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View Full Version : California just peed in my Cheerios...


StormRaven
08-23-2012, 6:36 PM
So, here I am happily browsing for sale posts over on the Colt forum. I can't buy right now, but am looking forward to the end of the year, perhaps, for another old Colt revolver to keep my 65 Official Police company. I see an ad for a nice revolver made in the 70s, and the seller says NO SALES TO CALIFORNIA.

So, I started doing a little research, trying to figure out why.

And then it hit me. An old 1970s Colt Trooper MK III certainly wouldn't be on the roster. And... that means, no interstate transfers, even through FFLs, right? The gun would have to be 1962 or older. So, if I ever have a prayer of getting a Python, it's going to have to be 50 years old to buy from someone not in California on Gunbroker, or be purchased from someone living in CA via PPT.

Do I have this inanity correct?

stix213
08-23-2012, 6:42 PM
Sounds about right without verifying the exact dates.

An alternative is to use an FFL that will do single shot exemptions. I think for revolvers they call it a single action exemption. There is a sticky on the topic at the top of the handgun forum.

StormRaven
08-23-2012, 6:50 PM
That thread helped me get my first pistol, an XDm 9mm 5.25 Competition. :)

There are fewer details on revolvers, though. The FAQ mentions revolvers and that it's essentially the same, but I will have to search for more info.

I am still not sure of the logistics, though, of trying to buy, say, a 1970s revolver off Gunbroker and then finding some way to get it SA'd for CA importation.

I guess I would have to talk to the FFL, first, and perhaps they could buy the gun, and then I'd buy it from them after they SA'd it? What revolvers does this work for?

Damn California.

I'm a little cranky right now. :mad:

BomarFab
08-23-2012, 7:04 PM
I had this same issue trying to get a Smith & Wesson revolver. However I found a great shop in GA that had the one I wanted in amazing shape, and on top of that they where knowledgeable and willing to do the single action conversion for $20. Which included shipping the spare parts to me separately. The only difficult part was finding an ffl that wanted to transfer it within a few hundred miles. I ended up finding a great guy doing it out of his house that was up to date on the roster exemption laws.

StormRaven
08-23-2012, 7:12 PM
I'm glad it worked out for you... that's awesome to find a seller like that.

Unfortunately, with vintage Colts, it's a little different. I'm no smith, but I've read most people don't want to open them up since they were hand fitted and smithing them is a PITA. There are very few original replacement parts as well. But, who knows... if I get lucky and find knowledgeable people on both ends of the transaction....

*sighs* Well, California is a big state. I'm sure someday I will be able to find what I want. As time marches on, more become legal, as well, under C+R. Guess I'll just have to take frequent weekend trips up to my favorite gun shop that carries consignments and where I found my '65 OP.

JTROKS
08-23-2012, 7:41 PM
6" stainless Colt Pythons are on the roster.

StormRaven
08-23-2012, 7:47 PM
6" stainless Colt Pythons are on the roster.

So it is... better than nothing, I suppose, should push come to shove. I want a 4" but that's encouraging.

Thanks for the small cloudbreak.

Lifeon2whls
08-23-2012, 8:11 PM
JUST peed in you Cheerios??? Man I wasn't even legal when CA peed in mine..

StormRaven
08-23-2012, 8:15 PM
JUST peed in you Cheerios??? Man I wasn't even legal when CA peed in mine..

LOL! Well, I've only been here since 2000, and seeing as how I just got into shooting last year, this is really the first time (other than SB249) that the restrictive firearms laws have ticked me off.

Well, there was the time when I wanted to get my first gun, only to find out it wasn't on the safe gun list. It was then I researched a way to GET WHAT I WANTED, and that led me here. I got my XDm, and the rest is history. ;)

Quiet
08-23-2012, 8:21 PM
There is always the single-action revolver exemption. [PC 32100(a)]

Revolver needs to have a 3" or greater barrel length, a 7.5" or greater overall length and a capacity of 5-10 rounds.

While the revolver is out-of-state it is modified to operate as a single-action only. It can then be transferred under the single-action revolver exemption.
After 4473/DROS + 10 day wait, the revolver can then be legally modified back to it's original operating method.

Several calgunners have gone this method to get off-roster S&W double-action revolvers.


Penal Code 32100
(a) Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to a single-action revolver that has at least a five-cartridge capacity with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least seven and one-half inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least seven and one-half inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18 of the United States Code.

sofbak
08-24-2012, 6:31 AM
Is an intrastate, interfamilial transfer an option? If you have a parent or legal age child in another state, that would work.......

Rorge Retson
08-24-2012, 7:11 AM
All you need to do is find an FFL who will import it into the state with a C&R exemption.

Yes, there is an 'official' C&R roster, but there are other avenues for getting it under C&R...for those items, they need to:

"3. Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Full text: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#definition

StormRaven
08-24-2012, 10:44 AM
Is an intrastate, interfamilial transfer an option? If you have a parent or legal age child in another state, that would work.......

I had considered this. My mother does live out of state. But the state she lives in isn't very gun friendly either. Still, if push comes to shove...

All you need to do is find an FFL who will import it into the state with a C&R exemption.

Yes, there is an 'official' C&R roster, but there are other avenues for getting it under C&R...for those items, they need to:

"3. Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Full text: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#definition

I read that, but wasn't sure how I could get it to apply. I guess it depends on the seller, but that does seem like another way... only thing is, who determines if a 1972 Colt is for historical purposes or not? For me, it is. My attraction to the vintage revolvers is strictly because they ARE old, and part of law enforcement history, among other reasons.

POLICESTATE
08-24-2012, 10:59 AM
California pees in everyone's Cheerios.

Rorge Retson
08-24-2012, 11:39 AM
I read that, but wasn't sure how I could get it to apply. I guess it depends on the seller, but that does seem like another way... only thing is, who determines if a 1972 Colt is for historical purposes or not? For me, it is. My attraction to the vintage revolvers is strictly because they ARE old, and part of law enforcement history, among other reasons.

Actually, it depends on the receiving FFL, who would be accepting it under C&R rules. I am trying to get a special gun in this manner right now, but have yet to find an FFL who will do it (it is not nearly as old and historical as your gun, so you should have a much easier time).

morrcarr67
08-24-2012, 2:02 PM
I read that, but wasn't sure how I could get it to apply. I guess it depends on the seller, but that does seem like another way... only thing is, who determines if a 1972 Colt is for historical purposes or not? For me, it is. My attraction to the vintage revolvers is strictly because they ARE old, and part of law enforcement history, among other reasons.




Actually, it depends on the receiving FFL, who would be accepting it under C&R rules. I am trying to get a special gun in this manner right now, but have yet to find an FFL who will do it (it is not nearly as old and historical as your gun, so you should have a much easier time).

I can pretty much say without a doubt you will not get this one via rule 3 for C&R exemption.

Rorge Retson
08-24-2012, 4:50 PM
I can pretty much say without a doubt you will not get this one via rule 3 for C&R exemption.

Why is that?

morrcarr67
08-24-2012, 6:35 PM
Why is that?

They are not rare, bizarre or novel.

Rorge Retson
08-24-2012, 6:42 PM
They are not rare, bizarre or novel.

So a 40-year-old revolver is not rare? There are tons and tons of them out there?

morrcarr67
08-24-2012, 7:16 PM
So a 40-year-old revolver is not rare? There are tons and tons of them out there?

No it's not rare.

To be considered rare it would have had to have been built in limited numbers for a limited time.

Take for reference the Bren Ten. It was made for only about 4 years in very limited numbers. That gun is rare and is listed by name as being C&R.

Rorge Retson
08-24-2012, 7:32 PM
No it's not rare.

To be considered rare it would have had to have been built in limited numbers for a limited time.

Take for reference the Bren Ten. It was made for only about 4 years in very limited numbers. That gun is rare and is listed by name as being C&R.

There is more than one criterion that enables an item to qualify as a Curio or Relic. One is, you make it on the list. The other three are listed in the link (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#definition) I provided - which, by definition, means they are not on the list.

Fortunately, it's not up to you. It's a judgment call on behalf of whoever decides it is a curio or relic. All the OP has to do is find an FFL willing to state as such.

morrcarr67
08-24-2012, 8:00 PM
All you need to do is find an FFL who will import it into the state with a C&R exemption.

Yes, there is an 'official' C&R roster, but there are other avenues for getting it under C&R...for those items, they need to:

"3. Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

Full text: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#definition

There is more than one criterion that enables an item to qualify as a Curio or Relic. One is, you make it on the list. The other three are listed in the link (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curios-relics.html#definition) I provided - which, by definition, means they are not on the list.

Fortunately, it's not up to you. It's a judgment call on behalf of whoever decides it is a curio or relic. All the OP has to do is find an FFL willing to state as such.

You are correct Sir. There are more than one way to get a gun classified as C&R.

IF he could get someone willing to use classification method number 3 he would be very lucky.

I would give you 10 to 1 odds that he would never get an everyday run of the mill 1970's Colt Trooper Mk III classified as C&R with this rule.

Rorge Retson
08-24-2012, 9:24 PM
I would give you 10 to 1 odds that he would never get an everyday run of the mill 1970's Colt Trooper Mk III classified as C&R with this rule.

All he needs is that '1'. ;)