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View Full Version : Modern/Best version of "Quick Clot" bandage?


Danz la Nuit
08-12-2012, 11:24 PM
Was looking to purchase a few to put in the first aid kits, range bag, etc...

Looking for the "ideal" bandage/solution for a very serious bleeding wound, stab/gunshot etc...

Was looking at this model:
http://www.amazon.com/Quikclot-Advanced-Clotting-Bleeding-Package/dp/B001BCNTHC/

However, a review on another page was talking about how Quikclot is outdated and there are better, more modern equivalents on the market, yet failed to mention any names.

Anyone looked into this?

Synergy
08-12-2012, 11:27 PM
I get my medical supplies from Life Assist, they sell to EMS and Fire Depts. Check with them for new medical stuff.

Some items you may not be able to purchase, call them to verify.

https://shop.life-assist.com/Life-Assist.aspx

FatalKitty
08-13-2012, 12:03 AM
the reason they failed to mention any names is because QuickClot ACS is still used, effectively. and there isn't anything "better"

voiceofreason
08-13-2012, 6:17 AM
http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=05188MT&source=nextopia

http://www.chinookmed.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=05168MT&source=nextopia

stick with the folding/z packed stuff, easier to use according to my cousin (Army medic), stay away from anything that is a powder or granule; stick with stuff attached to gauze for ease of use

any powdered stuff... don't let it get into your eyes or you'll regret it

either of the above will work fine, the Combat Gauze is proven, but supposedly the Chitogauze is faster.

(I don't know enough to say whether the following brochure advertisement is true, but I'll share it here)
http://www.narescue.com/media/NAR/ChitoGauze/ChitoGauze_eBrochure.pdf

Chinookmed & narescue are both good to order from

for an individual first aid pouch:
ABDs are super cheap and I'd recommend having a few of those, a few rolls of med tape, and some sterile gauze, a CAT or SOF tourniquet, a few pair of nitrile gloves, med scissors, 4" israeli bandage, and some type of light

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=465760


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I'd recommend keeping a med kit in each car, and a small one in your backpack/work bag. The ones in the car I've used to clean and dress small wounds fairly regularly. Band aids, polysporin, q tips, nitrile gloves, gauze, tape... cheap small stuff that doesn't require money or space to have.

I REALLY like the small single use applications for the anti-infection gels/clear Polysporin. They're somewhere on the list above. SUPER useful.

Most issues you'll have aren't going to be gunshot wounds or stabbings, but small cuts and scrapes. Have the tools to address BOTH.

CDFingers
08-13-2012, 6:30 AM
I don't need this new product, as I always keep a camp fire going with a branding iron in it. Cauterization...

CDFingers

mroels
08-13-2012, 11:58 AM
I keep little individual packs like this in my car, wife's car, hiking bag, range bag. These are vacuum sealed to they're tiny and will fit even in cargo pant pockets but still have a lot of stuff in them.
http://www.botachtactical.com/tacpack2.html

I also have a proper blow out kit for when I go shoot on BLM land alone but that's a bit more pricey.

Eirerogue
08-13-2012, 12:37 PM
+1 on Tacpack 2. I keep one in each car and I carry 3 in my med bag at the office.

Socalmedix
08-13-2012, 2:06 PM
If you have a choice and are in an urban area, don't use Quickclot... It was developed for the battlefield for a reason. Our medical director (who is still an active army suregon) states it actually burns more tissue than really helps also it is used to form a clot and it could produce a thrombus in the bloodstream causing a heart attack or stroke if te clot moves through the vascular system. A better option is a tight bandage and as a last resort, a tourniquet. If a tourniquet is used, and the limb is repearfused in a reasonable time frame the limb can be saved.

SkyStorm82
08-13-2012, 4:16 PM
If you have a choice and are in an urban area, don't use Quickclot... It was developed for the battlefield for a reason. Our medical director (who is still an active army suregon) states it actually burns more tissue than really helps also it is used to form a clot and it could produce a thrombus in the bloodstream causing a heart attack or stroke if te clot moves through the vascular system. A better option is a tight bandage and as a last resort, a tourniquet. If a tourniquet is used, and the limb is repearfused in a reasonable time frame the limb can be saved.

I believe the new Quikclot doesn't burn anymore.

Socalmedix
08-13-2012, 5:04 PM
I hadnt heard that. I'll look into it... The vascular compromises are enough to steer me away from it. I'll opt for the pressure dressings and turnoquet.

FatalKitty
08-13-2012, 6:45 PM
it doesn't burn. I have firsthand experience receiving it in an injury. it doesn't "burn more tissue than it helps" that is... well that's stupid, especially coming from a doctor.

it's because of my experience with it that I keep it in all my kits.

Socalmedix
08-13-2012, 9:29 PM
Like i said, I have never used it personally, I just gathered my info from him. And yes when it first came out it burned, there were documented cases of 2nd degree thermal burns from the use of the product, check your facts... that was one of the reasons it was initially declined for civilian use.


http://www.fieldandstream.com/forums/survival/you-need-quikclot-your-kit "They stopped issuing Quikclot for awhile because the powder would burn up on all the blood or liquid on the surface too, and the doctors did not like cleaning up the scared tissue. "

Yea scarring happens spontaneously huh Fatalkitty? You seem like a real medical genius.

"Actually The army no longer uses quick clot, and now with more severe wounds go imediantly to a self appliable tourniquet as quick clot can do more damage. a tourniquet can be left on (and not loosened) for up to 6hrs (or so uncle sam told me) before you risk loss of limb."

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=139859 "For all of you who are wondering, quikclot operates by reacting with the blood, exciting the platelets within the blood stream and in doing so clotting the wound at an accelerated rate. This reaction is highly exothermic, which causes the burning, most, if not all, granule based hemostatic agents will act in this way. However, the severity of the burning will differ depending on which brand you purchase. Another thing common to all of the granule based products is that they will have to be removed by a physician in a controlled setting. When the military still used granule based quikclot we were trained to only use it on extremity wounds, and to never apply it to the groin,chest, neck, or head area. Another thing about Quikclot (both Gauze and grandule based) is that it will react with any blood, so you need to make sure you clean out the wound of excess blood before you apply it. If not, it will react with standing blood in the wound and not treat the source of the bleed. This is the most likely reason why the aforementioned scout master had to change out the dressing.

Also, Quikclot was removed from all military first aid kits (Both IFAKs and Corpsman bags) about a year ago. We got rid of ours shortly before my last afghan deployment in November of 2009. It is now a punishable offense to use Quikclot in the field or a combat zone.

Now for my personal opinion, Granule based quikclot is not a viable survival medical implement because once you apply it it requires a trained physician to remove it, something you may or may not have. The tissue burning caused by the reaction will also make the wound area more prone to infection. "

Check your info before you post some uneducated response.

Scuba Steve33
08-13-2012, 9:44 PM
I believe the new Quikclot doesn't burn anymore.

Correct. The old Quikclot burned. If it touched blood over flesh you were fine but if it got on any "clean" flesh it would leave serious burns. The new stuff doesn't.

However, Quikclot is not the best thing for someone wanting to have something to stop something like gun shot wounds. A tourniquet is the best thing you can have for serious wounds. http://combattourniquet.com/applications/military/ Obviously there are certain areas you cannot apply one and in that event pressure bandages work best. If you don't have experience with Quikclot you shouldn't be carrying the stuff. It's pointless to have stuff on hand if you don't know how to use it. Pack a couple tourniquets and some pressure bandages. Leave Quikclot to the medics.


Also, Quikclot was removed from all military first aid kits (Both IFAKs and Corpsman bags) about a year ago. We got rid of ours shortly before my last afghan deployment in November of 2009. It is now a punishable offense to use Quikclot in the field or a combat zone.

Not true at all.

Socalmedix
08-13-2012, 10:13 PM
Not true at all.

I got that from that site I posted, hadn't confirmed it yet, however I have called our medical director for more info, just got off the phone with him:

By name "Quickclot" is not to be used in the battlefield anymore. Whatever the new trade name is what replaced it, also, the new stuff will still burn slightly, no where near as bad as "Quickclot". Also the new granules have the same potential for creating thrombus which can manifest itself as a Stroke, Myocardial Infarction, Pulmonary Embolism or a Deep Vein Thrombosis, the best option is the gauze with a slight amount of the new clotting agent.

Personally I wouldn't use it on myself or any of my loved ones.

opie4386
08-13-2012, 10:17 PM
I thought the army was using/testing a chitosan based dressing to counter the burning of the ( old) quickclot.

TAK
08-13-2012, 10:30 PM
Unless you are hours from a hospital quikclot is not a good idea.

Pressure, gauze and in a very extreme circumstance tourniquet is all you need.

It was meant for the battlefield when it's very possible you may go hours without receiving proper care and you may sustain multiple life threatening injuries, ie double+ amputee, multiple gunshot wounds, compound fractures,arterial bleeding and other things of that nature.

mroels
08-13-2012, 11:38 PM
While I do carry those tacpacs with quick clot I would never use it unless absolutely necessary with help far away, which is going to be a rare circumstance. However there are other good things in those packs and the size makes it ready to keep one close at all times

Scuba Steve33
08-14-2012, 1:19 AM
I got that from that site I posted, hadn't confirmed it yet, however I have called our medical director for more info, just got off the phone with him:

By name "Quickclot" is not to be used in the battlefield anymore. Whatever the new trade name is what replaced it, also, the new stuff will still burn slightly, no where near as bad as "Quickclot". Also the new granules have the same potential for creating thrombus which can manifest itself as a Stroke, Myocardial Infarction, Pulmonary Embolism or a Deep Vein Thrombosis, the best option is the gauze with a slight amount of the new clotting agent.

Personally I wouldn't use it on myself or any of my loved ones.

The Army still definitely uses it and issues it in IFAKs. It's the improved Quikclot though. Not the old powder that caused burns.

A civilian should still not have it, especially one who doesn't have experience with it. It was designed for combat situations with severe wounds where you can't simply call 911. A tourniquet and pressure bandage is the best thing for a civilian and will be able to handle any situation. Anything above those two and you would need an ambulance/hospital.

Socalmedix
08-14-2012, 7:11 AM
The Army still definitely uses it and issues it in IFAKs. It's the improved Quikclot though. Not the old powder that caused burns.

A civilian should still not have it, especially one who doesn't have experience with it. It was designed for combat situations with severe wounds where you can't simply call 911. A tourniquet and pressure bandage is the best thing for a civilian and will be able to handle any situation. Anything above those two and you would need an ambulance/hospital.

I agree with you 100%

ptoguy2002
08-14-2012, 8:29 AM
I have no medical expertise in any way, but I had bought one of these for the big first aid for shooting out at BLM land where you are at least an hour away from a hospital or need a helicopter ride. I did a bit of research on it before, and the bottom line (from what I had read) is basically: Don't use it if you can use a tourniquet instead, don't use it if the bleeding is moderate to minor and can be controlled with direct pressure. ONLY use it if the person is obviously going to bleed out before help comes, and there is no other way to stop the bleeding. Basically a last resort kind of thing.
I guess we have some medical professionals here, is that an unreasonable line of reasoning for use?

Stubby
08-14-2012, 1:04 PM
If you have a choice and are in an urban area, don't use Quickclot... It was developed for the battlefield for a reason. Our medical director (who is still an active army suregon) states it actually burns more tissue than really helps also it is used to form a clot and it could produce a thrombus in the bloodstream causing a heart attack or stroke if te clot moves through the vascular system. A better option is a tight bandage and as a last resort, a tourniquet. If a tourniquet is used, and the limb is repearfused in a reasonable time frame the limb can be saved.

Your Medical director needs to catch up with his knowledge and loose the FUD. Yes the original QC burned, and burned bad. This was the 1st Generation Zeolite based powder product. This was a few years ago and in that time QC has gone through a 2nd Generation cooler Zeolite teabag and now the 3rd generation Kaolin based combat gauze product. The current TCCC reccommended Hemostatic is QC combat gauze. Also the Chitosan based products from Celox and Chitogauze from Hemcon are excellent non thermogenic choices. Most of the Docs I have talked to prefer the Chitosan based products but QC is the number 1 product used by the US military at the moment.

As to the issue of clotting. Yes, anytime you aide the body in "clotting" you do have the potential to create a thrombus. However I think your Doc is confusing QC with a product called woundstat. Woundstat was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread but it did cause major issues with blood clots and was removed from service pretty quick.

Your Doc (and you) are 100% correct regarding the preferred treatment. Direct pressure will stop about 98% of all bleeding issues for the other 2% a tourniquet and/or hemostatics will be necessary.

To summarize:

1st take a first aid class or seek out a tactical trauma class to learn how to treat severe bleeding.

2nd. Direct pressure is your best friend.

3rd. Artery bleeds that cannot be quickly stopped buy step 2. Get a Tourniquet.

4th. Hemostatics are best used for areas of severe arterial bleeding that cannot be stopped by the placement of a TQ or direct pressure (think femoral bleed near the groin ect). Also IF you are going to use QC or Celox or whatever you must be ready to pack the wound to the bone with the product then apply direct pressure per the manufactures recommended time frame and then apply a pressure dressing over the area.