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View Full Version : what to do if SB249 or variant is passed?


donw
08-07-2012, 6:48 AM
i don't know about you guys, but i've decided that IF my BB equipped, AR, is banned here, i'm going to remove the gas tube, stake a plug into the gas block and remove the staked on fixture on the bolt that catches the gas to operate the bolt. or...simply go featureless.

i know...i brought this up before...

but...i will NOT surrender my firearms to a state! i will destroy or disable them first. i believe a state that will confiscate firearms WILL, eventually, turn on it's citizens....history, in particular, recent history, is very explict about that.

doing what i've described above will render my LW, Wylde chambered, 5.56 uppers into a straight pull, magazine fed, single shot rifle.

i have, as many of you do, too much $$$$ wrapped up in my AR to simply allow yee and his gun-grabbers access to a fine AR(s) (that may some day, be turned against us) and get no compensation in return.

now, unless they write more legislation outlawing the LOOKS of an AR, i'll at least be able to keep and use my investment.

after all...the LOOKS is what they're so fearsome of...don't believe that? why haven't they outlawed the M1 carbine? as an example. or the Ruger P series carbines? or the Ruger camp series carbines? the M1A? they all are of detachable magazine design...but they lack a PISTOL GRIP...look at the examples i've given...they are basically FEATURELESS AR's...the feared PISTOL GRIP is what strikes fear into the hearts of legislators; this may be next...i don't know...but for the moment we have to go with what we have.

bbsmth
08-07-2012, 7:59 AM
Go featureless...

And start training on your SKS with 10 round stripper clips.

Bt Doctur
08-07-2012, 8:06 AM
heres ours
WHAT FIREARMS ARE LEGAL TO OWN


•In NJ you may not own an "assault firearm", an Assault firearm is defined in NJ by either of the following criteria. 1) An "assault firearm" can be any one of the guns listed by NJ. If the firearm is listed by name, it is illegal and you can NOT own it in NJ. 2) An "assault firearm" can also be any firearm that is "substantially identical" to the firearms listed by name. "Substantially identical" is defined by a group of characteristics listed below, if a firearm is "substantially identical" you may not own it.
(notice that the following information does NOT apply to revolver pistols, or pump shotguns)
1) The following is the list of banned firearms which are illegal to own in NJ.


Quote

Algimec AGM1 type
Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"
Armalite AR-180 type
Australian Automatic Arms SAR
Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms
Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms
Bushmaster Assault Rifle
Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900
CETME G3
Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type
Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series
Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types
Demro TAC-1 carbine type
Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types
FAMAS MAS223 types
FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms
Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns
G3SA type
Galil type
Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms
M1 carbine type
M14S type
MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9 mm carbine type firearms
PJK M-68 carbine type
Plainfield Machine Company Carbine
Ruger K-Mini-14/5 F and Mini-14/5 RF
SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types
SKS with detachable magazine type
Spectre Auto carbine type
Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type
Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types
Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms
USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun
Uzi type semi-automatic firearms
Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms
Weaver Arm Nighthawk;

Rock6.3
08-07-2012, 8:11 AM
IF 249 becomes law, IF, then I will decide how to respond to that new law.

But for NOW I need to work to prevent 249 from becoming a law. Until that fight is over I do not need to make any decisions about my currently legal firearms.

Do not be distracted at this point in the game, focus on stopping this bill.

tenpercentfirearms
08-07-2012, 8:16 AM
Do not be distracted at this point in the game, focus on stopping this bill.

Especially since we have no idea what the final bill is yet. Keep up the pressure!

kmca
08-07-2012, 9:45 AM
Even if it does pass, there will probably be an injunction against it's implementation. It goes all the way to SCOTUS, by the time it gets through there, we'll probably be too old to shoot anyway :)

Crazed_SS
08-07-2012, 10:27 AM
I'd probably send my AR build and WASR to my mom in North Carolina.

Then I'll go back to clutching my M1A and Mini-14 like I did back in 2006 before all the bullet-button craze took hold in CA. Of course I realize the day will come when they decide they want M1As and Mini-14s too..

javalos
08-07-2012, 10:49 AM
Yes, focus on defeating the bill, its badly written, unworkable and unsafe. If it does get passed, we will all have a few months to decide what to do with our firearms, there are options, giving them up is not one of them.

G60
08-07-2012, 10:59 AM
Go featureless and dust off our standard capacity mags, maybe rebuild a few into those new Surefire 60 or 100 round mags to really throw Leland Yee and Adam Keigwin into hysterics.

Chosen_1
08-07-2012, 11:48 AM
Oh, well, guess I'll have to remove all the BBs from my ARs and AKs...
:rolleyes:

[/JK]

J.D.Allen
08-07-2012, 11:59 AM
Go featureless...

And start training on your SKS with 10 round stripper clips.

But I don't own an SKS. I own a Yugoslavian Zastava M59/66 :D

tpc13
08-07-2012, 12:04 PM
They won't stop because they are anti gun grabbing ..... What we need to do is get them out of office plain and simple..

Sousuke
08-07-2012, 12:18 PM
Has anyone thought of a new engineering solution to the law?

GW
08-07-2012, 12:20 PM
Don't let it become law!
Contact your local politicians and let them know that you oppose SB249.
And if it does pass, donate to the CalGuns Foundation to help pay for the fight!

Wiz-of-Awd
08-07-2012, 12:25 PM
Has anyone thought of a new engineering solution to the law?

Any and all [solutions] will likely not be discussed in this forum, for obvious reasons?

A.W.D.

ECG_88
08-07-2012, 12:25 PM
OK, just put a 22lr upper on your lower and its done. Rimfires are not assault weapons.

tpc13
08-07-2012, 12:30 PM
But they will be if Yee has his way

AfghanVetOrcutt
08-07-2012, 12:32 PM
OK, just put a 22lr upper on your lower and its done. Rimfires are not assault weapons.

BAM! That's how I usually store and transport mine anyways.

Wrangler John
08-07-2012, 12:41 PM
For my part, I have several friends and relatives out of state. They will be glad to store my firearms until I can put the homestead on the market. With the continual declining economy in California, the ever increasing spending (do we really need a bullet train?), taxes, regulatory burden, war against the automobile and all the rest, it's time to leave. The only thing keeping us here has been Proposition 13.

I worked for the government long enough to know that California can't be fixed in my remaining lifetime. There are some signs of change, such as a large percentage of SEIU's membership turning agency shop in several local governments, but it may be too little, too late.

Packing up and leaving will be a monumental task, but there's nothing holding us here. If SB 249 passes, and is not swiftly overturned, it will be the final straw.

putput
08-07-2012, 12:48 PM
We’ll do what we always do. We’ll comply with the law and sue the state of California. After we win we’ll burn our bullet buttons and magblocks and compare the comfort level of different carry holsters.

lincoln6echo
08-07-2012, 12:56 PM
For my part, I have several friends and relatives out of state. They will be glad to store my firearms until I can put the homestead on the market. With the continual declining economy in California, the ever increasing spending (do we really need a bullet train?), taxes, regulatory burden, war against the automobile and all the rest, it's time to leave. The only thing keeping us here has been Proposition 13.

I worked for the government long enough to know that California can't be fixed in my remaining lifetime. There are some signs of change, such as a large percentage of SEIU's membership turning agency shop in several local governments, but it may be too little, too late.

Packing up and leaving will be a monumental task, but there's nothing holding us here. If SB 249 passes, and is not swiftly overturned, it will be the final straw.
We recently moved to Lincoln, CA from the East Bay (Martinez) and really like it up here but in the back of my mind it is a stepping stone for getting myself and kids "okay" with not having family 5 min away and moving to TX within the next few years.

Can someone direct me to what I need to know about a featureless build? I just moved my Noveske upper to a Mega lower so my old Noveske lower is lonely.

ragenmoan
08-07-2012, 12:57 PM
How are monsterman grip equipped ARs affected if this law passes?

Cowboy T
08-07-2012, 1:04 PM
For my part, I have several friends and relatives out of state. They will be glad to store my firearms until I can put the homestead on the market. With the continual declining economy in California, the ever increasing spending (do we really need a bullet train?), taxes, regulatory burden, war against the automobile and all the rest, it's time to leave. The only thing keeping us here has been Proposition 13.


My folks tell me there are still people moving to CA. You might not have as difficult a time selling the ol' homestead and moving to Free America. California has definitely changed from the great State that I remember, and you are just one individual among 35 million.

The only way the politicians are going to get a clue is by them getting voted out repeatedly. Practically speaking, this means voting neither D nor R and perhaps considering Independents, Libertarians, and so on.

AfghanVetOrcutt
08-07-2012, 1:17 PM
The only way the politicians are going to get a clue is by them getting voted out repeatedly. Practically speaking, this means voting neither D nor R and perhaps considering Independents, Libertarians, and so on.

I agree 100% but it will never happen. Too much money behind those letters and not enough behind the others. That and people tend to be sheep and follow whatever they hear on TV without thinking for themselves. (please leave the military = sheep out of this, it's not true and this isn't the place for it).

nastee
08-07-2012, 3:24 PM
when does all these get decided and finalized?

Mendo223
08-07-2012, 3:27 PM
i will not be surrendering or welding any of my AR15s......they will get lost in a tragic boating accident and i will have my mini14 handy....


already put 1 lower through DROS this week...going to spend another 3-5k on some more evil black rifles before this ban goes into effect july 2013

nicki
08-07-2012, 3:54 PM
The fear of so called "AWs" among the general public is declining. The MSM is not getting the type of traction they wanted for banning "AWs" that they did in the past.

The MSM is probably shocked that when they run these AW stories, Americans react by buying more guns.

SB249 has a big problem unlike past gun bans, it is being enacted in a Post Heller/MacDonald era.

While the 9th fed circuiit may be dragging on gun cases, not all circuits are.

SB249 is an emotionally driven law, it passed it will force a head on class action federal lawsuit that could have 100,000 or more plantiffs.

SB249 will do something we haven't been able to do in years, get most of the gun owners in this state to get involved.

Nicki

Mrbroom
08-07-2012, 4:04 PM
i will not be surrendering or welding any of my AR15s......they will get lost in a tragic boating accident and i will have my mini14 handy....


already put 1 lower through DROS this week...going to spend another 3-5k on some more evil black rifles before this ban goes into effect july 2013

You and I must be on the same boat...

Packy14
08-07-2012, 4:10 PM
move back to the USA.

berto
08-07-2012, 4:20 PM
Move to Canadia of course. Oh wait, wrong issue. Nevermind.

jimh
08-07-2012, 4:34 PM
Somebody with the means and nothing to lose is probably going to sss, its just a matter of time. Crazy people are doing it for no reason whatsoever like the deal in Colorado. With the economy falling, more people have nothing to lose. Society only works when each citizen has something to lose. The more you take away, the more reason people have to fight back. Just my 2 cents and I am in no way saying this is the solution.

bohoki
08-07-2012, 5:12 PM
maybe they will start making fab-10s again

saki302
08-07-2012, 7:17 PM
I've been chatting with Prince50, and giving some suggestions.

Shuold this pass, he will have a solution- and it should be a simple one to implement.

But- you will effectively be back to either port loading or top loading the rifles again.

-Dave

mag360
08-07-2012, 7:49 PM
featureless isn't bad, why would you consider top loading when you can run featureless unless all you are is a paper puncher?

besides i want this thing to pass now. please Mr Yee, throw us in the briar patch LOL

GMG
08-07-2012, 7:50 PM
I've been chatting with Prince50, and giving some suggestions.

Shuold this pass, he will have a solution- and it should be a simple one to implement.

But- you will effectively be back to either port loading or top loading the rifles again.

-Dave

That to me doesn't sound like the answer I'm looking for.

Sniper3142
08-07-2012, 8:25 PM
i will not be surrendering or welding any of my AR15s......they will get lost in a tragic boating accident and i will have my mini14 handy....


already put 1 lower through DROS this week...going to spend another 3-5k on some more evil black rifles before this ban goes into effect july 2013


Since some Moderator deleted my post... I'm going with your answer.

epilepticninja
08-07-2012, 8:28 PM
It's going to sit in my safe until I can figure out how to get out of this ****ty state.

Beemerguy
08-07-2012, 8:39 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

senorpeligro
08-07-2012, 8:40 PM
Keep your receipts?

mconrad
08-07-2012, 8:48 PM
I am 61 years old, retired Marine Infantry Officer and law abiding citizen. I won't list the weapons I own here because I know that liberals, especially liberals in power, cannot be trusted. I will say his much. This is the first time in my adult life when I've decided I've had enough. Like millions of those who have gone before, I served because I believe in our Constituion and the complete Bill of Righs. I will NOT allow anyone to deny me my civil rights, and I will NEVER surrender my firearms, all of which were legally acquired. At some point you have to take a position and make a stand. This is mine.

frankm
08-07-2012, 9:41 PM
I'm with mconrad. Work toward a lawful solution publicly. DADT what happens in the shadows.

curtisfong
08-07-2012, 9:44 PM
Easy. If SB249 passes, register all your rifles as AWs

RMP91
08-07-2012, 9:56 PM
Easy. If SB249 passes, register all your rifles as AWs

Can't. The registry closed on January 1st, 2000.

You have to either surrender them, destroy them, weld/modify the gun(s) into compliance, or take them out of state.

Failure to do so means a double-digit year prison term and a permanent (non-restorable) revocation of gun rights...

I would not take any chances...

curtisfong
08-07-2012, 9:58 PM
SB249, as written, can't be passed w/o reopening the registry.

RMP91
08-07-2012, 10:02 PM
SB249, as written, can't be passed w/o reopening the registry.

There's no grandfather clause in this bill, what makes you think they'll re-open the registry?

curtisfong
08-07-2012, 10:05 PM
As written, adding a grandfather clause is the only way it will pass constitutional muster.

If that doesn't happen, the fight will be long and expensive, but the result is inevitable. No clause, no bill.

chris
08-07-2012, 10:11 PM
Can't. The registry closed on January 1st, 2000.

You have to either surrender them, destroy them, weld/modify the gun(s) into compliance, or take them out of state.

Failure to do so means a double-digit year prison term and a permanent (non-restorable) revocation of gun rights...

I would not take any chances...

the original registration in 2000 and in 1992 had little effect if any at all. there are possibly 1000's of unregistered so called AW's in this state that the law has never and probably never find out about.

now after AB1444 goes into effect in 2014 then there will be problems. and we know what follows registration "confiscation" when all arms are registered with the state nothing will really stop them from saying "turn them in we know who you are" now this is only for new rifle sales after the law goes into effect but you get the drift.


As written, adding a grandfather clause is the only way it will pass constitutional muster.

If that doesn't happen, the fight will be long and expensive, but the result is inevitable. No clause, no bill.
don't be so sure. these politicians care nothing for Constituntional muster they will pass this bill no matter the cost. there is a huge push for more gun control in this country again and this time it won't be pretty and yes the usual players are spouting the same disinformation to the masses that will gobble it up as fact.

and yes we have Heller and McDonald to help this time and the Miller case will no longer support them in their pursuit of banning all guns.

mud99
08-07-2012, 10:14 PM
I will not surrender or modify my firearms.

mausercat
08-07-2012, 10:33 PM
I am confident that after the court rulings that allowed the bb the state just can't take away our guns. They will have to buy them from us or open up the registry. I know that the courts will rule this way when we sue. The state can't take your property without compensation.

Oh and I know a way to bypass the bill as written. It will require a modification to the mag release but it can be done. I won't say how because they will just modify the bill to include this provision. I will post it if and after the bill passes.

NoHeavyHitter
08-07-2012, 10:40 PM
Has anyone thought of a new engineering solution to the law?

Crossbows?

ltmcarlson
08-07-2012, 10:54 PM
I for one will not turn in my guns or destroy them. Look on the bright side, I won't have to worry about where my next meal comes from in prison. What a great state we live in one day I am a law abiding tax paying Californian the next I'm a Criminal and I did nothing wrong. Talk about a tyrannical government.

sharxbyte
08-07-2012, 10:56 PM
Go featureless...

And start training on your SKS with 10 round stripper clips.


+1... Working on this right now...

Maltese Falcon
08-07-2012, 11:11 PM
I am 61 years old, retired Marine Infantry Officer and law abiding citizen. I won't list the weapons I own here because I know that liberals, especially liberals in power, cannot be trusted. I will say his much. This is the first time in my adult life when I've decided I've had enough. Like millions of those who have gone before, I served because I believe in our Constituion and the complete Bill of Righs. I will NOT allow anyone to deny me my civil rights, and I will NEVER surrender my firearms, all of which were legally acquired. At some point you have to take a position and make a stand. This is mine.

Sir, we take your lead.

.

gvbsat
08-07-2012, 11:21 PM
I for one will not turn in my guns or destroy them. Look on the bright side, I won't have to worry about where my next meal comes from in prison. What a great state we live in one day I am a law abiding tax paying Californian the next I'm a Criminal and I did nothing wrong. Talk about a tyrannical government.

Sad state. But if confiscation is what happens, and who ever takes a stand, it wont be three hots and a cot, it will most likely be a sad end, and they will win the short stand. I have kids, I dont take this light, I hope to see them grow up.

fastkevin
08-08-2012, 12:51 AM
I am 61 years old, retired Marine Infantry Officer and law abiding citizen. I won't list the weapons I own here because I know that liberals, especially liberals in power, cannot be trusted. I will say his much. This is the first time in my adult life when I've decided I've had enough. Like millions of those who have gone before, I served because I believe in our Constituion and the complete Bill of Righs. I will NOT allow anyone to deny me my civil rights, and I will NEVER surrender my firearms, all of which were legally acquired. At some point you have to take a position and make a stand. This is mine.
I am in COMPLEtE agreement. I came on to this thread thinking I'd read others stating emphatically that they bought their weapons legally, and they WON'T be giving them up.
I for one, WILL NOT destroy or alter ANYTHING I have. It's a cowardly act to do so IMO. For years everybody and their brothers have been saying that the government will have to 'pry their weapons from their cold dead hands'.
Well, now we're faced with the possibility of it happening, and all I see is people cowering.
This IS the scenario we've all been dreading. What do you think would happen if THOUSANDS of LEGAL gun owners said ENOUGH! You're NOT getting my weapons? Are we supposed to sit by and let a POS legislature ILLEGALLY confiscate our weapons and throw us in jail? You think by modifying your rifle to meet the 'new' law, it'll be over? I've got some beach-front property in New Mexico for you if you do. IF they get away with this one, the door will be open for them to continue to the point where you won't be able to own a Daisy bb gun. What then? Is there ANY point when any of you are gonna be willing to make a stand and say ENOUGH!?!?
Obviously we're all doing what we can to defeat this unconstitutional act. But if the people charged with making the laws show that they're willing to violate the constitution whenever they feel like it, nothing is gonna stop them.
This very same Constitution for-saw this possibility, which is the whole reason for the Second Amendment.
One 'crazy' guy barricaded in his house is just that.. a crazy guy barricaded in his house.
THOUSANDS of law-abiding gun-owners MAKING A STAND makes the powers that be take notice.
I'm not gonna modify diddly squat. I legally purchased my firearms, and my right to do so IS PROTECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION.
If they start knocking on doors, I hope I'm not the only one that's gonna stand up for OUR rights.

IPSICK
08-08-2012, 1:00 AM
There are still ways around this bill (a minor mod IMO) and if they try to regulate that end-around, then things get constitutionally interesting in a hurry.

We need to make a stand against this bill (politically), but we are not yet to the point of having to make a stand with risking life (armed resistance) or liberty (arrest and prison).

However, I will remain vigilant to not end up becoming a boiling frog.

Fissssh
08-08-2012, 1:01 AM
I am 61 years old, retired Marine Infantry Officer and law abiding citizen. I won't list the weapons I own here because I know that liberals, especially liberals in power, cannot be trusted. I will say his much. This is the first time in my adult life when I've decided I've had enough. Like millions of those who have gone before, I served because I believe in our Constituion and the complete Bill of Righs. I will NOT allow anyone to deny me my civil rights, and I will NEVER surrender my firearms, all of which were legally acquired. At some point you have to take a position and make a stand. This is mine.
:hurray::clap:

seattletocali
08-08-2012, 1:34 AM
This might have already been covered but IF passed will this new version of the bill have any effect on AR pistols built from 80 % lowers? Built for personal use?

unusedusername
08-08-2012, 1:40 AM
Has anyone thought of a new engineering solution to the law?

I know of at least two different people who have different approaches that would work, obviously I'm not posting them in public.

The funny thing is that one of them would cost less money then the BB :D

AeroEngi
08-08-2012, 1:43 AM
I know of at least two different people who have different approaches that would work, obviously I'm not posting them in public.

The funny thing is that one of them would cost less money then the BB :D

I have also thought of and drawn up a potential solution that will work.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

jrock
08-08-2012, 8:10 AM
tuned in..

spreading the word:

cross threading on offroad\xyz forums,...

post ads on craigslist for unrelated xyz items then have "defeat sb249" banner\text\"bullet" points alerting people of 2a attack.

list a bike for sale, skateboards, washer\dryer, vary products for diff groups, list below market price to drive attention.
dont respond or say sold already, or set up email to auto respond w\linked email to sb249 site.

MontClaire
08-08-2012, 8:13 AM
If the law is stupid and was written by stupid then only the stupid should follow.

Bhobbs
08-08-2012, 8:22 AM
featureless isn't bad, why would you consider top loading when you can run featureless unless all you are is a paper puncher?

besides i want this thing to pass now. please Mr Yee, throw us in the briar patch LOL

Yes, take away more of our rights so we can win them back, possibly, years later. During that time we will all be stuck with bolt rifles and rimfires.

:facepalm:

boamedt
08-08-2012, 8:25 AM
Is it me or am i the only one not getting why telling ur local senater or what ever will actually stop this bill. And if we do stop it, guess ehat? They can propose it again and again every f'in year...the real kicker? As taxpaying californians we pay they're salary to do this

mt4design
08-08-2012, 8:38 AM
I am 61 years old, retired Marine Infantry Officer and law abiding citizen. I won't list the weapons I own here because I know that liberals, especially liberals in power, cannot be trusted. I will say his much. This is the first time in my adult life when I've decided I've had enough. Like millions of those who have gone before, I served because I believe in our Constituion and the complete Bill of Righs. I will NOT allow anyone to deny me my civil rights, and I will NEVER surrender my firearms, all of which were legally acquired. At some point you have to take a position and make a stand. This is mine.

Dear Sir,

Your post gave me chills.

People in this nation have no true concept of what life is like living under an occupying force. I do because my own father endured such a tragic existence during WWII.

You want to know how cheap life can be? Talk to a survivor who saw how quickly things can change and how easily everything can be taken from you.

My father saw loved ones and friends beheaded on their front porches.

At 13, one morning my dad put his self between the barrel and bayonet of a Japanese soldier and his 3 year old brother because the Japanese soldier took offense to my 3 year old uncle looking at him too long.

Pleading with the soldier for my uncle's life, my father got the attention of the Japanese commander who allowed my father to take the punishment.

Fortunately, that punishment was reduced to standing for the rest of the day with his face to the sun.

What were my dad and uncle doing that morning near the Japanese soldier? They were trying to peek through the fence line to get a glimpse of my grandfather who was interned at Santo Thomas.

That's when he began working for the resistance.

Eventually, my father and family escaped the occupation by floating down a river on a make shift raft. My aunt, who was only about two, took a sniper round to her thigh. Part of that bullet still resides in her today.

My dad joined the U.S. Navy and served until he was discharged. He then joined the U.S.A.F. and served until he retired. After that, he ended up serving as a citizen with the rank of Lt. Col. overseas "around Viet Nam".

Liberty, and freedom, are only available to a free people. A free people can only maintain freedom if they are willing to fight and perhaps die to defend them.

Liberty, and freedom, are the enemy to any group of despots who wish to impose their will upon the masses. The ability of the occupying force to impose their will is paramount to controlling the populace and that cannot be done if the people are willing to sacrifice themselves for their posterity.

I feel I am living behind enemy lines where the power resides with a group of despots and tyranny has found a foothold.

What life will our children and their children be left to lead?

Mike

curtisfong
08-08-2012, 8:41 AM
Also, if they re-open the registry, what happens if I register 1000 80% lowers with serial numbers 1-1000?

Bhobbs
08-08-2012, 8:50 AM
Also, if they re-open the registry, what happens if I register 1000 80% lowers with serial numbers 1-1000?

They aren't opening the registry.

Wiz-of-Awd
08-08-2012, 9:08 AM
Also, if they re-open the registry, what happens if I register 1000 80% lowers with serial numbers 1-1000?

I think, and may certainly be wrong on this one...

You would not have or be required to have an S/N on a lower completed by you for your use.

Secondly, the quantity you describe may make you a manufacturer, that you would need licensing for...

A.W.D.

Wiz-of-Awd
08-08-2012, 9:12 AM
This might have already been covered but IF passed will this new version of the bill have any effect on AR pistols built from 80 % lowers? Built for personal use?

Best to leave those as your little secret, as they don't actually "exist." ;)

A.W.D.

oldrifle
08-08-2012, 9:22 AM
I am 61 years old, retired Marine Infantry Officer and law abiding citizen. I won't list the weapons I own here because I know that liberals, especially liberals in power, cannot be trusted. I will say his much. This is the first time in my adult life when I've decided I've had enough. Like millions of those who have gone before, I served because I believe in our Constituion and the complete Bill of Righs. I will NOT allow anyone to deny me my civil rights, and I will NEVER surrender my firearms, all of which were legally acquired. At some point you have to take a position and make a stand. This is mine.

I stand with you sir. I will not surrender my firearms either. I will leave the state before I do that. I've been getting the distinct feeling lately that the state of California doesn't want people like us around anyway... may as well take my tax dollars elsewhere.

the86d
08-08-2012, 9:51 AM
Now here is the kicker, if this happens, and citizens have little or no right to firearms for defense or otherwise who will be left?

The people willing to be victims. These people would be the people who chose to stay in the state, and have almost all rights to self-defense taken from them. When the cartels come, and stake-claim on people's land/house (like they almost do in AZ and TX) who will be the force to keep control? Obama has proven he cares not about drug-addicts and terrorists coming from the southern boarder. The Anti-gunners will just have their families raped, and tortured while they watch
(yes, this is done all the time in Mexico). They do not believe this will happen, but this is because they lived a sheltered life in drug use which only allows them to do/see one task at a time, like a symbol-clapping wind-up monkey, only with gun-laws and they only see things with blinders on.

Bt Doctur
08-08-2012, 9:55 AM
looks like Kalifornia wil be the leader in rebellion and the other states and militias will follow in step.
It`s only a matter of time to have the spark that lights the fire that turns into the inferno that cannot be extiguished for Freedom.
I wish this Proud Nation the speed and ability to keep itself FREE.

trob
08-08-2012, 10:00 AM
move...Arizona is a good choice.

Bt Doctur
08-08-2012, 10:00 AM
scary obit
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the

University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the

Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always

temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent

form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until

the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous

gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority

always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from

the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally

collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a

dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the

beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200

years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:

Born 1776, Died 2012
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory

McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens

of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low

income tenements and living off various forms of government

welfare."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of

democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population

already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million

criminal invaders called illegal's - and they vote - then we can say

goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.

If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how

much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our

freedom.

This is truly scary

sjwolf
08-08-2012, 10:25 AM
Anyone think there will be a demand/market for bullet button necklaces?

the86d
08-08-2012, 10:33 AM
Anyone think there will be a demand/market for bullet button necklaces?

I'd buy one made of Pinko-Commie teeth.

Wherryj
08-08-2012, 10:51 AM
i don't know about you guys, but i've decided that IF my BB equipped, AR, is banned here, i'm going to remove the gas tube, stake a plug into the gas block and remove the staked on fixture on the bolt that catches the gas to operate the bolt. or...simply go featureless.

i know...i brought this up before...

but...i will NOT surrender my firearms to a state! i will destroy or disable them first. i believe a state that will confiscate firearms WILL, eventually, turn on it's citizens....history, in particular, recent history, is very explict about that.

doing what i've described above will render my LW, Wylde chambered, 5.56 uppers into a straight pull, magazine fed, single shot rifle.

i have, as many of you do, too much $$$$ wrapped up in my AR to simply allow yee and his gun-grabbers access to a fine AR(s) (that may some day, be turned against us) and get no compensation in return.

now, unless they write more legislation outlawing the LOOKS of an AR, i'll at least be able to keep and use my investment.

after all...the LOOKS is what they're so fearsome of...don't believe that? why haven't they outlawed the M1 carbine? as an example. or the Ruger P series carbines? or the Ruger camp series carbines? the M1A? they all are of detachable magazine design...but they lack a PISTOL GRIP...look at the examples i've given...they are basically FEATURELESS AR's...the feared PISTOL GRIP is what strikes fear into the hearts of legislators; this may be next...i don't know...but for the moment we have to go with what we have.

I won't do this, but I WILL take my practice-and its jobs/taxes-to a state that respects it's citizens.

SoCalXD
08-08-2012, 11:43 AM
I know what the progressive statist will do if SB249 passes... they will send this OP a fruit basket for helping them to draft their next round of violations to our 2nd Ammendment Rights.

Shhhhh! Loose lips sink ships!

stix213
08-08-2012, 11:51 AM
Most my rifles are featureless, but it is my Saiga 12 and .50 Beowulf AR pistol that I don't know yet how to deal with.

CHIEFone
08-08-2012, 11:53 AM
scary obit
In 1887 Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor at the

University of Edinburgh, had this to say about the fall of the

Athenian Republic some 2,000 years prior: "A democracy is always

temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent

form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until

the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous

gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority

always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from

the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally

collapse over loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a

dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the

beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200

years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."
The Obituary follows:

Born 1776, Died 2012
It doesn't hurt to read this several times.
Professor Joseph Olson of Hamline University School of Law in St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the last Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Obama: 19 McCain: 29
Square miles of land won by: Obama: 580,000 McCain: 2,427,000
Population of counties won by: Obama: 127 million McCain: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Obama: 13.2 McCain: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory

McCain won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens

of the country.

Obama territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in low

income tenements and living off various forms of government

welfare."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the
"complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of

democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population

already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million

criminal invaders called illegal's - and they vote - then we can say

goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years.

If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.

If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how

much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our

freedom.

This is truly scary


^^^very intersting stuff here

rbaker5150
08-08-2012, 12:00 PM
I am against SB249. It is insane to allow one person in a position of power to force his will upon the people. If he decided that he did not like blue ink pens, would he impose a bill to outlaw blue ink pens? I do not agree with Yee at all. I also do not think anyone in power should be allowed to impose a bill that consists of their opinion of something, regardless of the topic.

I am going to be buying my first AR very soon.

pgg
08-08-2012, 12:40 PM
Oh for ****'s sake. I understand the frustration with Yee and pals, but listen to yourselves.


It's a terribly written, obviously unconstitutional PROPOSED law that has flaws totally discrete and unrelated to the 2A issues. The courts still work. Even if passed, it's not due to take effect until July 2013, so there's plenty of time to challenge it.

Take a deep breath, then take some calm rational and legal steps to oppose the law's passage, donate some money to CFG to support their great work on our behalf, and settle down.


This molon labe chestthumping is not only ridiculously premature but it makes us all look like idiot extremist gun nuts. :rolleyes: Some of you guys are acting like you're ready to die in a bed of hot brass rather than move to another state.


It'll be OK.

mt4design
08-08-2012, 1:46 PM
Oh for ****'s sake. I understand the frustration with Yee and pals, but listen to yourselves.


It's a terribly written, obviously unconstitutional PROPOSED law that has flaws totally discrete and unrelated to the 2A issues. The courts still work. Even if passed, it's not due to take effect until July 2013, so there's plenty of time to challenge it.

Take a deep breath, then take some calm rational and legal steps to oppose the law's passage, donate some money to CFG to support their great work on our behalf, and settle down.


This molon labe chestthumping is not only ridiculously premature but it makes us all look like idiot extremist gun nuts. :rolleyes: Some of you guys are acting like you're ready to die in a bed of hot brass rather than move to another state.


It'll be OK.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

"molon labe chestthumping"?

When, exactly, would you call your 300 Spartans and march them out to the gate at Thermopylae?

Would it be when Xerxes had already beaten down every other Greek state and marched right up to your doorstep?

Your position is so cavalier, especially given that SCOTUS hasn't shown itself recently to be a court who favors the U.S. Constitution at all.

Don't you find it at all interesting that this law, if passed, takes effect in less than one year and just before the nation's Independence Day?

Your solution in the face of tyranny is "move to another state."

I have forefathers who died so that that kind of bullsh*t wouldn't happen here.

I suppose we just have different opinions of what our personal responsibility is when standing up to the incursion of liberty.

Yours is flight.

Mine is fight.

3%

AfghanVetOrcutt
08-08-2012, 2:27 PM
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

"molon labe chestthumping"?

When, exactly, would you call your 300 Spartans and march them out to the gate at Thermopylae?

Would it be when Xerxes had already beaten down every other Greek state and marched right up to your doorstep?

Your position is so cavalier, especially given that SCOTUS hasn't shown itself recently to be a court who favors the U.S. Constitution at all.

Don't you find it at all interesting that this law, if passed, takes effect in less than one year and just before the nation's Independence Day?

Your solution in the face of tyranny is "move to another state."

I have forefathers who died so that that kind of bullsh*t wouldn't happen here.

I suppose we just have different opinions of what our personal responsibility is when standing up to the incursion of liberty.

Yours is flight.

Mine is fight.

3%

:iagree:

adampolo13
08-08-2012, 2:32 PM
:iagree:

+1....

curtisfong
08-08-2012, 2:32 PM
I think, and may certainly be wrong on this one...

You would not have or be required to have an S/N on a lower completed by you for your use.

For AW registration, you need a serial number.

So i'll make all 1000 80% lowers into 81% with a serial number on them, and register them all as AW.

curtisfong
08-08-2012, 2:33 PM
They aren't opening the registry.

Its a hypothetical :)

aklon
08-08-2012, 4:00 PM
I'll put them in a box and leave it at the corner of 98th and Foothill in Oakland rather than hand them over to the State of California.

(This is assuming we lose the state's civil war)

masayako
08-08-2012, 4:13 PM
I am 61 years old, retired Marine Infantry Officer and law abiding citizen. I won't list the weapons I own here because I know that liberals, especially liberals in power, cannot be trusted. I will say his much. This is the first time in my adult life when I've decided I've had enough. Like millions of those who have gone before, I served because I believe in our Constituion and the complete Bill of Righs. I will NOT allow anyone to deny me my civil rights, and I will NEVER surrender my firearms, all of which were legally acquired. At some point you have to take a position and make a stand. This is mine.


:gunsmilie::oji::punk:

gvbsat
08-08-2012, 4:18 PM
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

"molon labe chestthumping"?

When, exactly, would you call your 300 Spartans and march them out to the gate at Thermopylae?

Would it be when Xerxes had already beaten down every other Greek state and marched right up to your doorstep?

Your position is so cavalier, especially given that SCOTUS hasn't shown itself recently to be a court who favors the U.S. Constitution at all.

Don't you find it at all interesting that this law, if passed, takes effect in less than one year and just before the nation's Independence Day?

Your solution in the face of tyranny is "move to another state."

I have forefathers who died so that that kind of bullsh*t wouldn't happen here.

I suppose we just have different opinions of what our personal responsibility is when standing up to the incursion of liberty.

Yours is flight.

Mine is fight.

3%


Myself, my arms, my training is with you on this.

rspar
08-08-2012, 4:29 PM
Has the monster man grip alternative been talked about? Without a foregrip doesn't that make it featureless?

POLICESTATE
08-08-2012, 4:40 PM
Live free or die. That is the choice all of us may need to make at some point.

deepdudu
08-08-2012, 5:06 PM
rspar, I was just thinking about the same thing, and dug up an old thread on it
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=496072
-DDD

elSquid
08-08-2012, 5:16 PM
Live free or die. That is the choice all of us may need to make at some point.

And anybody who didn't raise the black flag when the first CA AW law passed, or the Federal AW ban passed, or when the SB23 feature ban passed, or when the CA mag ban passed...probably isn't going to do a damned thing if BBs are outlawed. It only stands to reason. SB249 is minor when compared to those.

If SB249 passes, I'll comply with the law. As will the overwhelming majority of CA gun owners. We'll then be looking to the Supreme Court for relief...

-- Michael

vantec08
08-08-2012, 5:21 PM
Even if it does pass, there will probably be an injunction against it's implementation. It goes all the way to SCOTUS, by the time it gets through there, we'll probably be too old to shoot anyway :)

Guarantee you some form of it will.

General
08-08-2012, 5:26 PM
Second that sir.

pgg
08-08-2012, 5:44 PM
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion.

"molon labe chestthumping"?

When, exactly, would you call your 300 Spartans and march them out to the gate at Thermopylae?

Would it be when Xerxes had already beaten down every other Greek state and marched right up to your doorstep?

Your position is so cavalier, especially given that SCOTUS hasn't shown itself recently to be a court who favors the U.S. Constitution at all.

Don't you find it at all interesting that this law, if passed, takes effect in less than one year and just before the nation's Independence Day?

Your solution in the face of tyranny is "move to another state."

I have forefathers who died so that that kind of bullsh*t wouldn't happen here.

I suppose we just have different opinions of what our personal responsibility is when standing up to the incursion of liberty.

Yours is flight.

Mine is fight.

3%

OK, Mr Fight, why didn't you die in a bed of hot brass when the 1994 federal AWB was passed? The overall outlook for our gun rights was a lot more bleak then.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ow, ow, my eyes, they hurt!


The courts still work, and we're winning.

My actual solution, which you quoted ... then ignored ... then confabulated into "flee" ... is

Take a deep breath, then take some calm rational and legal steps to oppose the law's passage, donate some money to CFG to support their great work on our behalf, and settle down.

And if that fails, the great majority of the states still have more respect for our 2A civil rights than California. If California executes some door-to-door gun grab like you're fantasizing about, you're really going to shoot and kill the police officers who ring your doorbell? Really? Instead of simply relocating to another state where you can enjoy your 2A rights, and continue to support legal contests that affect California and the country as a whole?


I say again, this molon labe **** is tiresome, waaaaaaaaaaay premature, and counterproductive. When rational non-gun-people see people like you natter on about calling your 300 Spartans out to Thermopylae, they don't think "wow, that sensible person might be right!"

They think "wow, that guy's crazy and maybe Yee is right."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

smle-man
08-08-2012, 6:48 PM
I know of at least two different people who have different approaches that would work, obviously I'm not posting them in public.

The funny thing is that one of them would cost less money then the BB :D

The work around is so obvious, so simple, and so easy that is actually funny.

Wiz-of-Awd
08-08-2012, 8:03 PM
Live free or die. That is the choice all of us may need to make at some point.

Likely true, but hopefully not.

I just don't see my wife and child being real well off if my choices end me up in a jail or the ground.

A.W.D

Wiz-of-Awd
08-08-2012, 8:08 PM
For AW registration, you need a serial number.

So i'll make all 1000 80% lowers into 81% with a serial number on them, and register them all as AW.

I think my point was...

...if you manufacture a firearm for your own use from an 80%, they don't know about it - it doesn't actually exist, and you don't register *****...

A.W.D.

Wiz-of-Awd
08-08-2012, 8:11 PM
As written, adding a grandfather clause is the only way it will pass constitutional muster.

If that doesn't happen, the fight will be long and expensive, but the result is inevitable. No clause, no bill.

I think that this will be the undoing of the bill.

It's just not likely to pass without it, and in the end - may help us win even bigger.

A.W.D.

Nodda Duma
08-08-2012, 8:22 PM
OK, Mr Fight, why didn't you die in a bed of hot brass when the 1994 federal AWB was passed? The overall outlook for our gun rights was a lot more bleak then.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ow, ow, my eyes, they hurt!


The courts still work, and we're winning.

My actual solution, which you quoted ... then ignored ... then confabulated into "flee" ... is



And if that fails, the great majority of the states still have more respect for our 2A civil rights than California. If California executes some door-to-door gun grab like you're fantasizing about, you're really going to shoot and kill the police officers who ring your doorbell? Really? Instead of simply relocating to another state where you can enjoy your 2A rights, and continue to support legal contests that affect California and the country as a whole?


I say again, this molon labe **** is tiresome, waaaaaaaaaaay premature, and counterproductive. When rational non-gun-people see people like you natter on about calling your 300 Spartans out to Thermopylae, they don't think "wow, that sensible person might be right!"

They think "wow, that guy's crazy and maybe Yee is right."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I'm sure Loyalists had similar arguments in 1775.

Americans didn't start fighting when the Stamp Act was passed, when the Boston Massacre occurred, or all the other transgressions which took place right up until the British marched on Lexington and Concord. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, and it was a relatively minor thing (marching to take firearms they had declared to be illegal) compared to what had happened before.

When, sir, would you suggest a stand be made? As a gun owner, YOUR voice is NOT heard in Sacramento. YOU have NO say in how you will be governed. NONE. Your vote doesn't even make a difference. What do YOU suggest which will create *any measurable difference* in how the state of California views your "so-called protected" rights and liberty? Rely on a process which removes your freedoms one step at a time? Carry on, good sir. Carry on!

mt4design
08-08-2012, 8:30 PM
OK, Mr Fight, why didn't you die in a bed of hot brass when the 1994 federal AWB was passed? The overall outlook for our gun rights was a lot more bleak then.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ow, ow, my eyes, they hurt!


The courts still work, and we're winning.

My actual solution, which you quoted ... then ignored ... then confabulated into "flee" ... is



And if that fails, the great majority of the states still have more respect for our 2A civil rights than California. If California executes some door-to-door gun grab like you're fantasizing about, you're really going to shoot and kill the police officers who ring your doorbell? Really? Instead of simply relocating to another state where you can enjoy your 2A rights, and continue to support legal contests that affect California and the country as a whole?


I say again, this molon labe **** is tiresome, waaaaaaaaaaay premature, and counterproductive. When rational non-gun-people see people like you natter on about calling your 300 Spartans out to Thermopylae, they don't think "wow, that sensible person might be right!"

They think "wow, that guy's crazy and maybe Yee is right."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm betting you have no clue what life is like living under occupation.

That's fine. I wish you well.

But, my family has first hand, up close and personal knowledge. In fact, my father walked the walk living behind enemy lines.

You mention again, it's no big deal just go to some other state where the Second Amendment is cherished.

Bullsh*t.

I was BORN in this state.

I should move because some idiots want to make marginal the documents that founded this nation?

I know where you stand. That's fine.

Some people take a stand, others flee.

I stand by EVERYTHING I wrote though I am not at all surprised you quoted your self in answering me.

I'll quote someone else...

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson

If the police are actively engaged in waging war against the citizens by participating in a gun grab, is that the nation you want to reside in?

Is that the nation so many of our loved ones fought and even died defending?

If you are comfortable living in that nation, then go back to sleep and let someone who understands the stakes take on what you are unwilling to.

And, to further clarify, I never yelled "To arms".

I only questioned you as to when you would yell, "To arms", and postulated as to if it would be when the jack boot thugs came knocking on your door.

We all know that by then it will be too late.

mt4design
08-08-2012, 8:31 PM
I'm sure Loyalists had similar arguments in 1775.

Americans didn't start fighting when the Stamp Act was passed, when the Boston Massacre occurred, or all the other transgressions which took place right up until the British marched on Lexington and Concord. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, and it was a relatively minor thing (marching to take firearms they had declared to be illegal) compared to what had happened before.

When, sir, would you suggest a stand be made? As a gun owner, YOUR voice is NOT heard in Sacramento. YOU have NO say in how you will be governed. NONE. Your vote doesn't even make a difference. What do YOU suggest which will create *any measurable difference* in how the state of California views your "so-called protected" rights and liberty? Rely on a process which removes your freedoms one step at a time? Carry on, good sir. Carry on!

Absolutely spot on.

ohnozombeez
08-08-2012, 9:10 PM
I get mad everytime I think about this bill and the ban. I barely got into this too, about 6 months, and just recently have gone to a tacticle carbine class and loved it that i wanted to do another class then caught wind of a government who is suppose to protect me, now wants me to give up something I love and used my hard earned money to purchase. Ive signed the 249 petition and have been tellin everyone i know about it. Im not sure what will happen if this nightmare becomes a reality. I do know for now I will continue to go shoot at my local range. Im not that great with my handgun, but maybe hone my skills at that and just recently got into bolt action rifles and try to see how far I can go with the little cheap savage axis i have.

curtisfong
08-08-2012, 10:30 PM
I think my point was...

...if you manufacture a firearm for your own use from an 80%, they don't know about it - it doesn't actually exist, and you don't register *****...

A.W.D.

The point is, i now have 1000 100% LEGAL, documented, papered RAWs.

If everybody on calguns did the same, Yee will have created millions of legally possessed RAWs in CA.

thepunisher
08-08-2012, 10:58 PM
And anybody who didn't raise the black flag when the first CA AW law passed, or the Federal AW ban passed, or when the SB23 feature ban passed, or when the CA mag ban passed...probably isn't going to do a damned thing if BBs are outlawed. It only stands to reason. SB249 is minor when compared to those.

If SB249 passes, I'll comply with the law. As will the overwhelming majority of CA gun owners. We'll then be looking to the Supreme Court for relief...

-- Michael


I was too young to help to fight those, but I'm here to fight this. Those were up to the generation before, but they failed or did not pay attention. We must be united and fight this to the bitter end. I will never give up, I will never surrender.

"Tonight we dine in Hell" jk :43:

prob
08-08-2012, 11:40 PM
Even if it does pass, there will probably be an injunction against it's implementation. It goes all the way to SCOTUS, by the time it gets through there, we'll probably be too old to shoot anyway :)

Respectfully, I think your dreaming.


SB249 will do something we haven't been able to do in years, get most of the gun owners in this state to get involved.

Nicki

Nicki,
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but in my experience there is no greater apathy than that found in most gun owners.

TRICKSTER
08-08-2012, 11:59 PM
1: Contact your state representatives and tell them that you oppose this bill.

2: For those here that vote and support Democrats, call the state party head and Democrat representatives and tell them that you will no longer support the party, or any democrat politician, in any way, until they put a stop to these radical members authoring these types of laws.


“It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices” - Chief Justice Roberts

andyman
08-09-2012, 12:48 AM
I don't own any bullet buttons but this bill is pissing me off. Its actually starting to get me to look at buying a SCAR 17 before it becomes law. I've contacted John Burton regarding this. Probably won't go anywhere but we'll see what he tells me. I'm a registered democrat and I may have to change parties.

desertjosh
08-09-2012, 6:25 AM
I get mad everytime I think about this bill and the ban. I barely got into this too, about 6 months, and just recently have gone to a tacticle carbine class and loved it that i wanted to do another class then caught wind of a government who is suppose to protect me, now wants me to give up something I love and used my hard earned money to purchase. Ive signed the 249 petition and have been tellin everyone i know about it. Im not sure what will happen if this nightmare becomes a reality. I do know for now I will continue to go shoot at my local range. Im not that great with my handgun, but maybe hone my skills at that and just recently got into bolt action rifles and try to see how far I can go with the little cheap savage axis i have.

Dont rely on the government to protect you. Most laws are about control and nothing else. I have the same cheap axis in .308. Shoots slightly less then MOA bone stock. Its a great gun for the $.

SierraGuns
08-09-2012, 6:34 AM
Would the Prince50 Mag-Lock be a solution?

pgg
08-09-2012, 8:28 AM
When, sir, would you suggest a stand be made?

I only questioned you as to when you would yell, "To arms", and postulated as to if it would be when the jack boot thugs came knocking on your door.

I've answered that twice already in this thread, but here's a third time -

When the courts and due process stop working.


We all know that by then it will be too late.

So, to be clear, your threshold for armed rebellion is passage of SB249, at which point you'll pre-empt anticipated confiscation and march on Sacramento? :facepalm:



As a gun owner, YOUR voice is NOT heard in Sacramento. YOU have NO say in how you will be governed. NONE. Your vote doesn't even make a difference. What do YOU suggest which will create *any measurable difference* in how the state of California views your "so-called protected" rights and liberty? Rely on a process which removes your freedoms one step at a time? Carry on, good sir. Carry on!

It's well recognized that progress on 2A rights can't and won't be made through the CA state legislature ... which is why the major efforts to restore and protect gun rights are aimed at the judicial path, specifically FEDERAL courts.

This strategy will work - IS working - and to be blunt, patriotic and well meaning knuckleheads calling for armed insurrection at this point aren't helping.

So tone down the molon labe rhetoric (which aside from being absurdly premature, exposes some fringe kookiness that doesn't help our cause amongst undecided or neutral people), and choose to contribute in some meaningful way within the law. Volunteer time, or if you can't do that, donate money to CGF to support their work. Take a non-gun-owning neighbor to the range and show them how much fun it is (just don't tell them your plans for violent rebellion vs the government).


And above all don't be such a whiny despairing dramatic *****. It's going to be OK. Our AR15s aren't going anywhere because of SB249. We're fighting it, and we'll win. And then Yee et al will try again, and we'll fight that too. And at some point federal courts and SCOTUS will hand down decisions that clarify and limit what clowns like Yee can do. We have every reason to think those decisions will be favorable.


2012 California's treatment of the 2nd Amendment is the equivalent of 1960 Mississippi's treatment of black people. They had no hope of asserting their civil rights through the state legislature, but careful, well planned, peaceful activism through the federal legislature and courts worked. The same strategy will work - IS working - here for us today.


For the love of god, the NFA is 80 years old, the GCA is 40+ years old, and we've had Heller and McDonald for less than five. Settle down.

curtisfong
08-09-2012, 8:31 AM
It's well recognized that progress on 2A rights can't and won't be made through the CA state legislature ... which is why the major efforts to restore and protect gun rights are aimed at the judicial path, specifically FEDERAL courts.

This strategy will work - IS working - and to be blunt, patriotic and well meaning knuckleheads calling for armed insurrection at this point aren't helping.

So tone down the molon labe rhetoric (which aside from being absurdly premature, exposes some fringe kookiness that doesn't help our cause amongst undecided or neutral people), and choose to contribute in some meaningful way within the law. Volunteer time, or if you can't do that, donate money to CGF to support their work. Take a non-gun-owning neighbor to the range and show them how much fun it is (just don't tell them your plans for violent rebellion vs the government).


Agreed 100%

Bhobbs
08-09-2012, 8:36 AM
OK, Mr Fight, why didn't you die in a bed of hot brass when the 1994 federal AWB was passed? The overall outlook for our gun rights was a lot more bleak then.



:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ow, ow, my eyes, they hurt!


The courts still work, and we're winning.

My actual solution, which you quoted ... then ignored ... then confabulated into "flee" ... is



And if that fails, the great majority of the states still have more respect for our 2A civil rights than California. If California executes some door-to-door gun grab like you're fantasizing about, you're really going to shoot and kill the police officers who ring your doorbell? Really? Instead of simply relocating to another state where you can enjoy your 2A rights, and continue to support legal contests that affect California and the country as a whole?


I say again, this molon labe **** is tiresome, waaaaaaaaaaay premature, and counterproductive. When rational non-gun-people see people like you natter on about calling your 300 Spartans out to Thermopylae, they don't think "wow, that sensible person might be right!"

They think "wow, that guy's crazy and maybe Yee is right."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The Federal AWB sunset. The courts didn't do anything about it. So far the courts aren't working. They are ignoring or twisting previous rulings to avoid ruling in our favor.

domino
08-09-2012, 8:54 AM
For my part, I have several friends and relatives out of state. They will be glad to store my firearms until I can put the homestead on the market. With the continual declining economy in California, the ever increasing spending (do we really need a bullet train?), taxes, regulatory burden, war against the automobile and all the rest, it's time to leave. The only thing keeping us here has been Proposition 13.

I worked for the government long enough to know that California can't be fixed in my remaining lifetime. There are some signs of change, such as a large percentage of SEIU's membership turning agency shop in several local governments, but it may be too little, too late.

Packing up and leaving will be a monumental task, but there's nothing holding us here. If SB 249 passes, and is not swiftly overturned, it will be the final straw.

I so strongly agree with everything you just said. I have only 6 more years to go and then the house will either go on the market or be a rental and we have already purchased land and a home in good ole Idaho. One of the true last free states. An outdoors mans playground for sure and without the laws. It amazes me how many laws get passed here every year. It seems the states with a full time legislature are the ones that are hurting the most. The states with a part time legislature are the more free ones and they have better economies and are more business friendly, taxes are generally lower as well. Why does Kalifornia need liberals passing 800 new laws every single year. It is almost like they sit around and just think of laws to create to make themselves feel better. They call themselves full time but really we are fulltime employees hell when was the last time you got 4 weeks off for a legislature break and right before you go on break you give you and your friends raises.

I cant wait to one day be out of here. My AR's will be shipped to my son who is in the 101st and resides off post in Tennessee. Heck you can walk into walmart back there and buy just about anything and they dont have nearly the crimes we do out here. The legislatures in CA are so awesome and protecting us, for example just take a look at Stockton. For that matter take a look at Chicago, they too have the tougher laws in the US but they also get to wear the badge with the highest murder rate in the land...

Not long ago Armstrong and Getty had Sen. Lieu and he said a comment that rung my bell. They were talking about gender changes and minors and keeping them safe and at the same time Getty said what about a power balance bracelet and he said "We will let you have that as it doesn't pose a danger or mentally hurt you", "he will let us have that".....Gee thanks, can you make sure that the toilet paper I wipe with is safe too....

domino
08-09-2012, 9:07 AM
I'm betting you have no clue what life is like living under occupation.

That's fine. I wish you well.

But, my family has first hand, up close and personal knowledge. In fact, my father walked the walk living behind enemy lines.

You mention again, it's no big deal just go to some other state where the Second Amendment is cherished.

Bullsh*t.

I was BORN in this state.

I should move because some idiots want to make marginal the documents that founded this nation?

I know where you stand. That's fine.

Some people take a stand, others flee.

I stand by EVERYTHING I wrote though I am not at all surprised you quoted your self in answering me.

I'll quote someone else...

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson

If the police are actively engaged in waging war against the citizens by participating in a gun grab, is that the nation you want to reside in?

Is that the nation so many of our loved ones fought and even died defending?

If you are comfortable living in that nation, then go back to sleep and let someone who understands the stakes take on what you are unwilling to.

And, to further clarify, I never yelled "To arms".

I only questioned you as to when you would yell, "To arms", and postulated as to if it would be when the jack boot thugs came knocking on your door.

We all know that by then it will be too late.

I too was born in this state, I too have family that was oppressed. I too love it here but it just isnt about guns and the 2A for some of us. It is about our future in this state along with our childrens future. Hell I doubt my honor roll daughter will even be able to get into college out here because her skin is white. There are numerous problems with this state and it gets worse every single year. It isnt going to change and has only been going down hill. I think you are looking at just a gun grab where as some of us think this is part of the last straw breaking the camels back. It is just one more thing to add to the growing list of problems for some of us to consider. You cant have a happy meal with a toy, you cant do this you cant do that. The voters in this state have spoken for many years now and nothing gets fixed or changes. Jut look at Prop 8 we voted and made it law, we the people of this state, but is it law? This state makes special little classes of people - no offense because I dont give a crap what someones sexual orientation is but now the gay community is a special protected group of people in this state, just last night on the news a State Sen has ordered an audit of all the schools in CA to make sure that anti bullying laws against gays are being followed and if they are not then he is going to pass specific legislation to ensure they are protected against being bullied. Go figure...It is all about entitlements and special groups of people int his state. Obviously my votes and my representatives don't speak for me but they tell me how to live my life. Just look at the car seat laws, there was no danger to keeping the age and weight limits where they were, but they decided because one kid that was small in size and 8 yrs old was hurt that we needed to raise the age and weight limit. I remember riding around in the back of a pick up truck when I was kid here in CA and I am 41 now and still alive.

TURBOELKY
08-09-2012, 1:40 PM
I too was born in this state, I too have family that was oppressed. I too love it here but it just isnt about guns and the 2A for some of us. It is about our future in this state along with our childrens future. Hell I doubt my honor roll daughter will even be able to get into college out here because her skin is white. There are numerous problems with this state and it gets worse every single year. It isnt going to change and has only been going down hill. I think you are looking at just a gun grab where as some of us think this is part of the last straw breaking the camels back. It is just one more thing to add to the growing list of problems for some of us to consider. You cant have a happy meal with a toy, you cant do this you cant do that. The voters in this state have spoken for many years now and nothing gets fixed or changes. Jut look at Prop 8 we voted and made it law, we the people of this state, but is it law? This state makes special little classes of people - no offense because I dont give a crap what someones sexual orientation is but now the gay community is a special protected group of people in this state, just last night on the news a State Sen has ordered an audit of all the schools in CA to make sure that anti bullying laws against gays are being followed and if they are not then he is going to pass specific legislation to ensure they are protected against being bullied. Go figure...It is all about entitlements and special groups of people int his state. Obviously my votes and my representatives don't speak for me but they tell me how to live my life. Just look at the car seat laws, there was no danger to keeping the age and weight limits where they were, but they decided because one kid that was small in size and 8 yrs old was hurt that we needed to raise the age and weight limit. I remember riding around in the back of a pick up truck when I was kid here in CA and I am 41 now and still alive.

I agree with you 100%. This state is all i know, but even i remember riding in the back of a pickup, back window rifle racks! all that good stuff. Things here in cali now are down right outrageous, un constitutional, and make less sense every day.

If i didnt have a son, i would be in texas, arizona, or anywhere "free. "
Californias laws and government related issues are like a live, real life soap opra. We get the drama while the rest of the states look in from the outside happy its not themselves. Makes me sad.

vincewarde
08-10-2012, 11:32 AM
I agree with those who say this will go all the way to SCOTUS. I also believe there will be an injunction. That said, I think the outcome will depend upon who is on the court at the time. If the five vote Heller/McDonald majority is still intact, I think there is a very good chance that the whole CA AW ban is struck down. Over reaching can be dangerous - and Yee is clearly over reaching.

SinglePoint
08-10-2012, 6:47 PM
Buy and accurize another Mini until the bill gets booted in court...

Schlyme
08-10-2012, 7:08 PM
I'm planning on buying some stripped calguns lowers at the glendale gunshow this weekend to build a few featureless freedom rifles! I also plan on buying Yee buttons for them, just for s**ts n giggles.

edt: featureless meaning skeleton stock, muzzle break, hammerhead or monsterman grip and maybe a muzzle break ;)

colors
08-11-2012, 6:17 AM
Does anyone know what would happen to the registerd rifles i guess if it passes and it is in this stupid bill somewhere they will know exactly where to go to pick them up?

vantec08
08-11-2012, 6:33 AM
Does anyone know what would happen to the registerd rifles i guess if it passes and it is in this stupid bill somewhere they will know exactly where to go to pick them up?

There is only one reason for registration - - - -to preceed confiscation.

OleCuss
08-11-2012, 7:16 AM
What will I do if SB249 is enacted and injunctive relief is not granted?

Well, I think that if possible I will sue for damages/compensation.

If you got your AR-15 because you wanted to have "evil features" and were willing to use a BB in order to have them, conversion to featureless is not acceptable. Telling you that you can no longer have the firearm of your choice is a taking of that firearm and making it irreplaceable.

Everyone with a firearm which is being banned under SB249 should sue the State for something like $20 million. If you don't have the funds for the lawsuit, we should see if this could be done through small claims court and sue for the maximum there.

I'm no lawyer so I don't know if what I plan is possible. But an uncompensated taking (and a taking at the current market prices) is IMHO unacceptable. If SB249 is enacted our featured firearms will be irreplaceable at any price and the price the State should have to pay should be immense - at least millions for each firearm.

I mean, if you want to buy a Picasso painting you can do so - you just have to pay the market price. But if SB249 passes you will not be able to buy or build the firearm of your choice at any price. Under SB249 your featured rifle is suddenly more precious than any Picasso, Rembrandt, etc.

SB249 is not drawing a fine line. It would be the banning of firearms which are clearly Constitutionally protected - and it would be combined with an illegal taking. The idea that we should be altering our firearms to please Yee is repulsive to me.

No one should alter their firearm to comply with SB249.

OleCuss
08-11-2012, 7:19 AM
Does anyone know what would happen to the registerd rifles i guess if it passes and it is in this stupid bill somewhere they will know exactly where to go to pick them up?

I don't think SB249 applies to RAWs.

colors
08-11-2012, 9:22 AM
Thanks OleCuss, I dont ever want to give them my rifles as with everyone else we all have alot of money into them, i dont know i guess if it were to pass i would try to ship them to AZ till the dust settles in the courts here. I remember when we had to register them we had a grace period that would be the time to ship them.

Capybara
08-11-2012, 10:50 AM
Class Action, Class Action, Class Action!

Wiz-of-Awd
08-11-2012, 11:07 AM
Step 1. Go here, and buy one!
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/16-Light-Weight-22-Upper-1804

Step 2. Remove your existing upper from your lower

Step 3. Remove bullcrap button, and [re]install proper mag release on lower

Step 4. Install newly acquired .22LR upper on lower

Step 5. Stash original upper for a rainy day :)
(open to interpretation)

Step 5. Respectfully tell those responsible for taking your rights from you to:
A. Pound sand, and...
B. Go piss up a rope

Step 6. Repeat as required


You're welcome!

A.W.D.

Bhobbs
08-11-2012, 11:15 AM
What will I do if SB249 is enacted and injunctive relief is not granted?

Well, I think that if possible I will sue for damages/compensation.

If you got your AR-15 because you wanted to have "evil features" and were willing to use a BB in order to have them, conversion to featureless is not acceptable. Telling you that you can no longer have the firearm of your choice is a taking of that firearm and making it irreplaceable.

Everyone with a firearm which is being banned under SB249 should sue the State for something like $20 million. If you don't have the funds for the lawsuit, we should see if this could be done through small claims court and sue for the maximum there.

I'm no lawyer so I don't know if what I plan is possible. But an uncompensated taking (and a taking at the current market prices) is IMHO unacceptable. If SB249 is enacted our featured firearms will be irreplaceable at any price and the price the State should have to pay should be immense - at least millions for each firearm.

I mean, if you want to buy a Picasso painting you can do so - you just have to pay the market price. But if SB249 passes you will not be able to buy or build the firearm of your choice at any price. Under SB249 your featured rifle is suddenly more precious than any Picasso, Rembrandt, etc.

SB249 is not drawing a fine line. It would be the banning of firearms which are clearly Constitutionally protected - and it would be combined with an illegal taking. The idea that we should be altering our firearms to please Yee is repulsive to me.

No one should alter their firearm to comply with SB249.


This is the problem I have. I hate featureless ARs. I would not convert an AR to featureless. If I wanted a rifle that is featureless I would get a Mini 14 or a M1a. If, more likely when, SB249 passes it is taking away the AR15 I want.