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sonicenergy
08-11-2012, 12:20 AM
I have a question. would it be illegal if i DIY a single shot, single action .22lr hand gun ?

Chaos47
08-11-2012, 12:34 AM
Sounds like it may fall into the "zip gun" area..

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
(c)(10) As used in this section, a "zip gun" means any weapon or device which meets all of the following criteria:
(A) It was not imported as a firearm by an importer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(B) It was not originally designed to be a firearm by a manufacturer licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(C) No tax was paid on the weapon or device nor was an exemption from paying tax on that weapon or device granted under Section 4181 and Subchapters F (commencing with Section 4216) and G (commencing with Section 4221) of Chapter 32 of Title 26 of the United States Code, as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(D) It is made or altered to expel a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.

9mmrevolver
08-11-2012, 12:45 AM
So if u build an 80% ar pistol u need to pay tax on it?

XDshooter
08-11-2012, 12:45 AM
Generally you are covered by the fact a home built gun doesn't meet the requirement of part "C". No tax required to be paid.

Someone will have to look up the exemptions in the US Code to be sure.

9mmrevolver
08-11-2012, 12:58 AM
Generally you are covered by the fact a home built gun doesn't meet the requirement of part "C". No tax required to be paid.

Someone will have to look up the exemptions in the US Code to be sure.

Wouldn't mind reading that.

Chaos47
08-11-2012, 1:01 AM
So if u build an 80% ar pistol u need to pay tax on it?

No one is going to try to book you under zip gun for having an 80% AR.

There's a difference between building a single shot pistol out of a piece of pipe and milling out the FCG pocket of commonly known design of semi auto centerfire.

Even if the 80% forging company intend it to be a "paperweight" and not a firearm you the manufacturer did and therefore you would not fulfill (B)

9mmrevolver
08-11-2012, 1:10 AM
What you said kind of contradicts itself. "you the manufactuerer" intended to make that piece of pipe for a firearm. Assuming the piece of pipe would be the receiver and chopping down an existing rifles barrel. It would be a piece of cake using a 10/22 barrel.

Chaos47
08-11-2012, 1:35 AM
What you said kind of contradicts itself. "you the manufactuerer" intended to make that piece of pipe for a firearm. Assuming the piece of pipe would be the receiver and chopping down an existing rifles barrel. It would be a piece of cake using a 10/22 barrel.

You can try to take my words and twist them but you are even doing a poor job at that.

"intended to make that piece of pipe for a firearm"
You are not making that piece of pipe. Its a pre-existing piece of pipe.

Generally the tube is the barrel, no real receiver to speak of.
Just the ability to hold the round and a means to fire it.

zip gun
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Maglite_zip_gun.jpg/150px-Maglite_zip_gun.jpg

zip gun
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q_rtuNNYBBk/SsuBLi3tttI/AAAAAAAAAxY/x8p08zfx8G8/s400/zipgun2.jpg

zip gun
http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/homemadezipgun.jpg

AR-15
https://www.vbd.com/noc/images/products/28654437.jpg

Is it really that hard to tell the difference?

XDshooter
08-11-2012, 2:02 PM
No one is going to try to book you under zip gun for having an 80% AR.

There's a difference between building a single shot pistol out of a piece of pipe and milling out the FCG pocket of commonly known design of semi auto centerfire.

Even if the 80% forging company intend it to be a "paperweight" and not a firearm you the manufacturer did and therefore you would not fulfill (B)

He would not be a manufacturer according to part (B). Part (B) only applies to manufacturers that are:
licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.Meaning certain FFLs.


The only parts that can exempt home-builds and one-offs is part (C) no tax required to be paid, part (B) if it was ever an FFL manufactured firearm or (A) if it was imported by a licensed firearm importer. So guns that not brought into the US by the proper importers would be zip guns.

XDshooter
08-11-2012, 2:07 PM
You can try to take my words and twist them but you are even doing a poor job at that.

"intended to make that piece of pipe for a firearm"
You are not making that piece of pipe. Its a pre-existing piece of pipe.

Generally the tube is the barrel, no real receiver to speak of.
Just the ability to hold the round and a means to fire it.

zip gun

zip gun

zip gun

AR-15

Is it really that hard to tell the difference?


The first two (flashlight and pen) are illegal by another law.
12020
(a)Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1)Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any fléchette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.



The 3rd one looks like a firearm to me. If it is a home built gun and no tax was required to be paid, then it would be legal, unless some other prevents it from being legal.

9mmrevolver
08-11-2012, 2:12 PM
You can try to take my words and twist them but you are even doing a poor job at that.

"intended to make that piece of pipe for a firearm"
You are not making that piece of pipe. Its a pre-existing piece of pipe.

Generally the tube is the barrel, no real receiver to speak of.
Just the ability to hold the round and a means to fire it.

zip gun
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Maglite_zip_gun.jpg/150px-Maglite_zip_gun.jpg

zip gun
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_q_rtuNNYBBk/SsuBLi3tttI/AAAAAAAAAxY/x8p08zfx8G8/s400/zipgun2.jpg

zip gun
http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/homemadezipgun.jpg

AR-15
https://www.vbd.com/noc/images/products/28654437.jpg

Is it really that hard to tell the difference?

Wasn't trying to twist them just trying to understand. Here is how I understand it now. Make a pen into a gun and go to jail. Make a gun out of scrap steel and good to go as long as you can tell its a gun