazines empty way to quickly, with zero problems.

TATER313
08-29-2012, 6:14 AM
My first CZ 75 I put well over 15000 rounds no malfunctions because of the gun, just a few times with a box of bad factory ammo in the late 80's.

BrassCase
08-29-2012, 6:49 AM
I know my feed/extraction issue will get resolved. I'll try and take a picture of the ramp defect tonight and post it. My only design complaint, I know others share it as well, is that the slide release would be better if it were located back more so that I could release it with my right thumb while holding it with one hand, now I release it with my left hand while gripping it in my right hand. My Beretta and Sig are set for my right hand thumb to release the slide.

Rorge Retson
08-29-2012, 7:44 AM
I know my feed/extraction issue will get resolved. I'll try and take a picture of the ramp defect tonight and post it. My only design complaint, I know others share it as well, is that the slide release would be better if it were located back more so that I could release it with my right thumb while holding it with one hand, now I release it with my left hand while gripping it in my right hand. My Beretta and Sig are set for my right hand thumb to release the slide.

I am fortunate to have long enough thumbs to be able to reach it as it is, but I am with you, it would be much nicer to have the release further back. However, a beef like this is miniscule when in the context of being able to hit shot after shot on target.

This past Monday at the range I upped my tempo (to the limit of what my range would allow....actually past that limit a few times), and shot 10-shot groups much better than when I was shooting more slowly. That was pretty damn exciting, and speaks volumes for how natural this gun feels in my hands.

Can't wait for the BLM land to open back up here so I can make some steel sing once again... :D

Hopalong
08-29-2012, 8:30 AM
P01 is Nato certified

Lot of testing for that classification

Euphoria526
08-29-2012, 8:57 AM
So is the sp01. Duh.
CZ's are one of the best underrated guns out there. Screw that article it's obvious that guys a fanboy of glocks/m&p/anything polymer

JNunez23
08-29-2012, 9:01 AM
Not one single problem in 5 months of ownership.

Q619
08-29-2012, 10:19 AM
Got 1500 through my 75SA. No issues to speak of. Don't run it hard though. 500 rounds between cleanings and never shoot more than 250 through it at one time. It's just a fun gun for me though. I don't carry it or plan on doing so. It's very easy to shoot and is so accurate, makes a great paper puncher! I carry HK p2000/P30, Glock 19/26 and S&W J frames. I pretty much stick with polymer guns for the weight factor apart from range trips with my CZ and 1911's. I've owned a couple CZ's and know people that shoot them without issue. I'd take anything you read on the internet with a grain of salt. People like to talk.

elSquid
08-29-2012, 10:31 AM
An interesting data point:

http://www.601skss.cz/english/index_en.html

http://www.601skss.cz/english/clickmap/glock_en.html

But seriously...

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1064-CZ-shadow-vs-G17-4G&p=17244&viewfull=1#post17244

-- Michael

CZ9
08-29-2012, 10:57 AM
I love my cz, but I have had a few minor issues. As my first semi auto handgun I did not know how to clean it properly. I had sent 1k plus rounds down my gun without realizing I needed to clean behind my extractor. This caused a few failure to extracts and causing the next round to hold the empty in place (double feed?) It was the same exact failure every time. Since noticing my poor cleaning habit and fixing that issue, by actually cleaning that gunk off, I haven't had one jam of any sort.
Next issue was I broke the firing pin retaining pin. Basically I dry fired the pistol a lot, and I mean a lot. But simple fix of installing a new pin.
These 2 issues, in my opinion, were my fault. 1 I should have cleaned under the extractor. And 2 should have got to the range for live fire instead of snap caps.

himurax13
08-29-2012, 11:11 AM
CZ's are crap. All of you should put yours up for sale for almost nothing in the classified's right now. ;)

I am sorry but every design of gun has issues. Some guns of similar design are more reliable than others (probably has to do with what day of the week it was built). I have seen all sorts of 1911's, 2011's, Glocks, M&P's, XD's, Sigs, etc, have issues at the various matches. In fact I have seen more issues with Glocks than any other type of firearm, but I typically see more Glocks at the range than other types of pistols.

Thanks to the inherent unreliability of my personal 1911's and glocks, I am better than average when it comes to clearing malafunctions. I can contribute most of the malafunctions to bent or broken magazine feed lips/followers, dirt in the magazine from ejecting them onto the ground, and build of moly/lead on the rails/chamber. Is that the fault of the gun? I would say no, that is just the nature of the beast. If I shot nothing but factory FMJ and never dropped my magazines on the ground, my guns would probably run without any issues.

I don't like going to formal classes due to whatever Biases the instructors may have towards particular types of guns or styles of shooting. Everyone is different, and not every gun from any manufacturer is a POS.

If you are not having problems with your guns, you are simply not running them hard enough.

I have close to 20,000 rounds in my franken CZ-75 Shadow and the only times I had issues is when I was experimenting with mag extenders and Grams followers & spring combo to add an additional 7 rounds of capacity. If your guns are properly set up for whatever you are using them for (proper recoil spring for ammo, etc.) and you perform proper maintenance, then you should be good to go.

You should also be familiar with what to do when things are not good to go. I have seen an entire stages ruined because the shooter did not know how to properly clear his weapon.

Omil
08-29-2012, 11:39 AM
I love my CZ. But on another forum I asked about their long term reliability and was presented with this article

http://pistol-training.com/archives/3218

Anybody seen or heard of anything similar or had any of these issues on your own pistol?

No issues with all of my CZ's. Just keep them well maintenance, long term should be fine.:D

Lead Waster
08-29-2012, 11:47 AM
I was in a USPSA match 2 weeks ago with my SP-01, and it screwed me a few times. Pull the trigger and ... nothing. I finally tracked it down to one magazine that was not seating up all the way. The mags I was using are the mags that came with the gun, 6 used magazines. I think they will be de-commissioned now, and I'll be using the mags I bought for my CZ75 SA, even though they don't have a nice fat base because I don't trust the old (used) mags.

So..not really fair to the SP-01 to say it malfunctioned, but it did. My issue is always not well seated mags. Either by me or the old used mags. The mags were used in competition by the previous owner.

J.D.Allen
08-29-2012, 12:04 PM
Well, I'll go ahead and add my own experience. I have I would say approximately 1200 rounds through my 75B SA in 9mm without a single malfunction of any kind. This is all through factory mags, the two 16 rounders that came with it and the two ten rounders I bought afterward. Seems pretty good to me.

StefanJanowski
08-29-2012, 12:45 PM
My only problem is that my CZ is too reliable.

But i do have a problem with one of my aftermarket magazines having a hard time being inserted into the pistol.

Lead Waster
08-29-2012, 1:06 PM
My only problem is that my CZ is too reliable.

But i do have a problem with one of my aftermarket magazines having a hard time being inserted into the pistol.

You might have to loosed the grip screw, insert the problem mag, then retighten the screws to the right level.

I have this problem too. No problems with my very-used mags, but with some fresh aftermarket mags, they stick in the magwell during insertion if I don't loosen the grip screws. Not ideal, but I think they need breaking in. I believe one reason Glocks have a reputation for reliability is the uniformity of the magazines. For 1911's there are too many different brands of pistols and magazines that you have to keep trying to get a match that works for you.

daybreak
08-29-2012, 3:03 PM
My sp01 is a 3 months old.

2300 rounds through it so far and one failure to feed around round 1600ish. No problems otherwise. My gun was highly lubricated during the failure, and I'm wondering if there was too much froglube that got on the barrel ramp. I can live with 1 failure in 2300 rounds.

daybreak
08-29-2012, 3:06 PM
I was shooting WWB 115 grain, so that might have attributed to the failure.

Speer lawman 115 grain and 124 grain
Federal 115grain from Walmart
Monarch 115 grain
aguila 124 grain

All fed fine and ran great, but aguila is BY FAR the dirtiest.

Dhena81
08-29-2012, 4:04 PM
I love these kinds of threads guys talking about malfunctions in their guns but not blaming the gun looks like the CZ guys have the same disease 1911 guys suffer from. Some kind of brand amnesia :D

willerfortheworld
08-29-2012, 4:06 PM
I think there is more to the story then told. I think Todd has to put down the kool-aid and pull the plastic out of his *** for a while. "I have no isuess with poly framed guns". All major handgun manufacturer out there make very reliable firearms, I bought the CZ p-01 because it fit like a glove. The extensive 3 year testing by CZ and the NATO torture testing on the cz p-01 is not that big of a deal to me, as I think many major brand guns could also pass those test no problem like glock, xd, m&p, hk, Sig, ect.

I'm sure reloads, and non factory mags could be a big factor.

I have just bought the cz p-01 and even though I have only about 600 rounds threw it, no malfunctions at all and it shots lazer straight for a compact out of the box. No I'm not a fan boy of any company and I do not bash other guns "even if its a glock" ;p

Lead Waster
08-29-2012, 4:11 PM
Well OK then. I'm switching to my factory new magazines (both CZ and Mecgar) rather than using my very used CZ mags. I'll start counting from here to see if it's the mags or if I'm just a fanboi looking for excuses! :p

zfields
08-29-2012, 4:12 PM
I love these kinds of threads guys talking about malfunctions in their guns but not blaming the gun looks like the CZ guys have the same disease 1911 guys suffer from. Some kind of brand amnesia :D

Hold up,

I completely blamed my gun. But I am also not naive enough to think every gun that comes off the line is going to be 100%. Glock, Springfield, CZ, FN, or otherwise everyone is going to have an issue at some point.

slamfire51
08-29-2012, 5:26 PM
I own 2 CZ-82s hi-cap factory mags and of course they are surplus guns. One looks near unissued and the other looks like it was carried more that it was ever shot.

I've shot several boxes through each without any hiccups whatsoever.

I also owned a CZ Rami 2070 and that gun was one headache after another. I ended up selling it and bought a CZ-75. Another CZ that was trouble free.

Everyone forms opinions by either owning a particular gun or by reading someone else's assessment. The latter is the wrong road to take, IMO.

Czsp-01-9mm
08-29-2012, 5:30 PM
Everyone had an opinion, all I know is, I will trust my life to my cz

slamfire51
08-29-2012, 5:36 PM
Everyone had an opinion, all I know is, I will trust my life to my cz

I agree.

Some snub the 9x18 round in the CZ-82/83 as being an effective self defense round, but I bet my life on it everyday as I conceal carry.

Dhena81
08-29-2012, 7:40 PM
Hold up,

I completely blamed my gun. But I am also not naive enough to think every gun that comes off the line is going to be 100%. Glock, Springfield, CZ, FN, or otherwise everyone is going to have an issue at some point.

Agreed 100%

I think all someone can do is start with what is a reliable brand/design to begin with and hope for the best. I also think it's not intelligent to disregard a SME's point of view that has seen thousands of samples run hundreds of thousands of rounds.

Most shooters never get their gun to the round counts being discussed in the article so when someone says their insert gun here has not had any issues so far its kind of a baseless moot point.