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Kinsel83
08-22-2012, 5:44 AM
I was watching 'Stars earn Stripes' on some cable channel and I heard them mention that the M4 will be or will possibly be replaced. The guy said 'Beretta'. But apparently there is some competition. *The article said this is only for the Army*

When I did a search, this wiki article came up.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Carbine#section_1

What do you guys think about the M4 being replaced? I have no experience with the M4, so I will not comment.

bombadillo
08-22-2012, 5:47 AM
And the wiki said essentially nothing. Meh, probably not going anywhere for awhile.

Kinsel83
08-22-2012, 5:52 AM
And the wiki said essentially nothing. Meh, probably not going anywhere for awhile.

Budget issues you think?

I have to say I agree with you. With our 'deficit problems', I don't see this happening.

m03
08-22-2012, 6:13 AM
This may help: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=106985

In short, the carbines being tested are:

• Adcor BEAR Elite
• Beretta ARX-160
• Colt Enhanced M4
• FN FNAC (modified SCAR)
• HK416
• Remington ACR

There wont be much other news shared about it until one has been picked, since it's a tight-lipped sort of operation.

C.W.M.V.
08-22-2012, 6:33 AM
I hope this pans out better than the XM-8 fiasco. Damn M-16 family needs to be sent packing.

bombadillo
08-22-2012, 7:06 AM
There are a lot out there, but the M4, and entire AR family of weapons is still a really well built, solid platform. They function well, do the job, are accurate, can be modified and changed into virtually anything you want, and even though its an "old" platform, it works for today's modern warrior.

AfghanVetOrcutt
08-22-2012, 8:49 AM
I've used em for 6 years and did 2 tours in Afghanistan with them. Most of our engagements were 800m+ so the m4 didn't have the range, I rarely even fired mine. Most used weapons were the 240B/L, M2 .50cal and Mk19. The only thing I would like to change is caliber but then we have to add more weight, it's trade offs. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

safewaysecurity
08-22-2012, 8:54 AM
My bet is on either the ARX 160 or the hk416. I think the ARX is rhetoric best though. I've wanted one since I first heard about it shot show 2011.

ewarmour
08-22-2012, 9:04 AM
The Remington ACR looks pretty fricking cool - totally modular and nearly tool less.

Fully ambidextrous controls. Being a lefty, I like that.
The barrel and but stock removal/replacement is slick as ****...

I need to take a closer look at the ACR.

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/Firearms/Carbines/ACR.aspx

frankm
08-22-2012, 9:26 AM
SCAR 6.8. Get with it!

FMJBT
08-22-2012, 9:34 AM
I don't see the need for a full replacement of the M-4. Possibly a program to enhance the platform without replacing the entire family maybe. I think the biggest problem with the M-16/M-4 family is the ammunition rather than the weapon itself. Switching to a heavier round like the MK 262 would increase the effective range and leathality of the weapon in both carbine and rifle configurations. This has already been proven in Afghanistan and Iraq. Rifles specifically designed for the MK 262 like the SDM-R and SPR have proven capable out to 700-800 meters. It would be hard to improve upon that without switching to a larger frame weapon like the SCAR H or SR-25.

The War Wagon
08-22-2012, 9:40 AM
This may help: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=106985

In short, the carbines being tested are:

Adcor BEAR Elite
Beretta ARX-160
Colt Enhanced M4
FN FNAC (modified SCAR)
HK416
Remington ACR

There wont be much other news shared about it until one has been picked, since it's a tight-lipped sort of operation.

And the SAME thing will happen, as happened in ther 1992 trials - a Colt, with MORE bells & whistles will win.

NOT that a plain OLD Colt - or a dressed up one - is 'bad.' I just don't see ANY of those rifles replacing it!

TheExiled
08-22-2012, 10:08 AM
You mean the old OICW?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective_Individual_Combat_Weapon

Ripon83
08-22-2012, 10:16 AM
Just like the 1911 - to which they are going back too in small numbers - but still going back too.


There are a lot out there, but the M4, and entire AR family of weapons is still a really well built, solid platform. They function well, do the job, are accurate, can be modified and changed into virtually anything you want, and even though its an "old" platform, it works for today's modern warrior.

SilverTauron
08-22-2012, 10:41 AM
Should the M4 be replaced? Doubtlessly there are better platforms out there in terms of functional ability.

Alas, the military does not buy equipment based on function. Whether or not the M4 is replaced depends on which gun firm has the better legal team. Whoever's lawyers are better will get the contract, and that's what the troops will carry irregardless of the actual merits of the weapon.

blazeaglory
08-22-2012, 11:28 AM
Why not keep the M4 but upgrade to the 300 blackout?

AfghanVetOrcutt
08-22-2012, 11:34 AM
Why not keep the M4 but upgrade to the 300 blackout?

That would make production skyrocket and the rounds would be cheaper to buy! I'd even be happy with 5.45, I've heard the ballistics are better but I'm not 100% up to speed with that. 6.8 would make too much sense, the military doesn't make sense.

Army
08-22-2012, 12:44 PM
The M16/M4 family is fine, effective, and battle proven. While a heavier bullet would be nice in some instances, I advocate we return to the 55gr and 1-12" twist for better terminal effect, and using the newer modern powders to up the speed with little pressure increases.

Kinsel83
08-22-2012, 3:15 PM
I need to look into those rifles that are going up against the M4. Never heard of them. Im out of the loop lol.

bacon_lover
08-22-2012, 3:24 PM
The rifle in that episode was a Barrett, not a Beretta.

POLICESTATE
08-22-2012, 3:28 PM
IF we ditch the AR style platform I would go with the m14 ebr style instead. 7.62mm bullet, great range, battle-proven cartridge and a solid platform, just with an update stock and thus capabilities.

If you want something a little lighter but also battle-proven platform and ammo then let's just go with an AK 47 :D

I know, I just blasphemed. :43:

morfeeis
08-22-2012, 3:33 PM
whatever it's replaced with it better be American made.....

blazeaglory
08-22-2012, 3:57 PM
Im starting to like the ACR platform. Easily modified to adapt to any situation.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/remington_acr.jpg&imgrefurl=http://soldiersystems.net/2009/06/02/remington-acr/&h=516&w=400&sz=54&tbnid=ngJAjPxl8K3TRM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=70&zoom=1&usg=__9jNrSK45rNUCQcNO7rKPAXctOzo=&docid=P01gOD4QW7E71M&sa=X&ei=83A1UJm-EKeBiwLY4YCoAg&ved=0CCwQ9QEwAg&dur=1140

SilverTauron
08-22-2012, 4:06 PM
whatever it's replaced with it better be American made.....

That ship sailed a long time ago. FN makes the M249 and certain contract M4 carbines.

frankm
08-22-2012, 4:16 PM
The M16/M4 family is fine, effective, and battle proven. While a heavier bullet would be nice in some instances, I advocate we return to the 55gr and 1-12" twist for better terminal effect, and using the newer modern powders to up the speed with little pressure increases.

Better have a 20" barrel then.

BucDan
08-22-2012, 4:17 PM
I thought lwrc was also in the race?

Quiet
08-22-2012, 4:27 PM
I thought lwrc was also in the race?

KAC SR-16
LWRC M-6A4
Robinson Armament XCR
S&W M&P-4

All the above were eliminated or withdrawn from the competition during phase 1 testing.

MXRider
08-22-2012, 4:28 PM
IF we ditch the AR style platform I would go with the m14 ebr style instead. 7.62mm bullet, great range, battle-proven cartridge and a solid platform, just with an update stock and thus capabilities.

If you want something a little lighter but also battle-proven platform and ammo then let's just go with an AK 47 :D

I know, I just blasphemed. :43:

The EBR is a piece of **** and almost everyone who was issued one has hated it. It was an attempt at bringing a Korean war era rifle into the 21st century and it failed. See FNH Scar 17, LMT MWS, KAC M110 etc.

That ship sailed a long time ago. FN makes the M249 and certain contract M4 carbines.

They are made right here in the USA, Fredericksburg, VA if I remember correctly.

BucDan
08-22-2012, 4:45 PM
WHAT?! My beloved KAC SR-15(don't you mean SR-16?) failed?! I guess I should no longer own it since it failed military testing :P

Quiet
08-22-2012, 6:53 PM
WHAT?! My beloved KAC SR-15(don't you mean SR-16?) failed?! I guess I should no longer own it since it failed military testing :P

Yeah, it's SR-16, not SR-15.

The four did not advance to phase 2 testing, because they did not have the production capabilities to fulfill the contract if they had won.


Side note...
The US Army has stated that if the winner of the competition was not a significant improvement over the M-4A1 Carbine, that they would retain the M-4A1 Carbine.

Seems to me that the US Army is just "kicking the tires" to see what's out there and not really interested in a replacement.

k1dude
08-22-2012, 7:19 PM
In addition to platform they should be looking at caliber. Caliber is probably far more important than platform at this juncture.

The 6.5 Grendel has the same ballistics and range as the .308 with less recoil and lighter weight. No changes to the mag well and weight of the M4 platform are needed. For the long engagement distances of Afghanistan, the 6.5 Grendel would be ideal. It also does just as well as the 7.62 x 39 against barriers like the cover found in Iraq.

MXRider
08-22-2012, 9:13 PM
I doubt they will be switching from the 5.56 caliber considering the logistics and cost of implementing a new caliber.

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