Man protects his family from undercover officer

[phobos512]

Saw this over @ Fark...

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_159164139.html

clock Jun 8, 2007 3:39 pm US/Central
Man Suspected Of Shooting Officer Released

(AP) Anoka, Minn. Anoka County authorities have released without charges a man suspected of shooting and wounding an undercover Robbinsdale police officer.

Martin Treptow,35, says he fired to protect his wife and two toddlers inside the family SUV.

The Anoka County attorney's office says Treptow was released after Thursday's incident in Coon Rapids, but the investigation was ongoing.

Coon Rapids police say Treptow and a 27-year old officer in an unmarked car got into a dispute on the road. After angry words and gestures, Treptow pulled his SUV up to the driver side of the other car, stopped at a light. Treptow says as the driver got out of his, he pulled out a weapon.

"We're about three feet away from each other and he's pointing the gun at my wife, so it was a tough situation, where I couldn't drive away at that particular moment, I had to defend my family," Treptow said.

Treptow says the man was in street clothes and never identified himself as a police officer. With his wife in the passenger seat, Treptow fired three shots at the officer, hitting him in both legs and grazing his arm.

The 27-year-old officer was treated and released at a Minneapolis hospital for wounds to his legs and arm.

The man's two children were also in the vehicle at the time. He had a permit to carry a weapon.

(© 2007 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. )

Yes, you read that right, an armed citizen defended himself from a road-raging undercover police officer who failed to declare himself and PULLED A GUN BECAUSE HE WAS MAD.

[ETD1010]

Holy Crap, that's terrible. -1 for those gun grabbers who believe only LEO should have guns.... I'm just very greatful that the agency conducted a fair investigation (thus far) and released him without charges. Road rage is a nasty demon. I can't believe the cop did that. . . :mad:

[Dont Tread on Me]

Cops should know better than to get tied up in road rage.

CCW holders should know better than to get tied up in road rage. This goes double for when your family is in the car!

Both guys ***ed up and make gun owners and law enforcement look bad. We have the Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie of the gun world meeting here.

[Piper]

The road rage is bad enough, but what about charging the cop with brandishing a firearm? He had no legal reason to draw his firearm. He deserves what he got. Aw crap, someone is going to call me a cop hater again.

[Fjold]

They were both idiots to get involved in a road rage incident.

From how the article reads:

The CCW holder was stupid to pull up alongside the other driver at the light and the second the door opened in the other car he should have blown the light and left.

The cop was an idiot for getting involved in the incident and for getting out of his car at the light. He was felony stupid for pulling his gun.

No one wins here.

[Piper]

They were both idiots to get involved in a road rage incident.

From how the article reads:

The CCW holder was stupid to pull up alongside the other driver at the light and the second the door opened in the other car he should have blown the light and left.

The cop was an idiot for getting involved in the incident and for getting out of his car at the light. He was felony stupid for pulling his gun.

No one wins here.

:iagree:

[Scarecrow Repair]

I am not one to think cops are all nice sweet fellows, but here I wonder if the very act of pulling up next to the undercover cop might have seemed threatening to the cop, and when the door opened, he got out with his gun intentionally. The article is very vague about who was road raging. I could also imagine the cop not expecting a CCW gun in return and even if he had tried to say something as he got out with his gun, it might not have been heard in the shuffle.

[biff]

Regardless of right or wrong and I'm not taking sides but - three shots with two and a half hits is pretty good shooting considering the circumstances.

[kantstudien]

Who taught this guy to shoot, Murtaugh? Legs and arm? :rolleyes:

Just remember there are three sides to every story, his side, her side, and then reality.

[Jicko]

If the cop is stupid enough to draw a weapon on a road rage... I wondered why he didn't say that he drew after ID'ing himself and said that the driver made threatening comments..... then the driver probably won't walk out like this.....

[socalguns]

Lets not forget who has more training :)

[uclaplinker]

Lets not forget who has more training :)

Forget? I don't even know who has more training. I know quite a few people who are exceptional shooters under all conditions -- from practical pistol competitors to private contractors to serious hobbyists -- and many of them are very competent and train frequently.

The LEO I know also train, but they are exceptions in their units. One is on several advanced tactics squads and does some Entry team work for OPD. The impression I get from him is that, unless you're in a seriously intense town where there are daily high-risk incidents, most LEOs aren't kept up on training and probably wouldn't be ready to handle themselves.

That's not to say they're not better than most, but we're talking about a CCW holder who could be very good about maintaining his carry responsibilites by becoming very proficient.

So, what should I not forget:D?

[diegojosh]

Forget? I don't even know who has more training. I know quite a few people who are exceptional shooters under all conditions -- from practical pistol competitors to private contractors to serious hobbyists -- and many of them are very competent and train frequently.

The LEO I know also train, but they are exceptions in their units. One is on several advanced tactics squads and does some Entry team work for OPD. The impression I get from him is that, unless you're in a seriously intense town where there are daily high-risk incidents, most LEOs aren't kept up on training and probably wouldn't be ready to handle themselves.

That's not to say they're not better than most, but we're talking about a CCW holder who could be very good about maintaining his carry responsibilites by becoming very proficient.

So, what should I not forget:D?

lets not forget about serious video game players!:43:

[Piper]

This incident certainly puts a kink in the antigun viewpoint that only cops and military should have guns.

The Bradey's say that blood will be running in the street because "civilians" will draw their weapons and shoot each other in road rage incidents. They never mention pissed off undercover cops drawing their weapons in road rage incidents.

This cop should be held to a higher standard than the civilian because he is given power an authority by the state that the average citizen doesn't have.

With power and authority, comes more responsibility and accountability. If a person disagrees with that then they should be removed from that authoritative position. Authority can corupt if it goes unchecked.

[gunrun45]

We had a very junior officer in my department do something similar here in northern CA. He brandished a handgun in an act of road rage while driving on the freeway. He was imediately put on administrative leave, charges were filed in the county of the incident and he was fired.

Behavior like this has no place in our society, especially by law enforcement. We know better. So does everybody else.

[BigDogatPlay]

Behavior like this has no place in our society, especially by law enforcement. We know better. So does everybody else.

+1 on the above. Situations like this make me all the more skeptical when I read about agencies lowering their pre-employment standards.

[M. Sage]

In my home town, there was an old cop who tried to rob the City Manager's secretary... for his disability pay... In city hall... With his duty sidearm.

[jaymz]

They were both idiots to get involved in a road rage incident.

From how the article reads:

The CCW holder was stupid to pull up alongside the other driver at the light and the second the door opened in the other car he should have blown the light and left.

The cop was an idiot for getting involved in the incident and for getting out of his car at the light. He was felony stupid for pulling his gun.

No one wins here.

What if there was traffic? Blow the light and kill your family or someone else's? The shooter was stupid for pulling up next to the guy at the signal, but blowing the light would have been WAY stupid, he even stated in the article that it wasn't safe to pull away.

[simonov]

Yes, you read that right, an armed citizen defended himself from a road-raging undercover police officer who failed to declare himself and PULLED A GUN BECAUSE HE WAS MAD.

Wow, color me shocked.

Well, on second thoughts, not so shocked: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Bell

http://www.ocweekly.com/news/news/angry-asian-rap-stalls-case/27083/

[simonov]

I am not one to think cops are all nice sweet fellows, but here I wonder if the very act of pulling up next to the undercover cop might have seemed threatening to the cop,

Dudes can't win. Stop at a light, you're threatening a cop. Blow through the light, the cop would come after him for that.

[Clodbuster]

Not exactly. He didn't know the guy was a cop until afterwards.

But blowing through a red light would give the cop exactly the excuse/justification he needs to pull his firearm and shoot if he wanted to. Then it wouldn't be the cops "fault".


Clod

Dudes can't win. Stop at a light, you're threatening a cop. Blow through the light, the cop would come after him for that.

[Scarecrow Repair]

But blowing through a red light would give the cop exactly the excuse/justification he needs to pull his firearm and shoot if he wanted to. Then it wouldn't be the cops "fault".

I don't think cops anywhere are legally justified shooting at a fleeing car which just ran a red light.

[doctor_vals]

Originally Posted by socalguns
Lets not forget who has more training
Forget? I don't even know who has more training. I know quite a few people who are exceptional shooters under all conditions -- from practical pistol competitors to private contractors to serious hobbyists -- and many of them are very competent and train frequently.

The LEO I know also train, but they are exceptions in their units. One is on several advanced tactics squads and does some Entry team work for OPD. The impression I get from him is that, unless you're in a seriously intense town where there are daily high-risk incidents, most LEOs aren't kept up on training and probably wouldn't be ready to handle themselves.

That's not to say they're not better than most, but we're talking about a CCW holder who could be very good about maintaining his carry responsibilites by becoming very proficient.

So, what should I not forget:D?

It is a good point, probably for separate thread, but....
I cannot tell you - I an good trained person (go to the range with handgans once every 3 or 4 weeks). About a year ago in Milpitas when I went in I heard something unusual - somebody shoot faster than one shot per 2 sec.
That guy was wearing "Police" vest. He shoot at 10' at target silhouette of the human head. I was just 5 rows away when I put the same target at same distance. I broke the rules at that time (1 shot every 2 sec) and I release 2 magazines very quickly and 19 times in the head and once 1/2" to the right.
All folks - start smiling, because it was waaaay better than that guy shoot.

About this situation - I think LEO behaviour - was as idiot when he became mad -he took a gun (it is so obvious for cops). I will discharge him right away.
And other guy - he is a good shooter, but dumb as well when he put on jeopardy life of whole family.

[Clodbuster]

I use to think cops weren't justified in shooting people wielding only a broom. But was of course proven wrong...

After action report here would show that the fleeing car not only commited a crime by running the light, running away from an officer of the law, but the driver was also ARMED with a weapon.

Clod

I don't think cops anywhere are legally justified shooting at a fleeing car which just ran a red light.

[Scarecrow Repair]

I use to think cops weren't justified in shooting people wielding only a broom. But was of course proven wrong...

After action report here would show that the fleeing car not only commited a crime by running the light, running away from an officer of the law, but the driver was also ARMED with a weapon.

Clod

I thought deadly force was only authorized to prevent death or severe injury. The same rule that you have to stop shooting a burglar or beating an attacker when they try to flee or are otherwise no longer a threat.

[Clodbuster]

A few years back, an old man swinging a broom on his property was shot dead by the police in the East Bay. This was in broad daylight with lots of witnesses, so no mistake that he was carrying anything more than a broom. The mere fact that he was swinging it at the police officers was justification for use of lethal force.

If it was a baseball bat, or baton that is illegal to own in CA, I would understand...sort of. I would think that police officers with batons themselves have the training to outfight others similiarly equipped.
But I have been hit by a broom myself, by a much younger person, and it didn't hurt that much...
Of course the guy was old and asian, so maybe he was a gung fu master.

There was an incident just the other day where a police officer chasing a suspect was hit by a car, and an undercover federal officer who just happened to be standing there took the pursuit. The running suspect had a knife, got tired running, turned around, and was shot down by the federal officer. Mostly likely justifiable...but still. If the guy was too tired to run, probably too tired for a hand to hand knife fight...but lots of grey area.

Many stories out there, but the short of it is that the bar has been lowered on the use of lethal force by LE.

Clod


I thought deadly force was only authorized to prevent death or severe injury. The same rule that you have to stop shooting a burglar or beating an attacker when they try to flee or are otherwise no longer a threat.

[ivanimal]

There are good and bad people in every profession, the guy did the right thing protecting his family, if we believe what was written. We don’t really know the whole situation. I would have to say that this kind of thing is rare among the LE community. I know I have had bad days and been an *** on the road. I would never even think to settle road rage with a weapon of any sort. Best to get away from the problem or drive to a police station.

[1064chubbs]

Clodbuster you are correct, an officer can pretty much interpret any kind of threatening action (no matter how minor) as good enough reason to use lethal force. Have any of you seen police pursuits sometimes when the criminal tries to run they will shoot (its rare but it has happened) all officers have no business getting into pointless arguments anyway.

[triggerhappy]

+1 on the above. Situations like this make me all the more skeptical when I read about agencies lowering their pre-employment standards.

Egad. You said it! Remember when cops were the better part of the citizentry (for the most part)? Now, it's an aberration. There's a few (eta 34, for example) but it seems like they're taking what they can get these days.

Pretty soon, a ham sandwich will meet the POST criteria.