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Travis590A1
08-11-2012, 3:08 PM
So a buddy of mine just got a stainless Vaquero and man is it awsome. I'm thinking of getting one or 2 for a cool conversation piece and the occasional backpacking trip. Does anyone have any experience with them! Are they just as strong and reliable as other Ruger revolvers? Also will it handle hot magnum loads? Thanks guys.

m98
08-11-2012, 3:12 PM
Tab on thread. I love the look of the vaquero too

Travis590A1
08-11-2012, 3:14 PM
Ya its awsome. I picked his up and thought to myself "I need 2 of these stainless with pearl grips!" I want to be a city slicker cowboy lol

TKM
08-11-2012, 3:14 PM
The OM are bumper jack strong. So are the New Models, but they are a little bit smaller.

There are a number of grip styles available. Handle a Bisley the first chance you get.

Do a walk around at a SASS event and you will see everything. Like all things Ruger, aftermarket bits and pieces are readily available.

I sold most of mine earlier this year, going target pistol instead of cowboy. Tastes change as you go along.

I still have a couple though.

rtk
08-11-2012, 3:52 PM
I have an OM Vaquero in 44 Magnum. I love the piece and it's a keeper for me. It's simple and 100% reliable. The Bisley Vaquero will have a better grip. I can only speak about the OM, but I've fed all types of .44 ammo through it and it processed it without any issues. One easy and reversible modifications on the Vaquero is unhooking one leg of the trigger spring. This reduced trigger pull on my Vaquero to 2 pounds.

cannon
08-11-2012, 4:11 PM
What's to say? They are affordable. Stronger than an anvil and stupid reliable. Kinda hard to go wrong really.

sofbak
08-11-2012, 4:46 PM
I have two of the "new" vaqueros in dual caliber .45. Very accurate guns and a hoot to shoot! The grip is rather small-so small that my little finger just curls under the grip and is not supporting the gun at all. But it doesn't seem to affect my ability to hit what I'm aiming at all.

I handled one with the bisley grip, and it didn't feel right for me. I would suggest you check out both styles before you buy.

Will it handle "magnum" loads? I started reloading when I got these becuase of the cost of .45 LC. I noticed in the Lee manual that came with my press kit, that there were two sections on this caliber-one "standard" and one other section for "Ruger and T/C" loads. So I e-mailed Lee Precision to see if the vaquero could stand up to the hotter ruger/TC load data. Here is the answer I got:

If you are loading for the Ruger, you can use any of the data provided.
The Ruger data is hotter loads than the others.
Bill Tech Service LEE Precision 4275 HWY "U" Hartford, WI. 53027

On 6/8/2012 8:27 AM, Lee Precision, Inc. wrote:
> Laine @ Lee Precision updated #NIC-522-41597
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Staff (Owner): Bill @ Lee Precision (was: -- Unassigned --)
> Status: In Progress (was: Open)
> Department: TechSupport (was: CustomerService)
>
> Reload data for .45 Long Colt
> -----------------------------

I haven't tried any of the hot loads yet, but according to ":Staff (Owner): Bill @ Lee Precision " it can handle it. (Did I really get an e-mail from Bill Lee-THE BILL LEE???? IDK....:confused:

Travis590A1
08-11-2012, 6:10 PM
Ok so its settled. I wanted a matching pair of stainless 1911's but I think I'm going to buy a pair of stainless vaqueros in .357 mag (and a cowboy hat) lol

TKM
08-11-2012, 7:00 PM
If you are worried about hot magnum loads why start with the .357?

That may have been stout in 1934 but that was a long time ago.

Go big or go home.

m98
08-11-2012, 8:46 PM
If you are worried about hot magnum loads why start with the .357?

That may have been stout in 1934 but that was a long time ago.

Go big or go home.


100% agreed, The purpose i see in a wheelgun is powerful bigdaddy calibers...............that is unless the op 'just wannabe a cowboy'

Reminds me of this guy one year at huntin camp. He was a friend of my huntin buddies. He was packn a ruger 357 wheeler. But when i ask him what's he feeding it. He said 38spl. Talk about downgrade for something to defend ur life with. :confused:

Travis590A1
08-11-2012, 9:23 PM
I love the .357 round. 45LC and .44 mag are a little to pricey for me.

hill billy
08-12-2012, 6:15 PM
I handled one with the bisley grip, and it didn't feel right for me. I would suggest you check out both styles before you buy.

Will it handle "magnum" loads? I started reloading when I got these becuase of the cost of .45 LC. I noticed in the Lee manual that came with my press kit, that there were two sections on this caliber-one "standard" and one other section for "Ruger and T/C" loads. So I e-mailed Lee Precision to see if the vaquero could stand up to the hotter ruger/TC load data. Here is the answer I got:

If you are loading for the Ruger, you can use any of the data provided.
The Ruger data is hotter loads than the others.
Bill Tech Service LEE Precision 4275 HWY "U" Hartford, WI. 53027

On 6/8/2012 8:27 AM, Lee Precision, Inc. wrote:
> Laine @ Lee Precision updated #NIC-522-41597
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Staff (Owner): Bill @ Lee Precision (was: -- Unassigned --)
> Status: In Progress (was: Open)
> Department: TechSupport (was: CustomerService)
>
> Reload data for .45 Long Colt
> -----------------------------

I haven't tried any of the hot loads yet, but according to ":Staff (Owner): Bill @ Lee Precision " it can handle it. (Did I really get an e-mail from Bill Lee-THE BILL LEE???? IDK....:confused:
The "new" New Vaquero small frames were not designed to handle Ruger only loads in the 45 C. No matter what some guy at Lee says. Ruger has stated again and again that these were not made for that pressure.

sofbak
08-12-2012, 6:59 PM
The "new" New Vaquero small frames were not designed to handle Ruger only loads in the 45 C. No matter what some guy at Lee says. Ruger has stated again and again that these were not made for that pressure.

Prove it. Either put up or STFU

Javi
08-12-2012, 7:06 PM
Make sure to post some pictures ;) I have one 1872 Open top and would love to get her a twin+ a pair of peacemakers.

cannon
08-12-2012, 7:28 PM
Prove it. Either put up or STFU

You may want to read this forums rules.

hill billy
08-12-2012, 7:39 PM
Prove it. Either put up or STFU

You aren't worth the time. The evidence is extensive. Try searching.

Marthor
08-12-2012, 7:46 PM
If you might try out Cowboy Action Shooting which has clubs all across the country, you'll want to get the 357s.

pyromensch
08-12-2012, 8:17 PM
I have two of the "new" vaqueros in dual caliber .45. Very accurate guns and a hoot to shoot! The grip is rather small-so small that my little finger just curls under the grip and is not supporting the gun at all. But it doesn't seem to affect my ability to hit what I'm aiming at all.

I handled one with the bisley grip, and it didn't feel right for me. I would suggest you check out both styles before you buy.

Will it handle "magnum" loads? I started reloading when I got these becuase of the cost of .45 LC. I noticed in the Lee manual that came with my press kit, that there were two sections on this caliber-one "standard" and one other section for "Ruger and T/C" loads. So I e-mailed Lee Precision to see if the vaquero could stand up to the hotter ruger/TC load data. Here is the answer I got:

If you are loading for the Ruger, you can use any of the data provided.
The Ruger data is hotter loads than the others.
Bill Tech Service LEE Precision 4275 HWY "U" Hartford, WI. 53027

On 6/8/2012 8:27 AM, Lee Precision, Inc. wrote:
> Laine @ Lee Precision updated #NIC-522-41597
> --------------------------------------------
>
> Staff (Owner): Bill @ Lee Precision (was: -- Unassigned --)
> Status: In Progress (was: Open)
> Department: TechSupport (was: CustomerService)
>
> Reload data for .45 Long Colt
> -----------------------------

I haven't tried any of the hot loads yet, but according to ":Staff (Owner): Bill @ Lee Precision " it can handle it. (Did I really get an e-mail from Bill Lee-THE BILL LEE???? IDK....:confused:
i bought the original vaquero, in 45 colt, to replace my 629. i have loaded, and fired hundreds of "hot loads", thru it, and have not encountered an issue.

if you want high power loads, get the original frame, if you want a conversation piece, and occassional shooter, go for the new model.

sofbak
08-12-2012, 8:46 PM
You aren't worth the time. The evidence is extensive. Try searching.

Last time I checked, it was still a free country, and you are entitled to your opinion. At least I provided substantiated information instead of trying to blow smoke-second hand smoke at that, up anyone's you-know-what.

But the challenge I presented to you still remains. This time I will couch it in more congenial terms so as not to crush any "tender hearts".

Show me anything in writing from Sturm Ruger Corp. that even addresses the use of reloads, and for ANY of their revolvers. You simply won't find it. Every single manual that is shipped with every last Ruger revolver comes with the following warning:

AMMUTION (CARTRIDGES) NOTICE

WE SPECIFICALLY DISLCAIM RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE OR INJURY WHATSOEVER OCCURIRING IN CONNECTION WITH, OR AS THE RESULT OF, THE USE IN RUGER REVOLVERS OF FAULTY, OR NONSTANDARD, OR “REMANUFACTURED” OR HANDLOADED (RELOADED) AMMUNITION, OR OF CARTRIDGES OTHER THAN THOSE FOR WHICH THE FIREARM WAS ORIGNIALLY CHAMBERED.

So as far as Ruger is concerned there is NO reload acceptable for ANY of their revolvers-vaquero, blackhawk, super blackhawk, or whatever. They won't touch the subject at all, not even with a TEN FOOT POLE.....And for good reason-it's called product liability.

So do you think that Lee, Speer, Lyman and every other reloading related business simply pulled that table out of their individual (or collective) a**es??

So show me-anything that originated from Sturm Ruger-a link, a scanned letter, an e-mail. Anything that validates or restricts those tables for any Ruger revolver........





Still waiting............................

quiet-wyatt
08-12-2012, 9:30 PM
Last time I checked, it was still a free country, and you are entitled to your opinion. At least I provided substantiated information instead of trying to blow smoke-second hand smoke at that, up anyone's you-know-what.

But the challenge I presented to you still remains. This time I will couch it in more congenial terms so as not to crush any "tender hearts".

Show me anything in writing from Sturm Ruger Corp. that even addresses the use of reloads, and for ANY of their revolvers. You simply won't find it. Every single manual that is shipped with every last Ruger revolver comes with the following warning:

AMMUTION (CARTRIDGES) NOTICE

WE SPECIFICALLY DISLCAIM RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE OR INJURY WHATSOEVER OCCURIRING IN CONNECTION WITH, OR AS THE RESULT OF, THE USE IN RUGER REVOLVERS OF FAULTY, OR NONSTANDARD, OR “REMANUFACTURED” OR HANDLOADED (RELOADED) AMMUNITION, OR OF CARTRIDGES OTHER THAN THOSE FOR WHICH THE FIREARM WAS ORIGNIALLY CHAMBERED.

So as far as Ruger is concerned there is NO reload acceptable for ANY of their revolvers-vaquero, blackhawk, super blackhawk, or whatever. They won't touch the subject at all, not even with a TEN FOOT POLE.....And for good reason-it's called product liability.

So do you think that Lee, Speer, Lyman and every other reloading related business simply pulled that table out of their individual (or collective) a**es??

So show me-anything that originated from Sturm Ruger-a link, a scanned letter, an e-mail. Anything that validates or restricts those tables for any Ruger revolver........





Still waiting............................

The "original" Vaquero (discontinued) are a larger frame. The "New Vaquero" is the same size frame as a Colt Single Action Army.

Therefore the "New Vaquero" uses standard pressure loads - always has. It was NOT designed for anything more.

If you want a high-performance gun, buy one that was DESIGNED for high-performance...

23 Blast
08-13-2012, 9:28 AM
I have a polished stainless New Vaquero in .357 with a 5.5" barrel. If I had to do it over again, I'd get a stainless Blackhawk in the shorter 4 5/8" barrel. As far as shooting the Vaquero - it is very pleasant to shoot, even with full-power .357 (factory) loads. With .38's it's positively a *****cat. Very fun gun, and the 5.5" barrel balances a lot better than the Blackhawk I have (also .357) that has the 6.5" barrel.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
08-13-2012, 5:15 PM
There is some indication from Ruger that I was able to find after about two minutes' worth of search time that the New Vaquero is not rated for high-pressure loads. It is second hand, quoted from a Speer loading manual in this discussion thread on Rugerforum.net (http://rugerforum.net/ruger-single-action/17974-new-vaquero-loads.html):

The new Speer #14 reloading manual has a big bold caution in the 45 Colt Ruger & T/C only section. It says:

"Important Safety Note. Since we published the last manual, Ruger has replaced the origional Vaquero revolver with a smaller version called the New Vaquero. Ruger has advised the industry that the New Vaquero must not be fired with loads exceeding industry pressure standards (14,000 psi). If loading for a New Vaquero, use the standard pressure data in the previous data section."

That would seem to answer sofbak's challenge, and I would encourage him to remember his right to remain silent... and to use it, or at least speak with common courtesy as encouraged by this forum.

sofbak
08-13-2012, 6:07 PM
There is some indication from Ruger that I was able to find after about two minutes' worth of search time that the New Vaquero is not rated for high-pressure loads. It is second hand, quoted from a Speer loading manual in this discussion thread on Rugerforum.net (http://rugerforum.net/ruger-single-action/17974-new-vaquero-loads.html):



That would seem to answer sofbak's challenge, and I would encourage him to remember his right to remain silent... and to use it, or at least speak with common courtesy as encouraged by this forum.

All this is just a paraphrase of the same warning that appears in every ruger revolver manual. They would say the same thing "not rated for high-pressure loads" about any other revolver that they manufacture-and they would "advise" the industry in like manner whenever they ask. It is corporate CYA against product liability, and it applies to every model revolver they manufacture and sell.

Case in point. Check the pistol table here for SAAMI spec cartridge pressures:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

The .45 LC load spec pressure limit is 14ksi. But wait, for .357 magnum the spec pressure limit is 35 ksi. The new vaquero comes in both calibers. Do you think that one is manufactured differently to withstand two and a half times the pressure of the other? When the frames are the same? I doubt it.

The point I was trying to make is simply that you will never, ever, ever get Ruger to acknowledge that ANY of their products will withstand high pressure loads above the SAAMI spec for that particular caliber, and they will always, always, always steadfastly warn anyone who asks not to exceed those pressures regardless of the model or the caliber of all their products......So using everyone's logic here, you should just tear those ruger/TC only tables out of your manuals and throw them away-Ruger says they aren't safe. And Lee, Lyman, Speer, et al. have been jeapordizing a lot of lives for lots of years with "unsafe" data.

Nor~Cal
08-13-2012, 7:25 PM
I have the 22, 45lc and the 44 mag New Vaquero Super single Six all old school blued bought them many years ago and have had great fun with all of them, wish I would have bought the 357 at the time but it was not on the shelf, I have shot some hotter loads through the 45lc and the 44mag I have not shot a hotter load through them, but they still are like new
I really do like them

pyromensch
08-13-2012, 8:44 PM
All this is just a paraphrase of the same warning that appears in every ruger revolver manual. They would say the same thing "not rated for high-pressure loads" about any other revolver that they manufacture-and they would "advise" the industry in like manner whenever they ask. It is corporate CYA against product liability, and it applies to every model revolver they manufacture and sell.

Case in point. Check the pistol table here for SAAMI spec cartridge pressures:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm

The .45 LC load spec pressure limit is 14ksi. But wait, for .357 magnum the spec pressure limit is 35 ksi. The new vaquero comes in both calibers. Do you think that one is manufactured differently to withstand two and a half times the pressure of the other? When the frames are the same? I doubt it.

The point I was trying to make is simply that you will never, ever, ever get Ruger to acknowledge that ANY of their products will withstand high pressure loads above the SAAMI spec for that particular caliber, and they will always, always, always steadfastly warn anyone who asks not to exceed those pressures regardless of the model or the caliber of all their products......So using everyone's logic here, you should just tear those ruger/TC only tables out of your manuals and throw them away-Ruger says they aren't safe. And Lee, Lyman, Speer, et al. have been jeapordizing a lot of lives for lots of years with "unsafe" data.

nice point. but do you think that the "extra" metal around the chamber, might account for the the variations, in the pressure that is allowed/ "recommended"?

and the old model of the vaquero, is basically a blackhawk, which, in one version, had a 30 carbine caliber. what do you think are the pressures, that that round produces?

smittty
08-13-2012, 9:07 PM
I suggest shooting a New Model before buying one.

Like the op I shot my friends original vaquero in 45LC and fell in love with it. I ran outand bought myself a New Vaquero in 357mag and after shooting it a few times I ended up selling it.

I had to order it so I didn't get to hold it becore buying. When it came in the gripwas smaller than I would have liked but it was only after shooting it did I learn that it was just too small. I shot friends old model with hot loads but the new model in mild 38 sp didn't point and group well without resting the gun. It was just too small for my admittedly longer than ave fingers.

The other thing I didn't like was the balance and feel of the 357 mag version vs the 45lc version. The 357 mag has a smaller bore dia put the same outside barrel dia meaning the smaller caliber gun weighed noticably more.

After all that I can tell you that I prefer the original vaquero in 45LC. With hot +P rounds it's closer to 44mag performance and the weight and balance feels right. The 45LC New Vaquero isn't rated for +p ammunition. i called ruger and buffalo bore and both said it's only rated for standard pressure ammunition.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
08-13-2012, 10:28 PM
nice point. but do you think that the "extra" metal around the chamber, might account for the the variations, in the pressure that is allowed/ "recommended"?

and the old model of the vaquero, is basically a blackhawk, which, in one version, had a 30 carbine caliber. what do you think are the pressures, that that round produces?

A cogent thought indeed. I would agree that this is possibly why a .357 New Vaquero might be rated for higher pressures than a .45 Colt New Vaquero. I would also note that the quote was specific regarding the .45 Colt pressure standard (14K PSI), not just a generic quote regarding SAAMI pressure limits.

As for the "unsafe" Lee, Lyman, Speer, etc. loads, I would submit that published loads have been found to be not unsafe in the Blackhawk/Old Vaquero frames used to test them; frames much more substantial than the New Vaquero. When looking at any of those loads, even in the OV frames, one must start low and carefully watch for signs of overpressure as powder weight is increased as individual variations between pistols could cause one to show overpressure with a given load and another pistol of the same make and model not to do so. The loader does indeed take a risk when/if exceeding SAAMI specs (and in that sense, I agree with sofbak that such loads are at least potentially unsafe) and has no one to thank but themselves should their firearm perform an catastrophic impromptu self field-strip when using such loads.

Back to the OP, I have run loads through my .357 Vaquero without issue that I would never think about running through a New Vaquero. The difference between the two is significant in my mind and experience.

sofbak
08-14-2012, 10:03 AM
A cogent thought indeed. I would agree that this is possibly why a .357 New Vaquero might be rated for higher pressures than a .45 Colt New Vaquero. I would also note that the quote was specific regarding the .45 Colt pressure standard (14K PSI), not just a generic quote regarding SAAMI pressure limits.......

That would be the first place to point, but I dispelled that last night by two different means.

1. My NV's are dual caliber 45-ruger supplies two cylinders, one for LC and one for acp. The SAAMI spec for LC is 14 ksi, and for acp it is 25 ksi. But in a bench top comparison with a dial caliper, both cylinders are dimensionally equal with the exception of the bore depth for the chambers-the LC bores are deeper to accept the longer case. Wall thickness at throat-identical. Oveall diameter-identical. Overall length-identical. Center-to-center distance between chambers-identical.

So how is it that ruger says that only standard LC loads should be used, when ruger sells an LC revolver that will withstand a 78% increase in pressure by simply switching cylinders to a higher pressure ammo if that cylinder isn't substantially "beefier"?

2. Given that hoop stress at the cylinder wall is the limiting factor on pressure capacity, I did a paramtetric hoop stress comparison for the diffences in diameter of the .357 and .45 cartdiges. The addional cross-sectional area in the wall is not alone enough to carry the extra pressure between the two cartridges (SAAMI spec pressures).

3. Here is some more extrapolated data by boolian logic:

The .357M saami pressure is 35 ksi, so we know the frame on the NV is good to that pressure (unless you believe they make different frames for each caliber of the same model gun).

The additional area in the 357M cylinder wall is not enough by itself to carry the increase in pressure from 45LC.

The maximum pressures listed in the Lee loading manual for the "ruger/TC" only loads top out at 30 ksi-5 ksi less than the standard 357M saami load.


Soooooo, roll all that together, and come to your own conclusions.

Ruger underrates their revos to the specific caliber they were manufactured for. Saves them from lawsuits.

The only way to "know" what they can safely handle is to do some extensive material and mechanical testing on them.

Anyone who parrots the ruger cya mantra of "don't exceed the saami standard load pressure is doing just that-passing on ruger's product liability protection practice.

over and out...............

smittty
08-14-2012, 7:41 PM
Sofbak thats some good research and logical conclusion. I didn't buy the nv in 45lc because I was told it coudn't handle the +P ammo.

After your findings I think it might reconsider.

1970gmc4x4
08-14-2012, 9:47 PM
I agree that the New Model can't handle "hot" loads, the old model was over-built like most rugers and could handle hot loads, but the safe weight and make them smaller they weakened it so only standard loads, if you want a +P rated one just look around and find an older used one, you'll save some money too.

here is a quote from some Buffalo Bore .45colt+P ammo-
All heavy .45colt+P ammunition is to be fired ONLY in ruger large frame, colt anaconda, and freedom arms revolvers, T/C, winchester 94, and marlin 94. NOT for use in the small frame ruger vaquero.

So there it is Buffalo Bore had to mention specifically that the New model vaquero's aren't rate for hot loads. But any other ruger large frame is.

orangeusa
08-14-2012, 10:01 PM
I guess it's your gun to blow up, but when they do, it's not like a squib - the top cylinder blows UP as does the frame.

I'd rather be safe and use the proper ammo for the guns I own.

Soooooo, roll all that together, and come to your own conclusions.

Ruger underrates their revos to the specific caliber they were manufactured for. Saves them from lawsuits.

The only way to "know" what they can safely handle is to do some extensive material and mechanical testing on them.

Anyone who parrots the ruger cya mantra of "don't exceed the saami standard load pressure is doing just that-passing on ruger's product liability protection practice.

over and out...............

quiet-wyatt
08-14-2012, 11:13 PM
That would be the first place to point, but I dispelled that last night by two different means.

1. My NV's are dual caliber 45-ruger supplies two cylinders, one for LC and one for acp. The SAAMI spec for LC is 14 ksi, and for acp it is 25 ksi. But in a bench top comparison with a dial caliper, both cylinders are dimensionally equal with the exception of the bore depth for the chambers-the LC bores are deeper to accept the longer case. Wall thickness at throat-identical. Oveall diameter-identical. Overall length-identical. Center-to-center distance between chambers-identical.

So how is it that ruger says that only standard LC loads should be used, when ruger sells an LC revolver that will withstand a 78% increase in pressure by simply switching cylinders to a higher pressure ammo if that cylinder isn't substantially "beefier"?

2. Given that hoop stress at the cylinder wall is the limiting factor on pressure capacity, I did a paramtetric hoop stress comparison for the diffences in diameter of the .357 and .45 cartdiges. The addional cross-sectional area in the wall is not alone enough to carry the extra pressure between the two cartridges (SAAMI spec pressures).

3. Here is some more extrapolated data by boolian logic:

The .357M saami pressure is 35 ksi, so we know the frame on the NV is good to that pressure (unless you believe they make different frames for each caliber of the same model gun).

The additional area in the 357M cylinder wall is not enough by itself to carry the increase in pressure from 45LC.

The maximum pressures listed in the Lee loading manual for the "ruger/TC" only loads top out at 30 ksi-5 ksi less than the standard 357M saami load.


Soooooo, roll all that together, and come to your own conclusions.

Ruger underrates their revos to the specific caliber they were manufactured for. Saves them from lawsuits.

The only way to "know" what they can safely handle is to do some extensive material and mechanical testing on them.

Anyone who parrots the ruger cya mantra of "don't exceed the saami standard load pressure is doing just that-passing on ruger's product liability protection practice.

over and out...............

But you completely leave out the heat-treatment of the cylinders, etc...

If you think you know more about making guns than Ruger, by all means, shoot your hot loads until it fails in your hands. Just don't do it around innocent bystanders...

Mr_Monkeywrench
08-14-2012, 11:32 PM
I have some pretty sweet shooting Pistols (I.E. SIG P228) and I have to say that my New Ruger Vaquero in .357 mag is my favorite pistol to shoot. I am glad I purchased it and I cant wait til I save enough to get a belt rig for the awesomeness of it. It is dead accurate, soft recoiling, and just plain fun. I think all the weight of the pistol really absorbs the recoil that the .357 throws out.