View Full Version : Benelli mag extension
Wraith
06-06-2007, 2:00 PM
I picked up a Benelli M1. It holds five rounds. Is it legal to add an extension to get a couple of more rounds?
Thanks.
It's been discussed a _few_ times before, and the short answer is no.
Search on the forum and google for and read up on 18 USC 922(r)
Wraith
06-06-2007, 2:46 PM
Ah, that figures. Thank you.
Exiledviking
06-06-2007, 3:02 PM
Does that only apply if the shotgun has a pistolgrip?
That extension would make it hold less than 10 rounds( 7 rounds), is
that not legal?
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=24489&highlight=mag+extension&page=2
Wraith
06-06-2007, 3:18 PM
What's really frustrating is that the extensions are so easy to find. I know Choate makes 'em.
1919A4
06-06-2007, 3:51 PM
I just seen one at a shop that had the 2 round extension on it. I think it depends when the benelli was made? Not sure. I was told if its a H&K marked M1 then having a extension on it is ok since most of them where made before the end of 1994 and came with the extensions on them. Dont hold me to this info though.
Solidmch
06-06-2007, 3:51 PM
It's been discussed a _few_ times before, and the short answer is no.
Search on the forum and google for and read up on 18 USC 922(r)
The short answer is no> But the long answer is yes.There are enough parts out there for some money you can make it compliant to 922r. Go on Benelli forms they will have the answers you are looking for. They also have lists and letters from DOJ.
1919A4
06-06-2007, 4:08 PM
I just called the department of justice to see what they have to say. The gent told me that the current writen laws says its perfectly legal to have a plus 2 extension on any semi auto shotgun, Even with a pistol grip stock.
He said the only thing you can not do is add a shroud or a collapsible stock. Which I dont think you can do to the benelli. He said you can go up to 10 rounds without breaking any laws with a semi auto with a pistol grip stock. He even told me he added one to his. So, may not mean much to most of you but thats the answer I got and the guy thanked me for checking first. I also called a shop in cambell who said it was fine also. Go figure. I think I will get it in writing just for the heck of it.
EDITED TO ADD:
I am in no way saying this info is correct. Just the answers I got today.
Wraith
06-06-2007, 4:23 PM
Well, hell, thanks for that, 1919A4. :cool:
1919A4
06-06-2007, 4:46 PM
uh, I was just trying to help. I am in the same boat. I just picked up a benelli M1 myself. In my above post I edited to added:
EDITED TO ADD:
I am in no way saying this info is correct. Just the answers I got today.
Because of all the DOJ haters on this board. Most say that the phone techs that answer the phone dont know the laws. Thats why I called a local gun shop, but got the same answer. I didnt want to get beat up for giving out wrong info. I was just sharing what I was told today from two different people.
Wraith
06-06-2007, 5:01 PM
I was just sharing what I was told today from two different people.
Don't sweat it, I ain't taking it as the word of Christ. But, again, thank you for the effort.
There is no California law prohibiting you from adding a mag tube extension to hold up to 10 rounds. Benelli's up until about 2 or 3 years ago came with an extension to hold 7 rounds in the tube.
69Mach1
06-06-2007, 6:58 PM
This is not a CA DOJ problem, it's a Federal importation law. You need to contact BATF.
Yep, the problem with Benelli and factory mag extensions is not the number of rounds or CA. It has to do with the federal firearms importation law dealing with "sporting arms" and the total number of "imported" vs "domestic" parts. Please look up 922r as a previous poster mentioned.
randy
06-07-2007, 12:29 AM
When did this 922r come into effect? New Benelli's are still being sold today with mag extensions.
http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/specialPurpose.tpl
I'm pretty sure that the BATF wouldn't let Benelli stay in business if it were breaking this 922r law.
69Mach1
06-07-2007, 12:53 AM
When did this 922r come into effect? New Benelli's are still being sold today with mag extensions.
http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/specialPurpose.tpl
I'm pretty sure that the BATF wouldn't let Benelli stay in business if it were breaking this 922r law.
That link does not show any Benelli's with the 4 shot mag extentions. Look for HK Benelli Super 90 (also Tactical) models with serial numbers that indicate date of manufacture prior to the ban. That way you can have both the pistol grip stock and 4 shot mag extention.
Benelli M1 Super 90
M1507xx, imported 12/01/92, pre-ban
M17142x, imported 1993, pre-ban
M1978xx, imported 08/94, pre-ban
M19833x, imported 09/19/94, post-ban*
M200050, imported 09/05/94, pre-ban*
M200100, imported 09/05/94, pre-ban*
M200111, imported 09/05/94, pre-ban*
M202200, imported 09/30/94, post-ban
M205200, imported 10/04/94, post-ban
M201xxx, imported 10/26/94, post-ban
M210025, imported 01/1995, post-ban
M215900, imported 03/1995, post-ban
Benelli M3
M19199x, imported 05/14/94, pre-ban
M1967xx, imported 08/94, pre-ban
M20595x, imported 11/04/94, post-ban
Not 100% sure of the accuracy of that list. Call HK to confirm.
allenst65
06-07-2007, 1:30 AM
This is a lot like the "don't ask, don't tell" rules for gays in the military. Adding a tube would seem to be illegal only for those unwise enough to call, or worse, write the ATF asking for an opinion on legality.
Everyone keeps quoting 922(r) as though this directly outlines the restricted shotgun items. 922(r) only says it is illegal to assemble from imported parts a semiauto shotgun which is identical to one which is prohibited from importation under 925(d)(3).
Looking for the definition within 925(d)(3) ...
"925(d) The Attorney General shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition (3) is of a type that does NOT fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 AND is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled"
The capitalized NOT and AND terms in 925(d)(3) above are my emphasis. The definition of a firearm in 5845(a) is really defining a 'prohibited' firearm, hence it is allowable under 925(d)(3) if it does "NOT" meet 5845(a). The "AND" clause related to 'generally recognized' sporting purposes will be addressed shortly.
"5845(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;"
So, looking at the written definitions, there is nothing contained which specifically addresses pistol grips or magazine extensions. There were provisions for these elements as part of the '94 crime bill changes ( 922(a)(30)(D) ), however these have dropped from the current federal regulations with the expiration in 2004.
As written, if your shotgun does NOT meet 5845(a) criteria, then it IS allowed for importation under 925(d)(3). Any shotgun thus allowed by 925(d)(3) can be duplicated through assembled imported parts and is not prohibited by 922(r). In other words, unless your Benelli has a barrel less than 18" or an overall length of 26" or less, then it does not meet 5845(a) and it is not disallowed under 925(d)(3). As long as your Benelli has a barrel longer than 18" and an overall length of 26" or more, then adding a magazine tube should have no effect on the 925(d)(3) status, and it should NOT be prohibited under 922(r).
Again I am trying to read logically from the written law. The only area left for contention could be the clause calling out "AND is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes". The problem with focusing on this clause as the only remaining restriction is two-fold. 1) it is not written as an 'OR' clause, but is placed in addition (AND) to the exclusionary 5845(a) provision, and 2) no where have I been able to find any legally published and publicly available definition, list or criteria from the AG which specifically calls out any Benelli models or configurations as 'non-sporting'.
This sporting clause seems added as a feel good measure to provide a rational basis for why some firearms could be restricted, however without legal definition of what is or is not sporting, it becomes a difficult area to prosecute. Again, leave it as a don't ask issue and continue with the understanding there is no ready, legal definition in print.
In a more practical sense, if you call Benelli, they will say they are not allowed to sell the parts or import said configurations due to ATF restrictions. We have to remember though that their sponsored shooters Tom Knapp and Tim Bradley ARE using the magazine extensions as they continue to promote the Benelli brand. And this past weekend at Raahauges, the Benelli booth had a M4 with, yes you guessed it, the +2 magazine extension in place. As I've asked before, if Benelli is so aware of the illegality of such shotgun configurations, then why do they continue to willingly place themselves in such a dangerous and potentially costly position with their actions?
We've seen many firms (Benelli, Turners, OLL vendors refusing CA sales) fold to ATF or DOJ requests quickly under the guise they are complying with legitimate legal restrictions. Keep in mind, however, it's generally not the civilian buyers who get all the goodies or have the buying power. There are large govt, military and police contracts at hand, and firms like FN or Beretta/Benelli are likely just weighing the financial impact of trying to prove themselves right (in a legal matter that is only related to civilian sales no less) against the fear of other business or financial repercussions they could face. Dealings with big business and the govt can be an ugly thing, and unfortunately in the end, the civilian consumer is left with the burden of trying to decipher and comply with these legal gray areas with no written clarification, statements or policies issued by Benelli or retailers.
1919A4
06-07-2007, 5:27 AM
Heres most of my serial number. I called Benelli. All they could tell me is mine was made in 1994. They said it did come with a pistol grip stock but could not confirm it had the plus 4 extension on it.. :90:
M1906XX
That link does not show any Benelli's with the 4 shot mag extentions. Look for HK Benelli Super 90 (also Tactical) models with serial numbers that indicate date of manufacture prior to the ban. That way you can have both the pistol grip stock and 4 shot mag extention.
Benelli M1 Super 90
M1507xx, imported 12/01/92, pre-ban
M17142x, imported 1993, pre-ban
M1978xx, imported 08/94, pre-ban
M19833x, imported 09/19/94, post-ban*
M200050, imported 09/05/94, pre-ban*
M200100, imported 09/05/94, pre-ban*
M200111, imported 09/05/94, pre-ban*
M202200, imported 09/30/94, post-ban
M205200, imported 10/04/94, post-ban
M201xxx, imported 10/26/94, post-ban
M210025, imported 01/1995, post-ban
M215900, imported 03/1995, post-ban
Benelli M3
M19199x, imported 05/14/94, pre-ban
M1967xx, imported 08/94, pre-ban
M20595x, imported 11/04/94, post-ban
Not 100% sure of the accuracy of that list. Call HK to confirm.
Technical Ted
06-07-2007, 8:15 AM
When did this 922r come into effect? New Benelli's are still being sold today with mag extensions.
http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/specialPurpose.tpl
I'm pretty sure that the BATF wouldn't let Benelli stay in business if it were breaking this 922r law.
Read the actual text of the US Code, Title 18, Section 922, Subsection r and you'll see it doesn't apply to firearms legally imported into the US by a licensed manufacturer or importer with the approval of the United States Attorney General.
922r has to do with firearms built from imported parts that otherwise would be prohibited from importation due to their non-sporting nature.
Since Benelli USA was able to import thousands of complete, italian made, M1 Super 90 Tactical shotguns into the US for over a decade (Even throughout the existence of the Federal AWB), they must have had approval from the US AG.
By removing an Italian made 2 rd magazine extension and replacing it with an Italian made 4 rd magazine extension, you are not altering the parts count on an Italian made shotgun that's been imported under a license to do so.
922r does not apply.
Read the actual text of the US Code, Title 18, Section 922, Subsection r and you'll see it doesn't apply to firearms legally imported into the US by a licensed manufacturer or importer with the approval of the United States Attorney General.
922r has to do with firearms built from imported parts that otherwise would be prohibited from importation due to their non-sporting nature.
Since Benelli USA was able to import thousands of complete, italian made, M1 Super 90 Tactical shotguns into the US for over a decade (Even throughout the existence of the Federal AWB), they must have had approval from the US AG.
By removing an Italian made 2 rd magazine extension and replacing it with an Italian made 4 rd magazine extension, you are not altering the parts count on an Italian made shotgun that's been imported under a license to do so.
922r does not apply.
I agree, if the shotgun was imported with a capacity > 5, you're good to go, since it must have been approved for importation in that configuration. It might be hard to verify if it was imported like that or if the extension was added after passing through customs.
If it was imported in a sporting configuration with a capacity of 5 (or less), I know of at least two letters from the ATF saying it would be a 922(r) violation to add a tube (unless you replace enough parts). Sure, ATF might be like our DOJ and not know wtf they're doing, but the letters are there, and for me that's enough to not want to add an extension to a new Benelli, YMMV.
In terms of serial numbers, you need to look for 1989, not 1994, since the import ban had nothing to do with the AW ban of -94.
So if you want to play it safe you have three options:
1. Get a pre-89 shotgun
2. Get a new shotgun and replace enough parts to avoid triggering 922(r)
3. Get a post-89 shotgun and verify with Benelli that it was actually imported in a "non-sporting" configuration.
69Mach1
06-07-2007, 9:18 AM
This has got to be the most confusing topic ever. I admit I mixed up my ban dates. Those ATF letters you're talking about, what was the date on them? It's true if it happened during the 1994-2004 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine
Something happening in 1989 regarding the Benelli's, but I can't find anything on it. I know in 89 certain firearms were prohibited from importation regardless of 922r. 1989-90 was when 922r took affect, but nothing on Benelli's or semi-auto shotguns.
This has got to be the most confusing topic ever. I admit I mixed up my ban dates. Those ATF letters you're talking about, what was the date on them? It's true if it happened during the 1994-2004 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine
Something happening in 1989 regarding the Benelli's, but I can't find anything on it. I know in 89 certain firearms were prohibited from importation regardless of 922r. 1989-90 was when 922r took affect, but nothing on Benelli's or semi-auto shotguns.
I dont have them here, but if I remember correctly one is -05 and one is -06. The import ban in -89 was for all non-sporting firearms, rifles as well as shotguns.
I know that some Benellis were imported with >5 tubes after -89, so the Benellis must have gone from "sporting" to "non-sporting" for some reason.
A very personal guess is that it was the introduction/adoption of the M4 that led to this, but this is only speculation from my side.
Hunter
06-07-2007, 9:36 AM
...1989-90 was when 922r took affect, but nothing on Benelli's or semi-auto shotguns.
922(r) went into law on 11-30-1990
Also 922(r) prohibits the act of building a non-importable gun. It doesn't prohibit one owning one that was built by other parties and bought that way. The person who built it and sold it would be in violation.
I bought M3 Folders with full 7 round mags in 1993 as well as PG M1s. It was spring (I believe with the May shipments) 1994 when Benelli/HK stopped shipping guns with the mag extensions installed. You could still buy them at the same time though and install them, as late as Aug 1994.
12gaugederringer
06-07-2007, 9:56 AM
+1to allen65st's response (saved me from typing). To anyone looking at the BATF letters floating arround they merely state certain Benellis are subject to 922r but never say why...That's because they're not. I haven't seen a letter that answer's the follow up question, "Why is said shotgun subject to 922r?"
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