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View Full Version : LA Riots vs. Katrina???


RuggedJay
08-03-2012, 9:06 AM
I know, completely different scenarios, but No gun confiscations happened in the LA riots and they were able to maintain law and order. Being one of the gang capitals of the world at the time and with tens of thousands of gang membersd I would argue that it was just as dangerous as what happened in Katrina. What I wonder is, did the realization that there were tens of thoudands of possibly hostile armed gang members make them less likely to do confiscations?

Jeepers
08-03-2012, 9:09 AM
apples and oranges

one was folks just pissed and looting , the other was a disaster with no food,water,power or sanitation .... no way to compair the two ...

RickD427
08-03-2012, 9:41 AM
I know, completely different scenarios, but No gun confiscations happened in the LA riots and they were able to maintain law and order. Being one of the gang capitals of the world at the time and with tens of thousands of gang membersd I would argue that it was just as dangerous as what happened in Katrina. What I wonder is, did the realization that there were tens of thoudands of possibly hostile armed gang members make them less likely to do confiscations?

I was working out of a south L.A. Sheriff's Station during the riots, and was on duty when things started jumping off. LEO's were quickly overwhelmed, and work was accomplished on priority basis. If someone had a weapon and threatened an LEO with it, they got shot (that happened on once at my station). If they had a weapon, in a defensive posture, no problem.

The L.A. riots were very unique. IMHO, the actions of most rioters was more festive than purposeful. I was surprised how easily displaced most of them were. A little bit of police presence went a long way toward preventing damage and injury. On the other hand, in the LAPD jurisdiction next to us, their leadership had elected to withdraw officers from the field and there was considerable property damage and many fatalities. The real lesson was not to allow a critical mass to develop.

Many small store owners were able to successfully defend their businesses with small arms. I don't recall there being any major issues with lawfully armed private persons. I believe that a lot of business and homes were left untouched because they were appropriately defended. Again, I was really surprised how quickly rioters would "move on" when given a reason to do so.

Katrina was quite different. I wasn't there and have only read some of the after-action reports. The scale of Katrina was much larger and that placed the LEO forces under much more pressure. I suspect that there was also a lot more fear among the populace. In L.A. there were lots of pockets where you could escape riot activity, not so in Katrina. Those factors probably don't impact the weapons seizure practices, but the events were very different

Jack L
08-03-2012, 10:00 AM
This has been asked here before. As you eluded to, much has changed since both of the LA riots.. I.E., the number of firearms and type of firearms now in the hands of gangsters who are willing to use them, and also in the hands of law abiding citizens, are both dramatic in comparison to back in the day. That alone is enough to make one contemplate a scenario of a major earthquake, natural disaster and/or anarchy precipitated by an event such as in the past.

Can you imagine LEOs or the National Guard trying to confiscate all the firearms? Think of the logistics alone, it would not happen for days if at all and by then, it would be too late to make a difference at least in the epicenter of the event.

With the laws now on the books or in flux in many states, the consensus seems to be let the citizen keep his/her firearm. After all, that is the whole point of owning one, to protect life when you need to.

Fate
08-03-2012, 10:08 AM
I know, completely different scenarios, but No gun confiscations happened in the LA riots and they were able to maintain law and order.
That's not the L.A. Riots I remember...

OneHotDog
08-03-2012, 10:10 AM
I was working out of a south L.A. Sheriff's Station during the riots, and was on duty when things started jumping off. LEO's were quickly overwhelmed, and work was accomplished on priority basis. If someone had a weapon and threatened an LEO with it, they got shot (that happened on once at my station). If they had a weapon, in a defensive posture, no problem.

The L.A. riots were very unique. IMHO, the actions of most rioters was more festive than purposeful. I was surprised how easily displaced most of them were. A little bit of police presence went a long way toward preventing damage and injury. On the other hand, in the LAPD jurisdiction next to us, their leadership had elected to withdraw officers from the field and there was considerable property damage and many fatalities. The real lesson was not to allow a critical mass to develop.

Many small store owners were able to successfully defend their businesses with small arms. I don't recall there being any major issues with lawfully armed private persons. I believe that a lot of business and homes were left untouched because they were appropriately defended. Again, I was really surprised how quickly rioters would "move on" when given a reason to do so.

Katrina was quite different. I wasn't there and have only read some of the after-action reports. The scale of Katrina was much larger and that placed the LEO forces under much more pressure. I suspect that there was also a lot more fear among the populace. In L.A. there were lots of pockets where you could escape riot activity, not so in Katrina. Those factors probably don't impact the weapons seizure practices, but the events were very different

The LASD did a good job back when Block was Sheriff. With Sheriff Leroy (and his $284,000 salary) can't see the LASD being as diligent if there were the same type of riots now.

Batman
08-03-2012, 8:23 PM
In Katrina, the police WERE the looters as well!!

v03Z4RbcY0A

Kokopelli
08-04-2012, 5:28 AM
In Katrina, the police WERE the looters as well!!

v03Z4RbcY0A

You beat me to it.

biglou
08-04-2012, 6:29 AM
That's not the L.A. Riots I remember...

^ Couldn't agree more

SilverTauron
08-04-2012, 6:37 AM
I know, completely different scenarios, but No gun confiscations happened in the LA riots and they were able to maintain law and order. Being one of the gang capitals of the world at the time and with tens of thousands of gang membersd I would argue that it was just as dangerous as what happened in Katrina. What I wonder is, did the realization that there were tens of thoudands of possibly hostile armed gang members make them less likely to do confiscations?

No.

For one gang bangers don't register their guns, not that they legally have to anyway due to 5th Amendment case history. As such the police would have no means of knowing which crooks to disarm for a targeted sweep.

The rationale behind the Katrina gun confiscation boiled down to the primary reason all gun control laws are enacted:lawmakers generating appearances of doing something. I visited New Orleans pre-Katrina, and most of its black population is staunchly anti-gun just like Chicago and other urban areas.Ray Nagin got elected mayor of New Orleans for a reason.


Before the order to "take all guns " came out, His Honor the Mayor looked like a powerless imbecile presiding over a city with no law and order, cops joining the looters, and most of his voting base in the 9th Ward either having evacuated or waiting on US Coast Guard airlift out of their flooded homes. The Boss needed to do SOMETHING to appease his liberal ethnic base quick before his political career got flushed down the Mississippi.

"TAkE ALL GUNS . NO ONE WILL BE ARMED".


The tactic worked, since Ray Nagin won re-election in 2006. No conspiracy or massive government strategy here, just a desperate politician trampling over civil rights to prop up their political career with an illusion of 'taking action'. In other words, business as usual for many parts of America.

MrOrange
08-04-2012, 9:14 AM
I was working out of a south L.A. Sheriff's Station during the riots, and was on duty when things started jumping off. LEO's were quickly overwhelmed, and work was accomplished on priority basis. If someone had a weapon and threatened an LEO with it, they got shot (that happened on once at my station). If they had a weapon, in a defensive posture, no problem.

The L.A. riots were very unique. IMHO, the actions of most rioters was more festive than purposeful. I was surprised how easily displaced most of them were. A little bit of police presence went a long way toward preventing damage and injury. On the other hand, in the LAPD jurisdiction next to us, their leadership had elected to withdraw officers from the field and there was considerable property damage and many fatalities. The real lesson was not to allow a critical mass to develop.

Many small store owners were able to successfully defend their businesses with small arms. I don't recall there being any major issues with lawfully armed private persons. I believe that a lot of business and homes were left untouched because they were appropriately defended. Again, I was really surprised how quickly rioters would "move on" when given a reason to do so.

Katrina was quite different. I wasn't there and have only read some of the after-action reports. The scale of Katrina was much larger and that placed the LEO forces under much more pressure. I suspect that there was also a lot more fear among the populace. In L.A. there were lots of pockets where you could escape riot activity, not so in Katrina. Those factors probably don't impact the weapons seizure practices, but the events were very different

Sounds like you were one of the good ones!

Guy I used to work with, retired Navy, was living down thereabouts when the riots broke out, and his wife's work place was in the middle of the mess.

He told me when he went down to pick her up, he had an 870 racked to the dash of his old International Scout, and he had a 629 somewhere in there too, I forget where. He said when he came to a police blockade, they asked him where he was going and why, and then let him on his way. They didn't say one word about the shotgun.

jyo
08-04-2012, 8:09 PM
I was managing a gunstore in the SFV during the L.A, riots---very exciting times---for the most part, the big trouble was confined to the less good parts of the city---the bad guys knew that if they made trouble in other areas, THEY WOULD BE SHOT---not by the cops (they were busy), but by the local armed citizens! Before we were prohibited from selling ammo after a day or two, we sold LOTS of ammo to the Korean shop owners who put it to good use---we would see the same guys on TV at night shooting at cars full of gang guys---I don't know if they're story was truly ever told, but they did tell us at the shop and it sounded like war.
I don't know much about Katrina except what I saw on TV and it looked like a case of bad planning---many of those who were "victims" of Katrina knew it was coming, but didn't leave---scores of school buses left on parking lots BELOW sea level, etc. Of course, Katrina covered a huge area as well, making govt response difficult.

Kokopelli
08-05-2012, 5:14 AM
I was in elementary school in the SFV during the Watts riots. Dad drove to Los Angeles, where he worked near LAX. He was concerned it would spill over onto his commute route so he bought a Beretta 92 from Montgomery Wards in Panorama City. He had it on the front seat of his car with a detached loaded magazine. I guess you could drive that way back in the 60's.

Oceanbob
08-05-2012, 5:54 AM
Big difference between the Riots and the Storm.

We were up in Burbank for a Wedding that weekend. Some freeways were closed going into South Central and other roads were closed for police or fire fighters who were trying to contain the 200 fires that people purposely set.
Local pockets of violent street action, mainly roaming gangs of armed young men who were looting, shooting and ruling over their Territory (Turf)

We were threading our way from Orange County to Burbank up the 5. Had to divert several times. Even on the Freeway we could see cars with families that had Rifles or shotguns in them. We had 2 Mini 14s with hi caps, several handguns (mostly my 1911s) and the tension and awareness of the Riots were such that when we arrived at the Hotel (for our 2 day stay) they had a couple of armed security people who helped us move our weapons/baggage to the room. Not a problem.

One friend who had never owned or shot a gun in his life was coming home from work to his Apartment complex very close to a shopping Mall that had been targeted and looted all day. The manager of the complex had installed CHAINS and PADLOCKS on all the gates into the Apartment complex. (I think it was just a 10 unit place)....

John parked his car on the street and while walking to the gate had to DUCK into the bushes and hide when two car loads of armed gang members (one was a pickup truck with several rifle toting gangsters standing in the bed) slowly drove down the street. They were looking for people to rob.

He said he had to hide for 40 minutes in the bushes as these people and others drove up and down the streets. He was too afraid to try and get back to his car; some of the cars had windows smashed and searched for valuables. He couldn't get into the gate because of the chains. Being alone in this situation was horrific. Finally someone came by inside the fence who John knew and soon the gate was unlocked so he could hurry inside. Even in his apartment he felt in danger. Fires up the street were raging. Looters and gang members everywhere. Lots of gun fire going on all night long.

Now days John owns a Glock 22 and feels much safer. True story.

Oceanbob
08-05-2012, 5:58 AM
I was managing a gunstore in the SFV during the L.A, riots---very exciting times---for the most part, the big trouble was confined to the less good parts of the city---the bad guys knew that if they made trouble in other areas, THEY WOULD BE SHOT---not by the cops (they were busy), but by the local armed citizens! Before we were prohibited from selling ammo after a day or two, we sold LOTS of ammo to the Korean shop owners who put it to good use---we would see the same guys on TV at night shooting at cars full of gang guys---I don't know if they're story was truly ever told, but they did tell us at the shop and it sounded like war.
I don't know much about Katrina except what I saw on TV and it looked like a case of bad planning---many of those who were "victims" of Katrina knew it was coming, but didn't leave---scores of school buses left on parking lots BELOW sea level, etc. Of course, Katrina covered a huge area as well, making govt response difficult.

Was the store Bob and Barrys place..?...(B&B)

Loved those Korean shop owners.....THAT my friends is what gun rights are all about. :D

4UYWmTQRqAo

Bobby Ricigliano
08-05-2012, 6:17 AM
I don't worry about gun confiscation anymore ever since I lost all of mine in a boating accident.

Kokopelli
08-05-2012, 6:29 AM
I don't worry about gun confiscation anymore ever since I lost all of mine in a boating accident.

You too?