PDA

View Full Version : Three Year Old Opens Gun Safes


CitaDeL
07-28-2012, 5:10 PM
erGOJxQIf5c

Discuss.

Ron-Solo
07-28-2012, 5:26 PM
Don't give him the combination?


Also, there is a difference between a lock box and a "safe"

707electrician
07-28-2012, 5:31 PM
Not sure I understand

CBruce
07-28-2012, 6:01 PM
It's like my nightmare...need to check my safe real quick.

Lone_Gunman
07-28-2012, 6:38 PM
So the guy taught his 3 year old how to break into gun lock boxes. There's some good parenting. :rolleyes:

The Virus
07-28-2012, 6:41 PM
a 3yr old can remember a 4 digit sequence???

Rand B. Wilson
07-28-2012, 6:54 PM
sure.. but i bet his accuracy when shooting is teh suck ..

BigFatGuy
07-28-2012, 7:03 PM
KUNTA KINTE!

CitaDeL
07-28-2012, 8:54 PM
Well this didnt spawn much discussion.

Two problems here- related to the same cause- the safes depicted are not secure.

1) If a child can jimmy it open, so can any neighborhood thief.
2) A child opened it with minimal effort and techniques that can be discovered through experimentation.

cpiaaq
07-28-2012, 9:31 PM
The problem: The locking solonoid mechanism can be mechanically disrupted into an open state by applying a sharp vertical acceleration. The three-year-old used in testing achieved this by picking the safe a few inches off the ground and dropping it. The mechanism design is common across models and manufacturers. (taken from the slashdot discussion here: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/07/27/1637208/how-a-3-year-old-can-open-a-gun-safe)


The original article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcwebertobias/2012/07/27/unsafe-gun-safes-can-be-opened-by-a-three-year-old/

todd2968
07-29-2012, 8:06 AM
The problem: The locking solonoid mechanism can be mechanically disrupted into an open state by applying a sharp vertical acceleration. The three-year-old used in testing achieved this by picking the safe a few inches off the ground and dropping it. The mechanism design is common across models and manufacturers. (taken from the slashdot discussion here: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/07/27/1637208/how-a-3-year-old-can-open-a-gun-safe)


The original article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcwebertobias/2012/07/27/unsafe-gun-safes-can-be-opened-by-a-three-year-old/

Good to know and I'll look at mine (which is screwed into my night stand)
But this guy taught his kid to use specific tools to show this

CitaDeL
07-29-2012, 9:12 AM
Good to know and I'll look at mine (which is screwed into my night stand)
But this guy taught his kid to use specific tools to show this

Yes. You are getting it. Now the troubled teenager that lives up the street from you has seen the video and learned how to use a wire hanger from your closet to get into your gun safe while you aren't home.

morfeeis
07-29-2012, 10:17 AM
Wasn't the tools the kid have access a NO NO too? Just a dumb *** parent all around if you ask me......

dieselpower
07-29-2012, 10:24 AM
There is no such thing as a "safe." There are boxes that SHOULD BE called, "takes awhile to get in", but none of them are "safes."

99% of ALL electronically locked boxes can be opened without the code. You simply remove the electronic combination pad, find the wires going to the locking mechanism and apply a voltage equal to the battery source.

I walked by a garage sale and saw a electronic lock box for sale at $10. I picked it up and felt something inside. I asked if the contents came with the box. She told me, "yes since no one knew the code". They didn't even know what was inside...it was owned by their now dead mother-in-law. Figuring I wasn't going to find a lost Shakespearian novel or a stack of money, I told the lady, "for $5 I would open it for her." I took out the 9V battery, pried away the keypad, found 4 wires leading to the keypad...2 from the battery and 2 going to the locking mechanism. I shorted the 2 wires leading to the lock across the 9V battery and the door opened. It contained bank statements and from what she read there was an unknown safety deposit box at a BofA in the valley.

I guess from seeing this video I could have just dropped it and done the same thing. :/

Legasat
07-29-2012, 11:09 AM
1. That is not a safe
2. If you have little kids and you trust something like that tinker toy to hold your firearms, you deserve what you get.
3. Kids are inquisitive. The burden is YOU, not the kids, not the "safe".

Coolguy101
07-30-2012, 8:01 AM
There is no such thing as a "safe." There are boxes that SHOULD BE called, "takes awhile to get in", but none of them are "safes."

99% of ALL electronically locked boxes can be opened without the code. You simply remove the electronic combination pad, find the wires going to the locking mechanism and apply a voltage equal to the battery source.

I walked by a garage sale and saw a electronic lock box for sale at $10. I picked it up and felt something inside. I asked if the contents came with the box. She told me, "yes since no one knew the code". They didn't even know what was inside...it was owned by their now dead mother-in-law. Figuring I wasn't going to find a lost Shakespearian novel or a stack of money, I told the lady, "for $5 I would open it for her." I took out the 9V battery, pried away the keypad, found 4 wires leading to the keypad...2 from the battery and 2 going to the locking mechanism. I shorted the 2 wires leading to the lock across the 9V battery and the door opened. It contained bank statements and from what she read there was an unknown safety deposit box at a BofA in the valley.

I guess from seeing this video I could have just dropped it and done the same thing. :/

Would the same principle apply to a full size gun safe with an electronic lock on the front? Have you tried one of those?

Coded-Dude
07-30-2012, 8:25 AM
cheap "safes" can easily be broken into and all you need to do is search for it on google or youtube. moral of the story....don't buy cheap "safes."

h0use
07-30-2012, 9:41 AM
locksmith in the making

kalieaire
07-30-2012, 11:28 AM
cheap "safes" can easily be broken into and all you need to do is search for it on google or youtube. moral of the story....don't buy cheap "safes."

Unfortunately, good morals and abundance of common sense comes few and far between in this society.

There's a reason why disclaimers or limited regulation is important.

dieselpower
07-30-2012, 12:22 PM
Would the same principle apply to a full size gun safe with an electronic lock on the front? Have you tried one of those?

I bet it would. Most of the locks are simple electo-magnet actuators. Apply a current to the wires and the actuator moves out of the way, remove the current and the actuator closes blocking the door from opening.

Its simply a matter of locating the wires leading to the actuator and applying a voltage equal to the source.

Kodemonkey
07-30-2012, 12:31 PM
I bet it would. Most of the locks are simple electo-magnet actuators. Apply a current to the wires and the actuator moves out of the way, remove the current and the actuator closes blocking the door from opening.

Its simply a matter of locating the wires leading to the actuator and applying a voltage equal to the source.

I'm sure there are some of the cheaper safes that you can do that with. But I don't think you could do that with the SG locks. The cable that goes into the safe I am pretty sure is a serial cable that sends the combination to the receiver inside the safe. If it were that easy, I doubt the $10K Fort Knox safes would be using them

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/ss_6125_sheet.pdf

The SG is used by a lot of makers like liberty, Amsec, Fort knox, etc.

m98
07-30-2012, 3:53 PM
My friends got a lock box like the one in the vid and he keeps $30k bones in it. Imma go to his house now and after that i'll stop by the lgs to jail up a few toys and accessories. Good ideas do pop up on cgn ;)

easy
07-30-2012, 4:33 PM
locksmith in the making

Future burglar in the making.

Toyman321
07-30-2012, 8:32 PM
a 3yr old can remember a 4 digit sequence???

Yup, when we did the half-way-though-the-year testing for out daughters preschool she could remember a sequence 8 characters long after being told it once.

Zartan
07-31-2012, 6:32 AM
aaand discussed

Fishslayer
07-31-2012, 9:03 AM
a 3yr old can remember a 4 digit sequence???

Why not? You can teach a dog to perform more complicated tasks...

Kodemonkey
07-31-2012, 9:14 AM
Yup, when we did the half-way-though-the-year testing for out daughters preschool she could remember a sequence 8 characters long after being told it once.

Our kids were taught at 4 years old to memorize our phone number in case they get lost. That was taught by their school, so it's not beyond a 4 year old.

My son (at 4) can operate an ipad, launch programs and beat "where's my water" and play chess. Kids are like a sponge, you just have to be careful what you expose them to.

Supertac916
07-31-2012, 10:52 AM
I keep the vast majority of my guns in my larger high quality Liberty and Cannon safes. There's no prying those open with a coat hanger or crow bar for that matter and the combo is a 6 digit numerical code and they lock for five minutes after 3 failed attempts.

Kids are highly intelligent and smarter than we think. I have a 3 and 5 year old boys and do have a Gun Vault in my nightstand. However, I don't keep a gun in there, unless I'm sleeping right next to it. Those little boxes are not "Safes", but will prevent immediate access.

My boys also like guns and I'm teaching them how I was taught growing up. They aren't afraid of guns, but I emphasis safety and let them know if they want to learn how to shoot they need to understand the dangers and responsibility. (Yes, we could speak to our children and they do comprehend much of what we tell them)

I allow them to handle my firearms in my presence and teach them not to play with them, point them at anyone, and that they are always loaded. My little guy will tell me that the gun isn't loaded because he saw me take the ammunition out of my gun. At first he was perplexed and I had to tell him that the gun is still dangerous, even after I take the bullets out and should be treated that way.

I test my kids regularly because I carry everyday and so far I haven't had a brain fart and left a loaded gun laying around for my kids to access. However, for their safety I will sometimes unload a gun and pull the firing pin out. Leave it on the counter, floor, couch, bathroom sink. Anywhere I frequently go and could leave a gun accidently (Again, I have never done it, but I like being proactive). My kids at first would get me to ask if they could look at it and for me to unload it. These days they don't even look twice. My 5 year old will lecture me about how I'm a bad Dad for leaving a gun out and my 3 year old will come get me and let me know.

Just my .02 cents because I don't want my kids to be scared or curious about guns. It doesn't replace the fact that I need to be responsible and prevent them from gaining access, but it's an additional safety measure for my kids. They will always be inquisitive and get into everything. They are freaking smart!!

unusedusername
07-31-2012, 2:20 PM
Would the same principle apply to a full size gun safe with an electronic lock on the front? Have you tried one of those?

I know this would not work on my residential security container. I have one made by Visalia Safes.

The keypad sends a signal akin to a phone tone down the wire when the button is pressed and the signal is decided by a box inside the door.

The keypad is replaceable without opening the container, and replacing it does not reset the code.

I know for sure though that less secure designs exist. If replacing the keypad resets the combination then you know you have a less secure design.