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B16
08-27-2012, 7:41 AM
I posed this question to my LGS and they were unsure what would happen during a PPT where the handgun would turn up stolen.

Say you are meeting up to do a PPT, cash has been swapped, and the gun has been DROS'd. At what point would the gun turn up as reported Stolen? During the initial DROS where the gun store enters the serial number? Or sometime during the 10 day wait?

If this would be the case and the seller less than honest, are you pretty much screwed out of your money? I mean, the LGS does have the sellers Driver's License, would you need to file a police report?

How would this process work?

**NOTE: Yes, I do know that willingly buying a stolen firearm is a stupid thing to do and the title was merely a ruse to get a larger response.

teflondog
08-27-2012, 7:45 AM
I posed this question to my LGS and they were unsure what would happen during a PPT where the handgun would turn up stolen.

Say you are meeting up to do a PPT, cash has been swapped, and the gun has been DROS'd. At what point would the gun turn up as reported Stolen? During the initial DROS where the gun store enters the serial number? Or sometime during the 10 day wait?

If this would be the case and the seller less than honest, are you pretty much screwed out of your money? I mean, the LGS does have the sellers Driver's License, would you need to file a police report?
How would this process work?

**NOTE: Yes, I do know that willingly buying a stolen firearm is a stupid thing to do and the title was merely a ruse to get a larger response.

It would be stupid to sell a stolen firearm when you have to provide a valid DL. A police report would be filed and you could take the seller to court to recover your money.

CK_32
08-27-2012, 8:01 AM
Being they provided a valid DL they would then stop the PPT and refuse the transfer. Then they or you or both would need to file a police report and selling of stolen property and theft. And the police then track them down and if your lucky you get your $$ back. But being most pay and only accept cash that's going to be hard to prove how much you spent..

Reason I always discuss price and take out exact amount from my bank account to have decent proof of how much I spent.

sephy
08-27-2012, 8:30 AM
I doubt it would make it to a gun shop. If they stole the gun I'd imagine they would have more sense than to try to sell it "legally." It would probably get traded or sold without an ffl for much less or much more than its value, depending on the circumstances.

drunktank
08-27-2012, 8:46 AM
It's possible someone inheritted a stolen gun and later tried selling it.

Bangzoom
08-27-2012, 8:48 AM
you could always get the ser# before hand and go the the LAPD and just ask them

banzaijohn
08-27-2012, 9:03 AM
I bought a James Hoag custom 1911 from my LGS. Eighteen months later two Culver City detectives came knocking on my door asking me where the gun was as it belonged to their Lieutenant. The gun had been stolen, along with several others out of the locker room 5 years earlier. It had been entered into the system as a Revolver instead of a Pistol, so it didn't come up as a stolen gun during the DROS.

To add insult to injury, they call my Department, despite the fact I legally purchased the firearm and start a IA investigation on me. The gun was stolen by their janitor and resold when he figured he waited a sufficient amount of time. The LGS made good and reimbursed me. Nothing came of IA investigation, which never should have happened since it was Culver City's own error in entering the gun as a revolver in the first place.

No apology, nothing. That lieutenant even got a cool pair of cocobolo grips out of the recovery, since I tossed the pair of ugly plastic grips he had on the gun originally. At least I was able to put a couple thousand rounds through the gun.... really nice shooting Hoag.

buttcoco
08-27-2012, 9:12 AM
That sucks to hear. Some people should be given a badge. Shame to say but not all cops are there to protect and serve.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Jimbo60
08-27-2012, 9:14 AM
It would be stupid to sell a stolen firearm when you have to provide a valid DL. A police report would be filed and you could take the seller to court to recover your money.


Never underestimate the stupidity of the common criminal.



So far this year (I own a non-firearms second hand business) I have had three instances where people have come into my shop, with a police report, looking for stolen property that the perp sold in my shop.

The funny part is that I work under a Second Hand Dealer's License and every purchase is reported to local LE and held for 30 days. You need to have a valid I.D. with a current address, fill out the form and leave a thumbprint (like a Pawn Shop) for me to do business with you.

Yet the douchebags still do it. :rofl2:


Jim

Eddy's Shooting Sports
08-27-2012, 9:44 AM
I only recall one case back in the day at my dad's shop where we were contacted by DOJ during a 15 day wait that a Browning Hi Power was stolen. We had bought the gun from a regular customer that had nothing to hide. This was before the days of PPT or FDAS so buying guns was always a leap of faith. IIRC, the DOJ contacted our local PD that came to retrieve the gun. We sold the buyer something else and got our money back from the seller that was never charged. It was one of those deals where he had bough it from a friend who got it from another friend, etc. I don't know if they ever tracked down the thief.

Sky_DiveR
08-27-2012, 5:46 PM
Just think, if you live in a free state and can buy/sell firearms person to person without an FFL... a stolen firearm could pass thru a number of hands.

B16
08-27-2012, 6:27 PM
Thanks for all the replies so far and thanks for sharing your own first hand experiences with a stolen firearm.

I'm glad that the few transactions I've had have been through trustworthy Calgun members.

dachan
08-27-2012, 7:22 PM
I once received a Les Baer that was reported as stolen. A local Bay Area customer purchased it on a large national auction site, but the seller was a pawn shop in Reno. A few days after starting the DROS, DOJ called and told me it was a stolen item and that SJPD would be following up. I thought it would be SJPD because they were the largest close department around. A few days later, a couple of detectives show up and told me the story. The gun was reported "stolen" by a very, very recently ex-girlfriend of the owner (she basically walked out with it during the breakup) who then took it 250miles away to Reno and pawned it, thinking that's the end of it. Instead, my customer sees it on the auction site, wins the auction (beating everyone else in the country), and has it shipped back to within 10miles of the original owner. The pawn shop refunded my customer's money, the original owner got his gun back, and I guess the girlfriend is still on the lam for stealing a firearm.

Arkangel
08-27-2012, 9:31 PM
^^^ Crazy stuff.

ElToro
08-28-2012, 1:10 PM
all my used purchases have been through consignment ( now up to 30 day wait before DROS!) or PPT via meeting on Calguns. i would think that a person who KNEW it was hot would not be that stupid but you never know. if from a store, if they want to keep their rep, a consignment gun would be reimbursed im sure. a PPT, i would hope the FFL would provide the DL to the police. getting money back. that may be a trick.

esco2k2
08-28-2012, 3:21 PM
This happened to my brother earlier this month. I went into a gun shop (not going to say which one) to look for a new handgun. They had a practically new Beretta M9 that was never fired and it was a police trade in, at a steal of a price. My brother had been wanting one, so I text him to look at the gun. Couple days later my brother goes to the shop and buys the gun. The LGS says they have to wait a couple more weeks to start the DROS since it has to be in the store for at least 30 days, ok no problem. Everything goes "normal" and his pickup date was 8/18, he picks it up and I call him to see how the pickup went. He tells me they ended up giving him a brand new M9 because the used gun he bought was reported stolen, so my brother made out.

wisefire
08-28-2012, 4:21 PM
This happened to my brother earlier this month. I went into a gun shop (not going to say which one) to look for a new handgun. They had a practically new Beretta M9 that was never fired and it was a police trade in, at a steal of a price. My brother had been wanting one, so I text him to look at the gun. Couple days later my brother goes to the shop and buys the gun. The LGS says they have to wait a couple more weeks to start the DROS since it has to be in the store for at least 30 days, ok no problem. Everything goes "normal" and his pickup date was 8/18, he picks it up and I call him to see how the pickup went. He tells me they ended up giving him a brand new M9 because the used gun he bought was reported stolen, so my brother made out.

Getting a new gun at a used price sounds good to me.

ElToro
08-30-2012, 9:37 AM
This happened to my brother earlier this month. I went into a gun shop (not going to say which one) to look for a new handgun. They had a practically new Beretta M9 that was never fired and it was a police trade in, at a steal of a price. My brother had been wanting one, so I text him to look at the gun. Couple days later my brother goes to the shop and buys the gun. The LGS says they have to wait a couple more weeks to start the DROS since it has to be in the store for at least 30 days, ok no problem. Everything goes "normal" and his pickup date was 8/18, he picks it up and I call him to see how the pickup went. He tells me they ended up giving him a brand new M9 because the used gun he bought was reported stolen, so my brother made out.

so they switched DROS's on him ? did they make him sign new paper and wait 10 more days ? sounds weird. police trade in WTF ?

tel him to keep his receipts on that one. but a new gun at used price sounds like a deal.

Lead Waster
08-30-2012, 9:46 AM
so they switched DROS's on him ? did they make him sign new paper and wait 10 more days ? sounds weird. police trade in WTF ?

tel him to keep his receipts on that one. but a new gun at used price sounds like a deal.

I think the brother had to wait 30 days before even starting DROS so during those 30 days someone figured out it was stolen??

Lead Waster
08-30-2012, 9:48 AM
Just think, if you live in a free state and can buy/sell firearms person to person without an FFL... a stolen firearm could pass thru a number of hands.

Well, let's face it, if some scumbag steals a gun, they are most likely just going to sell it to some other scumbag in an alley anyway, DROS state or otherwise.

ElToro
08-30-2012, 9:54 AM
I think the brother had to wait 30 days before even starting DROS so during those 30 days someone figured out it was stolen??

sounds weird being a police trade in though. meaning duty gun ? now if it was just the local PD raising cash by selling evidence guns, ( instead of melting them down which is the PC thing to do) then why didnt they run the serial numbers themselves. Sounds like epic fail at the local PD.

regardless, sounds like the gun store did the honorable thing and replaced the gun at the agreed upon price and ate the loss.

saki302
08-30-2012, 3:49 PM
This is exactly why a user-searchable national database of stolen guns would be a great idea- both for law enforcement and gun collectors.

I know it's been tried before privately, but the ones that were put up weren't linked to any LE databases.

-Dave

Chaozu
08-30-2012, 6:48 PM
It's possible someone inheritted a stolen gun and later tried selling it.

I have an old 870 wingmaster I inherited from my grandma. It belonged to her husband before he died. I have no idea the status of it or if it's registered in his name or not. This is a gun that has been sitting around for literally 20 years now. What should I do if I want to sell it?

Sakiri
08-30-2012, 7:07 PM
I have an old 870 wingmaster I inherited from my grandma. It belonged to her husband before he died. I have no idea the status of it or if it's registered in his name or not. This is a gun that has been sitting around for literally 20 years now. What should I do if I want to sell it?

Not entirely sure but the handgun registration is a relatively new thing in comparison.

Like I know someone with an unregistered P38 from WW2 that was a war seizure. There was never a requirement to register it, and it was just never registered.


New purchases have to be though, and I think most of their rifles are registered.

Meety Peety
08-30-2012, 8:29 PM
I have an old 870 wingmaster I inherited from my grandma. It belonged to her husband before he died. I have no idea the status of it or if it's registered in his name or not. This is a gun that has been sitting around for literally 20 years now. What should I do if I want to sell it?
You're fine to sell it. The gun would not be registered because 1) it's a long arm and 2) it's older than registration.

Back on topic.. I could be incorrect but can't you be charged with buying stolen property even if you didn't know it was stolen? It would surely suck to not only lose your deal but also be charged with a crime.

hanover67
08-30-2012, 9:05 PM
I bought a used High-Standard HD Military .22 pistol some years ago. During the 10-day wait period the dealer called and told me that the gun had come up stolen, I think through the local police department. It was a consignment gun. In any case, the police had contacted the original owner who said he didn't want the gun back and had gotten an insurance payment for it, so the gun shop was free to sell it to me. I did want the gun, and completed the purchase.

What I don't know is A) Did they ever pursue the consignee, and B) What happens if i ever want to sell it? I kept the bill of sale.

jvpark
08-30-2012, 10:58 PM
the cops would knock on the door of the seller and get questions answered... I suppose you can sue the seller, if they don't end up in jail.

I bought a 1911 and it was frozen in dros and returned to the original owner. I was not contacted but the seller got a house call by the PD and was asked to explain how they acquired the gun.

myusername
08-31-2012, 12:44 AM
Maybe a little off topic, but I have an interesting story that shows the importance of keeping records.

Back in the 1970's I bought a Sterling .25 - remember those, LOL - from a local gun store. I was 21 and didn't know much about pistols, thought it was a cool gun.

I took it down to the range and the first round blew the end of the slide off! I mean the whole slide went whizzing past my ear and hit the back wall of the range awning! I don't remember what the problem was (bad casting?) but I took the gun back to the dealer and traded it for a "real" gun, a SS .357 of some sort. They don't call me "GunSlingerGirl" for nothing. ;)

So... about a year or two later this guy shows up beating on my front door demanding to know why I killed his brother! Once I got him to calm down what happened was "my" old Sterling turned up next to a dead body (the brother) deep in Mexico, my memory is foggy but I think it was Oxacca (or however it's spelled, the pot capitol of the time). Apparently he was the victim of a drug deal gone bad.

The gun traced to me, so the victim's brother came gunning for me. Back in those days there wasn't much in the way of registration, but luckily the gun store still had the records of my original sale and return and their subsequent sale to the victim. I think in those days used gun sales weren't forwarded to DOJ or whoever collected the info at the time.

This incident really impressed upon me early in life the importance of getting buyer info and keeping records. I've sold maybe a half dozen guns in my life. I've STILL got the info on that Sterling nearly 40 years later. The last I heard the local cops in Mexico had stolen the gun and I guess it is still floating around somewhere waiting to haunt me again.