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sgtjosh
08-14-2012, 11:40 AM
I took my kids to Kaiser Permanente in La Mesa for their annual physical. The screening form is attached. See question number six. My answer was handwritten. It stated: "None of your damn business."

I complained to the office manager at the conclusion of my sons visit.

I stated that firearms are not a health concern. I pointed out that I was not asked if I owned an automobile which is much more likely be a source of injury for my child. They did not ask if any felons resided in the home. I explained that I was not asked if I had exercised my first, fourth, or fifth amendment rights within the home.

I just received a call back from Dr Louis Luevanos. Dr. Luevanos runs the pediatric department. He was very patronizing and most unhelpful. I explained that I was unhappy Kaiser was furthering the American Medical Associations narrative that firearms constitute a public health hazard. He refused to give me a direct call back number. The number on my caller ID was 619-528-3300. Please call him and explain the error of his ways.

4647 Zion Ave
San Diego, CA 92120
(619) 528-5000 (Office)

DrDavid
08-14-2012, 12:04 PM
Take it as a moment where you can educate the doctor...

BlindRacer
08-14-2012, 12:09 PM
I took my kids to Kaiser Permanente in La Mesa for their annual physical. The screening form is attached. See question number six. My answer was handwritten. It stated: "None of your damn business."

I complained to the office manager at the conclusion of my sons visit.

I stated that firearms are not a health concern. I pointed out that I was not asked if I owned an automobile which is much more likely be a source of injury for my child. They did not ask if any felons resided in the home. I explained that I was not asked if I had exercised my first, fourth, or fifth amendment rights within the home.

I just received a call back from Dr Louis Luevanos. Dr. Luevanos runs the pediatric department. He was very patronizing and most unhelpful. I explained that I was unhappy Kaiser was furthering the American Medical Associations narrative that firearms constitute a public health hazard. He refused to give me a direct call back number. The number on my caller ID was 619-528-3300. Please call him and explain the error of his ways.

4647 Zion Ave
San Diego, CA 92120
(619) 528-5000 (Office)

I too have Kaiser, and two youngsters. It might be a little late, but when it comes to things like this, it's better to be polite, and leave it blank. Like you said, it's none of their business. However, having a patient go off on them, and refuse to answer a question about guns, probably doesn't bode to well. They may see it as a dangerous situation for your child, and contact CPS. They aren't federal agents either, so to say you do not have firearms wouldn't be against the law either. I'm pretty sure I left it blank when I filled out those forms. Never had been questioned about it.

If you want to take up the issue of them perpetuating the AMA's lies, then it may be better to do in a separate situation than your child's check-ups and forms. The Dr's aren't going to be able to do anything about the forms anyways.

Hopefully it's not too late to come across a bit more respectful. It sounds like you went off on them a bit too much, so hopefully they will still insure you.

NoJoke
08-14-2012, 12:10 PM
Everyone needs to speak out!

Eventually the doc's will get the message and not want to get into politics.

They tend to avoid politics.

BlindRacer
08-14-2012, 12:13 PM
Take it as a moment where you can educate the doctor...

Yes, if you already brought it up within the office, then they most likely know that you own at least one gun. So talking it over with the Dr may be a good idea.

I also think I heard somewhere, that many Dr's were actually gun enthusiasts. Don't know how reliable that info is, but I thought I heard something along those lines.

Most people are indifferent to guns if they've never shot one before. There aren't as many hardcore anti's out there as it seems. I'm sure the Dr's wouldn't have cared if you said yes on the form. The only thing that may have been brought up about them, was asking you if you kept them safe, so that your child can't accidentally access a loaded gun. Other than that, they probably wouldn't care.

tuolumnejim
08-14-2012, 12:16 PM
I too have Kaiser, and two youngsters. It might be a little late, but when it comes to things like this, it's better to be polite, and leave it blank. Like you said, it's none of their business. However, having a patient go off on them, and refuse to answer a question about guns, probably doesn't bode to well. They may see it as a dangerous situation for your child, and contact CPS. They aren't federal agents either, so to say you do not have firearms wouldn't be against the law either. I'm pretty sure I left it blank when I filled out those forms. Never had been questioned about it.

If you want to take up the issue of them perpetuating the AMA's lies, then it may be better to do in a separate situation than your child's check-ups and forms. The Dr's aren't going to be able to do anything about the forms anyways.

Hopefully it's not too late to come across a bit more respectful. It sounds like you went off on them a bit too much, so hopefully they will still insure you.

I can't do that, when I see someone acting like an *** I feel I should tell them so they might look at their own actions.

BlindRacer
08-14-2012, 12:26 PM
I can't do that, when I see someone acting like an *** I feel I should tell them so they might look at their own actions.

If there was a specific person, then maybe. But this was a question on a form, written in some corporate office. Yelling at doctors/nurses/managers/etc isn't going to do much. They aren't the people who are responsible for that question. However, they could be the person responsible for reporting you, and ultimately terminating your insurance with them if you aren't acting appropriately.

I don't agree with the question either, but there is a time and place for raising your concerns, and also raising them to the correct people/department.

fpeel
08-14-2012, 12:33 PM
Good for you, though I don't bother trying to educate "educated" idiots. It's a waste of time because they already know the truth.

"Skip any questions that do not apply."

If it were me they would have received a blank form back as barely a handful of the questions asked are a physicians direct concern, such as those related to allergic reactions, potential exposure to communicable diseases and genetic predispositions. These are topics I would have already explored with their primary physician. The rest of the questions are an intrusion into the private affairs of the family.

"This information is confidential."

Damn straight, and it would have stayed that way. The nanny state can butt out.

Anchors
08-14-2012, 12:35 PM
I would have done the same thing except I would have written "this information of private and irrelevant to the health of my child".

Just remain calm and firm.

Ryan in SD
08-14-2012, 12:40 PM
Mind boggling.

Kukuforguns
08-14-2012, 12:42 PM
I answer this question truthfully: "There are no firearms accessible by children in the house." The doctors have never shown any interest in following up to obtain more information.

I am extremely happy with Kaiser and wish I were a member (my children have access through my wife's insurance). Kaiser promotes preventive care, makes their doctors available via email, has an efficient appointment process, eliminates the need for running all around town for diagnostic tests, etc.

I do not expect everyone to share my views. I do expect health care providers to treat me and my family with respect -- and that is exactly the experience I have had at Kaiser.

sgtjosh
08-14-2012, 12:42 PM
I too have Kaiser, and two youngsters. It might be a little late, but when it comes to things like this, it's better to be polite, and leave it blank. Like you said, it's none of their business. However, having a patient go off on them, and refuse to answer a question about guns, probably doesn't bode to well. They may see it as a dangerous situation for your child, and contact CPS. They aren't federal agents either, so to say you do not have firearms wouldn't be against the law either. I'm pretty sure I left it blank when I filled out those forms. Never had been questioned about it.

If you want to take up the issue of them perpetuating the AMA's lies, then it may be better to do in a separate situation than your child's check-ups and forms. The Dr's aren't going to be able to do anything about the forms anyways.

Hopefully it's not too late to come across a bit more respectful. It sounds like you went off on them a bit too much, so hopefully they will still insure you.

get in line sheep...silence is consent

bloodhawke83
08-14-2012, 12:43 PM
Write in nerf gun.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

kaligaran
08-14-2012, 12:45 PM
I don't have Kaiser, but i did go to a Palo Alto Medical Foundation office for a general practitioner after moving here and this was also on their questionniare.

I had never seen it before.

1859sharps
08-14-2012, 12:49 PM
I would HIGHLY suggest NOT loosing your temper with a doctor that is supporting this kind of questionnaire... you will just be feeding their preconceptions.

I would simply state that your are offended that exercising your civil rights is considered a health risk. if it's an option for you, tell them you are taking your business else where if they continue to view civil rights and exercising them as a health risk. And YES, health care is a business. loosing sight of that is a large part of how we have the health care mess we have now.

Kukuforguns
08-14-2012, 12:54 PM
get in line sheep...
6 posts? Really? :smilielol5:

sgtjosh
08-14-2012, 1:07 PM
6 posts? Really? :smilielol5:

Yes...wise men listen more than they speak.

My response was appropriate...lose gun rights much?

tryzubconsulting
08-14-2012, 1:11 PM
They aren't so bad. One guy openly carried his gun into Kaiser to get his hand operated on and the doctor didn't even blink.

sgtjosh
08-14-2012, 1:15 PM
I would HIGHLY suggest NOT loosing your temper with a doctor that is supporting this kind of questionnaire... you will just be feeding their preconceptions.

I would simply state that your are offended that exercising your civil rights is considered a health risk. if it's an option for you, tell them you are taking your business else where if they continue to view civil rights and exercising them as a health risk. And YES, health care is a business. loosing sight of that is a large part of how we have the health care mess we have now.

Who said anything about losing my temper?

I agree about health care being a business. My open enrollment is in December. I will be exploring other options.

OleCuss
08-14-2012, 1:17 PM
Probably doesn't do any good to complain to Kaiser. They respond to the marketplace so that is where you have to do your work.

You contact your employer and tell them that Kaiser is sticking their nose where it doesn't belong and they should consider not contracting with them. When you have the chance to change insurance, make the change and tell Kaiser that one of the factors was because of their intrusiveness in matters where they needn't go.

Or just don't answer the question? Or say that if firearms are around your kids, they are secured (don't let them know that your 12 year old kid is securing the firearm by keeping it on their person while at the range).

But calling up the head doc just isn't going to do a cotton-picking thing. You are still putting money into their coffers every month and that is what Kaiser is mostly going to be looking at.

Kaiser has some serious financial issues. Their pensions are grossly underfunded and that means that they're going to have to figure out how to have more enrollees and spend less on them while still meeting certain artificially set quality standards. They are going to be increasingly sensitive to people leaving because of their policies.

But if you keep getting enrolled, they aren't going to care too much what you have to say.

POLICESTATE
08-14-2012, 1:23 PM
They ask about guns, but I don't see them asking about POOLS.

Whatever.

I just answer "no" I don't want a mark in my file saying "uppity gun owner"


Look at the YES NO column, notice that the "positive" answers are on one side, the ones to "follow up" on are on the other.

Interesting.

Kukuforguns
08-14-2012, 1:26 PM
Yes...wise men listen more than they speak.

My response was appropriate...loose gun rights much?

Loose lips sink ships. Some men know how to spell "lose." Wise men listen to advice, even critical advice.

Your response was not appropriate. You made a personal attack on another member, which is inappropriate behavior:

2) Political discussion is welcome, partisan bickering and insults are not.Politics are inescapable on a board such as this, however that does not mean it has to devolve in to a donnybrook every time the subject comes up. Calguns is a firearm’s enthusiast/grassroots Second Amendment site, not a Republican booster club nor a Democrat rallying point. Denigrating someone who is trying to work with us on restoring our Second Amendment rights because of party affiliation or ideological beliefs is destructive and will not be allowed. We are here to work together not tear each other down. Debate of non-Second Amendment politics is welcome if you can do it in a calm and courteous manner. If you can not your post will be removed, repeated removals will cause your account to be closed.

7) Outright insults, name calling, denigrating comments and ‘baiting’ is not allowed.Comments of this nature are not allowed, if you do not like someone simply do not post in their thread. This rule applies regardless of the root cause, be it religion, orientation or something specific to the individual. This does not refer to joking, ribbing or friendly teasing; these are things friends do. Neither does this rule give anyone free rein to be obnoxious and claim it as a specific trait. This rule refers to comments and post intended solely to offend, antagonize or hurt. If a trend appears of repeatedly posting not to add to the thread but to antagonize a particular member it will result in first a warning, then time off and finally closure of the account.

These rules can be found here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=5161807&postcount=1).

Not only was your response inappropriate, it was inaccurate. A sheep, in this context, is a person who blindly follows rules. Nothing about BlindRacer's comments indicates that this description applies to him.

Finally, I have lost just as many gun rights as have you. What's your point?

The Mongolian
08-14-2012, 1:27 PM
Hmmm. Haven't seen that on any forms when I bring my son in for his check ups... however, he is only 4 months old.

WWDHD?
08-14-2012, 1:29 PM
I totally get it how outraged you can get when officaldom starts poking around into your civil rights but I also think you got to stay cool and keep a low profile on things too. Myself and my family is simply going to put the letter "N" in the spot and they can do with it what they want. If they verbally ask what the "N" is for then we will stay silent, but polite.
Hey Op: How do you think Jack Bauer would handle this situation? I like you signature picture, very cool.

Scratch705
08-14-2012, 1:34 PM
yea that will show them that gun owners are the sensible people, by yelling and screaming at the doctor over a simple question that you can simply lie on. :rolleyes:

The Mongolian
08-14-2012, 1:41 PM
Would there be any issue if selecting yes and just rationally talking it out if there are further inquiries? Just gearing up for the future since I guess I'll be running into that question sooner or later when I bring my son in for his check-ups.

BlindRacer
08-14-2012, 1:46 PM
get in line sheep...silence is consent

That's inappropriate. Show some respect.

I didn't say to not take up the issue. I said to take it up at the correct time, in the correct place, and in the correct manor.

Yelling at the staff at the office, is like yelling at a UPS driver because you don't like the layout of the shipping label.

Flintlock Tom
08-14-2012, 2:19 PM
I would like to answer: "I keep all my guns locked up. I assume my kids keep theirs locked up as well."

Tee Why
08-14-2012, 2:21 PM
I believe it's American Academy of Pediatrics' policy that they prefer parents to not have guns at home and to ask parents about guns in the home to encourage safe storage of guns and ammunition if there is a gun in the house.
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/all-around/Pages/Where-We-Stand-Gun-Safety.aspx

Needless to say very controversial with Florida courts banning such questions.

From the Governments stats (latest I could find was 2006 but I suspect the trends are similar), most common cause of death in children 1-14 years old is "Unintentional Injury" accounting for about a third of all causes of death.
http://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa08/hstat/hsc/pages/214cm.html

Of the Unintentional injuries, Auto accidents and drowning were top two, followed by burns, suffocation, and other transportation accidents.
http://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa08/hstat/hsc/pages/215cddi.html

This 8 year study show that among those 1-19 years old, vast majority of pediatric death from firearms are due to homicides (64%), then suicides (30%), and a small portion due to accidental shootings (6%).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20498168

In terms of getting the most bang for the bucks, preventing auto accidents (child seat laws and driving safety), then drowning (pool safety), fire prevention, and then preventing suffocation may yield higher benefit to society if preventing death is the main concern. So IMO, the first question should have been do you use proper child safety restraints?, do you have a swimming pool?, do you have a fire extinguisher?, and do you know how to perform CPR? (for drowning and suffocation).

Here AAP states drowning is the leading cause of death of all children (I thought it was MVA). However, unlike guns, they don't first recommend not having swimming pools but more on pool safety.
http://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/injuries-emergencies/Pages/Drowning.aspx

So I can see the inconsistency in their approach, to dealing with health hazards, but I suspect AAP is making judgement values of swimming pools and guns by their recommendations. Physicians tend to be conservative in nature and many are gun enthusiasts/owners. I believe pediatricians are more liberal leaning and their professional culture may be more anti gun than other specialties. I suspect that if you checked yes to that question, if the doctor actually bothers to read it would merely recommend making the gun and ammo inaccessible to the child by using a lock and move on to more important things like vaccines, obesity, etc.

fiddletown
08-14-2012, 2:25 PM
Unfortunately, no doctor of mine has ever asked that question of me. I'm sorry, because I have what I think is a good answer:

"Dr. ______,

I will not answer because I believe you do not have the qualifications to assess matters of firearm safety, nor do I believe you to be qualified to instruct me on matters of firearm safety.

On the other hand, I have on the order of 300 hours of firearms training and am a certified firearms instructor in various disciplines, including home firearms safety. I am qualified to instruct you in matters of firearms safety."

I'm sorry that I haven't had a chance to use that yet.

goofcat
08-14-2012, 2:28 PM
It's Kaiser! don't yell at the poor doc who already hates his life because he is a Kaiser drone. Take it to corporate, yell at the Kaiser bean counters!

fiddletown
08-14-2012, 2:36 PM
It's Kaiser! don't yell at the poor doc who already hates his life because he is a Kaiser drone. Take it to corporate, yell at the Kaiser bean counters!Actually, a lot of doctors I've known and worked with prefer working for an outfit like Kaiser to trying to run a private practice. It can be a lot less of a hassle.

sgtjosh
08-14-2012, 2:36 PM
There was no yelling.

I spoke with the office manager and the head of pediatrics for San Diego.

Silence is consent.

sgtjosh
08-14-2012, 2:36 PM
There was no yelling.

I spoke with the office manager and the head of pediatrics for San Diego.

Silence is consent.

FalconLair
08-14-2012, 2:43 PM
Considering hospital ER's play host to all the GSW (gunshot wound) victims I can readily see and understand the negativity in their minds when it comes to firearms...on the other hand, i know a few doctors who own guns and we talk about them all the time

Asking that question on the form, in my opinion, serves no medical purpose whatsoever...It's also most likely a form in which the attending physician had nothing to do with...I would just leave it blank and move on...if futher pressed on the subject, well, I think Fiddletown just gave a damn good, well thought out response on it :)

FalconLair
08-14-2012, 2:54 PM
Actually, a lot of doctors I've known and worked with prefer working for an outfit like Kaiser to trying to run a private practice. It can be a lot less of a hassle.so true, malpractice insurance rates are keeping many doctors from going into private practice, what other avenues do these guys have, other than working for a private hospital?

prod39
08-14-2012, 3:03 PM
It's not just Kaiser. I have been asked a number of times and, my answers are dependant upon my mood. Mostly, I don't answer but, I don't tell them about surgeries from the past either. If it's pertinent, I'll tell them.
Personal information should be just that.

Supertac916
08-14-2012, 4:25 PM
There was no yelling.

I spoke with the office manager and the head of pediatrics for San Diego.

Silence is consent.

The office manager and head of pediatrics in San Diego probably can't do much. You'd be better off contacting the NRA to complain because they'll probably know more about the policy and why it's in place. I believe most pediatric departments, whether it be Kaiser, Dignity Health, Sutter, private, or UC pediatric departments will have similar questionnaires.

The vast majority of the guys I shoot with are physicians, hospital administrators, and other healthcare professionals. I believe I helped at least 50 of them last year get their CCW's. They just have to leave them in the trunks of their cars and can't bring them in the hospital due to hospital policy.

Physicians hate politics for the most part and just want to put their time in and get home to their families. They also don't want to stir up a fight with upper administration, unless the issue will negatively impact the health or quality of care to their patients.

I agree with you that it's none of their business and we need to speak up. I'll also ask my buddy who's the CEO of one of the local hospitals about the questionnaires and who mandated them because I don't believe it's just Kaiser. However, with the upcoming ObamaCare issues and the hospitals frantically trying to figure out how to stay within the guidelines. I don't think a question from a confidential form that we're not required to answer will be on the top of their list of priorities.

Personally, I just left mine blank and when the pediatrician asked I was honest. She mentioned that she has guns in her home, but they are interested in double checking to make sure gun owners have prepared their homes for children. She also mentioned that many grandparents own firearms and since they haven't had small children in the home for decades, they often times leave them accessible. I felt her answer was reasonable because after having kids many things change in our lives. We might remember to always lock our guns up, but it was a good reminder to make sure my Dad had his guns secured. He always did, but once I became a teenager I had full access to his guns. He would leave a gun in his nightstand and I made sure to remind him to put it in the lock box or safe, when my kids came over.

By the way, my Dad is a physician and is Pro 2A, CCW holder, but hates hospital politics.

go4kil
08-14-2012, 5:41 PM
i dont understand the big deal out of this? put no, yes, or leave it blank.

razorduc
08-14-2012, 5:50 PM
Ha. We do work for Kaiser and the group of project managers, construction managers, and inspectors that I work with are all gun owners (most new to the sport). Before and after the formal meetings all we talk about is guns.

Granted we're on the construction side and not the medical side.

Bruceisontarget
08-14-2012, 6:14 PM
Getting upset with medical staff is silly. They are required to ask the question by Kaiser/Permanente bureaucrats.

Eljay
08-14-2012, 6:44 PM
Those well visit questionnaires are just so that if you check in anything that isn't the "right" answer they'll chat about it as they do the exam. It's on a plastic sheet and they wipe it clean and reuse it for the next patient. For every age there are different questions. The firearm one seems to rotate through at a couple of ages - basically when they hit toddler age and when they get close to being teens. And if you check yes they'll say "You should make sure those are locked up!".

And for the person who said they didn't ask if you have a pool - they do, actually, at least for toddlers. Apparently by the time the kid's older they drop that one. They don't ask every possible thing each time.

If you want to see other ages, this page has a selection: http://mydoctor.kaiserpermanente.org/ncal/facilities/region/gsaa/area_master/departments/pediatrics/early-childhood.jsp

So as an example if you click the one for three year old they ask if they're potty trained (if not they'll give advice) and make sure they're in a legal car seat and that they eat their veggies and not too much junk food.

AndrewMendez
08-14-2012, 6:53 PM
Amazing....
Speechless...
I can not believe I read most of this thread.

After working in several different Emergency Medicine settings AND several years with Kaiser...hands down, I don't take my children anywhere else but KP.

I can assure you that the form used to ask you the initials questions is not something the Doctor specifically asked to be put on. The forms are mass produced. Yelling at the Doctor is not the way to get the problem address. I would bring it up to the Hospital Admin staff of KP Zion.

I don't ever remember reading that when I take my girls in, but I just wouldn't answer it.

Many hospitals ask the same question. Just don't answer it. No reason to leave a great company.

thomashoward
08-14-2012, 7:01 PM
Says at the top to skip any questions that don't apply.
that's one
My KP doctor shoots match Garand.
We talk medicine/illness for 5 minutes and guns for 20

ramathorn
08-14-2012, 7:06 PM
My wife works in the medical field and says they ask because if children develop signs of depression having a gun in the home (or accessible) make the odds of them successfully committing suicide much higher. Allegedly childhood depression has spiked recently (thanks Facebook!) and suicide is all too common with the youth.

All things aside, we still answer no because its an odd question to get at your kids doctor, but i guess things do happen and maybe they address depression differently if there is a gun around that the child could use in a suicide attempt. A gun does make it easy. Then again so does rope but thats not in the list of questions...

Rampage.Maupin
08-14-2012, 7:19 PM
[QUOTE=BlindRacer;9128008]I too have Kaiser, and two youngsters. It might be a little late, but when it comes to things like this, it's better to be polite, and leave it blank. Like you said, it's none of their business. However, having a patient go off on them, and refuse to answer a question about guns, probably doesn't bode to well. They may see it as a dangerous situation for your child, and contact CPS. [QUOTE]

Really they are going to make a complaint to CPS because someone refused to answer a question on a questionaire. This is nothing, but fear mongering. If this is your concern why would you even own a gun? It sounds like an appropriate response to intrusive questions regarding none of their business.

tdyoung1958
08-14-2012, 8:13 PM
guess who is the 5th largest supporter of O'blaminbush and the DNC

Kaiser

My Doc back in PA once asked me if I had any guns at home, I said "no it's right here under my coat," I feel nekkid out here without the ability to protect myself from the vermin

But I guess that's job security for the 1800 trolls in the sheriff's office here in Santa Clara County

JeremyKX
08-14-2012, 8:39 PM
You made a huge issue over a question on the questionnaire which you can leave blank?

:confused:

DRM6000
08-14-2012, 10:00 PM
I too am a kaiser member. I just checked "no". The doctor just administers the form so no use in giving him crap over it. If I got defensive about it, they might check "yes" in the system.

go4kil
08-14-2012, 10:19 PM
i find this thread to be to funny :shrug:

rg_1111@yahoo.com
08-15-2012, 12:48 AM
You guys are too much. It's not Kaiser that want's to know. It's the Federal Government that regulates Kaiser that want's to know.

battleship
08-15-2012, 12:59 AM
I would of wrote LOTS OF THEM just to open the irrelevance of the question posted.

FalconLair
08-15-2012, 1:12 AM
It's not just Kaiser. I have been asked a number of times and, my answers are dependant upon my mood. Mostly, I don't answer but, I don't tell them about surgeries from the past either. If it's pertinent, I'll tell them.
Personal information should be just that.totally understandable, those gender reassignment surgeries are nobodies business but your own ;)

this reminds me of an episode of The Big Bang Theory, where Penny dislocated her shoulder, Sheldon had to take her to the ER and fill out the form concerning Penny and some of her past and present conditions...it was scripted very funny :)

1000stars
08-15-2012, 1:23 AM
Put does kitchen knives count?

davek8s
08-15-2012, 9:29 AM
I just put "No" on that question. How are they going to know any different.

viet4lifeOC
08-15-2012, 9:55 AM
i dont understand the big deal out of this? put no, yes, or leave it blank.

THIS.