PDA

View Full Version : Build parties and California penal code 29010


ArmsTech
08-02-2012, 10:51 AM
Just wanted to clarify something, can someone who builds their own California compliant rifle for their own personal use be subject to being convicted of this statute? The wording is confusing and I could see this being a "catch all" charge for home builders:


Link to law:
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/29010.html


(a) Commencing July 1, 1999, no person, firm, or corporation
licensed to manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing
with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code may
manufacture firearms within this state unless that person, firm, or
corporation is licensed pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with
Section 29030).
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person licensed to
manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section
921) of Title 18 of the United States Code who manufactures fewer
than 100 firearms in a calendar year within this state.
(c) If a person, firm, or corporation required to be licensed
pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29030) ceases
operations, then the records required pursuant to Section 29130 and
subdivision (b) of Section 29115 shall be forwarded to the federal
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives within three days
of the closure of business.
(d) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

kaligaran
08-02-2012, 11:09 AM
If I understand it correctly, if you purchase a stripped lower (for example) which includes the tracked serial number that is the piece of the gun that you can't manufacture.

The rest of the parts are just pieces of metal.

Jason_2111
08-02-2012, 11:19 AM
From what I read (IANAL, but I have a very good one), this code section basically says that if you are a licensed manufacturer under Chapter 44 Title 18 (FFL), you can't manufacture in California without a license from the State.... unless (b) you make less than 100 per year.

This doesn't have anything to do with home builders as far as I can tell.

For better clarification, I'd request a read from the almighty Librarian.

Jason_2111
08-02-2012, 11:27 AM
Here's how I read it...

(a) Commencing July 1, 1999, no person, firm, or corporation
licensed to manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing
with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code may
manufacture firearms within this state unless that person, firm, or
corporation is licensed pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with
Section 29030).
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a person licensed to
manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section
921) of Title 18 of the United States Code who manufactures fewer
than 100 firearms in a calendar year within this state.
(c) If a person, firm, or corporation required to be licensed
pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29030) ceases
operations, then the records required pursuant to Section 29130 and
subdivision (b) of Section 29115 shall be forwarded to the federal
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives within three days
of the closure of business.
(d) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

(a) Commencing July 1, 1999, nobody with an FFL no person, firm, or corporation licensed to manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code may
manufacture firearms within this state unless they have a State License as described in that person, firm, or
corporation is licensed pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with
Section 29030).
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to a any FFL holders person licensed to
manufacture firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section
921) of Title 18 of the United States Code who manufactures fewer
than 100 firearms in a calendar year within this state.
(c) If anyone with a State License a person, firm, or corporation required to be licensed
pursuant to Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 29030) ceases
operations, closes, then the relevant firearms records required pursuant to Section 29130 and
subdivision (b) of Section 29115 shall be forwarded to the ATF withing 3 days of closing. federal
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives within three days
of the closure of business.
(d) A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

Intimid8tor
08-02-2012, 11:55 AM
From what I read (IANAL, but I have a very good one), this code section basically says that if you are a licensed manufacturer under Chapter 44 Title 18 (FFL), you can't manufacture in California without a license from the State.... unless (b) you make less than 100 per year.

This doesn't have anything to do with home builders as far as I can tell.

For better clarification, I'd request a read from the almighty Librarian.

I think you are dead on.
It's actually not too different than federal codes. No where in federal codes does it say that a person can make their own. The ATF has put it in their FAQ, but it is not part of code. What they do do, is define manufacturer, etc and as long as you are not a mfg, you are good to go.

Not sure how this would impact, if at all, those businesses running group builds or group machining. It might be different based on which license they have.

Mssr. Eleganté
08-02-2012, 12:26 PM
Like Jason pointed out, the law only applies to FFLs.

ke1dzyne
08-02-2012, 12:35 PM
Does the FFL limitation also apply to C&R FFLs? It would be a shame to use the C&R for parts discounts, but not be able to build legally.

mdimeo
08-02-2012, 12:48 PM
Does the FFL limitation also apply to C&R FFLs? It would be a shame to use the C&R for parts discounts, but not be able to build legally.

A C&R isn't a federal license to manufacture.

G-forceJunkie
08-02-2012, 6:20 PM
(a) Commencing July 1, 1999, no person, firm, or corporation
licensed to manufacture firearms...


If you do not hold an FFL to manufacture firearms, you can stop reading right there, the rest does not apply to the rest of us.

ArmsTech
08-02-2012, 7:42 PM
I want to add that I started this thread because I overheard something...

This is only hearsay at this point but I heard through someone that a District Attorney in California is charging someone with this crime for being in possession of parts kits and AK builder tools and a partially complete AK. Like I said its only hearsay at this point but I just want to clarify how this law applies to individuals and build parties.

mrdd
08-02-2012, 7:53 PM
I want to add that I started this thread because I overheard something...

This is only hearsay at this point but I heard through someone that a District Attorney in California is charging someone with this crime for being in possession of parts kits and AK builder tools and a partially complete AK. Like I said its only hearsay at this point but I just want to clarify how this law applies to individuals and build parties.

And we are telling you that this law only applies to holders of a federal firearm manufacturing license. The point of the law is to require them to get a state license if they manufacture 100 or more items per calendar year.

Without more information it is difficult to see how this could apply to typical build parties.

Arisaka
08-02-2012, 7:56 PM
^^ wut?!

Arisaka
08-02-2012, 7:57 PM
aimed at armstechs post

CSACANNONEER
08-02-2012, 8:04 PM
I want to add that I started this thread because I overheard something...

This is only hearsay at this point but I heard through someone that a District Attorney in California is charging someone with this crime for being in possession of parts kits and AK builder tools and a partially complete AK. Like I said its only hearsay at this point but I just want to clarify how this law applies to individuals and build parties.

Care to share where you heard it? What the charges might be? Which DA are you talking about? Or, at least what part of the state?

There is nothing illegal about homebuilding LEGAL firearms for PERSONAL USE. Now, if the DA has evidence that someone is manufacturing firearms with the intention of transfering them to someone else, I could see that. But, does the DA have evidence or, is the DA acting as "thought police"?

I've hosted about 20 build parties and had LEOs attend every one of them. Hell, I have personally invited a LEO firearms forensics expert to many of them. If it wasn't legal to have a parts kit, jigs, tools and homebuilt firearms, I would not be posting here.

cdtx2001
08-02-2012, 8:08 PM
Care to share where you heard it? What the charges might be? Which DA are you talking about? Or, at least what part of the state?

There is nothing illegal about homebuilding LEGAL firearms for PERSONAL USE. Now, if the DA has evidence that someone is manufacturing firearms with the intention of transfering them to someone else, I could see that. But, does the DA have evidence or, is the DA acting as "thought police"?

I've hosted about 20 build parties and had LEOs attend every one of them. Hell, I have personally invited a LEO firearms forensics expert to many of them. If it wasn't legal to have a parts kit, jigs, tools and homebuilt firearms, I would not be posting here.


You have outed yourself and the black helicopters are on their way to pick you up/off.

CSACANNONEER
08-02-2012, 8:53 PM
You have outed yourself and the black helicopters are on their way to pick you up/off.

You don't know the half of it.:p

Jason_2111
08-02-2012, 8:56 PM
Not all build parties are created equal... there's always a chance the one in question was doing something on the other side of the line, like letting people do one for a buddy, or someone being a prohibited person doing one.

Interestingly, I've seen this statute pointed out before as one of the potential (but incorrect) answers to the "how many can a person build in a year?" question.

But anyways... more details on the who-what-when-where would be good. Combat FUD!

ArmsTech
08-02-2012, 10:14 PM
Care to share where you heard it? What the charges might be? Which DA are you talking about? Or, at least what part of the state?

There is nothing illegal about homebuilding LEGAL firearms for PERSONAL USE. Now, if the DA has evidence that someone is manufacturing firearms with the intention of transfering them to someone else, I could see that. But, does the DA have evidence or, is the DA acting as "thought police"?

I've hosted about 20 build parties and had LEOs attend every one of them. Hell, I have personally invited a LEO firearms forensics expert to many of them. If it wasn't legal to have a parts kit, jigs, tools and homebuilt firearms, I would not be posting here.

Let me see if I can get the DA's name, county and docket number if I do I will IM it to you in the next few days.