PDA

View Full Version : Front Sight's Communicator Offer: Political Effect?


guntrust
07-27-2012, 2:23 PM
What would be the political effect if everyone on Calguns took advantage of the latest offer from Front Sight?

Offer described here (http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sight.com/2012/07/27/front-sights-answer-to-aurora-co-massacre/).

vantec08
07-27-2012, 4:03 PM
"I have the answer to the insanity of Gun Free Zones and I am putting my money where my mouth is by paying the legal fees of the first victim to file a very specific lawsuit against the Cinemark Movie Theater chain that denied responsible citizens their right to carry a concealed weapon to defend themselves against the murderous rampage of a deranged killer.

I am also providing a free Two Day Defensive Handgun Course ($1,000 value) to EVERY AMERICAN who subscribes to my free Gun Training Reports and agrees to forward this e-mail to everyone they know."


This guy heard the old saying "faith without works is dead"

AeroEngi
07-27-2012, 4:13 PM
I think it sounds way too good to be true.

Tripper
07-27-2012, 4:49 PM
--excerpt
I am also providing a free Two Day Defensive Handgun Course ($1,000 value) to EVERY AMERICAN who subscribes to my free Gun Training Reports and agrees to forward this e-mail to everyone they know.

If you are already a subscriber to my Gun Training Reports, but not yet a Lifetime Member, I am giving you a new Front Sight Communicator Lifetime Membership (over $10,000 lifetime value) for only $49 dollars that will allow you to attend my Two Day Defensive Handgun, Two Day Tactical Shotgun, and Two Day Practical Rifle Courses as many times as you wish for the rest of your life, simply for agreeing to forward selected e-mails I send you to everyone you know.

If you are already a Front Sight Lifetime Member I am GIVING you a Front Sight Communicator Lifetime Membership to sell or transfer to anyone you know simply for agreeing to forward my e-mails to everyone you know!

BigFatGuy
07-27-2012, 4:49 PM
it's a good gamble. He looks like a hero, and he knows the chance of a lawsuit being filed is small. On the other hand, if it's actually filed, he will have a hand in what might be a landmark case in this country and he'll be able to do no wrong from then on.

His website looks like he's selling late-night male enhancement products, but he's a damn savvy businessman, and you'd be hard pressed to say he doesn't support the gun rights cause.

OleCuss
07-27-2012, 7:07 PM
It feels a bit off to me.

Asking people to agree to be spammers? It makes me want to ask everyone if they are a Front Sight lifetime member or some such before I give them my e-mail.

MP301
07-27-2012, 10:56 PM
A lot has been said, good and bad , about Piazza. But I have never been disappointed with my involvement with Front Sight from the word go.

I am already a lifetime member, so i just got my free 2 day TBD lifetime membership that i am giving to my Niece. My Nephew is already a lifetime member and now he has his free 2 day TBD membership to give to whomever he wants. Its that easy.

I also subscribe to his line of thinking...that one of the things we need is to change the image of gun owners. I think its working.

The training is great, its fun and Nevada aint that far away. If anyone has any doubts, send me a pm and ill answer any questions you have from my experience with Piazza and front Sight, good and bad.

In all honesty, anyone who doesnt take advantage here is...well...not all that bright! Seriously, no big investment here and there are a crap load of people on Calguns who have been to FS that can tell you just like me what the score is.

MP301
07-27-2012, 11:02 PM
Oh yeah, in the event that one of the victims actually does file a lawsuit due to the theater disarming, but not protecting its patrons, that would be very interesting.

Is it time for one of those type of lawsuits? Maybe. The Venue isnt all that bad either. Colorado is a more gun friendly state that most. Would it be a legitimte lawsuit? Your Dam skippy it would be...all day long!

Gun sales went up something like 37 percent than previous weeks right after the shooting.

OleCuss
07-28-2012, 4:48 AM
I like the idea of the lawsuit, but I'm not at all sure it would be viable.

I'm really having trouble seeing where the theater company legally put the victims at risk.

Yes, they apparently ban firearms in the theater.

But no one forces the individual to enter the theater in order to see the movie. So the individual willingly accepts the risk of entering a theater sans handgun.

And if I am someone who ordinarily carries a firearm (and would presumably have been carrying in the theater if carry were not banned) then it is also clear that I would have evaluated the risk of entering that theater without my customary firearm. I willingly assumed that risk.

Net effect is that entry was voluntary and that the risk of entering without a firearm was willingly assumed.

As a non-lawyer, I think Piazza is proposing a sort of nuisance lawsuit. No realistic hope of winning.

That said, I have no problem with him doing it even though I think it is more a publicity stunt than a serious attempt to advance the RKBA by winning such a suit.

After all, if every time a public or workplace shooting occurred in a location in which firearms are forbidden - such a lawsuit is filed and vigorously pursued, it may prove too costly to maintain the prohibition on the carrying of firearms.

So I don't consider it a serious effort at a win (note that he is not even bothering to suggest it needs to be someone who would ordinarily be carrying), but I suspect it may advance our RKBA anyway.

The danger is that when they lose someone might decide to appeal it. On appeal you could establish precedent which says that there is no liability to forbidding firearms - and I wouldn't like that.

But keep it a nuisance suit and I've no real problem with it.

Oldbud
07-28-2012, 10:03 AM
...
I also subscribe to his line of thinking.....
....anyone who doesnt take advantage here is...well...not all that bright!...So if I decide to not subscribe to his line of thinking and not take advantage of his offer, I'm a dim light bulb.

I don't freely spam my friends with email just because someone wants me to or in exchange of some offer, I guess then I can call myself "stupid".

MP301
07-28-2012, 2:56 PM
So if I decide to not subscribe to his line of thinking and not take advantage of his offer, I'm a dim light bulb.

I don't freely spam my friends with email just because someone wants me to or in exchange of some offer, I guess then I can call myself "stupid".

It's not all that hard to get your 3 friends permission to send them emails. Lighten up Francis!

BigDogatPlay
07-28-2012, 5:52 PM
It's a second tier mass marketing effort that costs Piazza little. If he gets a one percent redemption on the services offered he's still going to be ahead of the game and he continues to spread his brand.

Not something I'd subscribe to, I don't have an overwhelming urge to go to Front Sight, but some will.

wildhawker
07-28-2012, 6:46 PM
I will never, ever engage - personally or professionally - in any dealings with Ignatius Piazza, nor can I recommend anyone else do so.

Does anyone remember how he almost f****d us with the idiotic carry license ballot prop?

-Brandon

OleCuss
07-28-2012, 6:58 PM
I will never, ever engage - personally or professionally - in any dealings with Ignatius Piazza, nor can I recommend anyone else do so.

Does anyone remember how he almost f****d us with the idiotic carry license ballot prop?

-Brandon

Oh, I remember alright. It was horrifyingly bad.

But if we don't get a carry case with a reasonable result from SCOTUS by summer of 2013 (or was it 2014?) isn't there a commitment to work with him on a rational initiative?

I think even a rational initiative is a bad idea, but sometimes due to circumstances you have to accept the bad to avoid the disastrous.

I hope I'm remembering wrong.

But at least you understand why I've not accepted Piazza's offer. I'd have to give him my address and e-mail and I'm not too eager to do that.

(PLus I can get good training much closer to home - including from at least one LEO who has actually been in a couple of shoots.)

wildhawker
07-28-2012, 7:22 PM
There's a commitment that we would run a prop that we write.

That's it.

Let me restate: I will never work with Piazza.

-Brandon

OleCuss
07-28-2012, 8:06 PM
Thank you. You've made me happier!

guntrust
07-28-2012, 8:42 PM
The way some folks talk on this Board, it's as if we still have a 5-4 majority on SCOTUS. Very foolish.

Also, it's apparent to anyone who has actually been to Front Sight that its detractors here have no clue about the fine training they are missing.

Back to my original question as OP, I think if Calgunners could get behind this and at least share the web version of the emails on social nets (no spam issues there) this could have a very positive effect politically, no?

wildhawker
07-28-2012, 8:55 PM
Have you looked at the voter reg stats at SOS lately?

OleCuss
07-28-2012, 9:08 PM
We probably do have a 5-4 majority for the RKBA on SCOTUS. If you are concerned about Roberts, I can understand that concern. However, I think that what Roberts did was not a significant shift in his judicial philosophy.

And I'm not disrespecting what Front Sight does. I don't doubt they have fine training there.

But the flip side is that holding Front Sight out as the mecca for firearms training might not be all that supportable, either. I know several former LEOs who are superb shots. One is a military veteran and really does understand combat. Another has been in several shoot-outs and has had extensive training within a police department as well as having gone to train with some of the best in the field.

In addition to what Brandon says about Piazza - and other concerns about various business dealings. . .

I'm pretty sure I know where Piazza got a fair bit of his marketing training. I got a very good look at what was involved and I saw some pretty unethical stuff being endorsed. I had one of the folk who is much beloved in the group associated with the primary training guru who should have known better yelling at me because I didn't buy into the idiotic stuff he was trying to push.

The techniques used can be valuable, but there was insufficient concern for ethics.

I decided I'd limit my association with anyone involved with that group and have never regretted that decision.

I have no problem with people who go to FrontSight, but it is very unlikely I will join them there. Too many very competent alternatives close to home.

wildhawker
07-29-2012, 1:31 PM
Exactly.

-Brandon

Legasat
07-29-2012, 1:40 PM
I remember this guy. Very good at self-promotion. I have never taken any of his classes, so I cannot comment on the actual training, but I am "careful" about people like this.

ramathorn
07-29-2012, 2:15 PM
I am a lifetime member. They do really good instruction, its a nice well organized place to go to. I've only been once so far but hope to return sooner than later.

As far as signing up for his newsletter, he will email the sh*t out of you. Tons of emails. That is my big complaint with FS, way too much self-promotion and once in a lifetime offers. I removed my email from their list, couldn't handle it.