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View Full Version : Doctor likens gun ownership to a disease


RekEnhanced
08-12-2012, 12:50 PM
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=6r3VskuN

In the first few paragraphs they state that it's not enough to stop gun violence by focusing on the people doing the shooting.

Read this and chime in please.

daveinwoodland
08-12-2012, 1:08 PM
Read it. Wasn't impresed with any of his "theories". It figures he's from UCD though. Used to live there and 80% of the population felt entitled and superior to anyone else.

Sorry statements for a sorry individual is how I felt after reading it. I guess you'll never be free of an individual with that thought process of how they believe the best way is to curb violence is always the instrument's fault and never the person. Sad.

johnthomas
08-12-2012, 1:28 PM
If gun ownership is a disease, then I am in the advanced stages. The fact is, there are some people, a very small percentage of the gun owning public that have no business owning or touching a firearm. Just like cars, knives or electrical items. . There is never a public outcry when someone plows into a crowd of people, because everyone has a car and no one wants to lose their ability to drive. Not so with guns, it is much easier to focus on the tragedy and hit nerves of non gun owners. What history has shown us is that a country with zero tolerance of private gun ownership soon takes over that country with little or no resistance from the private sector. If this were just about safety that would be one thing, but it is not, it is about keeping the rest of our rights, our freedoms in tact. What can we do about people that are bent on this type of behavior? A person from a range in CO refused membership to his range to the "Joker" could have called the police and asked them to check him out. We know what the norm for gun folks are, we also know when someone is off their rocker or ready to break. Do we as gun owners have a responsibility to police ourselves? Would this turn into a witch hunt? I do know one thing, if this continues, something will be done and our rights will be taken away.

vikingm03
08-12-2012, 3:02 PM
My favorite:

"-Disease patterns, observing how a problem spreads. Gun ownership - a precursor to gun violence - can spread "much like an infectious disease circulates," said Daniel Webster, a health policy expert and co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore."

lol!

Computer ownership - a precursor to being a hacker...

Car ownership - a precursor to drunk driving and being in a fast and furious movie...

Food ownership - a precursor to being a fat @@@...

janus408
08-12-2012, 3:38 PM
If we follow this logic, HIV is a disease that kills scores of people, so we should outlaw sex for everyone. Even married, monogamous couples.

Because that is what he is saying about guns. Because we have a few reckless idiots, the rest of us should have a right stripped from us.

"Bans on assault weapons and multiple magazines that allow rapid and repeat firing are other possible steps."

Give. Me. A. Break. One, anyone committing a heinous violent act like mass murder is NOT going to follow any laws banning this. If someone were to commit mass murder in California, they are not doing it with a bullet button, or with 10 round magazines. They are using a standard release and buying rebuild kits they will reassemble to normal capacity.

So why make the law? It is not going to be followed by the criminal... Soon we will have to register all magazines and have a cap on how many we can own with idiots like this proposing legislation.

So sick of this crap.

voiceofreason
08-12-2012, 3:45 PM
this "national product oversight" is simply gun control under a different label

RekEnhanced
08-12-2012, 5:20 PM
The part I find funny about all gun control legislation and such is that murder has been outlawed for ages but that hasn't stopped anyone from doing it. So if banning the act of murder has failed to stop it what makes anyone think that banning any type of weaponry will be fruitful?

drdarkness
08-12-2012, 5:43 PM
I hope gun ownership spreads like a disease then I'll have more shooting buddies,kind of like when I was a kid and had chicken pox,all of us that had it at the same time got to play together.

m03
08-12-2012, 6:02 PM
So how many accidental deaths are caused by physicians every year?

As such, by that logic, could accidental deaths by physician be characterized as a disease as well?

thenodnarb
08-12-2012, 6:51 PM
I've heard causes for death in America go
#1)Cancer
#2) Heart Disease
#3) Medical Malpractice and death from medication(too much, allergic reactions, mixing drugs etc)

True or false?

GW
08-12-2012, 7:06 PM
One recent study found firearm owners were more likely than those with no firearms at home to binge drink or to drink and drive, and other research has tied alcohol and gun violence. That suggests that people with driving under the influence convictions should be barred from buying a gun, Wintemute said.

Where do they get this?
Vague quotes and innuendo

just great

How about we start this?:

Another recent study indicates a high incidence of pedophilia among non-gun owners

cdtx2001
08-12-2012, 7:28 PM
My favorite:



Computer ownership - a precursor to being a hacker... Being addicted to porn

Car ownership - a precursor to drunk driving and being in a fast and furious movie... Uses car to drive to adult book stores to buy porn

Food ownership - a precursor to being a fat @@@... Eats before going to adult book store so he/she won't be hungry and stop buying porn.



You are SOOOOOO wrong on your above conclusions and I therefore put the correct responses to them in bold

smle-man
08-12-2012, 7:49 PM
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=6r3VskuN

In the first few paragraphs they state that it's not enough to stop gun violence by focusing on the people doing the shooting.

Read this and chime in please.

So it starts....

Thrashard340
08-12-2012, 8:14 PM
Yeah. Pretty ridiculous article. The rationale is all wrong. They use curved guardrails as an example to protect poor driving. However, in an apples-to-apples comparison, these guardrails do not impede the American citizen to own a car.

I do not believe more gun control laws will help. However, I do believe in more invasive background check measures as a solution.

heavyrecoil
08-12-2012, 10:38 PM
A "more invasive background check?" What, exactly, do you mean?

QQQ
08-12-2012, 10:46 PM
Having recently completed a graduate degree in public health, I can confidently say that the rubbish mentioned in the article will not fly for any moderately well-educated epidemiologist on a scientific basis without a LOT of changes.

tbhracing
08-12-2012, 10:47 PM
Tagged

five.five-six
08-12-2012, 10:50 PM
So how many accidental deaths are caused by physicians every year?

As such, by that logic, could accidental deaths by physician be characterized as a disease as well?

funny you should ask

-- There are 700,000 physicians in the United States.
-- There are 120,000 accidental deaths in the United States caused by physicians every year, and the accidental death percentage per physician is 0.171.
-- There are 80 million gun owners in the United States.
-- There are 1,500 accidental deaths from guns every year, regardless of age group, and the accidental death percentage per gun owner is 0.0000188.

This means, the letter points out, that doctors are 9,000 times more deadly than gun owners.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/021206.html#ixzz23P1NePBX

bohoki
08-12-2012, 10:58 PM
so is owning a motorcycle

its the disease of freedom

Thrashard340
08-12-2012, 11:01 PM
A "more invasive background check?" What, exactly, do you mean?

Psychiatric history for starters. As of right now, privacy laws prevent that crucial bit of info in background checks. And I'm specifically singling out psychiatric issues over psychological ones. Psychiatric diagnoses involve chemical imbalances that require medication versus just regular counseling from a Psychologist.

If you may have noticed, many of these mass shootings involve shooters that had a history of psychiatric care. Both the recent Colorado theater shooting and the Virginia Tech Massacre come to mind.

I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but does anyone else have any better ideas besides more gun laws? If other creative measures aren't introduced, you can continue to expect lawmakers push for more gun laws and eventually press them into reality.

five.five-six
08-12-2012, 11:05 PM
Psychiatric history for starters. As of right now, privacy laws prevent that crucial bit of info in background checks. And I'm specifically singling out psychiatric issues over psychological ones. Psychiatric diagnoses involve chemical imbalances that require medication versus just regular counseling from a Psychologist.

If you may have noticed, many of these mass shootings involve shooters that had a history of psychiatric care. Both the recent Colorado theater shooting and the Virginia Tech Massacre come to mind.

I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but does anyone else have any better ideas besides more gun laws? If other creative measures aren't introduced, you can continue to expect lawmakers push for more gun laws and eventually press them into reality.

Well yes, if you really want to save a lot of lives, go for the low hanging fruit first. Far more unlawful deaths involve cars than guns, you do the math. :thumbsup:

Thrashard340
08-12-2012, 11:10 PM
Well yes, if you really want to save a lot of lives, go for the low hanging fruit first. Far more unlawful deaths involve cars than guns, you do the math. :thumbsup:

So instead of diverting the topic to car crashes and other causes of death, do you care to offer a solution to the topic at hand? Otherwise, you're not really adding anything here.

Also, I'm not sure if you noticed, but the low hanging fruit is what pushes gun control laws to the forefront with lawmakers.

five.five-six
08-12-2012, 11:17 PM
So instead of diverting the topic to car crashes and other causes of death, do you care to offer a solution to the topic at hand? Otherwise, you're not really adding anything here.

wait, I am talking about saving lives, as you claim to be in your post.. I offer a more effective way to employ your idea and you derail.


It seems to me that you are more interested in controlling gun ownership and not in the least bit concerned with saving lives. how about you go troll on some other forum :)

Thrashard340
08-12-2012, 11:18 PM
wait, I am talking about saving lives, as you claim to be in your post.. I offer a more effective way to employ your idea and you derail.


It seems to me that you are more interested in controlling gun ownership and not in the least bit concerned with saving lives. how about you go troll on some other forum :)

You consider this trolling? Why so sensitive? This is a gun forum, not a car forum. :rolleyes:

So again I ask, what do you propose as a solution instead of gun control? Don't dodge the question.

five.five-six
08-12-2012, 11:33 PM
You consider this trolling? Why so sensitive? This is a gun forum, not a car forum. :rolleyes:

So again I ask, what do you propose as a solution instead of gun control. Don't dodge the question.


You are talking about Virginia tech, Colorado and the theater. I will entertain you and ignore the 250,000 people that died in cars in that period and stick to the 58 people you want to talk about.

IMO, repealing HIPPA and violating the constitution is a bad idea. To the short sited it may seem a good idea but over all it is destructive to the nation as a whole. What to do about it? more CCWs. At VA tech, the killer chained the doors, lined people up and summarily reloaded and executed completely unopposed. 1 or 2 CCWs and the body count would have been 3-4 people. I submit that it may not have even happened. Have you ever noticed the one thing that all of these mass slaying almost always ALWAYS have in common? they are always in a place where people are not allowed to have a gun to defend themselves.

Capybara
08-12-2012, 11:35 PM
A small point being overlooked here is that gun violence is a convenient excuse for continual disarmament. Even if we had gone a decade without a mass shooting, the antis would be pushing disarmament just as hard, the mass shootings are just a convenient catalyst for them.

five.five-six
08-12-2012, 11:39 PM
A small point being overlooked here is that gun violence is a convenient excuse for continual disarmament. Even if we had gone a decade without a mass shooting, the antis would be pushing disarmament just as hard, the mass shootings are just a convenient catalyst for them.


It really fires up the useful idiots to ban guns, as seen in SB249

jdberger
08-13-2012, 12:07 AM
Garen Wintermute has been in the employ of the Brady Campaign, Violence Policy Center and the other operative organs of the Joyce Foundation for years. The Harvard Injury Research folks and the Johns Hopkins folks are on the take, too. The evidence is right on Joyce's website.

Their attempt to classify "gun violence" as a public health issue was tried before. It was obnoxious then. The culture has changed. Folks frown on attempts to classify fundamental civil rights as social diseases

BigDogatPlay
08-13-2012, 6:57 AM
Gun Control as Public Health Policy has been a meme off and on for quite a while. As noted above it surfaces now and then as a trial balloon, is seen as being patently stupid, and it goes away again.

five.five-six
08-13-2012, 7:56 AM
Gun Control as Public Health Policy has been a meme off and on for quite a while. As noted above it surfaces now and then as a trial balloon, is seen as being patently stupid, and it goes away again.

We used to think that about socialized medicine. Be afraid, be very afraid. Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

Thrashard340
08-13-2012, 7:07 PM
You are talking about Virginia tech, Colorado and the theater. I will entertain you and ignore the 250,000 people that died in cars in that period and stick to the 58 people you want to talk about.

IMO, repealing HIPPA and violating the constitution is a bad idea. To the short sited it may seem a good idea but over all it is destructive to the nation as a whole. What to do about it? more CCWs. At VA tech, the killer chained the doors, lined people up and summarily reloaded and executed completely unopposed. 1 or 2 CCWs and the body count would have been 3-4 people. I submit that it may not have even happened. Have you ever noticed the one thing that all of these mass slaying almost always ALWAYS have in common? they are always in a place where people are not allowed to have a gun to defend themselves.

You claim that you are trying to save lives. However, it doesn't sound like it. I say that include Psychiatric history into background checks which are already a necessity in this state...just add additional criteria. I'm not recommending that the Second Amendment go away. I'm recommending that we keep firearms in the ownership of law-abiding, mentally healthy citizens.

By saying that we should allow more CCW's, promotes a Wild, Wild, West attitude and I don't see how you can say you are interested in saving lives by suggesting this. However, I am with you in saying that CCW requirements for law abiding, mentally healthy citizens should be relaxed. I just think the likelihood of it happening will be far less than a more thorough background check.

As for car accidents, you keep using it as an example. So my question to you is: "How would you propose to reduce automotive deaths?" I don't intend for you to answer this because this is not the appropriate forum. However, if you are truly intent on saving lives, you would offer suggestions on this topic as well. I don't think automotive related deaths should be ignored. However, I do not believe that it should be used to divert the topic of gun deaths which lead to Band-Aid gun control laws like SB249. These two should be viewed as two separate topics and addressed as two separate topics.

As to my suggestions for psychiatric history as part of the background check? Think about this. The U.S. Government, if it wishes, can already dig up as much dirt on you as possible...from a seat belt infraction to visiting a doctor for a flu shot. If the Government really wanted to, they can already do it (and would do it if it served their interests). So why not allow the DOJ the flexibility to deny a gun purchase based on Psychiatric history? I'm not even saying that mental history should be made public, but even by going after the "low hanging fruit", you are still saving lives.

I currently own an AR15 and just purchased an AR10 lower. I don't want to see anymore restrictions on the type of firearms you can purchase. I don't want them taken away either. Almost all of the posts I see on here regarding gun control relates to ranting and no real solution. I think there needs to be more discussion on what alternatives we can provide besides limiting the type of firearms you can buy. Relax CCW restrictions? Fine. Psychiatric history checks, Fine. I'm OK with either.

Believe me when I say that I'm on your side.

ThePatriot
08-13-2012, 7:28 PM
How many of our other rights require a psych test? If government is allowed to refuse you a right based on mental fitness they will simply decide that anyone who wants to excercise the right must be nuts. The 2nd amendment is there to protect us from government which is why the government is banned from making any law respecting our ownership or handling of guns. The issue is not what criteria are reasonable - there are not supposed to be any criteria at all. Governments that have absolute power over their citizens have killed far more people than spree shooters ever could. We are not in a perfect world, the occasional, and very tragic mass killing is the lesser of two evils and banning guns would not put an end to them.

Burbur
08-13-2012, 7:41 PM
Can't believe I'm the first to say:

Black Rifle Disease

I just looked it up in my April 1 edition of the PDR

jdberger
08-13-2012, 7:41 PM
Thrashard, you might want to acquaint yourself with the concept of "Civil Death" if you're not already familiar.

All full citizens are afforded all the rights. If the State wants to ate away those rights, they need to exercise Due Process. And with that coes the States's obligation to prove, in a court, tat you're not capable of being a full citizen in good standing.

In short, to take your rights, the State needs to convict you first.

Thrashard340
08-13-2012, 7:50 PM
@the Patriot - I wasn't recommending a psych test. Just background checks based on Psychiatric history. There is a difference between having to see a Psychologist and having to see a Psychiatrist. If you're sent to a Psychiatrist, you have been determined to have a chemical imbalance that may require medication. I don't claim to know all the answers, but maybe it's time to start looking into it? As a normal individual myself, I don't want to be lumped into the same category as the unstable individual that went on a shooting rampage. Every time it happens, the rest of us are almost held just as accountable.

@JD Berger - I will admit that I need more education in that area, but as I stated above, maybe it's time to take these types of individuals into consideration? The suggestion is a bit on the extreme side, and I know I am on an island here by suggesting it. But unless, there are other alternatives, we will continue to see our Second Amendment rights continue to be chiseled away by lawmakers...it's only a matter of time.

Thrashard340
08-13-2012, 9:13 PM
I realize I could be dead nuts wrong in my opinion. Five.Five.Six laid out an alternative. Anyone else?

Rusty Scabbard
08-13-2012, 9:20 PM
My favorite:

"-Disease patterns, observing how a problem spreads. Gun ownership - a precursor to gun violence - can spread "much like an infectious disease circulates," said Daniel Webster, a health policy expert and co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore."


What was the precursor to Mao's cultural revolution ? How about the Gulag ? Did gun ownership contribute to the ghettos of Warsaw and subsequent extermination of 6 miilion people ? How many gun owners did Pol Pot & the Khmer rouge slaughter ?

SKG19
08-14-2012, 9:31 AM
More than 73,000 emergency room visits in 2010 were for firearm-related injuries, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates.

I love it they start talking numbers...wow 73,000 that's a lot. Wonder how many total emergency room visits there were? 123.8 MILLION in 2008 (probably more in 2010). Why are we talking about something that is 0.06% of anything? There's got to be bigger fish to fry.

bruceflinch
08-14-2012, 12:58 PM
If gun ownership is a disease, then I am in the advanced stages.

Dude! I'm Terminal!!!!