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View Full Version : AOW Idea Legality


Harrison_Bergeron
08-11-2012, 10:05 PM
I've been seeing a quite a few Serbu AOWs recently and they gave me an idea. It is partly based around CA compliance, and partly around just being a unique project.

If you were to give a Saiga 12 the PAR-1 treatment with a small vertical grip for the pump(like s Serbu) would you be able to legally have a detachable magazine?

My thinking is that since it would not be a semi-auto it would not be hindered by CA AW laws and would thus be legal with a fully detachable mag.

Mechanically and ergonomically it would take some tuning to work right, but I think the idea is sound.

mydogsmonkey
08-11-2012, 10:41 PM
since it'd be a pump shotgun, assuming you started with a stock saiga 12, unconverted yes. i don't know if 922r would affect it

Capybara
08-11-2012, 10:41 PM
Can you expand of what the "PAR-1 treatment" is? PAR = Pump Action Repeater, perhaps? A Saiga 12 is a semi auto shotgun so does this conversion somehow turn it into a pump gun?

FWIW, I have heard that almost any vertical grip on any shotgun is never a good idea in the long run as the extra torque bends the follower bars.

Chaos47
08-11-2012, 10:50 PM
PAR-1 is a pump action AK

0QcKguS5qhI

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/powder-keg/11006d1210815557-romanian-par-1-ak-pump-rifle-untitled.jpg

Harrison_Bergeron
08-11-2012, 10:52 PM
A PAR-1 is a pump action AK, they used to sell them at Big-5.

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/powder-keg/11006d1210815557-romanian-par-1-ak-pump-rifle-untitled.jpg

Looking at pics of the Serbu AOWs the vertical grip seems necessary for the very short barrel.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_i5wUrI4dYvo/TIWGZeG_NBI/AAAAAAAAAA4/-4G-g77UkDQ/s1600/ser_shorty_big.jpg

Basically, the question is: Would the Serbu above be legal if it had a detachable magazine?

CSACANNONEER
08-11-2012, 11:02 PM
922 does not apply to handguns. The AOW in question is an AOW not a SBS. Therefore, it's not a "shotgun" and 922 doesn't apply.

WDE91
08-11-2012, 11:17 PM
good lord that AK thing is ugly...

ke6guj
08-12-2012, 9:27 AM
Basically, the question is: Would the Serbu above be legal if it had a detachable magazine?

yes.

Eddy's Shooting Sports
08-12-2012, 10:15 AM
since it'd be a pump shotgun, assuming you started with a stock saiga 12, unconverted yes. i don't know if 922r would affect it

I'm not an AOW expert, but doesn't a gun being converted to AOW have to start as an "other", ie. a pistol grip shotgun, which would preclude the use of a Saiga 12?

ke6guj
08-12-2012, 10:24 AM
I'm not an AOW expert, but doesn't a gun being converted to AOW have to start as an "other", ie. a pistol grip shotgun, which would preclude the use of a Saiga 12?
For the Saiga-12, the trunnion is considered the receiver. Once the trunnion is removed, the sheet metal "receiver" is just a component. Machine a new trunnion and you can rebuild the parts kit into an AOW.

bohoki
08-12-2012, 10:55 AM
For the Saiga-12, the trunnion is considered the receiver. Once the trunnion is removed, the sheet metal "receiver" is just a component. Machine a new trunnion and you can rebuild the parts kit into an AOW.

wow is that true?

CSACANNONEER
08-12-2012, 3:06 PM
wow is that true?

Yes, it is true. I just handled a Saiga AOW on Friday. The numbers on the front trunion did not match the rest of the gun.

bohoki
08-12-2012, 4:20 PM
Yes, it is true. I just handled a Saiga AOW on Friday. The numbers on the front trunion did not match the rest of the gun.

funny i guess its just for saigas

cause for demilled its the stamping that is the gun the trunnion is uncontrolled

it would be like if the ar-10 maker decided to just mark the uppper feciever with the serial and called the lower a trigger houseing

this does open up a spiffy idea

could a company stamp out drill and weld saiga trigger housings and sell them without any imperial entanglements

Harrison_Bergeron
08-12-2012, 5:06 PM
Yes, it is true. I just handled a Saiga AOW on Friday. The numbers on the front trunion did not match the rest of the gun.

Are you saying that the paperwork listed the serial on the front trunnion and not what was on the receiver?

ke6guj
08-12-2012, 6:55 PM
Are you saying that the paperwork listed the serial on the front trunnion and not what was on the receiver?
on my S12, there are no serial numbers on the "receiver", just on the trunnion.

wilit
08-12-2012, 8:03 PM
Why go through all that work to convert an S12 to pump when you could just get a Mossberg 500 AOW and install a Knoxx Sidewinder kit? I realize the Mossberg isn't as cool as the Saiga, but at least you'll have an equally reliable pump with a detachable magazine for probably less money that going the converted S12 route.