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View Full Version : Trap - Away and up - Where to Aim?


Charles4400
08-26-2012, 9:03 PM
Was shooting some trap today and did very well on the crossing targets but for some reason I was having problems on the 'easy' shots going straigt away and up from you.

Just wanted to check to see where you are supposed to aim for those types of shots...under it (which is what I was doing) , directly on it (bead covering it) or slightly above it (since it is going up)????

Yes I know, should be easy, so please tell me what I'm doing wrong! :confused:

Kodemonkey
08-26-2012, 9:04 PM
tagged. I have the same problem and I don't know why either.

AAShooter
08-26-2012, 9:05 PM
I assume you are talking about skeet. Trap does not have crossing targets.

NoNOS67
08-26-2012, 9:07 PM
Was shooting some trap today and did very well on the crossing targets but for some reason I was having problems on the 'easy' shots going straigt away and up from you.

Just wanted to check to see where you are supposed to aim for those types of shots...under it (which is what I was doing) , directly on it (bead covering it) or slightly above it (since it is going up)????

Yes I know, should be easy, so please tell me what I'm doing wrong! :confused:

Most misses are low and/or behind. Try aiming a bit above the target.

Kodemonkey
08-26-2012, 9:08 PM
I assume you are talking about skeet. Trap does not have crossing targets.

Not sure about the original poster, but I have problems with the straight up and down shots that you would think would be easier than the ones going far left or far right in trap.

AAShooter
08-26-2012, 9:08 PM
Assuming you are talking skeet, this brochure should help: http://www.remington.com/~/media/Files/Booklets/skeet_fundamentals_2004.ashx

Here is a similar one for trap: http://www.remington.com/~/media/Files/Brochures/trap_fundamentals_2004.ashx

AAShooter
08-26-2012, 9:16 PM
For targets traveling away from you, there is very little perceived lead needed. Since the shot string largely travels up the same path as the bird, not much "lead is needed". So it is not uncommon for people to swing aggressively to get to the bird and then swing over the top of it with the shot. This happens a great deal for trap shooters on station 3 with a straight-away. The same can be true when standing at the low house at skeet and shooting a low-house bird.

Targets traveling perpendicular to the travel of the shot string require more lead. The problem is to make sure you are projecting the path of travel for the leading edge of the target correctly. Many people in these situation shoot "behind" the bird. Swinging more aggressively in front of the bird will often lead to success.

The nice thing about the clays sports, is the mind can learn this very quickly. Since the bird breaking provides instant feedback, the mind gets good sight pictures reinforced immediately.

Finally, maintaining the cheek weld when shooting is essential. Losing it destroys the sighting system in shotgunning. Many shooters will break that to look at the target or in a fast crossing target that crosses from the shooters support-side to the shooter's strong-side. This leaves you with no solid reference for the shot.

Charles4400
08-26-2012, 9:27 PM
Assuming you are talking skeet, this brochure should help: http://www.remington.com/~/media/Files/Booklets/skeet_fundamentals_2004.ashx

Here is a similar one for trap: http://www.remington.com/~/media/Files/Brochures/trap_fundamentals_2004.ashx

Thanks for the link to the articles I haven't read through them yet but will..thanks!

I am talking about trap...sorry your right, I don't mean crossing targets but the targets that shoot out far left or far right. If your on station 1 or 5 these would be the targets witht he most angle from you.

Those type targets I do well on, like kodemonkey though the targets that shoot out and up with the least angle I frustratingly tend to miss more.

For those targets I think the slight rise is messing me up... assuming cheek weld is good would you suggest aiming directly on the target or slightly above it?

I need to get back out there and see waht I'm doing wrong...missing easy shots is frustrating!!!

Kodemonkey
08-26-2012, 9:32 PM
I need to get back out there and see waht I'm doing wrong...missing easy shots is frustrating!!!

I hear you. I am at the point that I will be getting private instruction once it cools down. The wife and I have really started to get into the sport now and we have reached a level where we need some expert advice.

Peashooter
08-26-2012, 9:38 PM
My dad was a competition trap shooter in AZ back in the 60-70s He taught me to shoot clays.. For going away birds swing through and coverup the bird and follow through with the shot. Always on the rise,

AAShooter
08-26-2012, 9:39 PM
I think page 11 in the trap brochure referenced above will help with lead. For most right handed shooters, a hard right bird shot on Station 5 is the one where the shooter is most likely to pull the gun away from their cheek as they swing to catch the bird.

Also the diagram as far as hold position is important. Both foot position and hold point for the shotgun change depending on the station. This positions the shooter in a position so they can easily cover the range of targets thrown relative to that position. The hold position helps minimize gun movement necessary to hit the targets as well as improve visibility of the targets. Finally, some shooters find that holding slightly lower or higher on the trap house will make them more successful. For example, some will hold about 6" off the top of the trap house.

KWalkerM
08-26-2012, 10:16 PM
dont lead as much. if you have a field gun, cover the bird. if you have a trap or over under gun then shoot under. it all has to do with where your gun shoots. the other thing, is dont lead it as much as you think you need, i can almost guarantee you are shooting over the bird. i had this problem and fixed it by slowing down my swing because i was too aggressive

BigDogatPlay
08-27-2012, 5:40 AM
There is good advice in the thread above, particularly (as always) AAShooter. I get best results with my students keeping the bead just at the front roof line of the trap house when they set up, and their vision is focused on the field beyond the house. They (and I) seem to get the best look at the bird that way. The Remington brochure linked above is about the best advice around on paper and the techniques it describes can improve scores and understanding greatly.

Part of the answer goes around the gun you are shooting. Different guns shoot to different points of aim. For instance, my go to 1100 shoots pretty flat so on the straightaways, when the bead gets to the bottom of the bird the trigger gets pulled. Proper follow through and keeping a solid cheek weld should result in a puff of dust where the bird used to be and typically does. OTOH, I shot a new BT-99 on Saturday which is set up to shoot somewhat high. Once I had it figured out I found that I needed a good finger width of air between the bottom of the bird and the bead on straightaways, otherwise I was shooting well over the top of them.

This is why it's important to pattern your gun with a few different loads and find where it shoots relative to your point of aim.

fishnbeer
08-27-2012, 5:58 AM
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_dD_7W6iHY4TX4UQ6Al8PjpNW45UXb o2CH_-3_N-QhxsSaFf8UQ

"Easy, you just dont lead em' so much!"

KWalkerM
08-27-2012, 4:23 PM
There is good advice in the thread above, particularly (as always) AAShooter. I get best results with my students keeping the bead just at the front roof line of the trap house when they set up, and their vision is focused on the field beyond the house. They (and I) seem to get the best look at the bird that way. The Remington brochure linked above is about the best advice around on paper and the techniques it describes can improve scores and understanding greatly.

Part of the answer goes around the gun you are shooting. Different guns shoot to different points of aim. For instance, my go to 1100 shoots pretty flat so on the straightaways, when the bead gets to the bottom of the bird the trigger gets pulled. Proper follow through and keeping a solid cheek weld should result in a puff of dust where the bird used to be and typically does. OTOH, I shot a new BT-99 on Saturday which is set up to shoot somewhat high. Once I had it figured out I found that I needed a good finger width of air between the bottom of the bird and the bead on straightaways, otherwise I was shooting well over the top of them.

This is why it's important to pattern your gun with a few different loads and find where it shoots relative to your point of aim.

i was under the impression a high gun above the house was better for trap. all you need to do is move the guns left or right. provided you can shoot with bothe eyes open

trew10
08-27-2012, 4:27 PM
I did skeet shooting for first time yesterday had a blast.

AAShooter
08-27-2012, 5:44 PM
I did skeet shooting for first time yesterday had a blast.

Sounds great.

AAShooter
08-27-2012, 6:00 PM
i was under the impression a high gun above the house was better for trap. all you need to do is move the guns left or right. provided you can shoot with bothe eyes open

If that is working for you, then great. Realize that most trap guns shoot high. Consequently, their point-of-impact is anywhere between 6" and 18" above the point-of-aim. This is compared to many shotguns, especially field guns, that shoot "flat". Or, point-of-aim and point-of-impact are the same. This is because you are always shooting a rising bird unless you are shooting slowly. So beginning shooters will shoot birds that have crested and are dropping.

Although holding a high gun is has advantages, for many shooters holding on the top-front edge of the trap house or slightly higher (as BigDogatPlay mentioned) gives the shooter a better view of the shot area and they can pick up the bird faster. The down side is they have to move their gun further to get to the bird but it often works. Play around with the height and see what works. Even now, when I am having problems, I will drop the amount I hold over the trap house.

Finally, I don't think this has been mentioned, be sure you are seeing the bird before you try to shoot it. Even better, focus on the leading edge of the clay target. Once you have that, shoot it. So many beginners try to shoot the flash of color or start moving on the flash of color . . . make sure you see the target. Solid shooting technique with good follow-through usually will take care of the proper lead once you are more familiar.

One last thought--I found it very beneficial to set up the trap machine to throw a fixed target and shoot that shot at different stations. So set the machine up for hard right targets and shoot a round of trap on station 5. Or shoot 5 birds at each station so you understand how thing change as you perspective changes (different at each station). Remember foot position and your hold point change with each station.

AAShooter
08-27-2012, 6:05 PM
There is good advice in the thread above, particularly (as always) AAShooter. I get best results with my students keeping the bead just at the front roof line of the trap house when they set up, and their vision is focused on the field beyond the house. They (and I) seem to get the best look at the bird that way. The Remington brochure linked above is about the best advice around on paper and the techniques it describes can improve scores and understanding greatly.

Part of the answer goes around the gun you are shooting. Different guns shoot to different points of aim. For instance, my go to 1100 shoots pretty flat so on the straightaways, when the bead gets to the bottom of the bird the trigger gets pulled. Proper follow through and keeping a solid cheek weld should result in a puff of dust where the bird used to be and typically does. OTOH, I shot a new BT-99 on Saturday which is set up to shoot somewhat high. Once I had it figured out I found that I needed a good finger width of air between the bottom of the bird and the bead on straightaways, otherwise I was shooting well over the top of them.

This is why it's important to pattern your gun with a few different loads and find where it shoots relative to your point of aim.

Good points. Thanks for the compliment.

BigDogatPlay
08-27-2012, 8:42 PM
i was under the impression a high gun above the house was better for trap. all you need to do is move the guns left or right. provided you can shoot with bothe eyes open

If holding above the house works for you then there's nothing wrong with that for you. We each have to find the way that works best for us. But, when I get people holding the bead at the front edge of the house roof, they often say they get a better look at the bird and their scores usually go up. One lady I've been working with the past couple of months has gone from single digits to 20 or better pretty consistently.

If you hold above the house you are taking away from the time you have to get on the target and break it. If you anticipate the target even slightly you'll quite often be jerking the gun back to the target because you guessed wrong.

To echo AAShooter many game specific trap guns are regulated to shoot somewhat high to start with. Bear in mind also that the really good shooters are shooting very tight chokes even at short distances so they have to get the gun to the bird to score. The more time you have to see the bird right from the house, the sooner you'll get to it and shoot it.

sargenv
08-28-2012, 6:29 AM
Trap is traditionally away and up.. I try to wait for the target to apex and hit it while the target is on the way down. Othwerwise I try to lead it just a bit and ambush it on the way up.

Depending on where you are on the stations the target appears to either go straight away or at an angle leftward or rightward.

Skeet is a different animal.. open chokes, and I'm certain you can find a chart that tells you the approximate leads to ensure good hits.

The key to both versions of clays is to keep the gun moving.. don't stop or else you will wind up being behind the target.. too many people try to aim a scattergun.. it doesn't work that way.

mjsweims
08-29-2012, 8:04 PM
For those targets I think the slight rise is messing me up... assuming cheek weld is good would you suggest aiming directly on the target or slightly above it?

I need to get back out there and see waht I'm doing wrong...missing easy shots is frustrating!!!

Have you patterned your gun? If you have you should know where the shot is going based on where you point. Often trap guns will have the shot mostly above your point at 35 yards.

TempleKnight
08-29-2012, 9:11 PM
Have you patterned your gun? If you have you should know where the shot is going based on where you point. Often trap guns will have the shot mostly above your point at 35 yards.

I'm gonna second this suggestion. If the shot isn't going where you it's think it's going it will drive you crazy. If your shotgun came with a set chokes, try them all on the pattern board. I think you will be surprised to see the dispersion at different distances as well as the shot density.