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TROYSD
08-13-2012, 12:52 PM
my friend moved to montana a few years ago and left a couple guns at my house, we were roommates. the other day he asked me to ups one to him. it was a browning bt-99 single barrel trap gun. so i package it and go to ups. i ask the clerk , can i ship a gun , first mistake, she says , if the shipper or reciever have a ffl. im being honest so i say no. so i call my friend and say i need a ffl to ship to. he lives in bfe montana so knows everybody in town. so he calls ace hardware guy, ace says sure , he calls and ask for the number to fax his ffl. i ask ups for fax , why she says , i say so we can get copy of ffl. she says well nobodys ever done that before. so she finds a fax and ace sends ffl. then friend calls and says ace says cant recieve the gun unless sent by ffl. so friend calls sport good store guy , he says yea he wi ll recieve it. so i tell ups okay lets send to this address. then she gets on phone for 1/2 hour with someone to see if its alright. she finally says ok we can ship it to sporting good store, which is also ups shipper in mt.
so ups will ship guns if you just say oh yea i have a ffl?
i cant believe that. it appears to me this location just made there own rules?

Merc1138
08-13-2012, 1:00 PM
They probably haven't done it before at that location, or at least the employee hadn't. Also, UPS stores are franchises if I recall correctly, unlike say... fedex/kinkos which is all run by the corporate office. Remember that probably 99% of the stuff they ship doesn't have any rules or regulations to deal with aside from declaration of value and insurance.

fiddletown
08-13-2012, 1:17 PM
my friend moved to montana a few years ago and left a couple guns at my house, we were roommates. the other day he asked me to ups one to him. it was a browning bt-99 single barrel trap gun. so i package it and go to ups. i ask the clerk , can i ship a gun , first mistake, she says , if the shipper or reciever have a ffl. im being honest so i say no. ....If you ship the gun directly to your friend, you and he will be violating federal law and liable for up to five years in a federal prison and/or a monetary fine. Because the gun is currently in your possession, sending the gun to your friend is a transfer of possession. Under federal law, that must go through an FFL.

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, federal law (18 USC 922(b)(3)) allows any FFL to do the transfer as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

See first 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

And then see 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

TROYSD
08-13-2012, 1:21 PM
SO if im going hunting in michigan, and dont want to fly my gun i cant ups it to my dad there so when i arrive its there.?

TROYSD
08-13-2012, 1:24 PM
also fiddletown, since this gun is going to a ffl does that ssatisfy the law of, going thru a ffl ?

fiddletown
08-13-2012, 2:14 PM
SO if im going hunting in michigan, and dont want to fly my gun i cant ups it to my dad there so when i arrive its there.?You may ship the gun to yourself in care of another person. The person receiving the gun needs to be instructed not to open the package. If he opens it, it would be considered a transfer. Here's (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional) what the ATF says:Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

However, UPS might not take it. I believe that under their policy they will only carry guns to an FFL. However, if it's a long gun, it would be legal to send it by U. S. Mail. A handgun, however, may not be mailed except by an FFL.

also fiddletown, since this gun is going to a ffl does that ssatisfy the law of, going thru a ffl ?The gun may lawfully be shipped to an FFL. Your friend can then have the gun transferred to him by the FFL. The FFL will do so in accordance with the normal formalities necessary to comply with state and federal law. E. g., your friend will fill out a 4473, and the FFL will do the NICS check.

tackdriver
08-13-2012, 4:48 PM
You may ship the gun to yourself in care of another person. The person receiving the gun needs to be instructed not to open the package. If he opens it, it would be considered a transfer. Here's (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional) what the ATF says:
However, UPS might not take it. I believe that under their policy they will only carry guns to an FFL. However, if it's a long gun, it would be legal to send it by U. S. Mail. A handgun, however, may not be mailed except by an FFL.

The gun may lawfully be shipped to an FFL. Your friend can then have the gun transferred to him by the FFL. The FFL will do so in accordance with the normal formalities necessary to comply with state and federal law. E. g., your friend will fill out a 4473, and the FFL will do the NICS check.

All this is correct. Only thing to add is you'll need to go thru USPS. UPS will only ship the FFL way

If USPS knows you are shipping a rifle, you'll need to send it thru "Express Mail" and insured. Which of course, adds considerably to the mailing cost.

snook135
08-13-2012, 7:18 PM
SO if im going hunting in michigan, and dont want to fly my gun i cant ups it to my dad there so when i arrive its there.?

You can ship it via USPS in care of yourself... Your dad may sign for it, but technically he can't open the package only you can. I have done this a few times...