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View Full Version : Hi, either need link or clarification-- IS the DOJ keeping long gun PURCHASING record


DisgruntledReaper
08-06-2012, 10:01 PM
Hey guys, in light of all the SB249 crap, I have a question regarding something I saw here or on another forum and cant find and I would like a confimation or clarification...

I have seen some references to the CA POS DOinJ dept keeping the PURCHASING info on long gun purchases made.. ie Name, shop,type of long gun,etc and putting it in a 'file with your name on it' .....soooo while it is not keeping the actual DROS info(which we all know is SUPPOSED to be DESTROYED) , they may in fact be breaking the law in the typical backdoor round about way....

I am asking for any link or confirmation/clarification due to the last couple times My self and a bunch of friends (1 is LAPD) were out shooting and both times a BLM or other agent shows up and pulls the whole ' those are illegally configured, I/'we' have to take them and confirmm they are registered to you, etc, blah blah crap.... and they only piped down when the one friend did the magic 'badge flash' ..then its all tea and biscuits....

I would like to still be able to tell them 'rifles and shotguns are NOT registered like handguns so 'running the #s will do nothing but waste both our time and aggravate both parties...... and they ARE legally owned and constructed.....

If the state is keeping records of long gun buying based on purchasing info, they are breaking the law and I would like to add that little tid bit to any defense regarding BS attempts at confiscating, hassling, maybe arresting scenarios ...

Thank you in advance:cool:

taperxz
08-06-2012, 10:44 PM
Currently there is no long gun registry in CA. May change in 2014 pending court.

frankm
08-06-2012, 11:29 PM
You must assume they are keeping the records. They got the DROS entered and checked you out. Then you think they just delete it? Think about it. When has any government entity voluntarily deleted records?

stix213
08-06-2012, 11:31 PM
The gun store keeps the records for 20 years, so doesn't much matter what the DOJ is saving. If they need the info they can get it.

wash
08-06-2012, 11:43 PM
You can be sure that there is a file with your name on it somewhere.

Ca will never admit it so there is no way to use it in your favor.

The key is making sure that the only things in that file are some DROS records. If you can do that, the only thing the file is good for is confiscation and if it comes to that, you can make it hard on them.

kaligaran
08-07-2012, 12:00 AM
What records of purchases must firearms dealers maintain and how long must they be retained?
A computer-generated hardcopy of the DROS information must be printed out when the DROS information is transmitted and signed by the purchaser and dealer. Signed DROS worksheets or computer printouts must be retained by the dealer in consecutive order for three years.

Source: http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs#11G

That's just state. There may be additional requirements for the FFL federally.

Librarian
08-07-2012, 12:21 AM
If the state is keeping records of long gun buying based on purchasing info, they are breaking the law and I would like to add that little tid bit to any defense regarding BS attempts at confiscating, hassling, maybe arresting scenarios ...
In order for the state to save information on long guns, that information must first be collected.

DROS does not (yet) collect more than 'buyer' and 'long gun'. The Federal 4473 collects more, but that doesn't get sent to CA DOJ.

thedrickel
08-07-2012, 12:28 AM
Some dealers fall under their magical spell and allow the DOJ to photocopy records which they don't necessarily have the right to copy.

DisgruntledReaper
08-07-2012, 7:23 AM
OK, thank's for the reply guys but then with dealing with being in the boonies and the leos state 'we are going to have to make sure these are registered to you ' garbage comes up and they want to make to wait for hours and crap(happens) or try to confiscate your stuff......well all I can say is they wont take mine, we will all go right to there station and do it together.... or how do you guys handle it aside from what I started in my opening post??

Like you said there is no way for them to check---in any reasonable time and leaving my stuff with them is unnacceptable..

Thank you all

OleCuss
08-07-2012, 7:32 AM
One other possibility?

I believe that if the FFL goes out of business their records go to some governmental entity (maybe the DOJ?).

So if your FFL goes kaput it may be that the government gets all the data on the sale which the FFL had.

donw
08-07-2012, 7:47 AM
i would suspect, that ANY firearms purchase you've made within the last 10 years is recorded SOMEWERE or in numerous locations. (well, since the anti-gun hysteria that's gripped some facets of our government entities, anyway.)

what frankm said is surely truthful

i also suspect that many firearms are "lost", especially ones that were purchased even five years ago, due to the vastness and complications in the "System(s)"...the sheer number of firearms purchased is mind-boggling and past data is not that easily recovered or relocated.

DisgruntledReaper
08-07-2012, 10:04 PM
Thank's and good enough... I will just maintain the 'legal position' and continue to state to any LEO who implies the 'confirming my rifles,shotguns are 'registered to me' is a fallacy because they are -not currently- registered like handguns..

desertjosh
08-07-2012, 10:08 PM
You can be sure that there is a file with your name on it somewhere.

Ca will never admit it so there is no way to use it in your favor.

The key is making sure that the only things in that file are some DROS records. If you can do that, the only thing the file is good for is confiscation and if it comes to that, you can make it hard on them.

VERY well said!

randian
08-08-2012, 5:32 PM
Some dealers fall under their magical spell and allow the DOJ to photocopy records which they don't necessarily have the right to copy.
I believe that's called "abusing your licensing authority". Good luck challenging that.

OlderThanDirt
08-08-2012, 10:52 PM
In order for the state to save information on long guns, that information must first be collected.

DROS does not (yet) collect more than 'buyer' and 'long gun'. The Federal 4473 collects more, but that doesn't get sent to CA DOJ.

And ATF would never cooperate and share information with the CA DOJ regarding compliance with state laws...well except for that off list handgun PPT thingie in Sacramento recently.