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View Full Version : Why don t we start a Calguns Super PAC?


bigcasino
08-07-2012, 10:35 AM
Why dont we have a Calguns Super PAC to help advance our message? would it help? I know I would donate to that just as I do to the NRA.

stix213
08-07-2012, 11:07 AM
What exactly would a Calguns Super PAC accomplish that a combination of CGF donations, NRA pressure, and SAF legal muscle aren't already good at? Genuine question so I can understand what you're getting at, and what we are missing.

OleCuss
08-07-2012, 11:11 AM
Actually, wouldn't the CRPA Foundation fill the bill?

taperxz
08-07-2012, 11:14 AM
Actually, wouldn't the CRPA Foundation fill the bill?

This^^ If the air gun shooters at CRPA knew how to direct their lobbyist and untied his hands and legs.

IVC
08-07-2012, 11:45 AM
One creates a super PAC to raise money for distributing a message while not hitting the legal amount limits for election of a candidate. Who would fund such a super PAC and who is not already doing it through the existing organizations?

troysland
08-07-2012, 11:51 AM
A Calguns Super PAC would be great if we had a politician running for office on our agenda. Sadly, California is an ***-backward state with career politicians having a stranglehold on maintaining it a "Nanny" State.

stix213
08-07-2012, 11:54 AM
If the goal is to create an organization with the goal of "winning the hearts and minds" of average Californians, I think that is the one thing we are missing so I would support that. Though I would expect the expenses would be very high. An occasional TV ad talking about a legit self defense incident where a firearm made the difference, especially via an LTC could help move the needle and would make all other efforts in this state easier.

Again, it would likely be extremely costly cash wise though.

readysetgo
08-07-2012, 12:25 PM
Why dont we have a Calguns Super PAC to help advance our message? would it help? I know I would donate to that just as I do to the NRA.

You don't have a high enough post count to suggest these ideas or any ideas for that matter! :rolleyes: :p

bwiese
08-07-2012, 12:34 PM
Why start one fresh?
This is supposed to be the CRPA's job. NRA wants state affiliates to do their share.

CRPA has a great lobbyist, Tom Pedersen, who works with NRA's Ed Worley nicely - but they need to put nukes in Tom's holster.

Restructuring CRPA - with a move to Sacramento and decreasing burn rate in some areas - and with its ~$4 mil in the bank is the foundation to build from. Do remember donations to such groups are NOT 501c3 tax deductible.

CRPA (despite its spending priorities etc.) has a very bright man, Arlin Penner, who has been doing well with the CRPA funds. He is a professional Morgan Stanley guy and guided the CRPA funds thru the shoals of the recession. If you have a lump of change and are doing things like this, you want a guy like Arlin around to pad shocks.

As Gene and I said, CRPA itself - as well as CA gunrights political donors - will have to "step out of their skins" and be willing to donate $$$/tolerate donation of $$$ to Democrat candidates that they well may not like in other arenas, and who may not be perfectly pro-gun but are less antigun than others [i.e., usage of blocking strategies]. An .org like this can easily go off the rails trying and failing to get irrelevant Reeps elected to unsafe seats, but until people want to play in the Reality world instead of make-believe we may have some hard going.

$10K - $100K, depending on race, dropped against smaller candidates and Assy campaigns can play a role in "STFU about guns". It won't always win, but it WILL have some moderating effect that accumulates over time.

Many gunnies are also cheap-asses. People have to start giving real $$$$ and not count on a $30/year NRA membership etc.

FRIGGIN' COPS PAY PORAC around $900/year just to defend something as trivial as a job (as compared to a right).

IF WE HAD PEOPLE DONATE $1000 to a PAC INSTEAD OF BUYING YET ANOTHER GUN WE'D REALLY BE GOING SOMEWHERE!

OleCuss
08-07-2012, 1:09 PM
Bill:

I really enjoyed and appreciated that.

The problem is that it felt like there were caveats in all that. So I'm going to ask pretty directly.

At this time is it worth donating directly to the CRPA Foundation for political purposes?

My understanding is that it is quite worthy of support. It could be made more worthy, but it is already a good place to put political money.

Oh, and I agree. An effective RKBA organization in California must be ready and willing to donate to Democrat politicians if it is tactically and strategically advantageous.

readysetgo
08-07-2012, 2:37 PM
Why start one fresh?
This is supposed to be the CRPA's job. NRA wants state affiliates to do their share.

CRPA has a great lobbyist, Tom Pedersen, who works with NRA's Ed Worley nicely - but they need to put nukes in Tom's holster.

Restructuring CRPA - with a move to Sacramento and decreasing burn rate in some areas - and with its ~$4 mil in the bank is the foundation to build from. Do remember donations to such groups are NOT 501c3 tax deductible.

CRPA (despite its spending priorities etc.) has a very bright man, Arlin Penner, who has been doing well with the CRPA funds. He is a professional Morgan Stanley guy and guided the CRPA funds thru the shoals of the recession. If you have a lump of change and are doing things like this, you want a guy like Arlin around to pad shocks.

As Gene and I said, CRPA itself - as well as CA gunrights political donors - will have to "step out of their skins" and be willing to donate $$$/tolerate donation of $$$ to Democrat candidates that they well may not like in other arenas, and who may not be perfectly pro-gun but are less antigun than others [i.e., usage of blocking strategies]. An .org like this can easily go off the rails trying and failing to get irrelevant Reeps elected to unsafe seats, but until people want to play in the Reality world instead of make-believe we may have some hard going.

$10K - $100K, depending on race, dropped against smaller candidates and Assy campaigns can play a role in "STFU about guns". It won't always win, but it WILL have some moderating effect that accumulates over time.

Many gunnies are also cheap-asses. People have to start giving real $$$$ and not count on a $30/year NRA membership etc.

FRIGGIN' COPS PAY PORAC around $900/year just to defend something as trivial as a job (as compared to a right).

IF WE HAD PEOPLE DONATE $1000 to a PAC INSTEAD OF BUYING YET ANOTHER GUN WE'D REALLY BE GOING SOMEWHERE!



Bill:

I really enjoyed and appreciated that.

The problem is that it felt like there were caveats in all that. So I'm going to ask pretty directly.

At this time is it worth donating directly to the CRPA Foundation for political purposes?

My understanding is that it is quite worthy of support. It could be made more worthy, but it is already a good place to put political money.

Oh, and I agree. An effective RKBA organization in California must be ready and willing to donate to Democrat politicians if it is tactically and strategically advantageous.

Wait a minute, I'm confused, I've asked before and didn't really get an answer.

1. For our purpose of "PAC" here, CRPA itself is who we're advocating as the primary role player, correct?

2. CRPA Foundation being a seperate entity from CRPA is not involved w/ lobbying and political efforts, correct?

BTW, I think I'm at around $400 donations to NRA CGF CRPA etc. so far this year, so $900 isn't too much of a stretch. That's just me.

bwiese
08-07-2012, 2:46 PM
ReadySteve,

Yes, CRPA Foundation is a tax-deductible 501c3 nonpolitical legal defense/educational entity.

CRPA is a c4 advocacy group.

A putative "CRPA-PAC" might end up being a separate .org spinoff, but it would also be a c4.

AJAX22
08-07-2012, 3:02 PM
Yep, 501c4 is what's needed to properly structure a lobby group.

I actually think that we could make an extremely effective (and nationally scaleable) state lobby group based on the AIPAC model for a relatively minimal amount of money.

I've put quite a bit of thought into it,

You would need a facility in Sacramento, a minimal staff and a small operations budget, and then you would coordinate to provide lobby training for small local groups and coordinate sending them to lobby their representatives directly. (AIPAC really has a very good formula for this)

Straight campaign donations are actually not the only nor the most effective way to lobby...

Yes, some funds can be put to use to that end, but its not the low hanging fruit anymore, where we are now, we have hit the point of rapidly diminishing returns.

I think CRPA could easily set something like this up, and it would really provide a lot more engagement with the 2A activist community both in terms of getting more troops fighting and getting more funds to the front lines.




ReadySteve,

Yes, CRPA Foundation is a tax-deductible 501c3 nonpolitical legal defense/educational entity.

CRPA is a c4 advocacy group.

A putative "CRPA-PAC" might end up being a separate .org spinoff, but it would also be a c4.

readysetgo
08-07-2012, 4:37 PM
ReadySteve,

Yes, CRPA Foundation is a tax-deductible 501c3 nonpolitical legal defense/educational entity.

CRPA is a c4 advocacy group.

A putative "CRPA-PAC" might end up being a separate .org spinoff, but it would also be a c4.

OK, thanks. With that said, Olecuss you wanna rephrase your question? Or are you indeed referring to CRPA Foundation?

Yep, 501c4 is what's needed to properly structure a lobby group.

I actually think that we could make an extremely effective (and nationally scaleable) state lobby group based on the AIPAC model for a relatively minimal amount of money.

I've put quite a bit of thought into it,

You would need a facility in Sacramento, a minimal staff and a small operations budget, and then you would coordinate to provide lobby training for small local groups and coordinate sending them to lobby their representatives directly. (AIPAC really has a very good formula for this)

Straight campaign donations are actually not the only nor the most effective way to lobby...

Yes, some funds can be put to use to that end, but its not the low hanging fruit anymore, where we are now, we have hit the point of rapidly diminishing returns.

I think CRPA could easily set something like this up, and it would really provide a lot more engagement with the 2A activist community both in terms of getting more troops fighting and getting more funds to the front lines.

Ajax22, are you currently a member of CRPA? Sounds like you should be for sure.

My conclusion is basically in agreement w/ bwiese that CRPA is the entity designed for what we are looking for.
I also "feel" that they are not at this moment up to the task, for whatever reason.
So, from that line of thinking, we need to join and improve CRPA, then as members, advocate for action in line with these concerns. If we can get them to act as our PAC, then we need to pour money in, through donations and increased membership drives etc. The problem seems to be that my "plan" hinges on CRPA doing and even knowing what the membership wants. So besides joining and advocating for this type of reform, I'm at a loss.

wildhawker
08-07-2012, 5:00 PM
Actually, wouldn't the CRPA Foundation fill the bill?

No, because CRPAF is 501(c)3 and cannot do PACs, politics.

-Brandon

wildhawker
08-07-2012, 5:01 PM
BTW, I think I'm at around $400 donations to NRA CGF CRPA etc. so far this year, so $900 isn't too much of a stretch. That's just me.

You're part of the 0.0001%.

-Brandon

OleCuss
08-07-2012, 5:07 PM
No, because CRPAF is 501(c)3 and cannot do PACs, politics.

-Brandon

Got it. Thank you.

readysetgo
08-07-2012, 5:13 PM
You're part of the 0.0001%.

-Brandon

Shhhhh... I don't want any trouble w/ OWS, it wouldn't end well for them. :cool:

Disclaimer: $900 isn't insignificant for me, it's between 1-2% of my total income and I've got mouths to feed.

Like I said "That's just me".

five.five-six
08-07-2012, 5:22 PM
$10K - $100K, depending on race, dropped against smaller candidates and Assy campaigns can play a role in "STFU about guns". It won't always win, but it WILL have some moderating effect that accumulates over time.



How much would it cost to unseat Yee? IMO if there was a fund or organization dedicated to removing him on his next election, the money would pour in. Nothing like punching the biggest bully in the schoolyard in the nose to get the rest of the kids to stop messing with you. He needs to be made an example of if at all possible. Politicians don't care about people, they care about keeping their jobs.

AJAX22
08-07-2012, 5:33 PM
Ajax22, are you currently a member of CRPA? Sounds like you should be for sure.

My conclusion is basically in agreement w/ bwiese that CRPA is the entity designed for what we are looking for.
I also "feel" that they are not at this moment up to the task, for whatever reason.
So, from that line of thinking, we need to join and improve CRPA, then as members, advocate for action in line with these concerns. If we can get them to act as our PAC, then we need to pour money in, through donations and increased membership drives etc. The problem seems to be that my "plan" hinges on CRPA doing and even knowing what the membership wants. So besides joining and advocating for this type of reform, I'm at a loss.

No, I'm not a member of anything.

I don't get the impression that joining these organizations gets you a seat at the table.

I'm more than happy to consult with them on putting an AIPAC style lobby project together, but I don't see how joining up ahead of time facilitates anything.

bigcasino
08-07-2012, 11:30 PM
wikipedia definds a super PAC as
A political action committee (PAC) is any organization in the United States that campaigns for or against political candidates, ballot initiatives or legislation.[1] At the federal level, an organization becomes a PAC when it receives or spends more than $1,000 for the purpose of influencing a federal election, according to the Federal Election Campaign Act.[2] At the state level, an organization becomes a PAC according to the state's election laws.

My idea behind this was more like what five five six said in post #19.
Calguns is great and doing alot to advance legal gun ownership here in CA but I do see some problems. One is sometime it is better for Calguns to keep quiet and not poke the bear so to speak and try to work the back channels and political side of this with legislation. if we had a another group we could go after the hearts and minds of all Californians and do things like trying to get "our" canadates elected or unseating antis like Yee. Also donations to Calguns go into a general fund, ( I am not saying dont donate to Calguns or anything here) but this is used as best fit but maybe some people dont want to donate because of one part of our mission say LTC but would like to see something like to stop SB-249 then then can put there money to help as they want. I would think that we should be starting to try to change minds of the people and we could do something like running small pro gun radio ads but if it had the calguns name on it that may not be a good idea.

Also I think that we should be trying to get "our" people in office, this starts small with city and county elections but then we help to push them up to the State level and maybe some to the federal ranks. Any Pro gun members ever think of being on a city council or running for Mayor? Maybe a pro gun Lawyer that needs help to get put on the bench? We do this with a PAC.

I am just trying to think like the antis do, they have many name for the same small group so it makes them sound a lot bigger and badder.

Sorry if my post count is not enough to think outside the box and try to help, Im just a poor man with a public school education. LOL