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View Full Version : Skinner to introduce bill mandating reporting 1,000 ammo purchases to LEO


Jeffersonian
08-08-2012, 9:15 AM
lhttp://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2012/08/lawmaker-crafting-bill-to-report-big-buyers-of-ammo-to-police.html

cdtx2001
08-08-2012, 9:18 AM
Oh Gawd!!! Not this crap again.

Well, another reason to take my money out of state and go to the NV gun shows.

RazzB7
08-08-2012, 9:18 AM
I think we should also notify LEO when anyone buys 24 rolls of toilet paper at once. Nobody needs that much toilet paper at once, right? They must be up to something!

DrDavid
08-08-2012, 9:19 AM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...

NoJoke
08-08-2012, 9:20 AM
Deja vu - is there a glitch in the matrix?

Holy cow.

adampolo13
08-08-2012, 9:22 AM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...

No way that would make any sense right??? I guess it's just another loop hole for us to jump through...

Paper Boy
08-08-2012, 9:44 AM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...

Right? Or offer split shipping and charge your card twice...

SilverTauron
08-08-2012, 9:46 AM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...

28 Days Later....

"Man arrested by police raid with 999 round box of ammo. Restrictions to be tightened in next Legislative session"

12 months later

"Assemblyman Antiright offers bill reducing reporting requirement from 500 rounds to 250."

4 year later on Calguns.net...

"Do you remember the old days when you could buy 100 round boxes of ammo without a background check?"

lithium381
08-08-2012, 9:49 AM
While it's annoying what are they going to try and do with that information? Put you on a watch list? If they come looking for it (and obviously it's all stored somewhere OTHER than your house) just say "i used it at the range". Oh okay thanks for your time.

SilverTauron
08-08-2012, 9:56 AM
While it's annoying what are they going to try and do with that information? Put you on a watch list? If they come looking for it (and obviously it's all stored somewhere OTHER than your house) just say "i used it at the range". Oh okay thanks for your time.

Its another way of tightening the noose for a general ban. The state says no more handguns, you take a boat trip to Alaska where your 1911 tragically is lost.

One day out the blue the cops come knocking on your door.

"Sir, you said on the DOJ Form 1 that you lost your 1911 in a boating accident right before the gun ban went into effect last year. How come you bought 200 rounds of .45 ACP at store X-Ray last month?"

Gray Peterson
08-08-2012, 10:09 AM
Its another way of tightening the noose for a general ban. The state says no more handguns, you take a boat trip to Alaska where your 1911 tragically is lost.

McDonald forecloses that.

One day out the blue the cops come knocking on your door.

"Sir, you said on the DOJ Form 1 that you lost your 1911 in a boating accident right before the gun ban went into effect last year. How come you bought 200 rounds of .45 ACP at store X-Ray last month?"

"I do not speak to law enforcement without counsel".

miztic
08-08-2012, 10:13 AM
"Sir, you said on the DOJ Form 1 that you lost your 1911 in a boating accident right before the gun ban went into effect last year. How come you bought 200 rounds of .45 ACP at store X-Ray last month?"

That was a gift, my friend has them sitting on her fireplace mantle for decoration :D

nick
08-08-2012, 10:18 AM
Its another way of tightening the noose for a general ban. The state says no more handguns, you take a boat trip to Alaska where your 1911 tragically is lost.

One day out the blue the cops come knocking on your door.

"Sir, you said on the DOJ Form 1 that you lost your 1911 in a boating accident right before the gun ban went into effect last year. How come you bought 200 rounds of .45 ACP at store X-Ray last month?"

Well, New Jersey did make it a crime to possess ammunition in calibers you have no guns for.

BucDan
08-08-2012, 10:19 AM
Well, New Jersey did make it a crime to possess ammunition in calibers you have no guns for.

That's dumb. Really silly. What if I like to collect one of every caliber in the world? I guess I'll need a firearm of each caliber then lol.

nick
08-08-2012, 10:21 AM
That's dumb. Really silly. What if I like to collect one of every caliber in the world? I guess I'll need a firearm of each caliber then lol.

Are you trying to apply logic, common sense, or morality standards to gun laws?

Laser Sailor
08-08-2012, 10:21 AM
That's dumb. Really silly. What if I like to collect one of every caliber in the world? I guess I'll need a firearm of each caliber then lol.

Seems legit....

stix213
08-08-2012, 10:25 AM
I think we should also notify LEO when anyone buys 24 rolls of toilet paper at once. Nobody needs that much toilet paper at once, right? They must be up to something!

Should be immediately investigated for any neighborhood house TPing incidents.

1meanchevy
08-08-2012, 10:30 AM
"something they should be looking into further" are you serious??? Will they have brown shirts doing the looking??? 16 billion dollar deficit and this is the crap our elected officials spend time worrying about? Sad

Dr Rockso
08-08-2012, 10:32 AM
Guys, you don't understand. It's so they can more effectively investigate crimes in which the criminal fires more than 1,000 shots.

mjmagee67
08-08-2012, 10:38 AM
This stupid bill will nothing to change my ammo buying habits. I will continue to buy ammo as I see fit. If local LE shows up at my door, I'll ask to see the warrant and that's all I will say. Well other than invoking my right to remain silent.

All this will do it take more and more of LE's time from real crime fighting activities.

IVC
08-08-2012, 10:41 AM
These types of bills will eventually work to our advantage. When the courts start treating CA legislators on gun related issues the way they treat Mississippi legislators on abortion related issues, we'll be getting routine preliminary injunctions to keep the status quo while the state pursues its restrictions.

When we start getting injunctions (in AB 962 we already did), any new legislation that fails goes to the list of "No, you can't do that - sorry. Next."

Maltese Falcon
08-08-2012, 10:53 AM
What this really means is online vendors will not accept large orders from CA customers.

.

ChaneRZ
08-08-2012, 11:02 AM
You will be only allowed 1 box of ammo at gun shows. :stuart:

CBruce
08-08-2012, 11:03 AM
McDonald forecloses that.



"I do not speak to law enforcement without counsel".

Yeah, unless you're classified as a 'domestic terorrist' and just whipped away without any charges or due process. Cause that's legal now as well.

Like the WI shooter. A clear hate-crime, classified as terrorism.

Couple gun-control agenda like Yee's bill that wants to criminalize the mere *potential* to commit a crime, and this a is a very scary combination of governmental power.

Taxidave
08-08-2012, 11:10 AM
Just ban mass gatherings of people. Problem solved, no more mass murders.

TripleThreat
08-08-2012, 11:13 AM
Murder should be illegal.

XD40SUBBIE
08-08-2012, 11:21 AM
This serves no purpose. Unless LEO's will investigate everyone that buys more than 1000 rounds of ammo. Then what?

"Hi, we are talking to you today, because you have purchased over 1000 rounds of ammo."

"Yes, sir, as a matter of fact, I did."

"Okay, well, may I ask what you are planning to do with over 1000 rounds of ammo?"

"Respectfully, I have done nothing wrong and it is not illegal to purchase ammo in any quantities, so...please have a nice day."

or

"Why yes, I go target shooting every weekend and we end up shooting 200-300 rounds while we are there. They had a real good deal so I purchase as many as I can. Here's the dealer should you be interested. I got a real great deal on the popular calibers."

"Thank you have a nice day."

Then goes off to the next person on the list? WTF? LEO's I believe have better things to do.

tisguy409
08-08-2012, 11:24 AM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...

^+1

senorpeligro
08-08-2012, 11:25 AM
"something they should be looking into further" are you serious??? Will they have brown shirts doing the looking??? 16 billion dollar deficit and this is the crap our elected officials spend time worrying about? Sad

Somebody (!) should do something (!) about that (!). :facepalm:

javalos
08-08-2012, 11:28 AM
This bill could only come from Kalifornia, take a look at the face of stupidity..http://asmdc.org/members/a14/

Ask her if criminals will be reporting large purchases?

1000 rounds is nothing for active shooters, they'll burn through that in no time at all, especially handgun shooters.

What I expect police and sheriffs to say when they get a phone call from you reporting that you're buying 1000 rounds of 9mm ammo:

"What? good for you, I got a meeting with the police commissioner and mayor in 30 minutes to go over monthly department expense reports, bye."

"What kind of ammo? I like Federal better myself."

"Yeah, yeah, yeah, have fun."

"Geez (rolling eyes), thanks for reporting it."

SpunkyJivl
08-08-2012, 11:33 AM
28 Days Later....

"Man arrested by police raid with 999 round box of ammo. Restrictions to be tightened in next Legislative session"

12 months later

"Assemblyman Antiright offers bill reducing reporting requirement from 500 rounds to 250."

4 year later on Calguns.net...

"Do you remember the old days when you could buy 100 round boxes of ammo without a background check?"

Its almost like you can see the future.

GOEX FFF
08-08-2012, 11:35 AM
That's dumb. Really silly. What if I like to collect one of every caliber in the world? I guess I'll need a firearm of each caliber then lol.

Yep, there are folks around who are just strictly cartridge collectors.

morfeeis
08-08-2012, 11:35 AM
Getting more ****ing upset by the minute.

With all the real problems we have in the state why are these dumb****s so focused on problems we dont have. Fix our budget, fix our immigrant problems, roll back some of these green bull crap restriction that are killing our jobs.

FalconLair
08-08-2012, 11:51 AM
I see the bakers dozen in our future:

'BUY 999 ROUNDS OF AMMO AND RECEIVE 1 FREE ROUND'

OFFER VALID ONLY TO CALIFORNIA PURCHASES :D

I can see some pretty creative marketing strategies on this one

njineermike
08-08-2012, 11:56 AM
The reasons for me to stay in this state deteriorate daily......

Librarian
08-08-2012, 11:59 AM
'Will introduce'?

Even with a gut-and-amend, Aug 8 is awfully late to get such a thing through this year. Only have through Aug 31 left in the legislative session.

Doesn't mean she won't try. Watch for it in January, though.

XD40SUBBIE
08-08-2012, 12:11 PM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...


I have an idea, I'll buy 1000 rounds and give one back to the vendor...done.

A-J
08-08-2012, 12:13 PM
This makes perfect sense, seeing as how California LE agencies don't have any kind of staffing or workload issues to deal with. Let's have them tkaing memos on how many rounds a person is buying and "investigate" the people buying a lot.


Couple gun-control agenda like Yee's bill that wants to criminalize the mere *potential* to commit a crime, and this a is a very scary combination of governmental power.

Nice - so under that law, every man should be arrested for rape, since we're all properly equipped. Albeit, some of y'all have a smaller caliber than the rest of us....:43:

CHIEFone
08-08-2012, 12:21 PM
The reasons for me to stay in this state deteriorate daily......

^ +1

glug
08-08-2012, 12:25 PM
I love the sheer idiocy at the end of the article:

"Senate Bill 249, to ban devices enabling magazines of military-style rifles to be reloaded so quickly that semiautomatic guns can be fired almost like assault weapons."

Really?? A semi-auto with a 10 round magazine that I need a tool to unlock can fire "almost like" a full-auto assault rifle with 30+ round magazines that can be changed with the push of a finger?

Agent Orange
08-08-2012, 1:20 PM
At least they got the assault weapon part right.

vantec08
08-08-2012, 1:57 PM
Sometimes I cant read s__t like that - -- afraid the stupid will get thru.

stix213
08-08-2012, 2:05 PM
At least they got the assault weapon part right.

Uh really? How does any device on the firearm affect how fast you can reload your mags? Doesn't that take place outside of the firearm? :facepalm:

State Sen. Leland Yee, D-San Francisco, recently proposed separate gun-control legislation, Senate Bill 249, to ban devices enabling magazines of military-style rifles to be reloaded so quickly that semiautomatic guns can be fired almost like assault weapons.

njineermike
08-08-2012, 2:15 PM
Sometimes I cant read s__t like that - -- afraid the stupid will get thru.

Seriously. Getting that kind of stupid on you can be dangerous. It takes a dozen guys in hazmat suits hours to scrub away even small amounts of exposure.

mud99
08-08-2012, 3:13 PM
I think we should let this one pass, it is too funny that this needs to be reported to LEO.

You could not pick a crowd that is more disinterested in how much ammo you are buying, who will do absolutely nothing with that information.

Delfuego
08-08-2012, 3:31 PM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...


Too funny and then accidently turn the 9's upside down! :)

CBruce
08-08-2012, 3:34 PM
Murder should be illegal.

Why, not like the criminals are going to stop murde....oh, I see what you did there.

ewarmour
08-08-2012, 3:36 PM
"I'd like to buy 999 rounds of .223 please."

Gets case of ammo, removes 1 round. "Here you go".

"Thanks!"

Is that a "loophole"?

CBruce
08-08-2012, 3:38 PM
"I'd like to buy 999 rounds of .223 please."

Gets case of ammo, removes 1 round. "Here you go".

"Thanks!"

Is that a "loophole"?

"Hey, are you gonna need that round?"

"Nah, here you can have it for being such a great customer."

"Awesome!"

Some Guy
08-08-2012, 3:39 PM
If this passes the police will realize how feeble their training regiment is.

m03
08-08-2012, 3:46 PM
I love the sheer idiocy at the end of the article:

"Senate Bill 249, to ban devices enabling magazines of military-style rifles to be reloaded so quickly that semiautomatic guns can be fired almost like assault weapons."

Really?? A semi-auto with a 10 round magazine that I need a tool to unlock can fire "almost like" a full-auto assault rifle with 30+ round magazines that can be changed with the push of a finger?

"Almost". By their explanation, Tylenol is "almost" like heroin.

RazzB7
08-08-2012, 3:49 PM
I wonder if you could argue the constitutionality of this proposed law under discrimination?

I buy ammo in bulk for the same reason Suzie Homemaker buys Mac & Cheese in bulk at Costco...to save money.

Are they saying that gunowners don't have the same expectation to save money as other people?

five.five-six
08-08-2012, 3:49 PM
what is this "buying of ammo" you guys are talking about :confused:


http://firearms4u.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Dillon_550B.jpg

ewarmour
08-08-2012, 4:24 PM
"Hey, are you gonna need that round?"

"Nah, here you can have it for being such a great customer."

"Awesome!"

Buy 999 rounds get 1 free!

IVC
08-08-2012, 4:25 PM
what is this "buying of ammo" you guys are talking about :confused:


http://firearms4u.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Dillon_550B.jpg

They call rounds "bullets" and I see plenty of them in the photo :).

Seriously, the proposed bill would be very similar to AB-962 in the way it affects interstate commerce, which is something CA legislators cannot do. Even the ones from Berkeley. We got the injunction against AB-962 and this one would be no different.

five.five-six
08-08-2012, 4:35 PM
They call rounds "bullets" and I see plenty of them in the photo :).


funny, I don't see any bullets, I see ingots .355 mm 157 grain copper jacketed lead ingots

Bruceisontarget
08-08-2012, 4:39 PM
Gawd... I usually buy 10k at a time. Guess I'll just keep visiting Cabela's on the way to Reno.

TripleThreat
08-08-2012, 6:43 PM
What's the entire rational behind purchasing under 1,000 rounds?

When most mass shooting use around 10-20 rounds? The Aurora shooter may of gotten off 100-150 rounds, which is the most I've ever heard of being used in a single mass shooting.

In other words, one would have to be limited to 100-150 rounds to even have a chance at being effective. But we all know that even that wouldn't stop any future mass killings, it's not realistic to think that keeping people to only 999 rounds would ever help, ever.


I'll take a lesson for the BORG "this is futile."

tpc13
08-08-2012, 7:28 PM
First of all law enforcement doesn't have time with decreasing moral and furloughs no one even cares about or has time to worry about who purchases or how much ammo one buys. LE seems to be on the non-importance list because because they don't get any recognition. Everyone still loves the fireman who gets the cat out of the tree or puts out the fire. Fact is they need to stop trying to pass frugal laws that don't make since and focus on keeping people in jail. Right now bad guys laugh at politicians because there is no accountability and they do nothing except focus on new gun laws instead of enforcing the old ones. Use a gun in a crime your done slogan. Department of corrections is a revolving door. Ammo ban will not stop anything!!!

AAShooter
08-08-2012, 7:30 PM
The guy plans a shooting for multiple months and is working for a PHD . . . he couldn't possibly figure out how to be 6,000 rounds of ammo 1,000 at a time. Let me see . . . yeep . . . 6 orders. Score.

epilepticninja
08-08-2012, 7:36 PM
I just bought a 1,000 rounds of .223 this last weekend. Uh oh...

sreiter
08-08-2012, 8:14 PM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...

or order 500rd lots 2x

huntercf
08-08-2012, 8:36 PM
This stupid bill will nothing to change my ammo buying habits. I will continue to buy ammo as I see fit. If local LE shows up at my door, I'll ask to see the warrant and that's all I will say. Well other than invoking my right to remain silent.

All this will do it take more and more of LE's time from real crime fighting activities.

^^^This
My local PD doesn't even respond to home alarms anymore (unless someone can verify there is an actual break-in in progress) because of the cost to respond. No LEA is going to have time to check on any purchases and they certainly won't have time to deal with all the records. Plus, which LEA will the records go to, the LEA where the transaction is completed or the LEA where the buyer lives? If I was a ammo dealer I would send all these requests COD in a large box (1 in each box).:43:

sholling
08-08-2012, 10:03 PM
This let's them get some free TV face time with no threat of being turned out of office. They don't have to worry about such things because the media will protect them from political fallout - after all gun owners are all just ignorant racists slobbering all over themselves at the thought of shooting any black kid with unlicensed Skittles - or at least that's how the media will report it. :rolleyes:

Beside even if the public gets wise to the media's lies the gun-grabbers are termed out after two terms and can only run for higher office with the blessings of the hardcore antis running the state Democratic Party and need to impress those hardcore antis with just how evil they are if they want to get the party boss' blessing and party money. If you want to get the socialist gun-grabbers out then we have to get rid of campaign finance reform which does nothing but muzzle businesses and join hands with endangered business groups, fiscal conservative TEA Party types and fiscally conservative 2nd Amendment supportive gay groups to toss the bums out. There just aren't enough single issue 2nd Amendment voters to do it alone. In the mean time we can expect the avalanche of anti-2nd Amendment legislation to grow and the media to encourage even more.

So how many of you still watch the station that got Yee fired up and help boost their ratings?

DannyInSoCal
08-08-2012, 10:26 PM
I say let it pass.

Then we all purchase 5,000 rounds -

1,000 rounds from 5 different stores.

Let the police departments receive a few hundred of these "reports" every day for a year or so -

Swamping the staff so other police activities suffer.

Crime goes up -

Firearm sales and ownership goes up -

More of us to fight these delusional failed agendas....

truthseeker
08-08-2012, 10:39 PM
Yeah, because no one will start selling 999 rnd boxes...

FUNNY!!

You and I think alike, only took you probably 2 seconds to think about that and come up with a reply, but I LOVE run on sentences and I suck at typing so it takes me a little longer to type it!!:D

DartFrog
08-09-2012, 6:24 AM
Skinner's bill is AB 2512

Paper Boy
08-09-2012, 6:25 AM
I say let it pass.

Then we all purchase 5,000 rounds -

1,000 rounds from 5 different stores.

Let the police departments receive a few hundred of these "reports" every day for a year or so



I like it. If it passes the first day it goes into effect we should see how many people on Calguns we can convince to buy 1000+ rounds simultaneously and immediately swamp the police departments.

ewarmour
08-09-2012, 6:52 AM
^^^This
My local PD doesn't even respond to home alarms anymore (unless someone can verify there is an actual break-in in progress) because of the cost to respond. No LEA is going to have time to check on any purchases and they certainly won't have time to deal with all the records. Plus, which LEA will the records go to, the LEA where the transaction is completed or the LEA where the buyer lives? If I was a ammo dealer I would send all these requests COD in a large box (1 in each box).:43:

LEAs will use the info: have a minor offence? Restraining order? Filing for divorce? Traffic tickets? Medical marijuana card? DMV issues?

All this data will come together and be used against you. With web services and access this is trivial at best.

Wherryj
08-09-2012, 7:45 AM
Oh Gawd!!! Not this crap again.

Well, another reason to take my money out of state and go to the NV gun shows.

Either that or smart retailers will offer bulk packs in 999, possibly with "installment plans"? Anyone else forsee something similar to the old record clubs evolving?

"Buy now and you can get 999 rounds of your choice each ____ ".

CalBear
08-09-2012, 7:58 AM
The bill requires reporting of someone who buys more than 1000 rds in a 5 day period, and punishes the seller if they fail at reporting. That's the scary side of this... not the consumer aspect. From the aspect of the seller, it just adds one more way for store owners and clerks to get in trouble. It also requires de facto logging of ammo sales by sellers, because if they forget they sold to a person 2 days earlier and fail to report, they could face charges.

iBkickinit
08-09-2012, 8:18 AM
I'd be in for a mass purchase day. Will there be a voluntary reporting form if i want to make sure they know about the week I was broke and couldn't afford more than 500 rounds?

iBkickinit
08-09-2012, 8:26 AM
Giving them the benefit of the doubt that deep down they know this wont do anything, what it does is give them somewhere to point the blame.

"Despite being notified of his large ammo purchase, local authorities did nothing to prevent this tragedy. An internal investigation has been launched and civil suits are expected..."

senorpeligro
08-09-2012, 8:30 AM
Giving them the benefit of the doubt that deep down they know this wont do anything, what it does is give them somewhere to point the blame.

"Despite being notified of his large ammo purchase, local authorities did nothing to prevent this tragedy. An internal investigation has been launched and civil suits are expected..."

"Somebody should do something about that!"

vliberatore
08-09-2012, 8:42 AM
What about private party ammo sales?

Seems to me like free state residents might be on the verge of a new market for ammo sales

senorpeligro
08-09-2012, 8:44 AM
Until they make importation of > 999 rounds a felony...

njineermike
08-09-2012, 9:18 AM
Giving them the benefit of the doubt that deep down they know this wont do anything, what it does is give them somewhere to point the blame.

"Despite being notified of his large ammo purchase, local authorities did nothing to prevent this tragedy. An internal investigation has been launched and civil suits are expected..."

^^^THIS. Anybody that doesn't see most of these laws for what they are, fodder to feed the litigation machine, needs to note one fact: The overwhelming majority of legislators are former attorneys.

Kodemonkey
08-09-2012, 9:21 AM
While it's annoying what are they going to try and do with that information? Put you on a watch list? If they come looking for it (and obviously it's all stored somewhere OTHER than your house) just say "i used it at the range". Oh okay thanks for your time.

Exactamundo. Welcome to the California Pre-Crimes division.

Kodemonkey
08-09-2012, 9:25 AM
^^^THIS. Anybody that doesn't see most of these laws for what they are, fodder to feed the litigation machine, needs to note one fact: The overwhelming majority of legislators are former attorneys.

This and all of the litigation that will ensue if they start no-knocks and bust through doors of people. It's a lose/lose people.

This is just an attorney's nocturnal emission of a law if it were to pass.

bbsmth
08-09-2012, 9:33 AM
I think we should also notify LEO when anyone buys 24 rolls of toilet paper at once. Nobody needs that much toilet paper at once, right? They must be up to something!

Nice night at home, huh? Toilet paper, toilet paper, toilet paper, toilet paper, chewing gum. Hey, you kids be careful with this chewing gum. Don't go sticking it under any tables.

chris
08-09-2012, 9:50 AM
What this really means is online vendors will not accept large orders from CA customers again.

.

Fixed it for you ;)

RRangel
08-09-2012, 11:17 AM
This is your taxpayer dollars at work. The fact that the author is claiming, this sort of bill will accomplish anthing, having to do with her twisted idea of safety, tells you all you need to know. Stupidity like this is the hallmark of knee jerk anti-gun reactionaries. It's an excuse to target our rights when criminals aren't commiting crimes with thousands of rounds. Because they don't need to. There's no connection.

Librarian
08-09-2012, 12:38 PM
Main thread for the bill as amended -- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=9094576#post9094576