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USMCM16A2
08-03-2012, 5:01 PM
Folks,


Although the potential language change to SB249 to outlaw the "Bullet Button" has many of us in an uproar, we need to stop and take action. I called the Second Amendment Foundation, NRA and called FFL friends of mine. I agree that we need to bring in the National conservative Media into this.
While at lunch I called the Sean Hannity show on Sirius, Tom Sullivan Show and so on. We are fighting for our 2A lives right now. This SOB wants to take away our AR/AK rifles that were legally purchased.
Do not just lay down and show your belly, lets make Yee pay for every inch of territory he wants to take away. DO ALL OF YOURSELVES a favor, read the legislative analysis of the bill done by the state. It has clues in it, this is the bill as it presently written.
This idiot CANNOT just walk in and take our legally aquired property, there a BIG stumbling blocks to his ultimate goal. All legal teams for all the major Pro-2A are on it. All the armchair idiots here at this forum need to stop hassling Wildhawker, Brendon is busting his butt and doing everything possible to bring this fight to Yee. A2

Dutch3
08-03-2012, 5:17 PM
Around the time of the last amendments, Kevin DeLeon and Anthony Portantino were added as "co-authors" on the bill. Any thoughts as to bringing this to light among their constituents?

acolytes
08-03-2012, 5:22 PM
Agreed. It seems like people are pretty quick to complain about the gun laws in CA, but pretty slow to make any kind of contribution or effort towards fighting them. IF SB249 is passed, there will be a lot of moaning and complaining. Something as little as making a small $10 donation can help fight this.

cjc16
08-03-2012, 5:39 PM
Send every last political hack that is supposedly representing us in Sacramento an e-mail that they will be fired if the even think about voting in support of SB 249.
Sign all the petitions on StopSB249.org
We are the majority. Let's flex our muscle in Sacramento.
I get the feeling that Yee realizes he has bitten off more than he can chew in this fight.

ewarmour
08-03-2012, 5:39 PM
https://interland3.donorperfect.net/Images/calgunsfnd/CGF_SWORDS_2012_reduced.jpg

Items selected for ewarmour
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wildhawker
08-03-2012, 5:56 PM
I'll have an action plan email out as soon as I can get it put together; am waiting on 1 more piece of info. I just got off the phone with Alan Gottlieb and I can assure you that he and CCRKBA are fully behind us on Stop SB 249.

-Brandon

daveinwoodland
08-03-2012, 7:19 PM
Post in San Mateo Patch regarding 249 mentions Cal Guns:

Will S
3:42 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
Hundreds of thousands of Californians own semiautomatic rifles and dutifully comply with the laws in regard to bullet buttons and 10-round magazines on a daily basis. Even though these laws are unconstitutional infringements, the overwhelming majority of firearm owners in this state bend over backward to be sure they are in compliance. It isn't easy.

The laws are so convoluted and complex that one enthusiast site has even created a flowchart to assist owners (and law enforcement) in determining what is legal in this state. http://calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

Ironically, it is these law-abiding gun owners who are the target of SB 249. It certainly would not affect those who ignore the law; they would not pay any attention to it. It would be those who have taken the time to educate themselves and ensure their rifles are in compliance with the existing infringements that would become instant felons.

This is obviously poor legislation introduced by a senator whose ignorance knows no bounds.

acolytes
08-03-2012, 7:25 PM
Post in San Mateo Patch regarding 249 mentions Cal Guns:

Will S
3:42 pm on Friday, August 3, 2012
Hundreds of thousands of Californians own semiautomatic rifles and dutifully comply with the laws in regard to bullet buttons and 10-round magazines on a daily basis. Even though these laws are unconstitutional infringements, the overwhelming majority of firearm owners in this state bend over backward to be sure they are in compliance. It isn't easy.

The laws are so convoluted and complex that one enthusiast site has even created a flowchart to assist owners (and law enforcement) in determining what is legal in this state. http://calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

Ironically, it is these law-abiding gun owners who are the target of SB 249. It certainly would not affect those who ignore the law; they would not pay any attention to it. It would be those who have taken the time to educate themselves and ensure their rifles are in compliance with the existing infringements that would become instant felons.

This is obviously poor legislation introduced by a senator whose ignorance knows no bounds.

:thumbsup:

bwiese
08-03-2012, 7:29 PM
Folks,
I agree that we need to bring in the National conservative Media into this.


Why do you want to harm us? Conservatives can't do crap in CA.

Their individual efforts are welcome - getting it identified as a 'party' thing will screw us further. Remember, CA GOP has zero weight in CA - can't even elect a state dogcatcher.

It will get all sortsa right-wing spin when we want this to be a legal/civil rights issue. And then the clueless will start bashing the governor at the absolute wrong time.

ir0nclash86
08-03-2012, 7:31 PM
Since most california gun owners arent on Calguns and dont keep up with whats going on, is there a way we can get almost all gun stores & shooting ranges in california to post up a large flyer about SB249? Mayne possibly see if gun manufacturer's are willing to post this up on their websites as well.

Hoop
08-03-2012, 7:35 PM
Since most california gun owners arent on Calguns and dont keep up with whats going on, is there a way we can get almost all gun stores & shooting ranges in california to post up a large flyer about SB249? Mayne possibly see if gun manufacturer's are willing to post this up on their websites as well.

Yeah everyone print fliers and take them to your local gun store. Calling/emailing gun makers and online retailers is another good one.

ProlificARProspect
08-03-2012, 7:46 PM
Why do you want to harm us? Conservatives can't do crap in CA.

Their individual efforts are welcome - getting it identified as a 'party' thing will screw us further. Remember, CA GOP has zero weight in CA - can't even elect a state dogcatcher.

It will get all sortsa right-wing spin when we want this to be a legal/civil rights issue. And then the clueless will start bashing the governor at the absolute wrong time.

I don't see a problem, we need ALL the help from all fronts liberal, conservative, independent, libertarian, etc..

This issue is a all hands on deck battle that effects all that love freedom. Why bust some one for their views? that's what the antis due. Democratic Liberals may run the show in Sacramento but the sleeping Giant of the will of the people of California will rise in any form to oppose and overthrow the current Sac kingdom if they continue to erode our civil rights.

curtisfong
08-03-2012, 7:56 PM
the sleeping Giant of the will of the people of California.

The only ones with any political clout are D's. Everybody here had better get used to figuring out how to sell gun rights to them, or we're going to continue to have to be constrained to the judicial system.

Thordo
08-03-2012, 8:15 PM
Why do you want to harm us? Conservatives can't do crap in CA.

Their individual efforts are welcome - getting it identified as a 'party' thing will screw us further. Remember, CA GOP has zero weight in CA - can't even elect a state dogcatcher.

It will get all sortsa right-wing spin when we want this to be a legal/civil rights issue. And then the clueless will start bashing the governor at the absolute wrong time.

I totally agree with Bill. The Hannities and Limbaughs input can make things much worst if they put some political "anti lefty" spin on the whole thing for ratings at our expense. This is a California fight that should be fought by Californians.

I'm on the phone almost daily with one of the board members of CAFR (California Association of Firearms Dealers) they are working very hard to fight this, as are we.

Today we discussed a VERY important point that hasn't had much chatter on the threads or in the testimony by our reps at the safety committee meeting.

SAFETY!!

If we are forced to permanently fix our magazines to the action of the rifle and the rifle jams, we have limited ability to make the firearm safe if we can't remove the magazine. The probability of a live round jammed in the action bursting because you have to pry a round out increases dramatically.

If anything. The bullet button is a safety valve. Yes, it is compliant as a "magazine lock", but is also the safest to make the gun safe if something goes wrong.

I urge everyone that writes a letter or email to their rep or the members of the appropriations committee to include VERY STRONG LANGUAGE (not cursing) that points out this VERY REAL, VERY DANGEROUS side effect of this law.

Thordo

acolytes
08-03-2012, 8:21 PM
I totally agree with Bill. The Hannities and Limbaughs input can make things much worst if they put some political "anti lefty" spin on the whole thing for ratings at our expense. This is a California fight that should be fought by Californians.

I'm on the phone almost daily with one of the board members of CAFR (California Association of Firearms Dealers) they are working very hard to fight this, as are we.

Today we discussed a VERY important point that hasn't had much chatter on the threads or in the testimony by our reps at the safety committee meeting.

SAFETY!!

If we are forced to permanently fix our magazines to the action of the rifle and the rifle jams, we have limited ability to make the firearm safe if we can't remove the magazine. The probability of a live round jammed in the action bursting because you have to pry a round out increases dramatically.

If anything. The bullet button is a safety valve. Yes, it is compliant as a "magazine lock", but is also the safest to make the gun safe if something goes wrong.

I urge everyone that writes a letter or email to their rep or the members of the appropriations committee to include VERY STRONG LANGUAGE (not cursing) that points out this VERY REAL, VERY DANGEROUS side effect of this law.
Thordo

Very interesting point. Never even crossed my mind.

adampolo13
08-03-2012, 8:28 PM
I'll have an action plan email out as soon as I can get it put together; am waiting on 1 more piece of info. I just got off the phone with Alan Gottlieb and I can assure you that he and CCRKBA are fully behind us on Stop SB 249.

-Brandon

Brandon,

Thank you for your work, we appreciate it!

AeroEngi
08-03-2012, 8:32 PM
I'm taking a whole bunch of fliers to Angeles Shooting Range on Sunday. Last time I was there, I didn't notice any stop SB249 fliers anywhere.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Rider1k
08-03-2012, 8:35 PM
is there a link to copy and print Stop 249? Ill take some around to my local fun stores and local range

kel-tec-innovations
08-03-2012, 8:41 PM
I emailed senators, reps, donated to NRA and CGF, write comments in the videos, dislike Yee's videos. What else can I do? besides find Yee and talk some sense into him

Thordo
08-03-2012, 8:47 PM
When we saw that Calguns would not have a presence at the last Vallejo Show. My wife and I printed about 50 fliers and made laminated fliers to give to the other vendors.

KEEP IT UP!!

Thordo

USMCM16A2
08-03-2012, 8:47 PM
Bill,


I strongly disagree with you, on my approaching the Conservative Media, we need a voice outside of California to help bring attention both legal and otherwise. Could you agree that we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting the California media to help our cause? We need numbers, we need to get people involved across the political spectrum.
We are fighting for our collective asses on this one, we need everyone, I mean everyone. This no longer a political Dem/Rep issue, this is as you have said is a Civil Rights issue. Then if I am wrong for approaching these folks, I will stay wrong. The gloves are off, I do not give one tinkers damn if people are worried about this being politicized. If it wakes up people and stirs up a fight in them, here or outside the state, and brings more money to the effort, or legal talent then I am accomplishing my goals. A2

ProlificARProspect
08-03-2012, 8:51 PM
Bill,


I strongly disagree with you, on my approaching the Conservative Media, we need a voice outside of California to help bring attention both legal and otherwise. Could you agree that we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting the California media to help our cause? We need numbers, we need to get people involved across the political spectrum.
We are fighting for our collective asses on this one, we need everyone, I mean everyone. This no longer a political Dem/Rep issue, this is as you have said is a Civil Rights issue. Then if I am wrong for approaching these folks, I will stay wrong. The gloves are off, I do not give one tinkers damn if people are worried about this being politicized. If it wakes up people and stirs up a fight in them, here or outside the state, and brings more money to the effort, or legal talent then I am accomplishing my goals. A2
+1!

Thordo
08-03-2012, 8:59 PM
is there a link to copy and print Stop 249? Ill take some around to my local fun stores and local range

Here you go!!

http://stopsb249.org/downloads-info-sheets/

Thordo

Farrier-1
08-03-2012, 9:23 PM
I'm taking a whole bunch of fliers to Angeles Sitting Range on Sunday. Last time I was there, I didn't notice any stop SB249 fliers anywhere.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I took flyers into a shop today that caters to AK/AR's. No posting anywhere! They were, " ya", " we know about it". I was heart broken. I laid the flyers down and left.

adampolo13
08-03-2012, 9:30 PM
^ thats the problem. I have a friend at work who has a few AR's to say the least. He said he's not worried. "The lobbiest groups will stop it...." There are too many people outside the calguns.net world that do not realize the fight we're in. Let's keep getting the word out!

AeroEngi
08-03-2012, 9:33 PM
I took flyers into a shop today that caters to AK/AR's. No posting anywhere! They were, " ya", " we know about it". I was heart broken. I laid the flyers down and left.

I'm hoping I don't get the same response from Angeles. I'll keep you guys posted after I go on Sunday.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

freonr22
08-03-2012, 9:35 PM
True, but several here do and they might just be helping Yee and his Staff to rewrite it so that it's harder to defeat or overturn.

Based on IP tracking this thread is very popular in Sacramento, specifically to ca.gov traffic. We KNOW, not suspect but know that this thread is being read and we'd be fools not to think that the problems with the bill and the 'they'd have to do this' type of posts are not being studied.

Because of this I would HEAVILY recommend that the 'helpful hints' about where the problem lie and what could help stop or fight SB249 in court stop.

Also let's try to focus on the bill itself not on Yee or his Staff, making it personal does not convey the best image for gun owners, let's not give them 'sound bites' to point to to show how 'dangerous' gun owners are.

To use a timeless warning...

http://www.executedtoday.com/images/A_Careless_Word.jpg


Just something to keep in mind

javalos
08-03-2012, 10:03 PM
Time for me to give to Calguns Foundation generously. Lets keep plugging away fellas.

mag360
08-03-2012, 10:19 PM
Hi Adam! Yee going to get those deer hunting rifles next?

To SCOTUS or bust.

vincewarde
08-04-2012, 1:04 AM
I'm a conservative and I agree 100% with the truth of reality expressed below. I don't like it - but that is how things are and ignoring it won't do any good. Hopefully any conservative figures that do get involved will approach it as a civil rights issue. We should encourage them in this direction.

It is critically important that we lay off Gov. Brown. If and when it reaches him we will need him to veto this monstrosity.

Another angle on this issue is that banning the bullet button could result in the CA AW ban being struck down on 2nd Amendment grounds. Here's how:

1) In Heller, guns in "common use" are protected
2) AR and AK pattern weapons are definitely in "common use"
3) The bullet button provides a way for CA residents to legally own these guns
4) Banning the bullet button eliminates the only way these guns can be legally owned and therefore banning it places the entire ban in danger.

We should consider opposing SB249 on these grounds - and if need be, suggest that the governor veto it using them as justification.

Why do you want to harm us? Conservatives can't do crap in CA.

Their individual efforts are welcome - getting it identified as a 'party' thing will screw us further. Remember, CA GOP has zero weight in CA - can't even elect a state dogcatcher.

It will get all sortsa right-wing spin when we want this to be a legal/civil rights issue. And then the clueless will start bashing the governor at the absolute wrong time.

abishai
08-04-2012, 6:45 PM
AP is now reporting it. Should be picked up nationally.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_21236219/calif-bill-seeks-tighten-assault-weapons-law

They will spin this out of control, and already are with their "loop hole" angle. We need to own the message on this.

"His spokesman, Adam Keigwin, said a gunsmith could make the change in a few minutes by welding over the mechanism."

Oh really? As has been said before, the safety angle is one of the strongest angles. Good luck finding a gunsmith who will expose himself to the liability of welding a magazine fixed so that guns can potentially blow up in the users hands. This just goes to exposing their emotional basis for this law, and we can and should be appealing to the media to show how much danger they are putting people in with their ignorance!

SocomM4
08-04-2012, 10:01 PM
-tv squawks- in other news, The number of cars broken into, boats sunk, and homes burgled continues to rise, authorities baffled.

Banaholic California
08-04-2012, 11:54 PM
AP is now reporting it. Should be picked up nationally.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_21236219/calif-bill-seeks-tighten-assault-weapons-law

They will spin this out of control, and already are with their "loop hole" angle. We need to own the message on this.



Oh really? As has been said before, the safety angle is one of the strongest angles. Good luck finding a gunsmith who will expose himself to the liability of welding a magazine fixed so that guns can potentially blow up in the users hands. This just goes to exposing their emotional basis for this law, and we can and should be appealing to the media to show how much danger they are putting people in with their ignorance!

From the article

"SACRAMENTO, Calif.—Legislation that has the backing of California's attorney general would close a loophole in the nation's toughest assault weapons law, making it more difficult for guns to be swiftly reloaded with high-capacity magazines. "


How would this make it harder to reload with high capacity magazines. Isn't it already a felony to possess post ban mags greater than 10? Why would someone follow this law if they don't follow the high cap mag law?

sharxbyte
08-05-2012, 12:26 AM
AP is now reporting it. Should be picked up nationally.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_21236219/calif-bill-seeks-tighten-assault-weapons-law

They will spin this out of control, and already are with their "loop hole" angle. We need to own the message on this.



Oh really? As has been said before, the safety angle is one of the strongest angles. Good luck finding a gunsmith who will expose himself to the liability of welding a magazine fixed so that guns can potentially blow up in the users hands. This just goes to exposing their emotional basis for this law, and we can and should be appealing to the media to show how much danger they are putting people in with their ignorance!

not to mention potentially damaging the structural integrity of the receiver. You have to have argon to weld aluminium without it corroding, and even if the BB's are steel, that's exposing the receiver to extreme heat, potentially warping the receiver, the magazine, or both. Add to that the problems of safely un-jamming an AR with a fixed magazine, magazines eventually wear-and-tearing, and needing parts replaced...

jj805
08-05-2012, 12:50 AM
not to mention potentially damaging the structural integrity of the receiver. You have to have argon to weld aluminium without it corroding, and even if the BB's are steel, that's exposing the receiver to extreme heat, potentially warping the receiver, the magazine, or both. Add to that the problems of safely un-jamming an AR with a fixed magazine, magazines eventually wear-and-tearing, and needing parts replaced...

You also cannot weld aluminium and steel. their melting points are too far apart. Also, what are you going to use as a filler metal.

Librarian
08-05-2012, 1:17 AM
Isn't it already a felony to possess post ban mags greater than 10?

No.

See the magazine qs link, below.

gixxnrocket
08-05-2012, 5:36 AM
Ok, I can now say I have first hand experience with a dangerous jam. Luckily it wasn't my rifle =) The rifle was an AR-15 style in conjunction with some older 10 round magazines. All the equipment was function properly and there were no indications of impending failure.

A few rounds downrange and then crunch. Failure to extract. Ejection port down, I pulled the charge handle and the bolt wouldnt move!

(I immediatly thought of SB249, so I figured I woud try and clear the weapon as if I were not able to remove the magazine.)

I rotated the ejection port up and what I saw was a mess. There was a spent case still partially chambered and dented pretty good angled up and out towards the ejection port. The next live round was fed to the bottom, left of the feed ramp. And to top it off the bolt was seized.

For the Yee bunch that may be reading this. That means I could not hinge the barrel on lower because the bolt was halfway inside the buffer tube. Look at a diagram of the rifle. This is the same as a locked deadbolt on your house door.

With out the ability to remove the magazine, clearing this jam would've been extremely dangerous. THIS IS THE REASON THE BULLETBUTTON IS COMPLIANT WITH A FIXED MAGAZINE!

Wiz-of-Awd
08-05-2012, 8:31 AM
Ok, I can now say I have first hand experience with a dangerous jam. Luckily it wasn't my rifle =) The rifle was an AR-15 style in conjunction with some older 10 round magazines. All the equipment was function properly and there were no indications of impending failure.

A few rounds downrange and then crunch. Failure to extract. Ejection port down, I pulled the charge handle and the bolt wouldnt move!

(I immediatly thought of SB249, so I figured I woud try and clear the weapon as if I were not able to remove the magazine.)

I rotated the ejection port up and what I saw was a mess. There was a spent case still partially chambered and dented pretty good angled up and out towards the ejection port. The next live round was fed to the bottom, left of the feed ramp. And to top it off the bolt was seized.

For the Yee bunch that may be reading this. That means I could not hinge the barrel on lower because the bolt was halfway inside the buffer tube. Look at a diagram of the rifle. This is the same as a locked deadbolt on your house door.

With out the ability to remove the magazine, clearing this jam would've been extremely dangerous. THIS IS THE REASON THE BULLETBUTTON IS COMPLIANT WITH A FIXED MAGAZINE!

So...

"In the news today, a local man is seriously injured at a community shooting range when trying to clear a jam in his semi automatic rifle. Apparently, the man was unable to clear the jam as intended by the manufacturer of the rifle, as it had been modified from its factory design and configuration, rendering it unsafe in this routine clearing of a malfunction.

In a statement made by the man's Attorney, "This was a terrible accident, but one that could have been avoided. While we are not holding the gun range or the manufacturer of the rifle at fault, it is our understanding that the modifications made to the rifle - fixing the magazine in place, thereby making it non-removable - were the primary cause to it's unsafe condition. These modifications are state mandated requirements for legally owning this rifle, so we will address this issue with the State of California in a more appropriate venue."

My point of course being, have we addressed with the GOV - the potential for lawsuits coming their way?

A.W.D.

TimRB
08-05-2012, 8:46 AM
I think the safety argument is weak. In the first place, the people in favor of SB249 don't care at all if "assault weapon" shooters get hurt. Second, it is easy for them to argue that if your rifle jams in some way that you cannot safely clear it, you should call in a qualified gunsmith.

Tim

Farrier-1
08-05-2012, 8:51 AM
I totally agree with Bill. The Hannities and Limbaughs input can make things much worst if they put some political "anti lefty" spin on the whole thing for ratings at our expense. This is a California fight that should be fought by Californians.

I'm on the phone almost daily with one of the board members of CAFR (California Association of Firearms Dealers) they are working very hard to fight this, as are we.

Today we discussed a VERY important point that hasn't had much chatter on the threads or in the testimony by our reps at the safety committee meeting.

SAFETY!!

If we are forced to permanently fix our magazines to the action of the rifle and the rifle jams, we have limited ability to make the firearm safe if we can't remove the magazine. The probability of a live round jammed in the action bursting because you have to pry a round out increases dramatically.

If anything. The bullet button is a safety valve. Yes, it is compliant as a "magazine lock", but is also the safest to make the gun safe if something goes wrong.

I urge everyone that writes a letter or email to their rep or the members of the appropriations committee to include VERY STRONG LANGUAGE (not cursing) that points out this VERY REAL, VERY DANGEROUS side effect of this law.

Thordo

I seriously doubt they have any concern over our own personal safety? They'd laugh if an AR target shooter accidentally hurt him/herself. Just more ammo for them to use to explain why AR's are dangerous.

cdtx2001
08-05-2012, 9:15 AM
Here's my action plan:

STFU and let the pros handle it. While Kes and crew are on it, I'll be calling all my representatives again and again voice my opposition. That is all.

abishai
08-05-2012, 10:49 AM
I seriously doubt they have any concern over our own personal safety? They'd laugh if an AR target shooter accidentally hurt him/herself. Just more ammo for them to use to explain why AR's are dangerous.

Of course, but that's not the point. The point is that we should be arguing to the Gov that this law is cost-prohibitive and to the Atty Gen that the paperwork and litigation just isn't worth the political gains among their base. Do they really want to be in court for the next 5 years over this minor re-definition of a law that has resulted in ZERO crimes by BB rifles in CA?

javalos
08-05-2012, 10:53 AM
Of course, but that's not the point. The point is that we should be arguing to the Gov that this law is cost-prohibitive and to the Atty Gen that the paperwork and litigation just isn't worth the political gains among their base. Do they really want to be in court for the next 5 years over this minor re-definition of a law that has resulted in ZERO crimes by BB rifles in CA?
The point I have heard yet.

javalos
08-05-2012, 10:59 AM
Of course, but that's not the point. The point is that we should be arguing to the Gov that this law is cost-prohibitive and to the Atty Gen that the paperwork and litigation just isn't worth the political gains among their base. Do they really want to be in court for the next 5 years over this minor re-definition of a law that has resulted in ZERO crimes by BB rifles in CA?

Love it, unsafe=litigation

Wiz-of-Awd
08-05-2012, 11:19 AM
Of course, but that's not the point. The point is that we should be arguing to the Gov that this law is cost-prohibitive and to the Atty Gen that the paperwork and litigation just isn't worth the political gains among their base. Do they really want to be in court for the next 5 years over this minor re-definition of a law that has resulted in ZERO crimes by BB rifles in CA?

Exactly. I've said it before - appeal to their sense of greed and corruption. In this case of course, their sense of not costing themselves money.

A.W.D.

RMikeL
08-05-2012, 12:10 PM
If anything. The bullet button is a safety valve.

Maybe SB249 was inevitable by calling it a "bullet button"...had it been called a "safety release" it would have been less threatening and more difficult to characterize as a "loophole."

Mike

Librarian
08-05-2012, 12:15 PM
Of course, but that's not the point. The point is that we should be arguing to the Gov that this law is cost-prohibitive and to the Atty Gen that the paperwork and litigation just isn't worth the political gains among their base. Do they really want to be in court for the next 5 years over this minor re-definition of a law that has resulted in ZERO crimes by BB rifles in CA?

Likely true.

Unfortunately, (1) they'll be spending OUR money, not their own, and (2) they do the political calculations differently.

SocomM4
08-05-2012, 12:16 PM
Nobody gives 2 ****s about the ramblings on some Internet forum. Get up, make a sign, and drive to Sacramento . That's what will get news attention. Beeching and moaning on calguns wont help.

Get out and use your other rights , that's why they're in there. This lazy attitude of throwing money at it is ridiculous. People need to realize that your doing your children a HUGE disservice by sitting around complaining. Don't you think the next generation will ask, what WE did to stop this? What will Your answer be?

If anyone wants to organize a mass protest, I'm all in.

QQQ
08-05-2012, 1:35 PM
Of course, but that's not the point. The point is that we should be arguing to the Gov that this law is cost-prohibitive and to the Atty Gen that the paperwork and litigation just isn't worth the political gains among their base. Do they really want to be in court for the next 5 years over this minor re-definition of a law that has resulted in ZERO crimes by BB rifles in CA?

Most Californians are wasting their time by writing to their elected representatives. The same goes for governor Jerry Long-Gun-Registration Brown. It's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a thimble.

ProlificARProspect
08-05-2012, 1:39 PM
Nobody gives 2 ****s about the ramblings on some Internet forum. Get up, make a sign, and drive to Sacramento . That's what will get news attention. Beeching and moaning on calguns wont help.

Get out and use your other rights , that's why they're in there. This lazy attitude of throwing money at it is ridiculous. People need to realize that your doing your children a HUGE disservice by sitting around complaining. Don't you think the next generation will ask, what WE did to stop this? What will Your answer be?

If anyone wants to organize a mass protest, I'm all in.

We can charter a few buses from SoCal and Central Cal and meet at the capital steps. We need to mobilize and show our strength in mass physical numbers with a coordinate mass protest.

Kinda sad that places like Egypt, Seria, Libya they protest even if means losing
Life or limb. I see California ready to explode Financially and socially with unemployment, weak economy, over taxation, Sacramento politicians doing what ever they want...

Look how oppressive our government has become, take a look at how Californians can't even protest without getting a beat down or peppered sprayed for asserting thief 1st amendment right, ex. Anaheim Police shooting protest and UC Davis beat down.

Just ironic that we(USA) try to teach the world to accept democracy and freedom yet we don't have it here.

tpc13
08-05-2012, 2:04 PM
Are u going to organize a protest?

ProlificARProspect
08-05-2012, 2:35 PM
Are u going to organize a protest?


Are u Pro 2nd and willing to go?

http://capitolmuseum.ca.gov/detail.aspx?content2=2298&content3=1692

Link to get in contact with CHP for a State Capital protest permit.


http://www.cityofsacramento.org/parksandrecreation/pdf/se08-event_pguide.pdf

Dragon911
08-05-2012, 3:01 PM
Instead of a protest- how about a petiton drive? Door to door in your own neighborhoods?

We have the petition available to sign in Sac at 3479 Orange Grove Ave. North Highlands, CA 95660 (9AM to 10PM- 7days a week)

abishai
08-05-2012, 4:29 PM
Most Californians are wasting their time by writing to their elected representatives. The same goes for governor Jerry Long-Gun-Registration Brown. It's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a thimble.

This is unfortunately true. These elitists don't respond to the people, they respond to the public narrative as portrayed by the media. That's all they pay attention to because they are self ingratiating narcissists. Until we own the message in the media, all that they need to do is keep repeating the words "loop hole" and "assault weapons" to govern by fear. This will reach a fever pitch to which our efforts will fall on deaf ears.*

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_21237711

UNLESS we own the message in the media. Make it about cost, civil rights, legal precedent, and public safety. Where's our Press Release?

ptoguy2002
08-05-2012, 4:52 PM
Most Californians are wasting their time by writing to their elected representatives. The same goes for governor Jerry Long-Gun-Registration Brown. It's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a thimble.

WRONG
You are wrong on this. The key is to have LOTS of people do it. When lots of people do it, the numbers become hard to ignore.
Sure when you have a dozen or a few dozen or a hundred, it probably doesn't make a difference. But when the phone lines are tied up for all 8 hours during the business day, and when CGF DELIVERS thousands of printed out hard copies from your online letters, and they are flooded with opposition, they will take note, as the numbers are then impossible to ignore.
If everybody did it, they will notice.
The problem is jack a**'s like you mister QQQ that are pessimists about everything, and spread poison to everybody else.
Think about, stop and think: IF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD CALLED, EMAILED, AND SENT THE LETTERS, OUR VOICE WILL BE HEARD.

abishai
08-05-2012, 5:27 PM
Most Californians are wasting their time by writing to their elected representatives. The same goes for governor Jerry Long-Gun-Registration Brown. It's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a thimble.

WRONG
You are wrong on this. The key is to have LOTS of people do it. When lots of people do it, the numbers become hard to ignore.
Sure when you have a dozen or a few dozen or a hundred, it probably doesn't make a difference. But when the phone lines are tied up for all 8 hours during the business day, and when CGF DELIVERS thousands of printed out hard copies from your online letters, and they are flooded with opposition, they will take note, as the numbers are then impossible to ignore.
If everybody did it, they will notice.
The problem is jack a**'s like you mister QQQ that are pessimists about everything, and spread poison to everybody else.
Think about, stop and think: IF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD CALLED, EMAILED, AND SENT THE LETTERS, OUR VOICE WILL BE HEARD.

Indeed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm doing all of this exhaustively. But for every voice of ours, there's an opposite voice among the anti-gunners now that this is being publicized in the media. As it is the US Senate is trying to reinstitute the AW ban altogether. I'm saying that I hope that the action plan (tomorrow?) includes some heavy duty media and lobbying so that if we can get to critical mass with with our letters, calls, and petitions that we also have a vehicle/insurance policy to ensure that these guys get portrayed in the media as the tyrannical Statists they are if they try to ignore us. Otherwise, who will hold them accountable should they decide to piss on us?

Rob7.62
08-05-2012, 5:38 PM
Strength in numbers we ALL need to call or write if you give up and just lay down they will just keep cramming more gun control down our throughts till all we have is black powder guns. I myself will call and write. A donation to Cal Guns is always good too.

curtisfong
08-05-2012, 6:48 PM
I would love to ask our various congresscum what "number" they would consider worth listening to.

I agree that calling/faxing/mailing is a good thing. But we've all seen our legislators blatantly ignore missives from anybody they disagree with.

Thordo
08-05-2012, 6:57 PM
Ok, I can now say I have first hand experience with a dangerous jam. Luckily it wasn't my rifle =) The rifle was an AR-15 style in conjunction with some older 10 round magazines. All the equipment was function properly and there were no indications of impending failure.

A few rounds downrange and then crunch. Failure to extract. Ejection port down, I pulled the charge handle and the bolt wouldnt move!

(I immediatly thought of SB249, so I figured I woud try and clear the weapon as if I were not able to remove the magazine.)

I rotated the ejection port up and what I saw was a mess. There was a spent case still partially chambered and dented pretty good angled up and out towards the ejection port. The next live round was fed to the bottom, left of the feed ramp. And to top it off the bolt was seized.

For the Yee bunch that may be reading this. That means I could not hinge the barrel on lower because the bolt was halfway inside the buffer tube. Look at a diagram of the rifle. This is the same as a locked deadbolt on your house door.

With out the ability to remove the magazine, clearing this jam would've been extremely dangerous. THIS IS THE REASON THE BULLETBUTTON IS COMPLIANT WITH A FIXED MAGAZINE!

Exactly my point. We need to hone and polish the safety argument. Just take a look at any of your firearms REQUIRED SAFETY MANUALS. The first thing it'll say to do if there's a malfunction is to make the firearm safe by REMOVING THE MAGAZINE before attempting to clear the action.

Thordo

Thordo
08-05-2012, 7:11 PM
I seriously doubt they have any concern over our own personal safety? They'd laugh if an AR target shooter accidentally hurt him/herself. Just more ammo for them to use to explain why AR's are dangerous.

REALLY?? You have 500000+ BB firearms in the state on top of the probably 2000000 other types of firearms that ALL need to be cleared if they have a malfunction. If the state forces the 500000+ BB firearms to have the mag fixed in place, that's 500000+ potential lawsuits against the state by anyone who may be injured or killed because they were denied the ability to simply make the firearm safe.

That is not a weak argument, and if our overlords would be glad that someone gets hurt or killed as as result of a malfunction, that makes them no better than the guy in Colorado.

Thordo

freonr22
08-05-2012, 7:11 PM
WRONG
You are wrong on this. The key is to have LOTS of people do it. When lots of people do it, the numbers become hard to ignore.
Sure when you have a dozen or a few dozen or a hundred, it probably doesn't make a difference. But when the phone lines are tied up for all 8 hours during the business day, and when CGF DELIVERS thousands of printed out hard copies from your online letters, and they are flooded with opposition, they will take note, as the numbers are then impossible to ignore.
If everybody did it, they will notice.
The problem is jack a**'s like you mister QQQ that are pessimists about everything, and spread poison to everybody else.
Think about, stop and think: IF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD CALLED, EMAILED, AND SENT THE LETTERS, OUR VOICE WILL BE HEARD.
Is that what happened with ab962?

Thordo
08-05-2012, 7:15 PM
I think the safety argument is weak. In the first place, the people in favor of SB249 don't care at all if "assault weapon" shooters get hurt. Second, it is easy for them to argue that if your rifle jams in some way that you cannot safely clear it, you should call in a qualified gunsmith.

Tim

What is the matter with you??

Thordo

ahcshon
08-05-2012, 7:43 PM
Nobody gives 2 ****s about the ramblings on some Internet forum. Get up, make a sign, and drive to Sacramento . That's what will get news attention. Beeching and moaning on calguns wont help.

Get out and use your other rights , that's why they're in there. This lazy attitude of throwing money at it is ridiculous. People need to realize that your doing your children a HUGE disservice by sitting around complaining. Don't you think the next generation will ask, what WE did to stop this? What will Your answer be?

If anyone wants to organize a mass protest, I'm all in.

Best idea yet.

TimRB
08-05-2012, 8:01 PM
What is the matter with you??

Well, nothing that I know of.

You can't possibly think that someone could successfully sue the state of California because his rifle jammed and he couldn't safely clear it. There are several obvious defenses:

1) While shooting, your safety is your responsibility, not the State's. If you think your gun is unsafe for any reason, you should not shoot it.
2) If your gun jams you can clear it by disassembling it.
3) If you can't do that, you should call a gunsmith.

Please understand--I am on your side, all the way. I just think the safety argument is weak and should not be counted on to make much difference.

Tim

freonr22
08-05-2012, 8:09 PM
Well, nothing that I know of.

You can't possibly think that someone could successfully sue the state of California because his rifle jammed and he couldn't safely clear it. There are several obvious defenses:

1) While shooting, your safety is your responsibility, not the State's. If you think your gun is unsafe for any reason, you should not shoot it.
2) If your gun jams you can clear it by disassembling it.
3) If you can't do that, you should call a gunsmith.

Please understand--I am on your side, all the way. I just think the safety argument is weak and should not be counted on to make much difference.

Tim

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=604626

jonzer77
08-05-2012, 8:28 PM
Well, nothing that I know of.

You can't possibly think that someone could successfully sue the state of California because his rifle jammed and he couldn't safely clear it. There are several obvious defenses:

1) While shooting, your safety is your responsibility, not the State's. If you think your gun is unsafe for any reason, you should not shoot it.
2) If your gun jams you can clear it by disassembling it.
3) If you can't do that, you should call a gunsmith.

Please understand--I am on your side, all the way. I just think the safety argument is weak and should not be counted on to make much difference.

Tim

If you can't clear the gun because it is jammed then you cannot take it to a gunsmith. For one, it's breaking the law transporting a loaded firearm but I can't think of a single gunsmith that will want you bringing a loaded and jammed firearm in their shop. What if it goes off and fires while you are on your way to the gunsmith?

Thordo
08-05-2012, 8:49 PM
If you can't clear the gun because it is jammed then you cannot take it to a gunsmith. For one, it's breaking the law transporting a loaded firearm but I can't think of a single gunsmith that will want you bringing a loaded and jammed firearm in their shop. What if it goes off and fires while you are on your way to the gunsmith?

And also, you can't disassemble it if you can't take the mag out.

Thordo
08-05-2012, 8:57 PM
Well, nothing that I know of.

You can't possibly think that someone could successfully sue the state of California because his rifle jammed and he couldn't safely clear it. There are several obvious defenses:

1) While shooting, your safety is your responsibility, not the State's. If you think your gun is unsafe for any reason, you should not shoot it.
2) If your gun jams you can clear it by disassembling it.
3) If you can't do that, you should call a gunsmith.

Please understand--I am on your side, all the way. I just think the safety argument is weak and should not be counted on to make much difference.

Tim

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me if you think it's a strong argument or not. It's still relevant and needs to be explored and I'm taking it on.

If you're on my side, then help me. I just started this thread asking for help. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=604626

Thordo

Dark Paladin
08-05-2012, 10:21 PM
If everybody did it, they will notice.
The problem is jack a**'s like you mister QQQ that are pessimists about everything, and spread poison to everybody else.
Think about, stop and think: IF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD CALLED, EMAILED, AND SENT THE LETTERS, OUR VOICE WILL BE HEARD.

This.

Ladies and gents, while it may seem like futile in ones and twos. . . its not the message content that counts, its the message quantity.

I cannot stress enough the importance of reaching out to the legislators. We will be organizing call/mail/fax campaigns, and when we do, we need EVERYONE'S help. You, your friends, family, neighbors, co-workers, high school/college buddies. . . EVERYONE.

That is the only way to make our voices heard. While CGF prepares for their coming battles, WE ARE THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE.

No more unfruitful speculations. We can sit here postulate all day and night and it won't make a lick of difference. Instead, we can all do something productive to fight this.

Start mentally going over what you want to say on the phone to the aides in the office. Be polite, respectful, but also short and to the point. Start rough drafts on letters to be sent to their offices. Again, POLITE, RESPECTFUL, SHORT AND TO THE POINT. If you have the ability to fax, start sending that too.

If you are really feeling passionate about this issue, this is where we draw the line. Make our voices heard, RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW.

Mendo223
08-05-2012, 11:26 PM
ive told every gun owning friend about this....and signed petitions and several gun shops, sent emails, signed online petitions, posted comments and responses to twitter....


it really feels hopeless...that a total canhead like adam keigwin is responsible for this, he is simply the most arrogant POS i have ever encountered.

i would like to join a protest at the state capitol or something similar..or maybe at the senators office. we need to make them realize THAT THIS BILL WILL NOT SOLVE CRIME, IT WILL SIMPLY CAUSE LAW ABIDING CITIZENS TO BE SUBJECT TO FELONY PROSECUTION..


and in all honestly...I WILL NEVER HAVE MY BB "welded" OR ANY SUCH NONSENSE......from my cold dead hands. drossing several lowers and an AK this month just out of spite.....thank god i have 20 acres of property in a pro-gun county to bury these toys just in case of SHTF...good luck finding them LEO.

Dark Paladin
08-05-2012, 11:44 PM
ive told every gun owning friend about this....and signed petitions and several gun shops, sent emails, signed online petitions, posted comments and responses to twitter....

Just doing it once is not enough.

You have to keep doing it. Over and over and over and over and over until this bill is defeated.

Doing it once gives them the opportunity to ignore us. 50,000 of us sending letters, calling offices, and transmitting faxes on a daily basis changes this to a whole new ballgame.

Santa Cruz Arms
08-05-2012, 11:46 PM
I thought I read it somewhere already but could not find the reference..

Is the hearing on this bill open to the public?
Are public comments allowed?

If either of the above are true, EVERY CA gun owner should be at that hearing!

Lacunacraft
08-05-2012, 11:54 PM
Also, if you haven't signed the physical paper petition, DO SO. I signed at my local gun store and i hope other stores are also doing the same. The store i singed at was Bullseye in Castro Valley BTW. Cool little shop btw

Librarian
08-05-2012, 11:59 PM
I thought I read it somewhere already but could not find the reference..

Is the hearing on this bill open to the public?
Are public comments allowed?

If either of the above are true, EVERY CA gun owner should be at that hearing!

The hearing is open to the public, but generally comments are received only from invited speakers.

I'm guessing the right-hand picture on this page - http://apro.assembly.ca.gov/ - is the hearing room for Appropriations, 2114. Haven't been there.

Santa Cruz Arms
08-06-2012, 12:06 AM
The hearing is open to the public, but generally comments are received only from invited speakers.

I'm guessing the right-hand picture on this page - http://apro.assembly.ca.gov/ - is the hearing room for Appropriations, 2114. Haven't been there.

Might be a little "cozy", but it I don't see why we can't cram it full.. at least to maximum capacity for fire safety. :)

Seriously, we should see follow CGF guidance on this, but there is no excuse, at a minimum, for gun owners in the local area to BE AT THAT HEARING. Better yet if we have some caravans of people from all over the state taking a road trip up for this. Even if we can not make comments, sheer numbers alone make a statement itself.

Steve

battleship
08-06-2012, 12:09 AM
Yee is saying only one thing on that recent news report, and that is we are all killers, or at least anyone who has this type of rifle.
I see nothing more than a brown nosed politician with his eye on promoting his career.

Mendo223
08-06-2012, 1:08 AM
where is the public meeting? i will show up in suit and tie, looking the total opposite of what these anti gunnies think are typical gun owners..

i just want to ask WHY they are implementing something that makes LAW ABIDING CITIZENS criminals...its maddening to think i could become a felon just because my AR15 has a bullet button.

Rekrab
08-06-2012, 3:01 AM
I emailed senators, reps, donated to NRA and CGF, write comments in the videos, dislike Yee's videos. What else can I do? besides find Yee and talk some sense into him

Actions like these are our strongest asset. Social media and the internet are the new soap box. While it may feel like you're a drop in the ocean, enough drops and salt water gets a lot less salty.

OK, imperfect metaphor, but my point stands!

I'd also like to say, don't underestimate the power of a phone call.

Thordo
08-06-2012, 6:53 AM
The hearing is open to the public, but generally comments are received only from invited speakers.

I'm guessing the right-hand picture on this page - http://apro.assembly.ca.gov/ - is the hearing room for Appropriations, 2114. Haven't been there.

How does one get invited to speak?

thordo

dawgcasa
08-06-2012, 7:02 AM
And also, you can't disassemble it if you can't take the mag out.

Sorry to be ignorant, but don't current own an AR style rifle, so if the mag is truely permanently affixed how do you load it when the rifle isn't designed to be loaded thru other means ... Via the open breach? That sounds tricky given the feed mechanism isn't designed for that.

OleCuss
08-06-2012, 7:08 AM
How does one get invited to speak?

thordo

Be buds with a relevant committee member or be a spokesperson for an organization politically important to a relevant committee member in a manner which is at least sort of related.

But realistically, I doubt that the invited speakers really change any minds. You have to have them there for a variety of reasons, but it is the lobbyists and other legislators - and the phone calls in opposition that are really going to count.

Edit: Oh, and once the text of SB249 is finalized I may just take a day off and go to Sacramento. I won't waste my time on a protest but instead consider going to multiple offices of the various legislators and ask to talk to the relevant legislator or staff. Won't do this unless I've done enough study on the relevant law and either the NRA or CRPA lobbyist says it is going to be beneficial.

jimezdoesit
08-06-2012, 9:37 AM
It's nice to see another SB249 action plan discussion that is on target! Brandon, thanks for all your help! I have notified Jerry Brown and sent letters. I will circle back round again to the appropriations committee contacts.

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 9:56 AM
I have notified Jerry Brown and sent letters. I will circle back round again to the appropriations committee contacts.

This right here is what everyone needs to be doing. Call/mail/fax legislator offices regularly and often!

mag360
08-06-2012, 10:01 AM
Think im going to make a couple signs... one says Leland Yee and Adam Keigwin...TOOLS. the other deer hunting rifles? Ban those too.

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 10:07 AM
Think im going to make a couple signs... one says Leland Yee and Adam Keigwin...TOOLS. the other deer hunting rifles? Ban those too.

Guys/gals, let's keep this classy. No need for personal insults or attacks, however much it may seem like it will make us feel better. It only gives the opposite side fuel to use against us. The complicit media will then happily use your signs and paint all of us gunowners in the worst possible light. DON'T FALL FOR THEIR TACTIC!

Calling/mailing/faxing the legislators' offices is the best thing we can do right now.

mag360
08-06-2012, 10:27 AM
well I live in downtown sac, somebody give me some sign idea's or pdf files and I'll get them printed and my girlfriend and I will stand there dressed real nice for a couple hours. I have today off work and friday.

Wherryj
08-06-2012, 10:37 AM
I totally agree with Bill. The Hannities and Limbaughs input can make things much worst if they put some political "anti lefty" spin on the whole thing for ratings at our expense. This is a California fight that should be fought by Californians.

I'm on the phone almost daily with one of the board members of CAFR (California Association of Firearms Dealers) they are working very hard to fight this, as are we.

Today we discussed a VERY important point that hasn't had much chatter on the threads or in the testimony by our reps at the safety committee meeting.

SAFETY!!

If we are forced to permanently fix our magazines to the action of the rifle and the rifle jams, we have limited ability to make the firearm safe if we can't remove the magazine. The probability of a live round jammed in the action bursting because you have to pry a round out increases dramatically.

If anything. The bullet button is a safety valve. Yes, it is compliant as a "magazine lock", but is also the safest to make the gun safe if something goes wrong.

I urge everyone that writes a letter or email to their rep or the members of the appropriations committee to include VERY STRONG LANGUAGE (not cursing) that points out this VERY REAL, VERY DANGEROUS side effect of this law.

Thordo

How do we hold liable the author of a bill that is taking a known safe product and mandating that it become unsafe? There MUST be a way, even though our politicians have written themselves significant waivers from liability for their actions.

Wherryj
08-06-2012, 10:39 AM
Brandon,

Thank you for your work, we appreciate it!

Thank you Brandon. Any way to add "SAF" and "NRA" to that list?

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 10:47 AM
How do we hold liable the author of a bill that is taking a known safe product and mandating that it become unsafe? There MUST be a way, even though our politicians have written themselves significant waivers from liability for their actions.

By voting him/her out of office. Unless you can gather enough signatures to force a recall, but those are usually not very successful short of somebody finding a dead body in their closet. Our time and resources are better spent on phones/letters/faxes and educating voters on the shenanigans their "representative" is pulling.

Interfan
08-06-2012, 10:55 AM
Guys/gals, let's keep this classy. No need for personal insults or attacks, however much it may seem like it will make us feel better. It only gives the opposite side fuel to use against us. The complicit media will then happily use your signs and paint all of us gunowners in the worst possible light. DON'T FALL FOR THEIR TACTIC!

Calling/mailing/faxing the legislators' offices is the best thing we can do right now.

The media wants to paint gun owners as rednecks or just uneducated militia types. If you go to the committee hearings, dress professionally, if you have a mullet or crazy facial hair, cut it. Don't heckle the speakers, and do not hold up signs that insult any committee members or their staff. If you do this, you are doing exactly what "they" want you to do.

Be polite, be professional and if you speak; be concise and focused on "real" points like the fact that this bill makes criminals out of many veterans, law enforcement officers, and law abiding citizens. If you must hold signs, make signs that are focused on civil rights and rights protected by the US Constitution.

The bottom line is that most of the Dems have already made up their minds and don't care about the US Constitution. They need to be seen as not caring about fundamental rights and not respecting the basis for the laws of the land. That is not done through name calling, but by being professional. It is easy for them and for the press to lampoon "bubba" or Rex Kwon Do; so any valid points made are lost in the presentation. It is much harder for them to ridicule someone who shows up on equal footing as their opponent.

Wherryj
08-06-2012, 11:04 AM
I'm a conservative and I agree 100% with the truth of reality expressed below. I don't like it - but that is how things are and ignoring it won't do any good. Hopefully any conservative figures that do get involved will approach it as a civil rights issue. We should encourage them in this direction.

It is critically important that we lay off Gov. Brown. If and when it reaches him we will need him to veto this monstrosity.

Another angle on this issue is that banning the bullet button could result in the CA AW ban being struck down on 2nd Amendment grounds. Here's how:

1) In Heller, guns in "common use" are protected
2) AR and AK pattern weapons are definitely in "common use"
3) The bullet button provides a way for CA residents to legally own these guns
4) Banning the bullet button eliminates the only way these guns can be legally owned and therefore banning it places the entire ban in danger.

We should consider opposing SB249 on these grounds - and if need be, suggest that the governor veto it using them as justification.

Are there any channels through which we can contact the Governor and inform him about the safety concerns related to inability to remove a magazine in the event of a misfire, etc.?

Having the Governor "up to speed" with respect to the safety issues couldn't hurt.

jimezdoesit
08-06-2012, 12:19 PM
Adam Keigwin just posted this from Twitter: http://sd08.senate.ca.gov/news/2012-08-06-california-assault-weapon-bill-gains-strength

adampolo13
08-06-2012, 12:22 PM
Wow, spreading FUD about the WI shooting. No riffle used, just handguns. What a jerk!

AeroEngi
08-06-2012, 12:24 PM
Adam Keigwin just posted this from Twitter: http://sd08.senate.ca.gov/news/2012-08-06-california-assault-weapon-bill-gains-strength

BS one-sided article.

BlackRifleFan
08-06-2012, 12:37 PM
Good luck guys. Best way to lose is to lose trying. If I lived in CA, I would be there right by your side in Sacramento.

Fiveohmike
08-06-2012, 12:41 PM
Good luck guys. Best way to lose is to lose trying. If I lived in CA, I would be there right by your side in Sacramento.

Email our representatives! Sign the petition ect! Please :)

adampolo13
08-06-2012, 12:42 PM
Thank you Brandon. Any way to add "SAF" and "NRA" to that list?

Thank you to ALL who stand up for the Bill of Rights, especially the 2A!

Fiveohmike
08-06-2012, 12:50 PM
Well I just joined twitter to hash tag the **** out of this. Hope this helps as well.

kjq
08-06-2012, 12:51 PM
I am relatively new to the group, but rest assured, I am not one of the lazy arm chair complainers. I've done several hours of research already this morning and have made several phone calls to politicians. I agree that a high price needs presented to the likes of Yee and DeLeon. KPIX Channel 5 started this and needs to pay as well.

Why isn't NRA and CRPA buying television time? Outside our group, this attack is a public secret. The truth has not been revealed through the media.

I refuse to justify owning a gun. Arguing with a liberal is a total waste of time and I won't sing to the choir. Quite frankly, I am pissed off. Reason and logic has done no good. I will not surrender my gun. Only a fool would try to take it.

abishai
08-06-2012, 12:56 PM
Good luck guys. Best way to lose is to lose trying. If I lived in CA, I would be there right by your side in Sacramento.

The best thing you can do is still to write and call your State Reps and Senators, as well as the NRA and NAGR. Stop the cancer before it spreads and encourage your Reps not to allow this to spread, and to lend us their lobbying efforts to put national pressure on CA Reps to vote NO!!! This needs to be a national civil rights argument, not a "silly Californians" argument, or soon it will be at your doorstep, too.

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 1:16 PM
The best thing you can do is still to write and call your State Reps and Senators, as well as the NRA and NAGR. Stop the cancer before it spreads and encourage your Reps not to allow this to spread, and to lend us their lobbying efforts to put national pressure on CA Reps to vote NO!!! This needs to be a national civil rights argument, not a "silly Californians" argument, or soon it will be at your doorstep, too.

Actually, out of staters can also go to http://www.shop42a.com when making purchases at Amazon. Amazon will donate part of their purchase to CGF and fund upcoming lawsuits.

wildhawker
08-06-2012, 1:17 PM
Thank you Brandon. Any way to add "SAF" and "NRA" to that list?

SAF can't really do anything on this - yet (read: future litigation yes) - however, CCRKBA already has our back.

-Brandon

taperxz
08-06-2012, 1:23 PM
Posting here to show off my new sig line. Shouldn't everyone have this info on their sig line on this forum?:D

Wiz-of-Awd
08-06-2012, 1:30 PM
I think stick poking at Keigwin only makes him fight back with a mind to win even harder.

"Wow Senator, look at all these calls I'm getting from these gun guys. They must be real mad. Good, let's finish this."

A.W.D.

taperxz
08-06-2012, 1:32 PM
I think stick poking at Keigwin only makes him fight back with a mind to win even harder.

"Wow Senator, look at all these calls I'm getting from these gun guys. They must be real mad. Good, let's finish this."

A.W.D.

So are you suggesting the citizens of CA to be silent? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

That is what staffers do, they are their to be the ears of the senator. :rolleyes:

Albeit Adam has a bigger mouth and probably can't listen as his jaw is in constant vertical motion.

Wiz-of-Awd
08-06-2012, 1:40 PM
So are you suggesting the citizens of CA to be silent? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

That is what staffers do, they are their to be the ears of the senator. :rolleyes:

Albeit Adam has a bigger mouth and probably can't listen as his jaw is in constant vertical motion.

When did I say that?
The Senator's staffers are also there to say, "See, we're getting to them Senator. All they can do is call and harass me, you and this office. They are really pissed now. Let's shut them down."

What I implied, in case you missed it, was that calls elsewhere may be a better tactic. Calls to those people who can help defeat the bill. Not calls to the ones who are pushing for it. They know we don't want it and why, they don't care...no need to keep screaming at them. It just fuels their feelings of joy for our outrage.

A.W.D.

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 1:42 PM
So are you suggesting the citizens of CA to be silent? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

That is what staffers do, they are their to be the ears of the senator. :rolleyes:

Albeit Adam has a bigger mouth and probably can't listen as his jaw is in constant vertical motion.

Actually, this will just goad Adam on even more. Which is exactly what he wants.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS, even if they are senate staffers and aides.

Please focus on calling/mailing/faxing legislators' offices. That is what will garner the correct attention.

taperxz
08-06-2012, 1:45 PM
Actually, this will just goad Adam on even more. Which is exactly what he wants.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS, even if they are senate staffers and aides.

Please focus on calling/mailing/faxing legislators' offices. That is what will garner the correct attention.

Yee is one of my Senators. There is nothing better than tying up phone lines to get a point across. Who cares what Keigwin wants, thinks or knows? He is a staffer His JOB is to take calls and listen to the people of CA.

jimezdoesit
08-06-2012, 1:46 PM
Here's a tweet from Sen Leland Yee:
Leland Y. Yee ‏@LelandYee Thank you to the early coauthors of #SB249 - Pro Tem Steinberg, Senators @KdLeon, Hancock, @TedLieu & Asms @Portantino, @Mike_Feuer.

taperxz
08-06-2012, 1:49 PM
I think stick poking at Keigwin only makes him fight back with a mind to win even harder.

"Wow Senator, look at all these calls I'm getting from these gun guys. They must be real mad. Good, let's finish this."

A.W.D.

When did I say that?
The Senator's staffers are also there to say, "See, we're getting to them Senator. All they can do is call and harass me, you and this office. They are really pissed now. Let's shut them down."

What I implied, in case you missed it, was that calls elsewhere may be a better tactic. Calls to those people who can help defeat the bill. Not calls to the ones who are pushing for it. They know we don't want it and why, they don't care...no need to keep screaming at them. It just fuels their feelings of joy for our outrage.

A.W.D.

Stick poking by calling and voicing your opinion is what i referenced.

Adam Keigwin is a NOBODY! He serves at the pleasure of the senator. The senator serves at our pleasure. Now i will call every hour to tie up his phone lines so they can't do other work or take other calls on other bills.

Yee opened up this can of worms and now he needs to pay!!

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 1:51 PM
Yee is one of my Senators. There is nothing better than tying up phone lines to get a point across. Who cares what Keigwin wants, thinks or knows? He is a staffer His JOB is to take calls and listen to the people of CA.

Was what you posted his personal phone or his office desk phone? There is a big difference between the two.

I agree that we do not care what Keigwin wants/thinks/knows. What we do care is getting the message to legislators that this type of behavior will not be tolerated by the voters. This means we have to send our message through the proper channels, regularly and often.

Calling/mailing/faxing offices with POLITE, RESPECTFUL, SHORT AND TO THE POINT messages is the best thing we can do right now.

taperxz
08-06-2012, 1:52 PM
Was what you posted his personal phone or his office desk phone? There is a big difference between the two.

I agree that we do not care what Keigwin wants/thinks/knows. What we do care is getting the message to legislators that this type of behavior will not be tolerated by the voters. This means we have to send our message through the proper channels, regularly and often.

Calling/mailing/faxing offices with POLITE, RESPECTFUL, SHORT AND TO THE POINT messages is the best thing we can do right now.

It was his business phone posted on Leland Yees office letter head.

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 1:54 PM
It was his business phone posted on Leland Yees office letter head.

Then I stand corrected. Carry on. :)

Just remember to be POLITE, RESPECTFUL, SHORT AND TO THE POINT. We do not have to stoop to his level. We are better than this.

Kestryll
08-06-2012, 1:57 PM
If you want to put a phone number in your signature put the number to Yee's office not a staffer's number.

YEE is the one who will be bringing this up for a vote and YEE is the one we need to address.

Keep the vitriol out of the sig line, a simple : 'Stop SB249! Call Sen. Yee and tell him you oppose SB 249' and the number does the job, it does NOT need insults or to be half a page large.

taperxz
08-06-2012, 1:58 PM
Then I stand corrected. Carry on. :)

Just remember to be POLITE, RESPECTFUL, SHORT AND TO THE POINT. We do not have to stoop to his level. We are better than this.

Since we voted him (Yee) in i'll be any way i want. Thanks for the tip though.

ProlificARProspect
08-06-2012, 1:59 PM
Was what you posted his personal phone or his office desk phone? There is a big difference between the two.

I agree that we do not care what Keigwin wants/thinks/knows. What we do care is getting the message to legislators that this type of behavior will not be tolerated by the voters. This means we have to send our message through the proper channels, regularly and often.

Calling/mailing/faxing offices with POLITE, RESPECTFUL, SHORT AND TO THE POINT messages is the best thing we can do right now.

The fact that u don't know if it's the office or personal phone #means you have not called. Please do, we need all the pressure on these guys! It's their job to listen to the people!

Jason_2111
08-06-2012, 2:12 PM
Handwritten letters are worth 1,000 emails.

Trying to convince Sen.Yee of the error of his ways is completely futile IMHO. He's term'ing out, and has no legacy. He needs some kind of popular win that he can point too for his next political aspiration. The only real anti-gun thoughts he probably has is that for him, this is a great easy win in super-left California that he can put on his resume. If 249 goes through, you'll see him mention it everywhere during his next campaign... whether is does a dang thing or not... whether it hurts the economy, gets people hurt, whatever... it doesn't matter. What matters to the politician is the next election. Period.
He's just using a popular left-side of things issue as a vehicle. If there was a clean water issue, or some child safety issue that was in the headlines, he'd be all over that instead. He is like an ambulance chasing lawyer, but the politician version. And unfortunately, he's not unique... he just has his back up to the wall.
For him, it's a win-win putting this garbage bill out there. He's anti-2A, and desperately needs a hot-button issue with his name on it. It really doesn't matter what the substance of the bill is, or who it hurts.

IMHO, trying to tell him he's wrong is completely futile... we should tell everyone ELSE how wrong Sen. Yee and his agenda driven staff are.

Having the facts on our side and being right is irrelevant if we remain the silent minority. Since we are the ones who are informed, law abiding, and good people... we need to be louder than the scared anti's.

Write letters. Make calls. Educate your friends and family. Donate to the CGF.

curtisfong
08-06-2012, 2:22 PM
Honestly, as long as we have term limits writing your congress critter to ask them to cross party lines is futile. I know the party line is "oh no, don't worry, keep writing in, it makes a difference" but the fact is that

1) Adam K is NOT a nobody. Staffers drive every single politician. They filter what the politician hears, they guide what the politicians do. Politicians are figureheads. They're puppets. They're blind/deaf talking heads that do as they're told.

2) The CA legislature is utterly corrupt. Period. They have zero interest in hearing what their constituents have to say, especially if they are termed out.

Honestly, the best thing you can do is it to talk to as many democrats as possible. Take them shooting. Avoid insulting Obama etc. etc. and actually get them to understand that gun rights are civil rights. Teach them about firearms. Show them that just about everything that comes out of an anti-gunner's mouth is either 1) provably false or 2) ignorant... and often both!

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 2:26 PM
Honestly, the best think you can do is it to talk to as many democrats as possible. Take them shooting. Avoid insulting Obama etc. etc. and actually get them to understand that gun rights are civil rights. Teach them about firearms. Show them that just about everything that comes out of an anti-gunner's mouth is either 1) provably false or 2) ignorant... and often both!

Long term wise, yes this absolutely what each and every one of us should be doing. The only way to change the make up of the legislature is to change the make up of the electorate. Winning the hearts and minds of the voters is something we have to constantly do, to dispel the false illusion the antis have cast upon us. It is a long and arduous process, but it is the counterpart to what the antis have done for the last 40 years.

Short term wise, if the staffers in legislators' offices are receiving nothing but calls/letters/faxes in opposition of this, it is not something they can simply ignore and pretend it did not happen.

XD40SUBBIE
08-06-2012, 2:53 PM
Started keeping up with the Tweets, wow, Adam and his crew holds no bounds, they even make stuff up. Here's the truth about Australia and their struggle with their draconian gun control laws:

http://youtu.be/p8RDWltHxRc

jimezdoesit
08-06-2012, 3:13 PM
Lungbuster's comment about Wisconsin:
Lungbuster Lab ‏@LungbusterBuds
@LelandYee @akeigwin @LelandYee HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE A BLATENT LIAR?? no rifles of any kind used in wisconsin....STOP LYING

Adam Keigwin's reply to Lungbuster:
Adam Keigwin ‏@akeigwin
@LungbusterBuds @LelandYee no one ever said they used a rifle. News reports say semi-auto handgun with multiple magazines.

Ten Rounder
08-06-2012, 3:15 PM
I thought they are claiming that there is no discussion*aloud from the public. Sounds sort of China like in goverment policy making. Legal purchase and now I become a felon without due process. I want $8,000.00 releaf for loss of legal property purchase.

jonzer77
08-06-2012, 3:16 PM
Lungbuster's comment about Wisconsin:
Lungbuster Lab ‏@LungbusterBuds
@LelandYee @akeigwin @LelandYee HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE A BLATENT LIAR?? no rifles of any kind used in wisconsin....STOP LYING

Adam Keigwin's reply to Lungbuster:
Adam Keigwin ‏@akeigwin
@LungbusterBuds @LelandYee no one ever said they used a rifle. News reports say semi-auto handgun with multiple magazines.

I think he is getting a huge kick out of this whole thing with some of the responses. Hopefully we all have the last laugh, it would make it that much sweeter.

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 3:40 PM
I thought they are claiming that there is no discussion*aloud from the public. Sounds sort of China like in goverment policy making. Legal purchase and now I become a felon without due process. I want $8,000.00 releaf for loss of legal property purchase.

Don't become the silent majority. We have a Call to Action out for all CalGunners to contribute to our efforts to stop this.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=604955

jimezdoesit
08-06-2012, 4:05 PM
Adam Keigwin just posted this:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/california-politics/2012/08/california-senate-leader-ag-support-gun-control-bill.html

abishai
08-06-2012, 5:22 PM
When can we expect that Action Plan email?

abishai
08-06-2012, 5:28 PM
Folks, please don't forget to Send a Hard Copy Letter to the Appropriations Committee in addition to http://stopsb249.org/take-action/

http://stopsb249.org/send-a-letter/

Dark Paladin
08-06-2012, 5:35 PM
When can we expect that Action Plan email?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=604955

You only need to write a polite, respectful, short and to the point message stating your opposition to the bill.

To be the most effective, we need to call/write/fax their offices. Simply doing only one of the three once will not be enough.

Bruceisontarget
08-06-2012, 5:38 PM
Bill,


I strongly disagree with you, on my approaching the Conservative Media, we need a voice outside of California to help bring attention both legal and otherwise. Could you agree that we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting the California media to help our cause? We need numbers, we need to get people involved across the political spectrum.
We are fighting for our collective asses on this one, we need everyone, I mean everyone. This no longer a political Dem/Rep issue, this is as you have said is a Civil Rights issue. Then if I am wrong for approaching these folks, I will stay wrong. The gloves are off, I do not give one tinkers damn if people are worried about this being politicized. If it wakes up people and stirs up a fight in them, here or outside the state, and brings more money to the effort, or legal talent then I am accomplishing my goals. A2

^^^^^^^this^^^^^^^

QQQ
08-06-2012, 5:42 PM
WRONG
You are wrong on this. The key is to have LOTS of people do it. When lots of people do it, the numbers become hard to ignore.
Sure when you have a dozen or a few dozen or a hundred, it probably doesn't make a difference. But when the phone lines are tied up for all 8 hours during the business day, and when CGF DELIVERS thousands of printed out hard copies from your online letters, and they are flooded with opposition, they will take note, as the numbers are then impossible to ignore.
If everybody did it, they will notice.
The problem is jack a**'s like you mister QQQ that are pessimists about everything, and spread poison to everybody else.
Think about, stop and think: IF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD CALLED, EMAILED, AND SENT THE LETTERS, OUR VOICE WILL BE HEARD.

Baseless conjecture.

curtisfong
08-06-2012, 5:52 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=604955

You only need to write a polite, respectful, short and to the point message stating your opposition to the bill.

To be the most effective, we need to call/write/fax their offices. Simply doing only one of the three once will not be enough.

I don't want to sound defeatist, or discourage people from doing all of these things, but I really want to know:

What evidence do you have that ANY CA congressperson has any interest in calls/faxes/mails etc? Historically, they have completely ignored ALL input from their constituents. From what I can tell, they listen to their party, lobbyists, and their staff (in that order) and no one else. What, exactly, is different this time around?

jmlivingston
08-06-2012, 5:54 PM
WRONG
You are wrong on this. The key is to have LOTS of people do it. When lots of people do it, the numbers become hard to ignore.
Sure when you have a dozen or a few dozen or a hundred, it probably doesn't make a difference. But when the phone lines are tied up for all 8 hours during the business day, and when CGF DELIVERS thousands of printed out hard copies from your online letters, and they are flooded with opposition, they will take note, as the numbers are then impossible to ignore.
If everybody did it, they will notice.
The problem is jack a**'s like you mister QQQ that are pessimists about everything, and spread poison to everybody else.
Think about, stop and think: IF EVERYBODY ON THIS BOARD CALLED, EMAILED, AND SENT THE LETTERS, OUR VOICE WILL BE HEARD.

Baseless conjecture.


No it's not. It's been a few years since the members here have been this fired up but we've made our voices heard in the past, loud and clear. I'm confident we can do it again.

abishai
08-06-2012, 6:15 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=604955

You only need to write a polite, respectful, short and to the point message stating your opposition to the bill.

To be the most effective, we need to call/write/fax their offices. Simply doing only one of the three once will not be enough.

I was referring specifically to this re the Action Plan email:
https://www.facebook.com/StopSB249campaign/posts/157047961098495

JSolie
08-07-2012, 12:21 AM
My hand hasn't hurt this bad since I had to write 500 sentences for Mr. Moskowitz back in sixth grade.... Gonna finish up my letters tomorrow.

abishai
08-07-2012, 9:50 PM
Just emailed about 20 news orgs (local, online, talk radio) per
https://www.facebook.com/StopSB249campaign/posts/427617043943169

Dragon911
08-07-2012, 10:51 PM
Can someone point me in the right direction for the pdf file for an actual signature pettition? We had someone drop them off at our range and a fellow FFL in the Bay Area would like to put them out in his shop- pls pm the link! (we collected a few pages of signatures today...)

wildhawker
08-07-2012, 11:15 PM
StopSB249.org volunteers are working on one right now. Stay tuned.

-Brandon

Dragon911
08-08-2012, 12:05 AM
StopSB249.org volunteers are working on one right now. Stay tuned.

-Brandon

My boss would like to offer our training facilities for meetings for the StopSB249 volunteers in the Sac area. Who should we talk to?

wildhawker
08-08-2012, 1:01 AM
That is very generous. We're all over the state, with pockets in Norcal, SF Bay, Sacto, Central Valley, and LA/OC/IE.

-Brandon

Dragon911
08-08-2012, 1:27 AM
That is very generous. We're all over the state, with pockets in Norcal, SF Bay, Sacto, Central Valley, and LA/OC/IE.

-Brandon

PM Me and/or TheGunRange any contact info for the folks in Sacramento please. We want to help.

BigRobb
08-08-2012, 1:56 AM
PM Me and/or TheGunRange any contact info for the folks in Sacramento please. We want to help.

I am up for doing what I can do to help as well. Busy schedule, but I will do what I can to help stop this abomination.

wildhawker
08-08-2012, 2:14 AM
PM Me and/or TheGunRange any contact info for the folks in Sacramento please. We want to help.

PMed.

-Brandon

neouser
08-08-2012, 5:40 AM
Too bad we can't get firearms manufacturers to pull a Ronnie Barrett with the state of California...

http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-602776.htm

NotEnufGarage
08-08-2012, 5:55 AM
Too bad we can't get firearms manufacturers to pull a Ronnie Barrett with the state of California...

http://www.datehookup.com/Thread-602776.htm

What would be more immediately effective would be to get all ammo manufacturers and distributors to stop supplying CA LEA's with ammo.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

mt4design
08-08-2012, 6:16 AM
Just got the press release. Well done.

Not sure if this has been pointed out but, for co-sponsor Ted Lieu, the city of Torrance is misspelled. I can't believe that idiot co-signed on to this.

My family and I have been through a tough time but I promise to send a donation. The line has been crossed.

Thank you for all your efforts.

Mike

PS: Bullet Button documentary by Calguns own Intersteller, another voice in support of Liberty, www.http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=561952

glockman19
08-08-2012, 6:55 AM
How about this for an Action Plan?...

Call the California and National Democratic Party and let them know you are a democrat that will NOT be voting the party in the upcomming election cycle SPECIFICALLY because of Legislators like Senator Leland Yee's legislation, and other offensive legislation from Democratic Representatives.

Wherryj
08-08-2012, 1:53 PM
I don't want to sound defeatist, or discourage people from doing all of these things, but I really want to know:

What evidence do you have that ANY CA congressperson has any interest in calls/faxes/mails etc? Historically, they have completely ignored ALL input from their constituents. From what I can tell, they listen to their party, lobbyists, and their staff (in that order) and no one else. What, exactly, is different this time around?

If the stack of mail is tall enough, they may just start to worry about the re-election. Attacking firearm owners in the state is done at great risk. Most of us have fallen asleep, but if we were all to wake up at the appropriate time, even the "safest" seats might not be safe.

curtisfong
08-08-2012, 1:56 PM
If the stack of mail is tall enough, they may just start to worry about the re-election.

Again, not to be negative, or to discourage people from trying to communicate with their reps, but historically, I don't think I've ever seen that happen in CA.

Generally, they follow the party line, even if it ends in their being booted out. Hell, term limits are short enough that nobody cares. EVERYBODY is a lame duck.