CCSF Police Chief Quits Over Gun Policy

[Ragweed]

I hope that they never need them.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=5376569

Jun. 7 - KGO - The police chief at City College of San Francisco has resigned over a question of security. He wanted his officers to be able to carry guns on campus, especially in light of a recent incident, but he was overruled.

In late April, 52-year-old Peter Lee rushed into a classroom in the science building, dressed in camouflage. Students say he threatened to kill everyone. But campus police had to wait until S.F.P.D. arrived before they could respond. That's because campus cops don't carry guns -- only pepper spray and batons.

Fortunately, Lee was not armed either and they arrested him without incident.

Since last year, City College Police Chief Carl Koehler has been lobbying the administration to allow his officers to carry guns.

Carl Koehler, CCSF Police Chief: "In this day and age, there are guns on campus, but the police don't have them."

The carnage at Virginia Tech convinced Chief Koehler even more that his officers need to be armed. But he was fighting a 70-year-old college policy prohibiting its officers from carrying guns.

In the end, Chief Koehler lost. He resigned this week.

He said in an e-mail to his officers, "the reasons are many, but mainly evolve around my proposal to arm the district police officers."

Peter Goldstein, CCSF Vice Chancellor: "The police force does not carry weapons... I guess he felt that ultimately didn't fit in with his vision of where the department should be."

Koehler was unavailable for comment. His officers declined to talk on camera. Privately, they told us they're angry and frustrated. But the administration has no intention of changing policy.

ABC7's Vic Lee: "So it's a dead issue?"

Peter Goldstein: "At this point, I'd say unless the board of trustees wishes to consider it, it's not an issue for the college."

So, City College police will continue patrolling this campus unarmed, protected only by their bulletproof vests.

[WokMaster1]

Why do CCSF cops need guns? Students there are there to learn besides SF has no crazy people nor criminals. Give peace a chance & could someone please pass the bong?:rolleyes:

[USMC_2651_E5]

This is obsurd, especially in the wake of VT.

[Charliegone]

Damn those hippies! (unless you're a gun loving):chris:

[dfletcher]

Eventually something bad will happen there. They'll blame the gun and use it as an excuse to enact more restrictions. Allowing good guys to have guns on campus could prevent that - so why would they allow that to happen? What's a few dozen dead people if the result is what they want - greater gun control? Breaking eggs to make omelets, nothing more.

[grammaton76]

They don't need guns. Just teach them to use compound bows. Worked for Rambo, right?

[rod]

:D
The only use I can see for a SF college cop to have a gun...

[AJAX22]

They don't need guns. Just teach them to use compound bows. Worked for Rambo, right?

Don't forget the Duke Boys......

[Fjold]

Don't forget the Duke Boys......


and McGiver.

Jeez, hippies are stupid.

[tay]

They should follow the Mexican police weapon's policy:

http://www.tomzap.com/OCT2006oaxaca/pict146.jpg
http://www.mexidata.info/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/resorteras.jpg

Or Wait for our Senate woman to respond:
http://www.ak47world.com/feinsteinAK47.jpg

[Piper]

They should follow the Mexican police weapon's policy:

http://www.tomzap.com/OCT2006oaxaca/pict146.jpg
http://www.mexidata.info/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/resorteras.jpg

Or Wait for our Senate woman to respond:
http://www.ak47world.com/feinsteinAK47.jpg

Now that's a scary picture. :eek:

[blacklisted]

I had an instructor that was strongly opposed to the campus police carrying firearms. He said that he would rather wait for something to happen that would justify them carrying guns (this was before Va. Tech). I was sitting there thinking that this is like waiting for a flat tire to put a spare in your car. :mad:

He also cited the "weapons effect."*

Of course, he and the others opposed to arming the officers won the debate.

*The weapons effect is the process in which seeing a weapon cues thoughts of aggression, and in turn makes aggressive behavior more likely. The presence of a gun may not only make aggression more deadly, it may also make it more likely in the first place. Also, perceiving a weapon can make aggression more likely. Common stereotypes can make observers more ready to see a gun in the hands of members of some groups than of others.

http://www.psypress.com/smithandmackie/resources/topic.asp?topic=ch13-tp-02

[shooterx10]

You can spam...er.... contact that CCSF Board of Trustees and let them know about their dangerous stance in NOT arming the CCSF police force. It's just another Columbine and Virginia Tech incident waiting to happen. The SF State police are armed! DUH! But dealing with the anti-gun folks is like this is: :beatdeadhorse5:

--------------------------------------------

Spade's San Francisco
http://samspadesf.blogspot.com/

Comments: Feel free to click on the envelope icon and say whatever you like. Email:samspadesanfrancisco@yahoo.com
Thursday, June 07, 2007
Shooting at City College


If you read an earlier story in this blog, Waiting for Death at City College (CCSF), then you know there is a very serious life-or-death problem at San Francisco's 2-year community college.

CCSF is the scene of a future murder. It is almost inevitable that a college with approximately 100,000 students where the police are not permitted to carry guns (but some of the students do) will experience at least one murder in the foreseeable future. To deny this reality requires about the same level of intelligence demonstrated by a rock - zero.

If you have not read Waiting for Death at City College, you may do so now by clicking on the above link.

Today CCSF Police Chief Carl Koehler resigned under protest because the Board of Trustees continue to stubbornly refuse to allow the CCSF Police Department to equip themselves to protect students' lives and their own lives. Chief Koehler said, "In this day and age, there are guns on campus, but the police don't have them."

The Board of Trustees of City College have, by their lack of action, demonstrated to the voting public of San Francisco that they are not doing their jobs, not addressing the most serious issues at City College, not living up to their obligation to protect the student body, and steadfastly refusing to listen to or respond to the demands of the public. They are an arrogant bunch of self-absorbed Paris Hiltons - unintelligent, untalented and self-centered.

The entire Board of Trustees should resign, not the people who put their lives on the line to protect the students and faculty. Get rid of the elected baggage, but - for God's sake - keep the professional police officers who are sworn to protect lives.

None - repeat: NONE of these Board Members should ever again be elected to public office. They have failed miserably and they are a disgrace to City College of San Francisco, a disgrace to higher education, an embarrassment to the community and an affront to San Francisco voters. The members of the CCSF Board of Trustees are inept, arrogant and shallow in their thinking. They are an absolute failure.

Note: If I am wrong about the entirety of the Board of Trustees - if there is at least one sane voice on the Board, I would very much like to know who that person may be and I would like to hear from that person directly. I will gladly give credit where it is due, but up to this point it appears there is not a single member of the CCSF Board of Trustees who has earned any credit at all. It appears that the entire Board has flunked out.

If you want to voice your opinion to the members of the CCSF Board of Trustees, or ask them to take a position, here are their email addresses:

Dr. Anita Grier, president - agrier@ccsf.edu
Julio J. Ramos, vice-president - jramos@ccsf.edu
Natalie Berg - nberg@ccsf.edu
Milton Marks - mmarks@ccsf.edu (and) miltonmarks@comcast.net
John Rizzo - jrizzo@ccsf.edu
Rodel E. Rodis - rrodis@ccsf.edu
Lawrence Wong - lawong@ccsf.edu
Derick Brown - dbrown@ccsf.edu

[Fjold]

A man of principle, who'd of thought that possible for an administration level public servant in San Francisco?

[pnkssbtz]

http://www.tomzap.com/OCT2006oaxaca/pict146.jpg


Tangent, but what kind of gear (armor) is the Mexican Cop wearing in this pic?

[Fjold]

Tangent, but what kind of gear (armor) is the Mexican Cop wearing in this pic?

Probably a Turner's roller blading special.

[M. Sage]

I had an instructor that was strongly opposed to the campus police carrying firearms. He said that he would rather wait for something to happen that would justify them carrying guns (this was before Va. Tech). I was sitting there thinking that this is like waiting for a flat tire to put a spare in your car. :mad:

He also cited the "weapons effect."*

Of course, he and the others opposed to arming the officers won the debate.

*The weapons effect is the process in which seeing a weapon cues thoughts of aggression, and in turn makes aggressive behavior more likely. The presence of a gun may not only make aggression more deadly, it may also make it more likely in the first place. Also, perceiving a weapon can make aggression more likely. Common stereotypes can make observers more ready to see a gun in the hands of members of some groups than of others.

http://www.psypress.com/smithandmackie/resources/topic.asp?topic=ch13-tp-02

Wow, that "weapons effect" thing is total pop-psych BS. I'd love to see someone who's invaded a home get more agressive when he sees the homeowner aiming a 12 gauge at him... Yep. Bet that happens a hell of a lot. :rolleyes:

[Ragweed]

Wow, that "weapons effect" thing is total pop-psych BS. I'd love to see someone who's invaded a home get more agressive when he sees the homeowner aiming a 12 gauge at him... Yep. Bet that happens a hell of a lot. :rolleyes:


I don't get the logic in the weapons effect statement either. I think that more people would already associate the police uniform with a weapon already. I bet if the campus police got armed, most people would assume that the had been all along just because of what they are wearing.

Sounds like a bunch of hippy, tree huggin crap to me.

[Rogue187]

All this shows that the school board is really out of touch.
They believe that nothing will ever happen to the students..
They are just inviting a lawsuit greater than the imagination..
They have a police force which is unarmed yet these officers are expected to respond to an on-campus emergency.

Now they wait for the San Francisco Police to respond and arrest the bad guys.
What kind of safety do the students expect now?
Are these officers there just to write parking tickets and take counter reports?.

Something really big needs to happen there and there needs to be deaths before the college board takes all of their collective heads out of each others arses..

[ldivinag]

well hopefully there is a student or two who resides in a ccw friendly county that attends that school to protect the cops

all PUBLIC schools in kalif (from k through universities) are "gun free" zones for any school property within 1000 feet...

[ldivinag]

So, City College police will continue patrolling this campus unarmed, protected only by their bulletproof vests.

i say take away their vest too.

after all, the heads of CCSF dont believe in guns, so why bother with the vests...

[/sarcasm]

[Liberty1]

all PUBLIC schools in kalif (from k through universities) are "gun free" zones for any school property within 1000 feet...

CCW is exempt under state law 626.9 PC unless the issuing authority restricts schools by listing the restriction on the permit per 12050 PC.

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(l) This section does not apply to a duly appointed peace officer
as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in
California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in
making arrests or preserving the peace while he or she is actually
engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of
this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance
of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the
firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of
Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, engaged
in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision
(e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code.

[detmeng]

didn't OJ go to CCSF...

[triggerhappy]

This is obsurd, especially in the wake of VT.

It isn't absurd when you figure their desire to ban guns, not decide where they will be allowed. So what if some fruitcake kills a bunch of students, as long as it furthers the agenda, right? Never underestimate how evil these hoplophobes are.

[Satex]

Excellent news! I have always claimed that the best way to get our gun rights back is by removing the privileges from police officers. They should be considered JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CITIZEN. No AW, not standard capacity magazines, no "dangerous" off list handguns, no carry off duty. When police start feeling the pain, govt attitudes will start changing.
Lets support disarming all campus police officers, then small town police officers, and finally all CA city police officers!

[swhatb]

Excellent news! I have always claimed that the best way to get our gun rights back is by removing the privileges from police officers. They should be considered JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER CITIZEN. No AW, not standard capacity magazines, no "dangerous" off list handguns, no carry off duty. When police start feeling the pain, govt attitudes will start changing.
Lets support disarming all campus police officers, then small town police officers, and finally all CA city police officers!

i hate to admit, but Satex is right... :dupe:

[AJAX22]

Wow, that "weapons effect" thing is total pop-psych BS. I'd love to see someone who's invaded a home get more agressive when he sees the homeowner aiming a 12 gauge at him... Yep. Bet that happens a hell of a lot. :rolleyes:

I think that 'weapons effect' is probably the funniest thing I've read in a while... How would you even go about proving something like that? I've had guns pointed at me, I felt a sudden urge to hold very still and do what the nice officer was asking of me.

The police at my school are still armed, (which is probably a good thing, since there was a shootout last year right across from the school)

I don't understand the B.S. school laws, I park a good half mile from campus and walk every day.. (you can guess why) but I see people on campus with interesting bulges under their oversized cloathing all the time....

[CALI-gula]

Quite frankly, I applaud the decision to NOT allow them to carry guns, and while it's a tough but difficult choice, it's the better option and the one displaying the most common sense for the administrators to make.

Not to change the subject, but... anyone know where the City College of San Francisco campus bank or financial union is located? Anyone know where I can get a map pin-pointing all of the 24-hour service ATMs within the campus boundaries? ( I just had an epiphany.)

.

[courteousgavin]

Wait a minute! He was Chief of Police for City College? Does that mean he could have signed off on concealed carry licenses for "civilians" under his "jurisdiction"? Could he have signed off on NFA paperwork too?

We missed our chance. Sign up for 3 units of Alternative Sexuality in the History of African Art 101 and get a CCW permit!

[slick_711]

I live probably within 1000 feet of my school, and have plenty of guns at home. Maybe it's just over 1000 feet. I'll count next time I walk to class. No I don't care that much, it's gotta be less than 1000 feet though. I'm fairly certain that law doesn't apply to a person's place of residence though?

And I don't know what CCSF is smoking, must be a SF thing, the campus PD @ SDSU packs as much or more heat than anyone else. Glocks, Tasers (they use that s**t too, you should see the student paper whine about it), batons, and I've seen more than one of their cars with the standard shotgun/AR duo that SDPD officers often use.

[Whitesmoke]

all PUBLIC schools in kalif (from k through universities) are "gun free" zones for any school property within 1000 feet...

You have no idea what your talking about.....A CA CCW is valid on school property. They can post signs and have an anti gun policy...but all they can do is ask you to leave. If you don't leave when asked...your trespassing.

[Sp3k]

http://www.ak47world.com/feinsteinAK47.jpg

Don't you love her gun safety, finger on the trigger and all. :no:

[dicast]

I smell lawsuit. If someone would get injured or killed because campus police officers were waiting for SFPD to respond. Liberals, you better pray

[Yankee Clipper]

I smell lawsuit. If someone would get injured or killed because campus police officers were waiting for SFPD to respond. Liberals, you better pray
That was my thought too, as I read this thread. Ragweed, the original poster, why don't you send an email to the vice chancellor, detailing our concern for student safety, voter liability and administrative ethics/legal liability of the school's administration? Administrators burying their head in the sand are no longer a viable option in today's litigious society.

[MrTenX]

Aren't thier enough armed state and federal agents already?

[swhatb]

Wait a minute! He was Chief of Police for City College? Does that mean he could have signed off on concealed carry licenses for "civilians" under his "jurisdiction"? Could he have signed off on NFA paperwork too?

We missed our chance. Sign up for 3 units of Alternative Sexuality in the History of African Art 101 and get a CCW permit!

the chief of police for city college isn't a real chief like the sf pd chief. the city college chief cannot give ccw's and NUMEROUS other things to sign off on!! they aren't legally able to do. the college cops are just like sf pd cops, but they cannot carry guns.

as for people with ccw's, they can carry on school campuses, whether the college/school likes it or not! kalifornia law says so. :p if your a student or passing by or attending an event, go for it......if a faculty member or staff, forget it. leave it locked in the car....otherwise violates state policy on safe work place environment and hr policy.... that i may add they can enforce, legally :eek:

[Ragweed]

That was my thought too, as I read this thread. Ragweed, the original poster, why don't you send an email to the vice chancellor, detailing our concern for student safety, voter liability and administrative ethics/legal liability of the school's administration? Administrators burying their head in the sand are no longer a viable option in today's litigious society.

Done already. Listen, these folks are going to do whatever they want to do and if their gun views happen to be in alignment with the mayors and the city council, all the better for their jobs and future employment opportunities.

Read Craigs list.. When someone posts something related to guns in SF, the usual response is " we are past this (guns) and the police are here to protect us. We don't need guns anymore".

[BigDogatPlay]

the chief of police for city college isn't a real chief like the sf pd chief. the city college chief cannot give ccw's and NUMEROUS other things to sign off on!! they aren't legally able to do. the college cops are just like sf pd cops, but they cannot carry guns.

The issuance of CCW within the City and County is reserved exclusively to the Chief of the SFPD or her designate. As the college district does not authorize it's peace officers to be armed, the chief of the college police can not authorize the purchase of any firearm with district funds. I believe he also can not sign off on a letter for his officers to purchase a concealable firearm outside the waiting period we all have to abide by.

[Liberty1]

[QUOTE=slick_711;639316]I live probably within 1000 feet of my school...I'm fairly certain that law doesn't apply to a person's place of residence though?
QUOTE]


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=626-626.11

626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
(b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone...

(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law...:D

[tango-52]

The issuance of CCW within the City and County is reserved exclusively to the Chief of the SFPD or her designate.
Actually, under California law, issuance of CCWs may be done by either a Chief of police of a municipality or the County Sheriff. In some counties, both Chiefs and the Sheriff issue (or do the paperwork, then deny you). In those cases, the Sheriff usually requires you to go to your municipality first, unless you reside in the unincorporated area. If you are denied by the municipality, you then have the option of applying to the Sheriff. In other counties, San Diego for example, all the municipalities skip being the middle man and defer responsibility to the Sheriff's department. The rules for issuance of CCWs are contained in Penal Code 12050-12054. The specific section on Chiefs giving authority to the Sheriff is 12050(g):
(g) Nothing in this article shall preclude the chief or other head of a municipal police department of any city from entering an agreement with the sheriff of the county in which the city is located for the sheriff to process all applications for licenses, renewals of licenses, and amendments to licenses, pursuant to this article.

At no time may the Sheriff abandon the CCW responsibility and give it solely to the municipality. It is against state law. The SF County Sheriff is violating state law with this practice.