PDA

View Full Version : I may be returning to CA, I've done some research. Will you all validate my thinking?


krby
08-02-2012, 7:23 AM
It's possible I'll be moving back to CA next year. As part of this, I've been researching what I need to be legal and bring everything back. I don't want to do anything permanent because once I'm a CA resident, I'll still travel with these items to other states. Here's my plan:

- Newish AR-15 from Daniel Defense. 16" barrel, 32-ish" overall when collapsed, with a bunch of "evil features".

Before I move, I plan to install a raddlock. I like the idea of being able to switch back to non-CA mode pretty easily once I get to a class or shoot in a different state. Or should I just buy a bullet button and decide to put the stock magazine release back in? Is it legal for me to keep the stock magazine release as a separate part while I'm in CA? If I ever sold this to someone outside CA, I'd sell that with it include in the box.


- 20 and 30rng mags for the above rifle.

I plan to disassemble all of them and buy 10/30 and 10/20 mags. I'd keep the 30rnd parts for when I travel out of state. So I do plan on reassembling the 30rnd magazines, but only when out of CA, and disassembling before I return to CA. I'm ok here right?


- I have several CA-legal but not on the roster handguns. I'm thinking about selling them to family or friends in CA. I know that I can do a private-party transfer at a CA FFL once I'm a resident. If I do the transfer inside the 60-day "personal importer" window, do I need to bother notifying the DOJ and paying $19 for these guns? Will this raise suspicion with the DOJ? I have 4-5 I plan on selling, but I don't want to the DOJ to think I'm running a business importing non-CA-rostered guns and selling them. I have an actual job, I'd just like to raise some cash and some people in CA have expressed intrest in these pistols and when I realized I was moving back, it became possible. I think doing this is legal, but I wanted to get other opinions.

cdtx2001
08-02-2012, 7:30 AM
Buy a bullet button and be done with it. Simple and no chance of a felony.

As for the 20-30 round mags, disassemble them before bringing them back. If they are PMags, buy the magazine block and convert them to 10 rounders legally and on the cheap. No need to buy new 10/20 or 10/30 mags, unless of course you've seen some really nice ones you want to buy.

Ill let some other experts chime in on the handguns.

REDdawn6
08-02-2012, 8:17 AM
Stay out of Cali. These gun laws are ****ed and gonna get worse

Bhobbs
08-02-2012, 8:19 AM
Wait to see how SB249 turns out before you plan on keeping your AR. It is likely to be amended to ban OLL rifles, mag locks and tools used to operate a mag lock.

krby
08-02-2012, 8:19 AM
Buy a bullet button and be done with it. Simple and no chance of a felony.

So buy a bullet button and just re-install the stock magazine release when I travel? What's the "chance of a felony" with the raddlock? Is it just that I'll forget to return it to CA-mode?



If they are PMags, buy the magazine block and convert them to 10 rounders legally and on the cheap.

They are pmags. What's the "magazine block"? I've seen a few inserts but those don't look permanent enough to be legal. Also, I might want to keep the 30rnd mags disassembled bjust in case one of these magazine capacity bill makes it into federal law.

phdo
08-02-2012, 8:21 AM
Regarding handguns, from what I can remember, I think you have to register them with DOJ first. There's no limit to how many you can transfer after.

Wayrightofcenter
08-02-2012, 8:22 AM
Stay where ever you are. Don't come back to this place. Save yourself...

HowardW56
08-02-2012, 8:25 AM
Wait to see how SB249 turns out before you plan on keeping your AR. It is likely to be amended to ban OLL rifles, mag locks and tools used to operate a mag lock.

Yes, it is likely to be amended... Will it become law, is yet to be seen... There is a coordinated effort brewing to oppose it...

krby
08-02-2012, 8:25 AM
Wait to see how SB249 turns out before you plan on keeping your AR. It is likely to be amended to ban OLL rifles, mag locks and tools used to operate a mag lock.

Yea, even though I left a few years ago, I've been watching the laws and doing what I could to support CalGuns.

littlejake
08-02-2012, 9:39 AM
Regarding handguns, from what I can remember, I think you have to register them with DOJ first. There's no limit to how many you can transfer after.

Part of the New Resident Handgun reporting law is an option to sell within that 60 day window. It appears to me that a new resident can sell via PPT handguns without going through the New Resident Handgun Report and paying $19 per handgun.

The 60 day clock starts from the day you bring it into CA.

There is a limit of less than 6 transactions in a calendar year. So, selling 5 handguns to 5 different CA residents via a dealer using the PPT process would be your calendar year maximum.

OP -- review the handgun AW flow chart. Some listed handguns are AWs. Threaded barrels are AWs. Magazine outside the grip is an AW....
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

adampolo13
08-02-2012, 9:43 AM
I say move here to CA, make sure you follow all laws and regulations. Then VOTE. Vote at the ballot box, vote with your time, vote with your money. We need all the 2A supporters we can get in this state!

krby
08-23-2012, 12:41 PM
Leaving aside my original questions about my actual situation, something I've always wondered about the "bring in an off-roster but otherwise legal pistol, legally sell via face-to-face PPT at a CA FFL" exception to the roster...

Does intent or timing matter? As long as I stay under the 6 transactions per year, does it matter if I buy 10 pistols or frames a day before I move to CA, with the intent of selling them in CA to others as soon as I can? It wouldn't approach an actual business, I have a regular job with a salary, I just made up that example as something that's pretty clearly intending to either make a bit of money (or make some friends happy) by playing arbitrage with the laws in CA vs other states.

UPDATE: It turns out that intent does matter. This post: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=8441819&postcount=3 sums it up quite well. It took me a while to find that thread, but it appears to be the most succinct summary of this issue. If I purchase a off-roster handgun outside of California and when I fill out form 4473 I am thinking to myself that I will sell this to my friend Joe because we previously agreed that I would, then I'm guilty of lying on form 4473 when I say "yes" to question 11a "Are you the actual transferee/buyer". Whether it's my money or his money doesn't matter, intent does. I'll just stick with buying off-roster guns that I want for myself.


NOTE: I don't want to argue about this on this thread. Take it to the thread I linked to above.

stix213
08-23-2012, 12:52 PM
There has been at least 1 documented instance of one of the convertible style magazine locks suddenly ending up in illegal AW mode when in the hands of a police officer investigating something unrelated. Bwiese discussed it and the trouble it has caused the owner. The investigation was initially about the Sacramento officers selling off roster pistols as a side business.

Jason_2111
08-23-2012, 1:20 PM
There has been at least 1 documented instance of one of the convertible style magazine locks suddenly ending up in illegal AW mode when in the hands of a police officer investigating something unrelated. Bwiese discussed it and the trouble it has caused the owner. The investigation was initially about the Sacramento officers selling off roster pistols as a side business.

I've had a radlock vibrate loose from a long day of shooting too... that's why I swapped it out for something else. Used to love them, now... not so much. :(

Curley Red
08-23-2012, 2:53 PM
So many leave, yet so many come back.

Why you coming back?

POLICESTATE
08-23-2012, 2:56 PM
Unless you have some deeply personal or family reason to move back here just stay out. Besides the oppressive gun laws (and other laws and regulations and rules and taxes, fees and fines) our economy is floating in the bowl, just waiting to get flushed.

selfshrevident
08-23-2012, 3:43 PM
Don't. Do. It. Wait a few years then see if things have changed for the better.