PDA

View Full Version : Made in USA 1911s


joemoia
08-23-2012, 7:27 AM
I have a friend who wants to purchase a 1911 but wants one made in the USA. I believe these are all manufactured in the USA:

Remington
Colt
Smith & Wesson
Ruger
Magnum Research
Auto-Ord
Kimber
Springfield Armory

I haven't included the custom mfrs like Baer, Brown, Wilson as I believe the max he could go is around $1K. Are there any other USA mfrs I've missed or are any of the above NOT made in the USA?

TIA

Joe M

gatesbox
08-23-2012, 7:30 AM
Some springfields are made in Brazil, the Mil-Spec is one I can think of.... Not sure about others.

Brandon04GT
08-23-2012, 7:35 AM
All Springfield forgings begin in Brazil....some have more work done stateside and are finished here. He'll probably be happy with any entry level Springfield with an NM frame.

BajaJames83
08-23-2012, 7:39 AM
yeah you can pretty much knock springfield off that list as for USA made. They are finished here though

General
08-23-2012, 7:44 AM
Top of the line: Guncrafter Industries (http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/about.shtml)

Bartin
08-23-2012, 7:50 AM
Top of the line: Guncrafter Industries (http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/about.shtml)

did you read the post?

Might be able to get into an STI (above the Spartan line which is assembled in the phillipines) for around $1000 if you're lucky

Oldnoob
08-23-2012, 7:52 AM
I could be wrong but Sig 1911 should be USA made.

Echidin
08-23-2012, 7:54 AM
I could be wrong but Sig 1911 should be USA made.

You would be correct.

polo.45
08-23-2012, 8:15 AM
Buy a kimber.... Made in USA. For sure!!! :)

JackRydden224
08-23-2012, 8:21 AM
OC Armory had a Dan Wesson Pointman 7 for $900 on consignment over the weekend. It's made in the US and it can be had for under $1,000. Dan Wesson guns are nicer then your Kimber and such.

OC Armory also has the Remington R1 for about $850 I believe and so does Riflegear. Both are close enough to Torrance and the guns can be had for $1,000 after tax and DROs.

Brandon04GT
08-23-2012, 8:24 AM
I don't believe the R1's are on the roster....are they on consignment or LEO only or something?

JackRydden224
08-23-2012, 8:24 AM
I don't believe the R1's are on the roster....are they on consignment or LEO only or something?

PM me :)

Old4eyes
08-23-2012, 8:25 AM
Your buddy will have to figure in the additional cost of doing a SSE if he chooses a model that is not on the approved list. That is assuming your friend is in California.

jermzzzzzzz
08-23-2012, 8:26 AM
Para Ordnance 1911s are made in NC.

joemoia
08-23-2012, 9:16 AM
Thanks for the responses. My friend lives in Vancouver Wa. This will be his first firearm purchase. He's not an enthusiast (we did do the cub scout/boy scout marksmanship merit badge thing as kids) but wants to exercise his 2A rights. He appreciates mechanical craftsmanship (he collects old wind-up watches) and he asked me for suggestions as to what to buy. I told him if I were going to buy only one firearm it would be a M1911 as an example of fine American mechanical craftsmanship and its historical significance. He is a big proponent of "made in the USA" products so I want to be sure I lead him in the right direction.

Joe M

redcliff
08-23-2012, 9:20 AM
Thanks for the responses. My friend lives in Vancouver Wa. This will be his first firearm purchase. He's not an enthusiast (we did do the cub scout/boy scout marksmanship merit badge thing as kids) but wants to exercise his 2A rights. He appreciates mechanical craftsmanship (he collects old wind-up watches) and he asked me for suggestions as to what to buy. I told him if I were going to buy only one firearm it would be a M1911 as an example of fine American mechanical craftsmanship and its historical significance. He is a big proponent of "made in the USA" products so I want to be sure I lead him in the right direction.

Joe M

Given your parameters I'd select a Colt; it's a name he'll know (and lifetime warranty).

JackRydden224
08-23-2012, 9:25 AM
Thanks for the responses. My friend lives in Vancouver Wa. This will be his first firearm purchase. He's not an enthusiast (we did do the cub scout/boy scout marksmanship merit badge thing as kids) but wants to exercise his 2A rights. He appreciates mechanical craftsmanship (he collects old wind-up watches) and he asked me for suggestions as to what to buy. I told him if I were going to buy only one firearm it would be a M1911 as an example of fine American mechanical craftsmanship and its historical significance. He is a big proponent of "made in the USA" products so I want to be sure I lead him in the right direction.

Joe M

Given your parameters I'd select a Colt; it's a name he'll know (and lifetime warranty).

I second redcliff's suggestion and I would add Ruger and Remington to the list. All three are American firearm manufactures with history behind them. He can't really go wrong with any of the three. Colt might be a bit more expensive compared to Ruger and Rem.

joemoia
08-23-2012, 9:41 AM
My first thought was a Colt (used), but I want to give him all the info I can. Buds is currently selling the Rem for about $630 + shp.

tdyoung1958
08-23-2012, 9:52 AM
Sigs and Para are now made (assembled) in the US

most use parts that are made elsewhere anymore . . . thank you USSWA

JackRydden224
08-23-2012, 10:25 AM
My first thought was a Colt (used), but I want to give him all the info I can. Buds is currently selling the Rem for about $630 + shp.

If he is not the enthusiast you said then the Rem R1 might be a better option compared to the Colt simply because of the price. From what I understand the R1 is a faithful reproduction of what Rem made back in the 1920's. I've seen those in person and they are great looking guns.

joemoia
08-24-2012, 9:54 AM
My friend is going to check with some LGS's, but he is leaning towards getting the Rem R1. Thanks again for all the responses

Joe M

KandyRedCoi
08-24-2012, 10:02 AM
K I M B E R

Plisk
08-24-2012, 10:14 AM
Springfield shouldn't be on the list. All the forgings are cast in Brazil and some of them are finish cut and assembled in the US, others are done in Brazil. Sig Sauer needs to be added to the list.

DArBad
08-24-2012, 11:03 AM
The Kimbers are my recommendation.

AeroEngi
08-24-2012, 11:56 AM
Springfield shouldn't be on the list. All the forgings are cast in Brazil and some of them are finish cut and assembled in the US, others are done in Brazil. Sig Sauer needs to be added to the list.

I thought Springfield forges their frames/slides from a billet of material or am I wrong? Do they cast their frames/slides and then forge them into shape?

Tee Why
08-24-2012, 1:23 PM
Thanks for the responses. My friend lives in Vancouver Wa. This will be his first firearm purchase. He's not an enthusiast (we did do the cub scout/boy scout marksmanship merit badge thing as kids) but wants to exercise his 2A rights. He appreciates mechanical craftsmanship (he collects old wind-up watches) and he asked me for suggestions as to what to buy. I told him if I were going to buy only one firearm it would be a M1911 as an example of fine American mechanical craftsmanship and its historical significance. He is a big proponent of "made in the USA" products so I want to be sure I lead him in the right direction.

Joe M

If that's the case, I'd go with a classic looking colt.

Legasat
08-24-2012, 2:13 PM
Personally, I don't think you can do better than a used Dan Wesson.

roushstage3
08-24-2012, 2:19 PM
Kimber, Dan Wesson, Nighthhawk, Les Bear.

All great and all american.

Cyc Wid It
08-24-2012, 2:47 PM
Kimber, Dan Wesson, Nighthhawk, Les Bear.

All great and all american.

One of these is not like the others...

TripleThreat
08-24-2012, 3:00 PM
K I M B E R

This.

InGrAM
08-24-2012, 3:57 PM
One of these is not like the others...

Lol Yeah, something is off there.

KandyRedCoi
08-24-2012, 4:01 PM
Kimbers are just like DW, Nighthawk and LB, apart from a few MIM parts, hance the lower price tag ... get real people u know its true, dont hate.

FUBAR
08-24-2012, 4:10 PM
If he's only gonna have one handgun, spend some cash and get a Les Baer Premier II. Probably the best buy for a semi custom gun.

Cyc Wid It
08-24-2012, 4:34 PM
Kimbers are just like DW, Nighthawk and LB, apart from a few MIM parts, hance the lower price tag ... get real people u know its true, dont hate.

If it makes you feel better you can omit the hand fitting, testing, and accuracy - oh yeah, and not having that horrible schwartz safety. Helps to skip the crappy logo too.

Plisk
08-24-2012, 6:42 PM
I thought Springfield forges their frames/slides from a billet of material or am I wrong? Do they cast their frames/slides and then forge them into shape?

They are independent cast, meaning they are cast in a way that reduce the number of machines cuts necessary to complete the frame. If done right, it's fine but in some cases when the QC begins to slip some of the tolerances existing in the finished product are determined by the cast itself. It can create problems sometimes, this is also why Springfield is significantly reducing the number of Brazil finished weapons coming in for sale.

redcliff
08-24-2012, 7:03 PM
They are independent cast, meaning they are cast in a way that reduce the number of machines cuts necessary to complete the frame. If done right, it's fine but in some cases when the QC begins to slip some of the tolerances existing in the finished product are determined by the cast itself. It can create problems sometimes, this is also why Springfield is significantly reducing the number of Brazil finished weapons coming in for sale.

Springfield 1911 frames are made from forgings by IMBEL. Forgings are made from heated ingots of steel hammered into a rough shape by many thousands of pounds of pressure, sometimes with the use of an impression die, which are then finish machined in multiple steps. Some of the advantages of forgings are the grain structure and lack of voids.

Can you explain your "independent cast" comment please, as I don't understand the reference or how it applies to SA 1911 frames.

KandyRedCoi
08-24-2012, 7:10 PM
If it makes you feel better you can omit the hand fitting, testing, and accuracy - oh yeah, and not having that horrible schwartz safety. Helps to skip the crappy logo too.

i did but hand fitting is trivial there are problems with higher end pistols too, the Schwartz safety is preference and so is the finish, theres plenty of armorers out there that can refinish a firearm that are quite affordable, and from my understanding there are things that are still "missed" even when test firing said pistols....i mean dont get me wrong those others are good pistols too, but a budget is a budget and a criteria that some of us may not care for somebody else does, i merely suggested a company that fit his criteria and from my ow. personal experience has been top notch

and yes the kimber lacking those amenities is why it is considerably cheaper than the others mentioned, but it is also still 100% made in the US of A

Plisk
08-24-2012, 7:23 PM
Springfield 1911 frames are made from forgings by IMBEL. Forgings are made from heated ingots of steel hammered into a rough shape by many thousands of pounds of pressure, sometimes with the use of an impression die, which are then finish machined in multiple steps. Some of the advantages of forgings are the grain structure and lack of voids.

Can you explain your "independent cast" comment please, as I don't understand the reference or how it applies to SA 1911 frames.

I'll have to go back through my research and confirm how SAs frames are made.

Independent casts are where the frames are made from mold casts then milled properly. Casts come out with the same general shape as a forged frame, but they go one step further with Independent casts. The cast has more shape put into it that actually requires less machines cuts to complete.

redcliff
08-24-2012, 7:28 PM
I'll have to go back through my research and confirm how SAs frames are made.

Independent casts are where the frames are made from mold casts then milled properly. Casts come out with the same general shape as a forged frame, but they go one step further with Independent casts. The cast has more shape put into it that actually requires less machines cuts to complete.

Fair enough, I think you'll find that SA 1911 frames are forged. Thanks for the response.

jessegpresley
08-25-2012, 12:01 AM
Kimbers are just like DW, Nighthawk and LB, apart from a few MIM parts, hance the lower price tag ... get real people u know its true, dont hate.

Kimbers are nothing like Nighthawk or Les Baer.

unusedusername
08-25-2012, 12:43 AM
Sig 1911s are made completely in the US.

They are not a Nighthawk or LB, but they are nicer then Kimber IMHO.

pipboy
08-25-2012, 8:36 AM
Kimbers are just like DW, Nighthawk and LB, apart from a few MIM parts, hance the lower price tag ... get real people u know its true, dont hate.

Wow...My mind is officially blown.

Plisk
09-12-2012, 11:36 PM
Springfield 1911 frames are made from forgings by IMBEL. Forgings are made from heated ingots of steel hammered into a rough shape by many thousands of pounds of pressure, sometimes with the use of an impression die, which are then finish machined in multiple steps. Some of the advantages of forgings are the grain structure and lack of voids.

Can you explain your "independent cast" comment please, as I don't understand the reference or how it applies to SA 1911 frames.

I had forgotten I was suppose to so my follow up reading about the Springfield frames. I went back through my books and confirmed with a few of my very wise professional contacts in our industry.

The Imbel facility in Brazil does Independent Casts for their slides and frames. The process in which they do this is they take a wax positive of the finished part (either slide or frame) and do consecutive dips into an appropriate material. Typically its a ceramic material. It is dipped similar to a candle until it had built up enough material to handle the metal form. The die is then supported properly, typically placed in sand then the liquid metal is poured in melting the wax and filling the mold. Once it's hardened the cast is broken and you're left with basically a 80% frame. The external tolerances are essentially complete, then it gets shipped to Illinois or another part of the Imbel plant where it gets put into a mill and gets finished cut.

I should have remembered this instance when I made my original post, but even with my MC Operator I had first hand proof that they are cast frames. A casting bubble was found under my feedramp that was then dremeled out, TIG/MIG welded up and re-ramped by Springfield. It was a pretty minor bubble, but it still caught the rim of a few cartridges.

Casting bubbles are virtually impossible on forged frames and are nearly as impossible on billet cut frames as well.