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Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 5:35 PM
Where are the protests? Where are the picketers on the capitol steps? Where is the huge, concerned crowd of gun owners?

I'm ugly. I can't be a spokesman...but for Pete's sake: Somebody who knows how to file for protest permits get ON THIS! Tell me where to go, and I'll be there!

This letter writing campaign is NOT getting the message out. Most of my letters are returned with "Sorry, not in my district!"

Where is our physical presence? Where are our leaders? Somebody step up, and let's fight this with a show of force! There's got to be somebody here who has done this before, or is married to someone who has done this before...WHY AREN'T WE FIGHTING THIS ON THE STREET?

Post a date, post a time, and I'll be there. I'll use vacation time. Yeah, I'm not a OWS guy with no job, no responsibilities, and no people counting on him for support, but I'll be there.

We can't give up ONE DAY to publicly protest?

Somebody: PLEASE step up! I'll help, I'll carry signs, I'll stand around and support, but I'm fat and ugly, and NOT a good spokesman.

With all the wealthy bluebloods on this site, we don't have ONE charismatic person that can lead this charge? Must it always be "Sign this! Email this! Send us money!" while we get nothing done?

Why are we not protesting in force?

Are we all too busy?

soopafly
08-08-2012, 5:40 PM
Because picketing the capitol steps IS NOT the most effective way to influence legislators.

Also, where do you get the idea that we're not actively fighting SB249?:confused:

NotEnufGarage
08-08-2012, 5:43 PM
Wow. 9 whole posts and you're questioning what's happening here.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

mud99
08-08-2012, 5:43 PM
Dude, It has been less than 24 hours since this pig started to fly.

We are all frustrated but we need to coordinate this not just run to the capitol steps tomorrow. We have definite leaders on here and they are doing way more than you could possibly imagine.

Bruceisontarget
08-08-2012, 5:50 PM
Because picketing the capitol steps IS NOT the most effective way to influence legislators.

Also, where do you get the idea that we're not actively fighting SB249?:confused:

Not true... remember when KSFO organized the protest of Car Check 2? Massive protests got that one killed right away. I wrote Brian Sussman at KSFO on the issue and I plan to write Melanie Morgan (the woman who got the recall of Gray Devious going). I think writing to assembly critters and Senate bozos isn't gonna get it done. We need to get the right media people roused out of their slumber.

Anchors
08-08-2012, 5:53 PM
The other problem is most gun owners are upstanding citizens with jobs, school, and/or families.

Unlike occupiers, illegals, etc who all seemingly have unlimited time to protest (maybe because they're on tr dole? I don't know), most of us have other stuff to do.

But I interact with a few hundred gun owners a day at work so I've been trying to get the information out there.

I have seen first hand how many people don't even know they have illegal weapons from the existing AWB. They figured since they bought them legally or do long ago that it didn't matter. Or they didn't even hear about it at all.

A lot of guys bought an AR and an AK, threw them in the safe, and too got busy with life to shoot. Then they got back into it years later only to find they're now active felons.

It is really quite frustrating for these people and all I can do is tell them they're basically hosed out of a rifle.

Anchors
08-08-2012, 5:54 PM
Sorry for the typos. I'm on my iphone

soopafly
08-08-2012, 5:54 PM
Not true...
I should have qualified my statement...

On gun related issues, picketing the Capitol steps IS NOT the most effective way to influence legislators.

G60
08-08-2012, 5:58 PM
Srsly?

Merc1138
08-08-2012, 5:59 PM
The other problem is most gun owners are upstanding citizens with jobs, school, and/or families.


Bingo.

If this were a bill banning hobos sleeping in public or something, you'd see tons of jobless individuals with nothing better to do camping out for weeks at a time in protest. While I think it is important to fight anti 2a laws, most gun owners that I know have aspects of their lives that don't revolve around guns and as such don't have the time to go picket for a week.

ProlificARProspect
08-08-2012, 6:00 PM
Wow NO Bueno!

I wonder if my mail will be returned as well. With SB249 effecting the whole state these politicians from the appropriations committee, Assembly members and Authors/Co-Authors need to here from the People of the State of California. Talk about taxation and legislation without representation!
Where are the protests? Where are the picketers on the capitol steps? Where is the huge, concerned crowd of gun owners?

I'm ugly. I can't be a spokesman...but for Pete's sake: Somebody who knows how to file for protest permits get ON THIS! Tell me where to go, and I'll be there!

This letter writing campaign is NOT getting the message out. Most of my letters are returned with "Sorry, not in my district!"

Where is our physical presence? Where are our leaders? Somebody step up, and let's fight this with a show of force! There's got to be somebody here who has done this before, or is married to someone who has done this before...WHY AREN'T WE FIGHTING THIS ON THE STREET?

Post a date, post a time, and I'll be there. I'll use vacation time. Yeah, I'm not a OWS guy with no job, no responsibilities, and no people counting on him for support, but I'll be there.

We can't give up ONE DAY to publicly protest?

Somebody: PLEASE step up! I'll help, I'll carry signs, I'll stand around and support, but I'm fat and ugly, and NOT a good spokesman.

With all the wealthy bluebloods on this site, we don't have ONE charismatic person that can lead this charge? Must it always be "Sign this! Email this! Send us money!" while we get nothing done?

Why are we not protesting in force?

Are we all too busy?

reptilla
08-08-2012, 6:01 PM
I totally understand what the op point is.....if there is a date and time set I will be there to. I will take time off work and go. We should be out in big numbers! This country was built on people standing up for them selfs and doing it together!

curtisfong
08-08-2012, 6:02 PM
MEGAFAIL

I should have qualified my statement...

On gun related issues, picketing the Capitol steps IS NOT the most effective way to influence legislators.

Oh, no, it influences legislators all right

http://i.imgur.com/ukix8.jpg

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:02 PM
Wow. 9 whole posts and you're questioning what's happening here.


Really? That's your response?
Ok...I guess my reply would have to be along the same lines: "Wow. I've been a member here longer than you, junior." :rolleyes:

HBrebel
08-08-2012, 6:06 PM
holding signs on the corner just gives them crap to laugh at, "oh look, the peasants are revolting" many of us do everything we can to reach out to other gun owners, donate to pro-gun legislators, make phone calls to legislators, constant email bombs, I have taken to writing directly to my legislators via real mail and requesting interviews with them. Plus, we have a second amendment in our contestation which states that our right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. To me, an infringement on my 2A right means a breach of contract by the government. I don't about where you work but if I break my contract with the boss i get fired.

HBrebel
08-08-2012, 6:08 PM
plus by doing these protests you are acting like a child asking for permission to do something. I don't care what this jerk Yee does, I will not comply....You can do what's right or you can do what they tell you to do.

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:10 PM
I totally understand what the op point is.....if there is a date and time set I will be there to. I will take time off work and go. We should be out in big numbers! This country was built on people standing up for them selfs and doing it together!

That's two of us. Let's get more.

I don't care so much if it's effective...is anybody else tired of going down without saying we did EVERYTHING we could?

Are we really concerned with "effectivity"? We're signing ONLINE PETITIONS...!

Fellow gun owners, I get that we aren't OWS. I get that we work. But isn't it worth a vacation day or two to show the State some numbers? Some voice? Some presence? Some faces behind the 'online petition'?

We got lawyers on this: Awesome. We got rich people donating money to them to work the issue: Fantastic. What about us commoners? Why can't we help out? Why can't we make our presence known?

How is this going to make us look bad?

How is creating YouTube videos, Tweets, and FaceBook posting considered "good publicity", but actually showing up with a physical presence detrimental?

Why are most of us just laying down?

Donate the money! I get that the battle will be fought in higher courts...but isn't anybody else tired of just clicking their mouse to show their anger over this? Why can't we do both?

ProlificARProspect
08-08-2012, 6:11 PM
That was the black panthers 1st and 2nd amendment right to protest and make a political statement. What was the outcome? A political knee jerk and racist reaction from Sacramento politicians! All the laws that prevented open carry of rifles in the State capital are inspired (like all Anti-Gun laws) from racism and fear from the unknown socially or culturally.

Kind of cynical when Yee is pulling the race card... When Gun Control has it's origination in preventing guns to a certain race at a certain time in our history.

MEGAFAIL



Oh, no, it influences legislators all right

http://i.imgur.com/ukix8.jpg

ShooterDK
08-08-2012, 6:11 PM
MEGAFAIL



Oh, no, it influences legislators all right

http://i.imgur.com/ukix8.jpg

Yep!

lithium381
08-08-2012, 6:12 PM
MEGAFAIL



Oh, no, it influences legislators all right

http://i.imgur.com/ukix8.jpg

soon we won't be allowd to open carry long-guns i saw another anti2a bill in the making . . . .

it is going to be coming to a breaking point soon though, with all of the other stuff going on in the country. . .

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:12 PM
plus by doing these protests you are acting like a child asking for permission to do something. I don't care what this jerk Yee does, I will not comply....You can do what's right or you can do what they tell you to do.

The difference between you and I is that I will not be made a criminal. I will comply with the laws of this State while I live in it.

...but this doesn't mean we can't protest against the darned thing before it's passed!

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:19 PM
Why don't we stop thinking of reasons NOT to do this, and come up with a date and time, and get some pledges to be there?

Is activism only from the seat of the computer chair, now?

I'm not trying to be insulting to those of the site who are actively, legally engaged in trying to kill this thing. I respect what you all are doing, in your own legal arenas.

I'm talking about all of us little people: Workers, retirees, students, fathers, stay-at-home Dads...everybody that cares, that isn't already actively engaged on this thing!

I get the letter writing campaign: you get to send off a letter, and then pat yourself on the back and say that you did something. It's good consolation, balm for the soul when this thing passes.

Think how much better you'll feel after you've actively protested this! You'll be able to say to others "I was there--where were you when they killed our rifles?"

What are you going to say? "I wrote a letter"?

Let's put people on the capitol steps!

Let's make some signs! Let's get some news crews out there!

Where the heck are all the concerned California gun owners?! If we can't take a day off to protest, do you think they're that worried about our vote?

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:29 PM
Bingo.

If this were a bill banning hobos sleeping in public or something, you'd see tons of jobless individuals with nothing better to do camping out for weeks at a time in protest. While I think it is important to fight anti 2a laws, most gun owners that I know have aspects of their lives that don't revolve around guns and as such don't have the time to go picket for a week.

Forget about a week: One day. One glorious day, where we put a thousand people on the steps of the capitol. Can we not do that? How important is this stuff to you guys?

I'm lower middle class, but I've been a shooter my whole life. I was stationed in Japan when they slid the first California ban on me, and it cost me a Colt Sporter HBAR, an HK91, and an AK. I didn't get a chance to protest that one--or even know about it--until it was too late.

At this point in my life, I'm about $10K in for these firearms. It's what I DO. I can't be the only one! Are we really going to just sit behind our computers and say "Darn, it passed! And I did that FaceBook thing, too."

383green
08-08-2012, 6:31 PM
Really? That's your response?
Ok...I guess my reply would have to be along the same lines: "Wow. I've been a member here longer than you, junior." :rolleyes:

Folks who have been here a while have already seen protests suggested dozens of times. And they've also seen the arguments against them dozens of times. That's why your post count came up; this topic isn't even remotely new. Protesting on the steps of the capitol building just isn't a very effective way to swing CA legislators' votes on gun laws in the direction that we want, so instead, we apply our efforts in more productive ways. We're playing chess, not checkers.

SB249 is being actively fought; you're just not aware of everything that's going on just yet, some of it behind the scenes where most of us don't see it happening. In fact, it's already been shot down in flames twice by my count, and the latest iteration is a complete gutting and rewrite. The latest version tries to be more far-reaching then the previous versions... so far-reaching, in fact, that it has a good chance of backfiring badly on the anti-2A crowd.

Keep on hanging out in here and fighting the good fight with us! The longer you hang out here, the more easily you'll be able to see the significance of some seemingly minor things that actually have profound implications. We have some really good strategists on our side. A lot of what goes on is out of the limelight. Also, "legal time" passes a lot more slowly than "internet time", so there are long periods of time in which it seems like nothing is happening (even though it is), punctuated by brief periods of lots of excitement (like this one). Compared to how long it has taken to build the house of gun control, we're actually knocking it back down pretty quickly. Things were a lot more bleak a mere decade ago than they are now, and we're still barely beginning to build up momentum.

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:35 PM
Dude, It has been less than 24 hours since this pig started to fly.

We are all frustrated but we need to coordinate this not just run to the capitol steps tomorrow. We have definite leaders on here and they are doing way more than you could possibly imagine.

I get that...but where is it written that we can only fight this thing at certain levels? Why can we not rage against this on ALL fronts? Are our definite leaders on here that are doing way more than I could possibly imagine so assured of their victory that they do not need our help? If that's true, let me know...and I'll just apologize, and back out of the thread slowly.

Here's the facts: Every time this thing is rewritten, it hurts more. Everyone expects this to be approved. Why are we just rolling over? How can a peaceful, one day protest HURT us?

soopafly
08-08-2012, 6:37 PM
We're playing chess, not checkers.

Or more accurately: while the anti's are playing checkers, our side is playing go (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(game)).;)

Ironic, considering Yee's ethnic heritage, no?

NotEnufGarage
08-08-2012, 6:42 PM
Really? That's your response?
Ok...I guess my reply would have to be along the same lines: "Wow. I've been a member here longer than you, junior." :rolleyes:

And my response would be to read before posting. There is a lotgoing on, in public and behind the scenes. See what is happening before criticizing othersfor inaction.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

jdberger
08-08-2012, 6:42 PM
This letter writing campaign is NOT getting the message out. Most of my letters are returned with "Sorry, not in my district!"

Why are we not protesting in force?

Are we all too busy?

Please send copies of the aforementioned letters to me at jdberger(at)hotmail(dot)com

Thx

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:43 PM
Folks who have been here a while have already seen protests suggested dozens of times. And they've also seen the arguments against them dozens of times. That's why your post count came up; this topic isn't even remotely new. Protesting on the steps of the capitol building just isn't a very effective way to swing CA legislators' votes on gun laws in the direction that we want, so instead, we apply our efforts in more productive ways. We're playing chess, not checkers.

SB249 is being actively fought; you're just not aware of everything that's going on just yet, some of it behind the scenes where most of us don't see it happening. In fact, it's already been shot down in flames twice by my count, and the latest iteration is a complete gutting and rewrite. The latest version tries to be more far-reaching then the previous versions... so far-reaching, in fact, that it has a good chance of backfiring badly on the anti-2A crowd.

Keep on hanging out in here and fighting the good fight with us! The longer you hang out here, the more easily you'll be able to see the significance of some seemingly minor things that actually have profound implications. We have some really good strategists on our side. A lot of what goes on is out of the limelight. Also, "legal time" passes a lot more slowly than "internet time", so there are long periods of time in which it seems like nothing is happening (even though it is), punctuated by brief periods of lots of excitement (like this one). Compared to how long it has taken to build the house of gun control, we're actually knocking it back down pretty quickly. Things were a lot more bleak a mere decade ago than they are now, and we're still barely beginning to build up momentum.

Thank you for your well thought out response.

Respectfully, I disagree...but I really appreciate the way you said it.

Let the big minds play chess. I realize there is some sort of long term battle being fought behind the lines that just seems trivially ineffective to outsiders. While that's being done, let's get all the soldiers, all of us little people with no head for complicated board games on the steps, and make our collective voice heard!

ONE DAY, people. Are we really against this?

motorwerks
08-08-2012, 6:46 PM
Where are the protests? Where are the picketers on the capitol steps? Where is the huge, concerned crowd of gun owners?


We're at work.

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:49 PM
Please send copies of the aforementioned letters to me at jdberger(at)hotmail(dot)com

Thx

I know this is going to sound like a copout, but I had sent these out during iteration (2) of this bill, before it was passed by the Safety Committee, and have deleted them from my work computer. I may still have the single solitary support letter I received back from Hagman--I kept it for awhile to show other gunowners I work with that we weren't alone.

I'm a mid-shift worker: If I still have it, I'll send it to you tonight.

I'm not even going to act insulted that you're calling me a liar in your cute, off-handed, dismissive way.
(Perhaps you could just tell me where my idea is wrong, instead of just trying to undermine a supporter)

BTW: I love your quote! "90% of winning is simply showing up." Shall we put it to the test? Let's show up on the steps.

I didn't come on here to insult anybody. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

ProlificARProspect
08-08-2012, 6:52 PM
I'm with you, I do think Gun owners need to mobilize to form a physical protest in the State capital. This don't throw me into the briar patch is BS!

They(the anti-gun crowd) own the courts, we have seen now that even the Supreme Court is leaning Left. With the November election around the corner and some key appointments of the SCOTUS on the line, California gun groups shouldn't count on the courts to overturn anything.

We must fight on all fronts before it's too late! Look at all the so called game changers(Nordyke, Richards v. Harris) to challenge California gun laws. The battle is here, we can stop this here with the help of all Gun Owners. In the courts it's time and money and key presidential appointments to the courts to favor us.
Why don't we stop thinking of reasons NOT to do this, and come up with a date and time, and get some pledges to be there?

Is activism only from the seat of the computer chair, now?

I'm not trying to be insulting to those of the site who are actively, legally engaged in trying to kill this thing. I respect what you all are doing, in your own legal arenas.

I'm talking about all of us little people: Workers, retirees, students, fathers, stay-at-home Dads...everybody that cares, that isn't already actively engaged on this thing!

I get the letter writing campaign: you get to send off a letter, and then pat yourself on the back and say that you did something. It's good consolation, balm for the soul when this thing passes.

Think how much better you'll feel after you've actively protested this! You'll be able to say to others "I was there--where were you when they killed our rifles?"

What are you going to say? "I wrote a letter"?

Let's put people on the capitol steps!

Let's make some signs! Let's get some news crews out there!

Where the heck are all the concerned California gun owners?! If we can't take a day off to protest, do you think they're that worried about our vote?

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 6:52 PM
We're at work.

I get this...I work too! It's easy for OWS, etcetera, because they don't have responsibilities like we do...but we can't donate ONE day of vacation, or sick leave? ONE DAY to protest? Isn't this important enough? I'm not talking about all the important people with ultra-important, mega-million dollar jobs they're in the middle of that would completely fall apart if they went missing for 24 hours...I'm talking about us little people. Aircraft workers, dishwashers, bartenders, insurance salesmen, shopowners...ONE DAY?

ProlificARProspect
08-08-2012, 6:53 PM
We're at work.
Are you going to be at work when they come for your guns?



`

cmaynes
08-08-2012, 6:55 PM
so how exactly are they going to fund the enforcement of this law?

POLICESTATE
08-08-2012, 6:58 PM
We're just waiting for the first generation of Americans to stop spinning in their graves and once the Revolutionary Army of Zombies led by none-other than President AND General George ****ing Washington himself (although look a little worse for wear) to forms up, yeah we'll see a restoration across the land! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Where are the protests? Where are the picketers on the capitol steps? Where is the huge, concerned crowd of gun owners?

I'm ugly. I can't be a spokesman...but for Pete's sake: Somebody who knows how to file for protest permits get ON THIS! Tell me where to go, and I'll be there!

This letter writing campaign is NOT getting the message out. Most of my letters are returned with "Sorry, not in my district!"

Where is our physical presence? Where are our leaders? Somebody step up, and let's fight this with a show of force! There's got to be somebody here who has done this before, or is married to someone who has done this before...WHY AREN'T WE FIGHTING THIS ON THE STREET?

Post a date, post a time, and I'll be there. I'll use vacation time. Yeah, I'm not a OWS guy with no job, no responsibilities, and no people counting on him for support, but I'll be there.

We can't give up ONE DAY to publicly protest?

Somebody: PLEASE step up! I'll help, I'll carry signs, I'll stand around and support, but I'm fat and ugly, and NOT a good spokesman.

With all the wealthy bluebloods on this site, we don't have ONE charismatic person that can lead this charge? Must it always be "Sign this! Email this! Send us money!" while we get nothing done?

Why are we not protesting in force?

Are we all too busy?

Mendo223
08-08-2012, 7:01 PM
If they set a day i will be there in suit and tie .....just set the date! We are going to know for sure how serious things will get this week...

wildhawker
08-08-2012, 7:05 PM
Wanna fight? Sign up and show up. http://calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer.

Real grassroots is hard work and rarely sexy.

-Brandon

383green
08-08-2012, 7:08 PM
Allow me to present a small hint: There are certain people here who are understood to be very heavily involved in the out-of-the-limelight stuff where we make our best gains. And occasionally, one of those people will make a seemingly innocuous request, such as "please send me copies of certain letters that you received from a particular office", or "could sombody go apply for a such-and-such at some particular agency, and keep good records?".

When one of those requests is made, that's when you get a brief glimpse at what's going on behind the scenes, and that's when you know that they're up to something that, if it goes as planned, may blindside our opposition in an interesting way. So when you see certain people make certain kinds of requests, be very interested.

Was that enough lines for you to read between? ;)

You don't even need to be any good at chess to play an important role in the game. Even a pawn can threaten the king if he's placed just right.

383green
08-08-2012, 7:11 PM
P.S.: I'm just a pawn. But I love watching the knights sneak up on the enemy king and kick him in the privates. :43:

ProlificARProspect
08-08-2012, 7:12 PM
Your missing something: California gun owner/1st Amendment athlète manifestant:chris:

we need a physical presence, a well coordinated protest.

How can you help? *

STOP SB 249 Campaign Regional "Hub"/Distribution (accept bulk from CGF, distrib to local dropoff runners)
STOP SB 249 Campaign FFL/Range/Business Local Runner/Dropoffs
STOP SB 249 Campaign materials graphics designer/photos/videos
Attorney pro-bono/reduced rate
Educational content/technical writer
Grassroots events organizing and support
Website development (Drupal/WordPress), web development, general tech/IT
Photography/video/motion graphics
Social networking (Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, LinkedIn, etc.)
Data entry, general admin
Paralegal/clerk/researcher
Editor/features writer
Proofreader
Other:

Wanna fight? Sign up and show up. http://calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer.

Real grassroots is hard work and rarely sexy.

-Brandon

Nodda Duma
08-08-2012, 7:49 PM
I'm not even going to act insulted that you're calling me a liar in your cute, off-handed, dismissive way.
(Perhaps you could just tell me where my idea is wrong, instead of just trying to undermine a supporter)


He's not calling you a liar at all, and you need to do A LOT of reading of old threads in this forum. Like 6 years' worth of reading. At some point during that process, you will understand what's going on.

When jdberger requests documentation, that means he would like to review it to determine if there is anything of value which can aid in stopping gun control legislation. This isn't high school, internet bluster, or Hollywood. This is the real world.

-Jason

Wrangler John
08-08-2012, 7:50 PM
Not true... remember when KSFO organized the protest of Car Check 2? Massive protests got that one killed right away. I wrote Brian Sussman at KSFO on the issue and I plan to write Melanie Morgan (the woman who got the recall of Gray Devious going). I think writing to assembly critters and Senate bozos isn't gonna get it done. We need to get the right media people roused out of their slumber.

I heard Brian Sussman and Melanie Morgan discuss SB 249 and Yee this morning (IIRC), so they are on it.

Mrs. Wrangler and I were there for the Smog Check II rally, and it was quite an experience. One CHP officer said it was quite different than the rest of the demonstrations he had seen, because when the crowd broke up the Capitol grounds were cleaner than they were when we arrived. Smog Check II/MTBE was a much less controversial issue than "assault weapons" so it shook up the Capitol without the connotation of a threat.

However, trust me on this, you can count on a few bozos showing up in camouflage or dressed in weird attire, or worse carrying EBR's, even toy models, that portrays gun owners as dangerous and wacky. Indeed, some ringers will doubtless be there from the anti-gun side to make us look crazy with outrageous signs and dress (as was done during the TEA party attendance at town hall meetings). Those are the people the media cameras will focus on, the nuttier the better. They will edit interviews to support their bias, so that the rational and concerned citizens comments will end up discarded. Once you go public on the street, all control of the dialog is lost. I have had experience with the media in my official capacity and they are not your friends.

5thgen4runner
08-08-2012, 7:55 PM
I protest daily by talking about civil rights, and sharing my knowledge about firearms to whoever will listen, and referring people to Calguns. I treat 2a rights like Christianity you don't convert people overnight you just lay the truth seed and pray for growth.

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 8:02 PM
He's not calling you a liar at all, and you need to do A LOT of reading of old threads in this forum. Like 6 years' worth of reading. At some point during that process, you will understand what's going on.

When jdberger requests documentation, that means he would like to review it to determine if there is anything of value which can aid in stopping gun control legislation. This isn't high school, internet bluster, or Hollywood. This is the real world.

-Jason

I stand corrected. Thank you, Sir.

Bruceisontarget
08-08-2012, 8:03 PM
I heard Brian Sussman and Melanie Morgan discuss SB 249 and Yee this morning (IIRC), so they are on it.

Mrs. Wrangler and I were there for the Smog Check II rally, and it was quite an experience. One CHP officer said it was quite different than the rest of the demonstrations he had seen, because when the crowd broke up the Capitol grounds were cleaner than they were when we arrived.

However, trust me on this, you can count on a few bozos showing up in camouflage or dressed in weird attire that portrays gun owners as wacky. Indeed, some ringers will doubtless be there from the anti-gun side to make us look crazy with outrageous signs and dress (as was done during the TEA party attendance at town hall meetings). Those are the people the media cameras will focus on, the nuttier the better. They will edit interviews to support their bias, so that the rational and concerned citizens comments will end up discarded. Once you go public on the street, all control of the dialog is lost. I have had experience with the media in my official capacity and they are not your friends.


I see your points. You express them well. I was part of the Tea Party movement... still am. We controlled the yahooos pretty well back in '09. Also the interloper disrupters were handled by the police at our request to prevent violence. I don't think it would be easy getting our points across by mass protest, but the way we're going right now, the message isn't getting through to the people it needs to.

Wiz-of-Awd
08-08-2012, 8:15 PM
I think writing to assembly critters and Senate bozos isn't gonna get it done. We need to get the right media people roused out of their slumber.

Yes.

A.W.D.

taperxz
08-08-2012, 8:18 PM
Many hours have been put in to defeat this as well as many more needed. Its happening.

socalgunjunky
08-08-2012, 8:41 PM
It is IMHO, that a protest is not the answer. Look at what the people that wet out with their uoc. This to me brought un necessary attention. People I believe that the good people from cgn, crpa, NRA are doing what needs to be done to defeat the bad bill. Just my .02.

creekside
08-08-2012, 8:51 PM
Allow me to present a small hint: There are certain people here who are understood to be very heavily involved in the out-of-the-limelight stuff where we make our best gains. And occasionally, one of those people will make a seemingly innocuous request...

When one of those requests is made, that's when you get a brief glimpse at what's going on behind the scenes, and that's when you know that they're up to something that, if it goes as planned, may blindside our opposition in an interesting way. So when you see certain people make certain kinds of requests, be very interested.

Was that enough lines for you to read between? ;)

I am not even a pawn, just an interested bystander. People who support gun rights in California are playing chess, not checkers, and there are a lot of moving pieces both in front of the scenes and behind the scenes.

Eat where the big trucks are parked. Go to http://stopsb249.org/ and follow the directions there.

Most important: if there's a general call out by the Right People (of whom I am not one!) to NOT do a certain thing, DO NOT DO THAT THING. Of especial interest recently was a general call to stop discussing technical details of the SB249 legislation while it was being amended.

Another in-joke has to do with timing. "When do we get [positive change]?" is the question. The answer is always the same:

"Two weeks."

motorwerks
08-08-2012, 9:01 PM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/319437_10150991936170994_577507245_n.jpg

just saw this on facebook.

383green
08-08-2012, 9:19 PM
Regarding the request to not discuss technical details, I saw that sticky after I had already posted several times with my own interpretations of those details. Once I saw it, I went back and edited those posts of mine to clear them out. I hope that I didn't do any damage to our cause accidentally! I don't think I have the chops to come up with anything that our opponents shouldn't be able to figure out themselves, but why take chances? I did notice one figure that I threw around appear in some of the Twitter shenanigans, but that's probably just a coincidence. :whistling:

We actually do engage in protests sometimes, but they're usually not the typical picket line in front of the courthouse stuff. We have found that kind of stuff tends to be wasted effort at best in the CA gun rights arena, and is easily turned against us by our opponents. As mentioned above, our opponents don't play fair. They spin the coverage to make us look bad, and they put in plants to skew our image. Marching around with signs on the street engages our opponents where they are the strongest, with willing help from the media.

When we do protests, they tend to be a bit more inventive than that. One of those guys who I mentioned who asks the kinds of innocuous questions that I referred to has a quote from me in his signature. That quote came from one of those unconventional protests. That was a fun one... :chris:

I guess you might say that we have a protest going on right now, too. It's not playing out on the sidewalk in Sacramento, though. It's playing out online, on Facebook, Twitter, and probably some other places. Why don't you come join the fun if you're not already hanging out there? I'm just watching right now, but the verbal sparring going on is entertaining. Follow @CalgunsFDN and @StopSB249 on Twitter to see some of that action.

Sixtigers
08-08-2012, 9:22 PM
Okay...so as not to curtail the bigger picture, what is the concensus of the Chess Players on this (inre Facebook Sacramento Muster)? Is this something that should be attended, or would doing so hurt our cause?

I would appreciate feedback. I will do this, but it's an 8 hour trip for me (one way). I'd need to know soon. The wife is an AR shooter and SKS owner, as well, and will be coming with me (should the CPs determine this is something that would help).

wildhawker
08-08-2012, 9:29 PM
I'm going to be amused if Sen. Yee does the prudent thing and waives presentation on the bill. All those people with sore asses sitting in Approps all day long for nothing.

Committee testimony will not beat SB 249.

-Brandon

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/319437_10150991936170994_577507245_n.jpg

just saw this on facebook.

jdberger
08-08-2012, 9:31 PM
I know this is going to sound like a copout, but I had sent these out during iteration (2) of this bill, before it was passed by the Safety Committee, and have deleted them from my work computer. I may still have the single solitary support letter I received back from Hagman--I kept it for awhile to show other gunowners I work with that we weren't alone.

I'm a mid-shift worker: If I still have it, I'll send it to you tonight.

I'm not even going to act insulted that you're calling me a liar in your cute, off-handed, dismissive way.
(Perhaps you could just tell me where my idea is wrong, instead of just trying to undermine a supporter)

BTW: I love your quote! "90% of winning is simply showing up." Shall we put it to the test? Let's show up on the steps.

I didn't come on here to insult anybody. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

When I call people liars, I'm not subtle.

If you still have the letters, please send them. If they were simply standard response form email replies, I'm not interested. I'm looking for actual responses, not auto-replies.

Thanks.

383green
08-08-2012, 9:33 PM
I hope that one of the chess players drops in here to make a recommendation. I can say that I am not personally inclined to participate in a typical picket line protest, after seeing how media spin and outright sabotage is so often employed to make those backfire. I think it would be wasted effort at best, and possibly even detrimental. I won't try to stop GOC from having their protest; it's a free country, after all. I'm going to follow the folks who I perceive to make real gains, rather than any of the various groups of folks who grandstand a lot but don't seem to serve any useful purpose.

SocomM4
08-09-2012, 8:11 AM
Some of the responses in this thread made me physically ill.

What a disgusting display of complacency , get your head out of your asses and DO something besides telling people to stay at home and hope it all works out.

sharxbyte
08-09-2012, 8:30 AM
Not true... remember when KSFO organized the protest of Car Check 2? Massive protests got that one killed right away. I wrote Brian Sussman at KSFO on the issue and I plan to write Melanie Morgan (the woman who got the recall of Gray Devious going). I think writing to assembly critters and Senate bozos isn't gonna get it done. We need to get the right media people roused out of their slumber.

Because many of us are not lazy immature people without jobs, unlike the occutards.

TimRB
08-09-2012, 8:32 AM
I don't care so much if it's effective...is anybody else tired of going down without saying we did EVERYTHING we could?

Ironically, that's the thinking behind SB249.

Tim

curtisfong
08-09-2012, 8:34 AM
Ironically, that's the thinking behind SB249.


Precisely. Ugh. With "friends" like these who, needs Keigwin?

383green
08-09-2012, 8:39 AM
Complacency? No, not at all. We are doing things, right now. Waving signs on the street corner just doesn't move the ball forward, as we have seen again and again. When we protest on the street, most people see it through the media. But the media edits the story to make us look like idiots, and our opponents even plant people in the protests to tarnish our image. It doesn't work well for us because we are on their stage, and they control the microphone.

Why waste effort by doing something that won't help us, and often harms us? Just to make yourself feel like you're doing something? I would rather feel like I'm doing something that actually matters, and there is plenty of that stuff to do.

TakCWAL
08-09-2012, 8:49 AM
Honestly, I am not against the idea of an active protest, except I won't be picketing with signs...

- Tak

M. D. Van Norman
08-09-2012, 9:21 AM
Committee testimony will not beat SB 249.

Time and time again, we’ve seen that we have almost no influence on the Legislature—or at least that a few well-placed folks are far more effective than 10,000 protestors.

The Legislature will pass this, or it won’t. If it passes, we’ll encourage the Governor to veto. If he signs it instead, we’ll go to court for an injunction. If the courts dismiss us, then we will each have to choose another box.

SocomM4
08-09-2012, 9:32 AM
Complacency? No, not at all. We are doing things, right now. Waving signs on the street corner just doesn't move the ball forward, as we have seen again and again. When we protest on the street, most people see it through the media. But the media edits the story to make us look like idiots, and our opponents even plant people in the protests to tarnish our image. It doesn't work well for us because we are on their stage, and they control the microphone.


Damn bro, "they" have certainly brainwashed you into submission.

What other Rights can these bastards scare you away from?

desertjosh
08-09-2012, 9:40 AM
Time and time again, we’ve seen that we have almost no influence on the Legislature—or at least that a few well-placed folks are far more effective than 10,000 protestors.

The Legislature will pass this, or it won’t. If it passes, we’ll encourage the Governor to veto. If he signs it instead, we’ll go to court for an injunction. If the courts dismiss us, then we will each have to choose another box.

Exactly!

curtisfong
08-09-2012, 10:06 AM
blah blah blah

You ever wonder why the military has a strict chain of command?

Arisaka
08-09-2012, 10:11 AM
Looks like it's working here: http://www.redding.com/news/2012/aug/08/crowd-gathers-capitol-hearing-hunting-ban-law-woul/?partner=popular

curtisfong
08-09-2012, 10:16 AM
Looks like it's working here: http://www.redding.com/news/2012/aug/08/crowd-gathers-capitol-hearing-hunting-ban-law-woul/?partner=popular

What works in Redding would NEVER work in Sac.

http://i.imgur.com/ukix8.jpg

seattletocali
08-09-2012, 10:17 AM
If your not willing to physically protest then donate... As super PACS have proven money is the mother of all influencers.

I am not even in CA yet but i will be donating the money i had planned to spend on my next set of lowers. Money and pressure can swing this our way. Lets all do or part.

seattletocali
08-09-2012, 10:18 AM
Sorry typos from the phone... Or = our

ohsmily
08-09-2012, 11:05 AM
I guess what the OP is missing is that demonstrating on the "Capitol steps" or anywhere else for that matter, may have the OPPOSITE of the desired effect; it may negatively impact our cause. The Black Panthers is the classic example (as is the open-carry movement). In my mind, I love the idea of 10,000 gun owners rallying together, marching with their unloaded ar-15s on their shoulders in support of striking down SB249. However, 'tis a bad idea for obvious and some not so obvious reasons. If the marching orders are NO GUNS, it is almost inevitable for some toothless moron in camo to show up with his gun in contravention of the demonstration. Look at the libs; a bunch of well-meaning people show up to protest something and the fringe morons with bandanas over their faces show up to riot. Those people ruin the message and the whole group gets painted with a broad brush. The media would LOVE to single out some nutjob from the crowd for an interview or train their cameras on the one or two guys who show up with guns and get contacted by the police.

JSolie
08-09-2012, 11:09 AM
Please send copies of the aforementioned letters to me at jdberger(at)hotmail(dot)com

Thx

Is that open to everyone?

TakCWAL
08-09-2012, 11:11 AM
If the marching orders are NO GUNS, it is almost inevitable for some toothless moron in camo to show up with his gun in contravention of the demonstration.

Then it means we simply need to have better organization. Moreover, I tend to have some faith in humanity regarding cooperation...

10,000 march with arms would be a force to be reckoned with, under any circumstances.

- Tak

AeroEngi
08-09-2012, 11:25 AM
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/319437_10150991936170994_577507245_n.jpg

just saw this on facebook.

Who is gonna be going to this? I wish I could go...

383green
08-09-2012, 11:37 AM
Damn bro, "they" have certainly brainwashed you into submission.

What other Rights can these bastards scare you away from?

Relax, we're on the same side here. I'm just not wasting my time on feel-good posturing that will have no positive effect when there's real work to be done. Parading around in front of the Capitol building with a sign is like cheering at the TV and believing that it will affect the outcome of the prerecorded game that you're watching. Unless it backfires, in which case it's more like grabbing the ball and running towards your own goal.

Groups like CGF, SAF and NRA make real progress in this civil rights fight. Groups like GOC and GOA yell a lot, but don't get anything done. I'm taking my advice from the folks with the proven record, not the ones ineffectively foaming at the mouth. You're free to choose your own path, but please think before you act.

ProlificARProspect
08-09-2012, 11:39 AM
Use UNION tactics.
1) Caravan/ Bus people from all around the state.
2) order shirts for specific region of state and caravan.
3) have one captain on each caravan to maintain order in the group.
4) have a leader to relay orders to captains.
5) coordinate with all local and state authorities.
6) pull appropriate permits.
7) have a PR/media spokesman, order No one else to speak to media.
8) maintain peace and organization.


I guess what the OP is missing is that demonstrating on the "Capitol steps" or anywhere else for that matter, may have the OPPOSITE of the desired effect; it may negatively impact our cause. The Black Panthers is the classic example (as is the open-carry movement). In my mind, I love the idea of 10,000 gun owners rallying together, marching with their unloaded ar-15s on their shoulders in support of striking down SB249. However, 'tis a bad idea for obvious and some not so obvious reasons. If the marching orders are NO GUNS, it is almost inevitable for some toothless moron in camo to show up with his gun in contravention of the demonstration. Look at the libs; a bunch of well-meaning people show up to protest something and the fringe morons with bandanas over their faces show up to riot. Those people ruin the message and the whole group gets painted with a broad brush. The media would LOVE to single out some nutjob from the crowd for an interview or train their cameras on the one or two guys who show up with guns and get contacted by the police.

wildhawker
08-09-2012, 11:42 AM
Please don't.

-Brandon

Then it means we simply need to have better organization. Moreover, I tend to have some faith in humanity regarding cooperation...

10,000 march with arms would be a force to be reckoned with, under any circumstances.

- Tak

CBruce
08-09-2012, 11:43 AM
MEGAFAIL



Oh, no, it influences legislators all right

http://i.imgur.com/ukix8.jpg

Yeah, in this day, something like that is only going to polarize the anti-gun crowd even more.

TakCWAL
08-09-2012, 12:13 PM
Please don't.

I am not going to say I disagree, because part of me does agree.

But I think even we have given too much into fear. The fear of media portrayal, We are afraid of criticisms so we choose to take a less proactive stance. Not that what we are doing isn't proactive, but a show in force can sometimes display determination.

Just an opinion.

- Tak

Arisaka
08-09-2012, 12:55 PM
What works in Redding would NEVER work in Sac.

http://i.imgur.com/ukix8.jpg

You obviously didn't read the article. This protest was at the CAPITOL. Not of Redding, of California. That would be in Sacramento. Here's an interesting quote from the article:

"SACRAMENTO — A bill to ban using hounds to hunt bear and bobcat drew what legislators said was one of the largest crowds in recent memory to a state Assembly committee hearing on Wednesday.

Some 300 people showed up for the Assembly Appropriations Committee’s vote on whether to approve SB1221. After dozens of people came forward to voice either opposition or support for the bill, the committee instead delayed action on the bill."

So..... 300 people showed up at the capitol, and effectively shut the bill down. I bet we could get 1,000. I'd go.

Here's another quote: "“I would say that for high visibility issues, this is probably the biggest crowd I’ve seen,” Appropriations Committee Chairman Felipe Fuentes said after the hearing."

There you have it. 300 people is the biggest protest crowd they have ever seen. Let's smash it!!!

ProlificARProspect
08-09-2012, 1:16 PM
You obviously didn't read the article. This protest was at the CAPITOL. Not of Redding, of California. That would be in Sacramento. Here's an interesting quote from the article:

"SACRAMENTO — A bill to ban using hounds to hunt bear and bobcat drew what legislators said was one of the largest crowds in recent memory to a state Assembly committee hearing on Wednesday.

Some 300 people showed up for the Assembly Appropriations Committee’s vote on whether to approve SB1221. After dozens of people came forward to voice either opposition or support for the bill, the committee instead delayed action on the bill."

So..... 300 people showed up at the capitol, and effectively shut the bill down. I bet we could get 1,000. I'd go.

Here's another quote: "“I would say that for high visibility issues, this is probably the biggest crowd I’ve seen,” Appropriations Committee Chairman Felipe Fuentes said after the hearing."

There you have it. 300 people is the biggest protest crowd they have ever seen. Let's smash it!!!
From the article. Protesters inside the Capital building.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-2.jpg

Arisaka
08-09-2012, 1:22 PM
There you go. These hunters are getting their way, why can't we?!

Rock6.3
08-09-2012, 1:37 PM
Some 300 people showed up for the Assembly Appropriations Committee’s vote on whether to approve SB1221. After dozens of people came forward to voice either opposition or support for the bill, the committee instead delayed action on the bill."

So..... 300 people showed up at the capitol, and effectively shut the bill down. I bet we could get 1,000. I'd go.

Here's another quote: "“I would say that for high visibility issues, this is probably the biggest crowd I’ve seen,” Appropriations Committee Chairman Felipe Fuentes said after the hearing."

There you have it. 300 people is the biggest protest crowd they have ever seen. Let's smash it!!!

I'm up for a carpool.
Now we just need to know for certain when SB249 is being voted on and be there early enough to get into the room.

sharxbyte
08-09-2012, 2:06 PM
Brandon, IF we could organize something properly on the day it was being voted on, have designated spokespeople, and all quietly file into the room (as opposed to picketing outside and inviting mob behavior)

Would that be beneficial?

wildhawker
08-09-2012, 2:13 PM
Brandon, IF we could organize something properly on the day it was being voted on, have designated spokespeople, and all quietly file into the room (as opposed to picketing outside and inviting mob behavior)

Would that be beneficial?

I don't see any upside on this bill.

-Brandon

thepunisher
08-09-2012, 2:15 PM
Wanna fight? Sign up and show up. http://calgunsfoundation.org/volunteer.

Real grassroots is hard work and rarely sexy.

-Brandon

I'm so in and damn its sexy...

Goop
08-09-2012, 2:21 PM
It seems to me this bill has a very strong chance of passing. The left has a very clear case. They are not trying to pass a new law, just amend a current one. They can simply get out in front of congress with an Assault Weapon and a CA approved one and say, "there is no difference here minus this one button, you already voted to ban it 10 years ago, we are merely asking you to errata what gun companies have done to get around it".

Its easy to argue against the assault weapon ban as a whole. However that is not what is on trial here. Its much much harder to argue that a bullet button completely changes the firearm. Think of all the years that we talked about how silly and stupid the bullet button was, guess what. The left overheard us and are going to fix it.

This sucks, i hate it, it is going to be a major up hill battle to try and win this one.

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 2:37 PM
I'm a newb when it comes to politics, but I bet if calguns had hundreds or thousands of people giving their testimony on how stupid this law is it would help atleast a little. Look at the hunters. Why not try all available courses of action?

Rock6.3
08-09-2012, 2:39 PM
http://www.gunownersca.com/news/news-current/item/2431-help-defeat-sb249

Aug 16: Rally at the State Capitol, North Steps, 8:45AM

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 2:43 PM
G.O.C. doesn't have anywhere near the kind of numbers that Calguns has. If G.O.C. has a protest and it's weak then Sacramento will see that as a green light to pass this thing without public resistance. Protests worked for the left. Look at our government today. The leftists won.

javalos
08-09-2012, 2:47 PM
Where are the protests? Where are the picketers on the capitol steps? Where is the huge, concerned crowd of gun owners?

I'm ugly. I can't be a spokesman...but for Pete's sake: Somebody who knows how to file for protest permits get ON THIS! Tell me where to go, and I'll be there!

This letter writing campaign is NOT getting the message out. Most of my letters are returned with "Sorry, not in my district!"

Where is our physical presence? Where are our leaders? Somebody step up, and let's fight this with a show of force! There's got to be somebody here who has done this before, or is married to someone who has done this before...WHY AREN'T WE FIGHTING THIS ON THE STREET?

Post a date, post a time, and I'll be there. I'll use vacation time. Yeah, I'm not a OWS guy with no job, no responsibilities, and no people counting on him for support, but I'll be there.

We can't give up ONE DAY to publicly protest?

Somebody: PLEASE step up! I'll help, I'll carry signs, I'll stand around and support, but I'm fat and ugly, and NOT a good spokesman.

With all the wealthy bluebloods on this site, we don't have ONE charismatic person that can lead this charge? Must it always be "Sign this! Email this! Send us money!" while we get nothing done?

Why are we not protesting in force?

Are we all too busy?

Where have you been? They are getting the message.

Arisaka
08-09-2012, 2:48 PM
I don't see any upside on this bill.

-Brandon

I don't think I understand what you mean.:confused:

sharxbyte
08-09-2012, 2:50 PM
I don't think I understand what you mean.:confused:

No upside to organizing a sit-in/silent-ish en mass protest.

Arisaka
08-09-2012, 2:58 PM
Oh, gotcha. I wonder why he thinks that? Seems to be working for the bear hunters, but I know nothing about this stuff. I'm just trying to stop this stupid bill.

wildhawker
08-09-2012, 3:03 PM
Oh, gotcha. I wonder why he thinks that? Seems to be working for the bear hunters, but I know nothing about this stuff. I'm just trying to stop this stupid bill.

Committee testimony will not swing this bill. We delivered 11k letters, will deliver another ~25k plus our own org opp letters. If they ignore history, facts, and litigation promises, you think they would ignore cries of a few "gun nuts"?

-Brandon

Rock6.3
08-09-2012, 3:04 PM
Committee testimony will not swing this bill. We delivered 11k letters, will deliver another ~25k plus our own org opp letters. If they ignore history, facts, and litigation promises, you think they would ignore cries of a few "gun nuts"?

-Brandon

If the extra effort to be present could make a difference, then it is worth the effort.

wildhawker
08-09-2012, 3:05 PM
If the extra effort to be present could make a difference, then it is worth the effort.

They have pro Tem, co-authors, A.G.

The politics of the bill makes testimony virtually irrelevant, and again, Approps is looking at cost issues, not soundness of policy.

-Brandon

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 3:08 PM
Committee testimony will not swing this bill. We delivered 11k letters, will deliver another ~25k plus our own org opp letters. If they ignore history, facts, and litigation promises, you think they would ignore cries of a few "gun nuts"?

-Brandon

WHy not come at them FROM ALL ANGLES. That way you keep pressure on. If they get a bunch of letters maybe they could think that those letter were faked. If they get thousands of real, breathing, living, determined citizens then they WILL KNOW it's real. Remember the tea party protests? Those things had an effect nationwide.

wildhawker
08-09-2012, 3:09 PM
Everyone has a right to protest SB 249. That I think a march/sit-in protest is ineffective or possibly harmful to us is only as relevant as you might value such counsel.

-Brandon

NytWolf
08-09-2012, 3:11 PM
What I want to know is how are all these bans supposed to decrease homicides? The other 49 states don't have BB's and they sure don't have 10-round limits (okay, some states do), and CA's homicide rate isn't any lower than theirs.

Where do nutcases people (gotta keep it political or else they're gonna cry) like Yee, DeLeon, Boxer, and Feinstein find the rationalization to keep making these laws?

A shooting happens in another part of the country and our local legislators make another law. Is that the way it's supposed to work? Didn't Feinstein say that a Federal law doesn't necessarily do what is needed for different parts of the U.S., so CA needs to make its own laws? If so, how can she rationalize that one law is legitimate for the different parts of the state in a state as large as CA? CA is so large that one county's crime rate is different from another.

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 3:13 PM
^^^ They dont use logic. They are driven by their biased ideology. Following the footsteps of Stalin, Hitler, and Mao.

stix213
08-09-2012, 3:14 PM
Gun protests will not be effective in CA. They will be spun by the media as something they are not, but most of all the people will be framed as dangerous nut jobs. You're more likely to increase the chance of legislation being passed, even new yet to be proposed legislation, than to influence it in the opposite way.

One only has to look at what happened with the last two years of UOC protests to see that I'm correct. The media focused their stories on "nuts" wanting to carry guns, and suddenly the votes appeared to ban UOC when they weren't there prior to the protests. The gun protests actually helped to create the ban rather than expand rights.

So no, I do not think a protest is a good idea, and in fact you're more likely to harm gun rights rather than help.

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 3:17 PM
^^^ I still don't think that politicians feel the heat from petitions. I still signed it anyway. They don't have to look petitions in the face. And how do you explain the hunters being victorious??????

stix213
08-09-2012, 3:21 PM
^^^ I still don't think that politicians feel the heat from petitions. I still signed it anyway. They don't have to look petitions in the face. And how do you explain the hunters being victorious??????

I do think showing up to meetings and hearings though can and is effective. I was referring to a protest on the street type of event where you're largely dependent on local media to pass along your message to the law makers.

ProlificARProspect
08-09-2012, 3:29 PM
What a pessimist view on your fellow calgunners. When has a mass rally against a anti-gun/EBR bill been organized?

Not even for the 1999 California AW law was there a protest. Let's set the bar and example on how conduct a well organized protest. Stop assuming the worst when history shows not one single mass protest from California gun owners for laws that ban EBR's.


Gun protests will not be effective in CA. They will be spun by the media as something they are not, but most of all the people will be framed as dangerous nut jobs. You're more likely to increase the chance of legislation being passed, even new yet to be proposed legislation, than to influence it in the opposite way.

One only has to look at what happened with the last two years of UOC protests to see that I'm correct. The media focused their stories on "nuts" wanting to carry guns, and suddenly the votes appeared to ban UOC when they weren't there prior to the protests. The gun protests actually helped to create the ban rather than expand rights.

So no, I do not think a protest is a good idea, and in fact you're more likely to harm gun rights rather than help.

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 3:38 PM
]I do think showing up to meetings and hearings though can and is effective. [/B] I was referring to a protest on the street type of event where you're largely dependent on local media to pass along your message to the law makers.

We need to do this!!!!! We need as many poeple to show up. I doubt anybody reads their own e-mail in Sac they probably have staffers do that. And maybe the staffers consider it JUNK MAIL and they never see it. Worse incompetence has happened before. Same with petitions, et.c No one has gotten a handwritten response. They are just oblivious. They need to see actual people showing up about this issue.

Arisaka
08-09-2012, 3:38 PM
Everyone has a right to protest SB 249. That I think a march/sit-in protest is ineffective or possibly harmful to us is only as relevant as you might value such counsel.

-Brandon

Well, there it is. Don't throw a monkey wrench in CGF's gears, guys.

stix213
08-09-2012, 3:38 PM
What a pessimist view on your fellow calgunners. When has a mass rally against a anti-gun/EBR bill been organized?

Not even for the 1999 California AW law was there a protest. Let's set the bar and example on how conduct a well organized protest. Stop assuming the worst when history shows not one single mass protest from California gun owners for laws that ban EBR's.

You didn't even read what I said cause I already answered your question. UOC protests were organized and involved a lot of shooters. The result was a ban on UOC that didn't even have support prior to the protests. The ban took effect just months ago, so very recent and the experience and lessons are relevant here.

Rock6.3
08-09-2012, 3:39 PM
I don't plan to protest or sit-in or march.

I plan to attend the public process and participate if given the opportunity.

Arisaka
08-09-2012, 3:39 PM
Then again, I'm sure all of those bear hunters in their camo hats and stuff look like a bunch of nuts (I kind of think they do, and I don't really know how I feel about hound hunting), but they were effective.... ish.

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 3:45 PM
WHEN is the next meeting or hearing on this???????????

ProlificARProspect
08-09-2012, 3:49 PM
What a pessimist view on your fellow calgunners. When has a mass rally against a anti-gun/EBR bill been organized?

Not even for the 1999 California AW law was there a protest. Let's set the bar and example on how conduct a well organized protest. Stop assuming the worst when history shows not one single mass protest from California gun owners for laws that ban EBR's.

You didn't even read what I said cause I already answered your question. UOC protests were organized and involved a lot of shooters. The result was a ban on UOC that didn't even have support prior to the protests. The ban took effect just months ago, so very recent and the experience and lessons are relevant here.
What does UOC have to do with EBR's in this case?

What UOC's did was a individual and erratic protest in the streets of California with a Unloaded Open Carried handgun. What I'm talking about is a well organized and executed mass protest in the capital with out our Guns, just to show a physical presence and flex our muscle. So When has a mass rally against a anti-gun/EBR bill been organized?

Rock6.3
08-09-2012, 3:51 PM
WHEN is the next meeting or hearing on this???????????

Next Thursday

http://www.gunownersca.com/news/news-current/item/2431-help-defeat-sb249

HBrebel
08-09-2012, 3:52 PM
The difference between you and I is that I will not be made a criminal. I will comply with the laws of this State while I live in it.

...but this doesn't mean we can't protest against the darned thing before it's passed!

I will not be made a criminal either. The criminals are in San Francisco, Sacramento and in DC. When they come after me and insist that I give them my property that makes me a victim.

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 4:00 PM
Next Thursday

http://www.gunownersca.com/news/news-current/item/2431-help-defeat-sb249

WTF there is a meeting next thursday!!!??? Should have been organizing to get people to go to this months ago!!!! If noone shows up they will think noones cares and pass this bill. That is how the liberals think. They don't care about petitions. They are more swayed by emotion than logic. How many people are going?????

Quinc
08-09-2012, 4:24 PM
I agree with the OP we need more OFFENSE! There has to be some local media somewhere that is on our side. I think our best way of winning this would be to get the media on our side and bashing the politicians for wasting our tax money and time on making criminals out of law abiding citizens and filling up our crowded prisons as well as not working on critical issues like the economy and high unemployment rate. In other words get the politicians busy defending everything they are not doing and unfocused on these stupid laws.

Example:
Reporter "This law is costing tax payers millions and will make 100's of thousands of law abiding people with jobs and families criminals if passed. All while doing nothing to help real issues like unemployment and the rising costs of food and gas" etc etc

RuggedJay
08-09-2012, 4:28 PM
How many calgunners in Sacramento even know about Thursday?????

Rock6.3
08-09-2012, 4:28 PM
How many calgunners in Sacramento even know about Thursday?????

Very few, the schedule just became known recently.

fpeel
08-09-2012, 5:10 PM
There's nothing the anti-gun predators like more than victims. The mere mention sends them into a frenzy. Tuscon, Aurora, Oak Creek, et al put blood in the water and the sharks have come out in schools. Us being anything except calm, calculated and rational will be spun against us by the liberal media and the anti-gun groups.

Responses that come across as shrill and emotional will only feed their frenzy and play into their hands. Don't give them ammo.

bruss01
08-10-2012, 12:03 AM
Where are the protests? Where are the picketers on the capitol steps? Where is the huge, concerned crowd of gun owners?

I'm ugly. I can't be a spokesman...but for Pete's sake: Somebody who knows how to file for protest permits get ON THIS! Tell me where to go, and I'll be there!

This letter writing campaign is NOT getting the message out. Most of my letters are returned with "Sorry, not in my district!"

Where is our physical presence? Where are our leaders? Somebody step up, and let's fight this with a show of force! There's got to be somebody here who has done this before, or is married to someone who has done this before...WHY AREN'T WE FIGHTING THIS ON THE STREET?

Post a date, post a time, and I'll be there. I'll use vacation time. Yeah, I'm not a OWS guy with no job, no responsibilities, and no people counting on him for support, but I'll be there.

We can't give up ONE DAY to publicly protest?

Somebody: PLEASE step up! I'll help, I'll carry signs, I'll stand around and support, but I'm fat and ugly, and NOT a good spokesman.

With all the wealthy bluebloods on this site, we don't have ONE charismatic person that can lead this charge? Must it always be "Sign this! Email this! Send us money!" while we get nothing done?

Why are we not protesting in force?

Are we all too busy?


I empathize with you, feel your pain and frustration. For what it's worth, I would devote not just a day but my entire two weeks of vacation and all of my sick days to turn out for a protest if it would accomplish anything constructive. I would wave a picket, march, chant songs, exhibit rude hand gestures, and raise my voice in protest. Or any number of other embarrassing and inconvenient things. If it would accomplish something.

The sad fact is, it won't and will not.

The powers that be did not listen to tens of thousands of people who turned out in the streets FOR MONTHS. They were so devoted to their cause, they picketed, held rallies, marched, drummed, sang, occupied and even rioted. They were arrested by the hundreds and still came back for more.

It didn't matter. The PTB's don't care. It is irrelevant to them how you think or feel.

Did Arnold listen when we called and faxed hundreds of letters regarding the .50 BMG ban? NO. Did he listen when we wrote protesting microstamping? NO. And that was a REPUBLICAN governor.

The only way to fight this is in the courts. That's where this battle is headed. And it's one we will have to fight over and over and over again, because they will keep passing the same bill with a few words changed here and there (just like congress did with the 1000 foot school zone thing) and wear us down with one court case after another for decades. Because they don't care what you or I want. They care what THEY want. "Election" is just a smarmy way of hijacking public opinion on one day of the year in order to get into office. It means nothing because the average voter is uneducated and easily manipulated using propaganda and wedge issues as leverage. If 51% of them had two independently functioning brain cells to rub together, they would figure out the ruse, hold a revolution, and make a fresh start. That's not going to happen any time soon. So my advice is, keep your idealism, but make it subservient to your pragmatism until such time as you can convince a majority of your fellow Californians to think (and vote) likewise.

I can honestly say I do not believe I will ever be convicted of a firearms offense. Especially if they come to my home, expecting to take them.

NotEnufGarage
08-10-2012, 5:25 AM
WTF there is a meeting next thursday!!!??? Should have been organizing to get people to go to this months ago!!!! If noone shows up they will think noones cares and pass this bill. That is how the liberals think. They don't care about petitions. They are more swayed by emotion than logic. How many people are going?????

The hearing date was just posted this week.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

CBruce
08-10-2012, 11:10 AM
From the article. Protesters inside the Capital building.
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj8/ProlificARProspect/photo-2.jpg

Every one one of those guys looks exactly like what I imagine when I hear the phrase 'hunting with hounds'.

Jungleboxx
08-14-2012, 2:47 PM
With all due respect towards Brandon Combs, I know you have done a lot of good work and continue to do so, but I am starting to question why you are having a change of heart.

All of your posts about SB249 have simply been "Stay home", "Don't go it won't help", "You are wasting your time".

Now being a person of your stature and accomplishments have any of your accomplishments in life been because you "Didn't go"? Have you had anything handed to you for just "Not showing up"? Do you just not show up to your hearings?

I mean no disrespect it just seems out of character.

DoddRod
08-14-2012, 3:24 PM
Just heard my first anti SB249 ad on KFI! Woot