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View Full Version : "9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's View of Gunshot Wounds" Video


discorock
08-08-2012, 2:39 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted. I found it very interesting and wanted to share. This is NOT to stir up a caliber debate. Gun forums have enough debates about which round is most effective and how shot placement is critical. This video has good information from a medical perspective.

Caution: Viewer discretion is advised (Bloody)

http://youtu.be/tku8YI68-JA

DiscoRock

guitar-nut
08-08-2012, 7:52 PM
That was pretty interesting, thanks for sharing.

compulsivegunbuyer
08-08-2012, 9:11 PM
That's pretty cut and dry. Hit a vital structure or their not going down.

redcliff
08-08-2012, 11:43 PM
Fascinating, thanks for sharing.

morfeeis
08-09-2012, 2:34 AM
Wow even the guy shot with the 357 was up and talking 10 hours later, i need a DE or i need to start using my AR for HD.

nhattran_1528
08-09-2012, 7:17 AM
Interesting video! Thanks for posting!

m98
08-09-2012, 8:00 AM
9mm ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!;p.






Good informative vid

Wicked Pete
08-09-2012, 8:43 AM
Look at 4.25: "In the neighborhood".

Is that one of our CalGunners? I've seen that photo (bottom) before...on CGN.

Slim///
08-09-2012, 9:03 AM
Tagged for later

1911su16b870
08-09-2012, 10:57 AM
Interesting watch. Anyone know that Dr.s name? I could not get it off the poor video.

discorock
08-09-2012, 11:09 AM
That's pretty cut and dry. Hit a vital structure or their not going down.

Very True. What struck me is that there are so many variables that can affect a bullet's path. My thinking now is to put as many rounds on target until the threat runs away.

DiscoRock

discorock
08-09-2012, 11:26 AM
Wow even the guy shot with the 357 was up and talking 10 hours later, i need a DE or i need to start using my AR for HD.

Yeah, my shotgun will be getting more time at the range from now on.

JackRydden224
08-09-2012, 11:37 AM
Wow even the guy shot with the 357 was up and talking 10 hours later, i need a DE or i need to start using my AR for HD.

My HD gun is my AK74 with a red dot. I'm not that good of a shot so I'm gonna make sure I don't need to shoot twice.

meaty-btz
08-09-2012, 1:05 PM
Even a rifle isn't a one shot kill, all it does is increase your chances for fast fall.

There are plenty of records of men being shot till they are swiss cheese and not only living, but fighting. In vietnam and in WW2 we have hard records of such cases. If it does not cause massive bleeding or is a CN Hit (note he said BRAINSTEM ALONE) you are not assured a fast kill.

Again, battle injuries are our hard documented test. There again are records on records of men surviving head-shots with rifle rounds. Even recently such as in Afghanistan where a Marine was hit in the head and had enough wits about him to fight and even be sarcastic with the corpsman about what he would do to him if he took off his helmet and his brains fell out.

Shoot to stop the threat, most are cowards and will fall easily because they lack the will that drives men onward when injured. However, you might get that dyed in the wool killer type or someone on drugs, they won't stop or run till you take them down for good. Never bank on cowardice, presume all of them are on something or a dyed in the wool type. The shooting stops when it goes click or when they drop and or retreat.

m98
08-09-2012, 1:25 PM
Where are the nterweb commandos that always post that "if you cant get the job done with _____[insert #] of rds, you need to practice more" or "if you cant get the job done with 7rds of 45, you dont need a gun"

discorock
08-09-2012, 4:16 PM
Interesting watch. Anyone know that Dr.s name? I could not get it off the poor video.

I'll PM you the information.

WoodenGun
08-09-2012, 4:53 PM
For me, the take home message is "speed kills."

hammerhands32
08-09-2012, 5:15 PM
Great video thanks for posting.

Crazy how much difference speed makes.

disturbed1
08-09-2012, 5:48 PM
Where are the nterweb commandos that always post that "if you cant get the job done with _____[insert #] of rds, you need to practice more" or "if you cant get the job done with 7rds of 45, you dont need a gun"

I own only one handgun, it holds 7 rounds of .45 acp. This is all I need to get the job done. If I can drop 8 guys with this, I should not own a gun.

Mr. Beretta
08-09-2012, 6:04 PM
Without a doubt, the best 34.04 minutes I ever spent watching a vid on this forum!

Outstanding information!

Thanks for posting!

smirnus3000
08-09-2012, 11:29 PM
thanks for posting that up

m98
08-09-2012, 11:39 PM
I own only one handgun, it holds 7 rounds of .45 acp. This is all I need to get the job done. If I can drop 8 guys with this, I should not own a gun.



^^^There ya go..... Much better,.......anymore commandos?

10mm
08-10-2012, 12:13 AM
Thanks pal;)

Merc1138
08-10-2012, 12:31 AM
^^^There ya go..... Much better,.......anymore commandos?

I did just do a tactical roll across the floor to hit the reply button. Does that count?

It was indeed an interesting video. It wasn't really information that I hadn't already picked up elsewhere, but it was presented well enough and condensed into one easy to watch session.

opie4386
08-10-2012, 8:32 AM
Wow makes me want a shotgun for HD. Amazing how the victime just got up and walked away after 2 hits point blank!

kakinuma-kun
08-10-2012, 8:40 AM
Emphasizes even more strongly the need for accurate placement of first shots and with a large enough caliber.

The info about expanding bullets (trade off betwren large wound channel versus loss of energy resulting from expansion) and importance of penetration was interesting.

voiceofreason
08-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Shotgun>rifle>pistol

I'd take a 5.56 with a 30 rd mag personally, but a shotgun with #1 or 00 buck would be a great 2nd choice.

I'm comfortable with anything 9mm and up if I have spare mags, even in ball ammo.

1911su16b870
08-10-2012, 1:12 PM
Props to discorock for the Docs reference! Thanks!

Good data in that presentation.

75% of the time it is handguns.
6/7 survive the handgun as they are poor stopping rounds.

My take on it is if you expect trouble bring a rifle, as they are good stopping rounds.

Montu
08-10-2012, 1:29 PM
hmm kind of skipped through it...did he just make a case for .45 ball ammo instead of a .45 hp?

interesting stuff

KracknCorn
08-10-2012, 5:08 PM
Wow... I might switch to my shotgun now for home defense.

Merc1138
08-10-2012, 5:34 PM
hmm kind of skipped through it...did he just make a case for .45 ball ammo instead of a .45 hp?

interesting stuff

You could say that maybe, but it was more along the lines of the tradeoffs between ball vs. HP, along with the need for proper shot placement, changes in training over the years, and the need to shoot until the threat has stopped.

ap1040
08-10-2012, 8:25 PM
very interesting vid thanks for posting this

rabagley
08-10-2012, 8:33 PM
That was awesome, thank you. Remarkably even-keeled and factual. I suspect that the good doctor is himself a gun enthusiast.

Mr.1904
08-11-2012, 11:37 AM
Good video. Thanks for posting.

Redyourdead
08-11-2012, 12:20 PM
Good info

postal
08-11-2012, 2:34 PM
The Doc has to be a 'gun nut'.

He pointed out in his pics the difference between an AK and a sturmgewehr... and had an idea of its current US retail value. Very cool.

Great vid.

Montu- He did state the advantage of HP is the expansion which is more likely to hit a vital, and the larger the caliber, the more likely as well. So just as everything else in life, there are always trade offs.

Librarian
08-11-2012, 3:01 PM
I own only one handgun, it holds 7 rounds of .45 acp. This is all I need to get the job done. If I can drop 8 guys with this, I should not own a gun.

If all it holds is 7, and you can kill 8 people with 7 rounds, all you need is whatever killed that 8th person. :D

RobG
08-11-2012, 3:20 PM
Nicely done. As far as the bullets hanging up under the skin and not exiting, I see it quite a bit. Had a few GSW's in the last few weeks with that exact presentation; a hole here, and a bullet right under the skin there. We (EMS) have also recently started the resusitation protocols he was talking about. The guy puts on a realistic presentation.

safewaysecurity
08-11-2012, 3:46 PM
Awesome video. Learned quite a bit. Didn't know that more often than not there won't be an exit wound. Surprised that the one .40 round only barely past the sternum. He must have been wearing some thick denim and the shooter must have been shooting out of like a 2 inch barrel.

puer2ricn
01-26-2013, 5:39 PM
This is a great video.

Sakiri
01-26-2013, 7:00 PM
Awesome video. Learned quite a bit. Didn't know that more often than not there won't be an exit wound. Surprised that the one .40 round only barely past the sternum. He must have been wearing some thick denim and the shooter must have been shooting out of like a 2 inch barrel.

No. He hit bone. That's what it was.

When you aim for center mass, you're pretty much hoping to get between the ribs. Hit a rib or the sternum, the round can just bounce off it, stop dead after going through, and otherwise not do crap.

Most of the information in the video wasn't news to me(medical nerd though I'm not EMT or a doc - I read this stuff regularly because it's fun), but the protocol stuff was nifty.

23 Blast
01-27-2013, 4:36 PM
Yeah - a very good video. The doctor was able to identify different caliber rounds, knew the nomenclature, and knew what a Sturmgewehr was and its significance in firearms development. If he was a closet gun enthusiast, he's been outed now! :D

Hardballer
01-27-2013, 5:48 PM
The guy who got shot with the two HP.40 rds was one lucky SOB. (as lucky as one can get by getting shot)

One of the HP.40 rds stopped a few mm's short of his heart. I've heard of some CCW permit holders loading one FMJ rd per HP rd. Sounds like a good idea.

Same
01-28-2013, 12:26 AM
Good video. Very informative

Creeping Incrementalism
01-28-2013, 6:22 AM
I didn't watch the video but skimmed through some screenshots. It looks like someone lecturing Fackler-type stuff that has been widely available on the web for at least a decade. For a good written description of the Fackler school of thought with diagrams, see http://www.frfrogspad.com/terminal.htm.