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View Full Version : Voting and gun rights.


nicki
07-27-2012, 2:50 PM
Gun rights are a constitutional right.

Voting technically is a privilege and immunity of citizenship. Yes we have the 14,15th amendment and government laws granting voting rights. When the government grants a "right", to me it is a "privilege" since what the government gives, the government can take.

The point is IMHO, the right to bear arms is a right that the government recognizes, the right to vote is a right the government grants, as such, the right to bear arms IMHO is on a "higher" order than the "right" to vote.

The 2nd amendment ends with "this right shall not be infringed". We don't have a constitutional amendment saying the "right" to vote shall not be infringed.

If I am required to show my DL and go through a background check before I can buy a gun, what is the issue with voter verification.

When Iraq and Afganistan had their elections, voters were required to put their thumb print and use a blue ink that wouldn't just wipe off.

When I go to my Gym, I don't carry an ID anymore, I just type in my cellphone number and they scan my thumbprint.

We scan our thumbs to get our driver's licenses, why can't we do this for voting?

Often we discuss our need to do outreach, well here is an issue where most of the public probably would agree with us across the political spectrum.

Integrity of the honesty of elections IMHO is a substantial public interest and this is a minor burden on voting.

Hell, such a system could allow for same day registration and voting.

As far as absentee ballots, a person could send in a copy of their DL and submit a thumbprint with their ballot.

In the event someone can't make a thumb print, I am sure something could be worked out. How many people are missing their right thumbs.

I have a gut feeling that there is enough voter fraud going on that elections are swayed just enough so that it looks like we are having an election when in reality, political machines pick their people.

Now I realize certain people may not want to run to vote if they have something like warrants on them if this system was functional just like I don't think people would necessarily want to run to gun shops and buy guys if a background check was run before they could buy the gun and that might lead certain people yelling that this system could suppress voter participation of certain groups of the population, the only thing I can say to this is SO.

We have to look for ways to start to get the public to realize that there is no order of rights, they all are equally important.

Equating gun rights with voting rights beefs up our argument that
GUN RIGHTS are CIVIL RIGHTS.

Nicki

Coded-Dude
07-27-2012, 2:56 PM
voting is a privilege?

Legasat
07-27-2012, 2:57 PM
We should have to show some form of ID to vote. That would certainly limit the number of dead people voting, much-less those that are not entitled to vote.

askrobert
07-27-2012, 3:08 PM
I agree with you completly. the system isn't working the way it should. on a side note. today i made an appointment for my son physicle and i was asked if my son is of Hispanic desent or nonhispanic decent. I ask her why even ask a question like that and she said they are required by the federal goverment to ask this now. I said leave it blank I refuse to play this game. Our country is really going down hill

crackerman
07-27-2012, 3:11 PM
I'm all for showing ID to vote (even in CA you can get a free ID card if you are indigent).

But voting is a right, kinda the whole reason of the 14th, 15th, 19th, and 26th amendments plus a ****load of other laws are for.

Why do think voting is a privilege?

dfletcher
07-27-2012, 3:34 PM
voting is a privilege?

I think the closest we can come to saying it's a right is the Article 1 Section 2 reference to Representatives being "chosen by the people" - although that's a pretty thin reference.

There is no "right to vote" specifically stated in the Constitution although there are references to a right to vote not being infringed based on race or sex in (IIRC) or imposition of a poll tax in federal elections - in 4 amendments total I think. In Gore v Bush SCOTUS stated something along the lines that there is no right to vote in Presidential elections but that states must be afford equal treatment. Not to be flippant, but with respect to the amendments what they say, I think, is that everyone has the same voting runs as the well off, middle aged White guys - whatever they may be. But the amendments themself don't define the right, only expand it.

Keep in mind - we do not directly vote for President, until about 1915 we did not elect Senators by direct vote.

There are many "right to vote references" in law but I think most are based on equal treatment, due process.

DVSmith
07-27-2012, 3:51 PM
Gun rights are a constitutional right.

Voting is a privilege.

I think the DOJ would not agree with your assessment that voting is a "privilege".

http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/vot/intro/intro_b.php

The Voting Rights Act, adopted initially in 1965 and extended in 1970, 1975, and 1982, is generally considered the most successful piece of civil rights legislation ever adopted by the United States Congress. The Act codifies and effectuates the 15th Amendment's permanent guarantee that, throughout the nation, no person shall be denied the right to vote on account of race or color. In addition, the Act contains several special provisions that impose even more stringent requirements in certain jurisdictions throughout the country.

AMENDMENT XV

SECTION 1.

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

SECTION 2.

The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

ETA: 15th Amendment language

dfletcher
07-27-2012, 8:00 PM
^^
Both those amendments reference discrimination. Neither of them establish a a right to vote. They only say that what the state allows for one it must allow for others.

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20001213.html

"In its landmark ruling in Reynolds v. Sims (issued in 1964, the same year that the Twenty-Fourth Amendment was adopted), the Court held that substantial deviation from the principle of one-person-one-vote in state legislative apportionment violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Since then, the right to vote has been repeatedly characterized by the Court as "fundamental." Yet the Court's cases have also demonstrated that the right to vote is an odd sort of fundamental right — one that can only be afforded on a strictly equal basis, but that need not be afforded at all."

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html

"The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States unless and until the state legislature chooses a statewide election as the means to implement its power to appoint members of the Electoral College. This is the source for the statement in McPherson v. Blacker, that the State legislature’s power to select the manner for appointing electors is plenary; it may, if it so chooses, select the electors itself, which indeed was the manner used by State legislatures in several States for many years after the Framing of our Constitution. History has now favored the voter, and in each of the several States the citizens themselves vote for Presidential electors. When the state legislature vests the right to vote for President in its people, the right to vote as the legislature has prescribed is fundamental; and one source of its fundamental nature lies in the equal weight accorded to each vote and the equal dignity owed to each voter. The State, of course, after granting the franchise in the special context of Article II, can take back the power to appoint electors."

ClarenceBoddicker
07-27-2012, 9:36 PM
Wrong on both.

The NRA sided with the gun grabbers in 1968 & decided that the 2A does not apply to Felons, or those who like to collect foreign military surplus weapons.

Voting is not a privilege, it's a duty for all citizens.

The felon "issue" is just a red herring that was originally used to keep poor blacks in the south from voting or having a means to kill KKK members (many whom were off duty LEOs, businessmen & politicians) in self defense.

It amazes me that so many on here are embracing the technology that will be used by the Illuminati/NWO to enslave US citizens. Will you be 1st in line to get the Federal government recommended (later mandated) ID chips implanted to speed up your wait time in airports?

nicki
07-28-2012, 11:38 AM
Guys,

My point here is that the "Politically correct" view voting rights as so absolute that we can't ask for IDs to verify voter eligibility and that we have to have ballots in multi-languages.

Last I heard, Cali has at least 31 recognized languages for voting. Pretty soon we will have more recognized languages than Baskin Robbins has flavors of Ice Cream.

I am not for suppressing people's right to vote, what I am for is getting gun rights recognized as at least equal to voting rights.

As far as voting rights, most rational people will agree that integrity of the voting system is critical for survival of our democratic process.

Yeah, we are supposed to be a "Republic", but like it or not, our "Republic" was murdered in 1913 and we have devolved into a "Socialist Democracy".

We have insta-check in most states with gun purchases, why can't we have insta check on voting. People could still have secret ballots.

I have a gut feeling that if we clean up voting, many of our opponents might have a hard time getting elected which is why I brought this up in the first place.

Clarence made a comment that he feels voting is a "duty" and to a certain extent I agree with him.

My concerns are that many "voters" are grossly ignorant on the candidates they vote for, in many cases they actually vote for people who are against their core values because they haven't researched their candidates.

Many people for candidates who look or sound good, people who promise "hope and change".

Personally I would rather those type of voters not bother to vote because everyone of them undoes the vote of someone who does take the time to study candidates and make informed votes.

Nicki

gixxnrocket
07-28-2012, 1:50 PM
I agree there ought to be a system in place to secure integrity of the voting system but I shutter at the idea of govenment fingerprinting, retena scanning, rf ID, etc.

"My gun is my ID"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWtGqoC12cM

lol I kid, but really how hard is it to atleast swipe a drivers license to only allow one legal vote per us citizen?

donw
07-28-2012, 2:18 PM
voting is a privilege?

check history:

in ancient greece, voting was a law...every citizen HAD to vote.